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Horrible Notebook Gaming Performance

W

winhqwebmstr

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2001
Messages
873
I just bought a new notebook with a Radeon Mobility 9000 after seeing the decent performance it gets in games. Today I get the laptop, install RTCW, and get framerates under 20 at the lowest possible graphical settings. I've tried all different driver versions, including the omega drivers. While I'm playing, I see no hard drive activity that would indicate heavy swapping. The notebook's onboard 256 megs has been upgraded to 768 with a 512 upgrade. I've set the shared memory in the bios to 128 megs.

I've seen people getting around 3,000 3dmarks with the same notebook. I would love to have enough power to just run games even at low settings. While I'm playing a game, I can stare at a wall and my FPS will shoot up to 90 but when I turn around it drops down to 7. I'd appreciate any helpful advice on how to correct this, thanks. :)

HP R3202US / Compaq R3000
2.8GHz Celeron
768 MB DDR
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000

Freshly installed Windows XP professional.
 
Its the Radeon 9000. Sorry to say, but its slow.

The minimum for decent gaming IMO is the Radeon 9600, or if you want to go with Nvidia the GO5700.

The mobility 9000, 9200, Nvidia GO5200 and anything earlier are just too slow for any serious gaming.
 
ZenOps said:
Its the Radeon 9000. Sorry to say, but its slow.

The minimum for decent gaming IMO is the Radeon 9600, or if you want to go with Nvidia the GO5700.

The mobility 9000, 9200, Nvidia GO5200 and anything earlier are just too slow for any serious gaming.
Click to expand...

or even basic gaming....

all those cards really are crap
 
sorry, but a celeron/9000 will not be fast by any means.. however, have you gotten the newest drivers ect? i know RTCW was made to run on REALLY low machines
 
What makes it worse is that it sounds like the 9000 IGP (shared memory) Ugh, yet another two notches slower than a "true" mobility 9000.

With a non-IGP 9000 I'd think you might be happy with Warcraft 3 and maybe a few games at 640x480.
 
I don't know... my Mobility Radeon 9000 64MB does decently in games.... obviously not doom 3.
 
Hehe sorry bro but you wasted your money you should of got one with atleast the new connect to upgrade mobile graphics.... should of got one with a 9700 min or new 9800 mobility.... should of researched before you wasted your money.
 
SuperTurtle said:
My 9000 mobile plays games great, even Doom 3 isn't too bad on it.
Click to expand...
Yes, but he doesn't HAVE a mobile 9000, he said he had to set the memory it uses in the BIOS. That means it's an integrated graphics solution.

It's using the integrated memory that is killing performance. And it really will KILL performance.

There are 3 ways of running a Mobility 9000:
1) Extended memory only (the card has its own memory)
2) Extended + shared (the card uses its own memory, plus shares some system memory)
3) Shared only (card shares system memory exclusively)

You obviously don't have option 1, or your FPS would be fine.

If you are using option 2, what you need to do is find out how much memory the chip has and make sure you are using NO system memory. Using ANY system memory will cause performance to tank.

If your system is an option 3 laptop....well, you are pretty much screwed. Lowest details and 640x480 for you. Should be fine in that case, actually - after all, my wife's laptop is an integrated Radeon 320M (roughly Radeon 7000 in performance) with shared memory and I can get most games playing on it. Just don't expect stellar performance out of it.

You really can't get a 'good deal' on a gaming laptop, sadly - this is very much a 'you get what you pay for' section of the market. And you will pay at least 2x-3x what you'd pay for a desktop PC of the same capability.
 
It must be the shared memory that's doing it.

My 1.6 P-M + 9000 64mb runs RTCW-ET just fine.
 
That is what you get for getting a Mobility 9000, not that great on performance, especially if it uses system memory.....
 
Well, it probably doesn't help that you have a CELERON, they aren't exactly good for gaming/
 
shared mem == radeon IGP != 9000 == slow.

Or if there is an IGP with the 9000, I didn't know about it.
 
Well, I have no idea if this is even remotly related, but I have a p4-M and a mobile 9000 with standalone memory, and I can run games like q3a and I played Jedi Academy and it was okay. Just thought I would chime in. It must be the shared memory.
 
The best thing to do in this case, if you have the option is to return the laptop if games are very important to you. If poor performance is a dealbreaker, it's got to go back.

Just because it's a laptop doesn't mean the performance has to totally suck ass. Granted, a celeron and a shared memory architecture video card isn't the best, but there are models that get at least average performance without paying an arm and a leg.

Examine them closely and find one with a built-in video card with it's own memory. This is very important. If the video card does nothing but pull from your main memory pool there is going to be a huge drain on the system because of all the activity that has to go to run games. The 9600 or 5700 in my mind is the minimum I would accept as a gaming card.

Keep in mind that you aren't going to get desktop performance and resolutions anywhere near the $1000 mark. But if you are ok with that, then thats all right. You should be able to find something around that mark that give you at least 30fps at 640. But for the most part, an RTS will be your best option on the toppy.

The other posters are right tho. The 9000 IGP isn't really a gaming card per se, and the celeron doesn't help. Might look for an AXP system if thats an option in your price range.

good luck,

T



And you other posters who did nothing but tear this guy down or say "it's a laptop", you guys are fucking asshats. God forbid somebody get a decent response to a decent question. Don't answer if you just want to be a dick.
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
It's STILL a laptop.....
Click to expand...

And you're still a nub for pointing out the obvious? The point of this post is that he didn't realize he got a shitty version of the 9000 pro. Even laptops can use these applications called... erm... games? yea. Let him enjoy his laptop gaming at school, dont hate.

~Adam
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
It's STILL a laptop.....
Click to expand...

You know the mobile 9800 is hella fast right? Easily as fast as a desktop 9800 Pro. I don't see a valid reason in saying, "it's a laptop..."
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
It's STILL a laptop.....
Click to expand...

And my laptop will outperform many decent desktops.

Your post is also useless and founded in poor thinking and analysis.
 
CleanSlate said:
Even laptops can use these applications called... erm... games? yea.
Click to expand...
mine cannot... it has an nvidia geforce mx 420 go with its shared mem maxed out at 16mb... and it is crap on crackers.
 
w00t69 said:
You know the mobile 9800 is hella fast right? Easily as fast as a desktop 9800 Pro.
Click to expand...
i have yet to see a laptop sporting one of these. where are you getting your info?
 
Hmm, I have a 2.8 gig P4, 1 GIG of RAM, and GeF 5600 Go w/64 meg and a 17" widescreen display in my laptop and it will play Doom 3 just fine in Low Quality mode. Yeah maybe I should have waited and got the 128meg version, but it does work just fine. The only real difference between my lap and a desktop is the Hard drive speed, which If I want I could change that as well. I also use it to capture and edit video with Adobe Premiere Pro. There are certainly portable solutions out there that will give you a useable or good gaming performance, but like all things, it's a question of money :) (mine was 1700.00 when I bought it about 1 year ago)
 
By design, laptops are not for gaming. It's about sacrificing speed, expandability, easy maintenance and economy, in exchange for compactness, portability, durability and powersaving. In principle, the laptop will always prioritize power management above anything else, that means underclocked processors, underclocked video cards, lower harddisk RPM, slower cd-drive access. PC's will always be faster than a laptop with a similar CPU rating, simply because the laptop would underclock itself to save power. How long would a laptop last if you were to override the safeties and run it full throttle?

If your laptop can outperform a desktop with similar specs, i can't imagine how much power it's using. That's breaking one of the primary principles the laptop was designed on. Of course, like all things, these design limitations can be offset by throwing money at it.

And once again...

It's a laptop... :p



@winhqwebmstr
Sorry man. Don't know enough about laptops to give performance tips, but there are a lot of other games you can try. MMORPG's are on the rise, i'm subscribed to one and i KNOW it's the first thing i'll install when i get a laptop ^_^ I've got a small collection of games here, if you PM me what genre you like and what games run decently on your setup (so i can compare), i might be able to recommend a few, some of them might be a few years old but they're good =)
 
starhawk said:
i have yet to see a laptop sporting one of these. where are you getting your info?
Click to expand...

Jesus man, [H]Ocp did a REVIEW, for god's sake.

Dell XPS or 9100 or 9200.
 
Sly said:
By design, laptops are not for gaming. It's about sacrificing speed, expandability, easy maintenance and economy, in exchange for compactness, portability, durability and powersaving. In principle, the laptop will always prioritize power management above anything else, that means underclocked processors, underclocked video cards, lower harddisk RPM, slower cd-drive access. PC's will always be faster than a laptop with a similar CPU rating, simply because the laptop would underclock itself to save power. How long would a laptop last if you were to override the safeties and run it full throttle?

If your laptop can outperform a desktop with similar specs, i can't imagine how much power it's using. That's breaking one of the primary principles the laptop was designed on. Of course, like all things, these design limitations can be offset by throwing money at it.

And once again...

It's a laptop... :p



@winhqwebmstr
Sorry man. Don't know enough about laptops to give performance tips, but there are a lot of other games you can try. MMORPG's are on the rise, i'm subscribed to one and i KNOW it's the first thing i'll install when i get a laptop ^_^ I've got a small collection of games here, if you PM me what genre you like and what games run decently on your setup (so i can compare), i might be able to recommend a few, some of them might be a few years old but they're good =)
Click to expand...


And you're wrong, thanks. :) Laptops are not what you say they are, and I'm surprised that anyone in the tech field would still think that way. I know that you're not stupid, just poorly informed. At least, I ~hope~ it's that way. There are TONS of laptops designed for gaming, with desktop (or high end mobile cpus). Centrino is plenty powerful for games, so is the Desktop P4, and so is the mobile (or DTR) Athlon64.

The CD drives read at the same speed :rolleyes: I don't know where you got that from, but it's the same damn hardware.

They'll underclock themselves? Sometimes, on battery, if you have a mobile chip, and tell it to. The desktop cpu's don't, they run at full speed. And so can the mobiles. I can tell my mobile Athlon64 3200+ to run at full speed all the time if I want, and thanks, but an athlon64 3200+ is plenty powerful for games.

How long will it last at full throttle? Forever. Or as long as a normal system would :rolleyes: It's perfectly designed for that. I run mine at 100% cpu for 12+ hours a day. It's at about 48c, IIRC, and the fans run.

Design specs? Maybe for 5 years ago, but there have been desktop replacement laptops, designed to be just as powerful as a full system, but more portable, for a long time. This is nothing new. And they're NOT expensive. Hell. mine was $1250, and that included a Radeon 9600 that will OC to Pro speeds or higher.

So "It's a laptop" is short-sighted bullshits, and you all should know better. If you don't, it's time to educate yourself and get out of this thread, since you're not only failing to help, but you're spreading false information.

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/inspn_xps?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
http://pctorque.com/8790.php
Hell, some come with HARDWARE RAID!


http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjYx

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjYxLDM=
If that isn't good enough performance, I don't know what is

Thanks for playing, guys, but you need to spend some time reading. Laptops aren't just for business anymore.
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
Once again. It's STILL a LAPTOP...
Click to expand...

And what is that supposed to mean? A LAPTOP can outperform most desktops, so yes, thanks for pointing out that is has the potential to be a top-performing gaming platform. :rolleyes:
 
lopoetve said:
And what is that supposed to mean? A LAPTOP can outperform most desktops, so yes, thanks for pointing out that is has the potential to be a top-performing gaming platform. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...



So a laptop can outprerform most desktop's....hmmm maybe eMachines..

Sorry inless you want a REAL GAMING laptop. your not going to spend $1000 dollars for one. it will be more like $1700 to $2500 dollars.
and even the 1700 dollar ones can barely beat MOST desktop's.
now when the 6800GO's come out. then we can talk. But still comes at a HIGH PRICE..

i deal with alot of laptop's here at work. and the highest one i have seen is one with a 9800 in it. and well that thing sucks compared to my work machine which has a 5900XT in it.
but overall gaming on the RUN is great. Also MOST laptop's do not out perform desktop's

And i am sorry you think this way that most laptop's can beat desktop's...

MOST LAPTOP'S are not top-performing gaming platform's....laptop' s are for mobility..unlike desktop's which are stationary and also have alot more upgradeablity than laptop's do...and yes there are those laptop's that can upgrade there vid card and what not.
but the cost of one of these laptop's is almost 2x the price of a gaming machine..so you can't really justify the cost for one of these laptop's just for gaming...buy a SFF shuttle machine. they can outpreform laptop's and are great for moblie gaming to...and are half the cost..
 
It's about sacrificing speed, expandability, easy maintenance and economy, in exchange for compactness, portability, durability and powersaving.
Click to expand...

Which part was i wrong?


Yeah, All CD-Drives read the same speed, that's what the 'NNx' rating is for, but that only counts for when the drive is actually reading. Mobile drives tend to power down sooner than their desktop counterparts, motor isn't very powerful either so spin up time is longer. This means seek time is sacrificed to keep the drive motor from eating too much power. Atleast that's what happens to my boss's laptop, he was better off copying the whole thing to his harddrive.

I didn't mean that the hardware wouldn't last as long. I did state that the mobiles were meant for durability. The main difference (and selling point) of the laptop over the PC is it's portability and low power consumption. If it can't sustain that high a performance unplugged, it loses big points in the laptop category. Supposing you were to unplug that laptop of yours and play Doom3 on it on the road (Like it's meant to). Overriding the powermanagement so you can play it at full speed like a desktop. How long before it shuts down?


The XPS was cool. Nice read, but not enough info. It got benchmarked like a regular PC and showed it's performance but didn't say anything about the other features it should have as a laptop. I didn't get anything on the specs that would matter. Except that it weighs 14 pounds, maybe he's just exagerrating, i can't believe a mobile would weigh that much. I looked at the picture closer, what are those grills on either side of the keyboard? I hope those aren't active cooling (One fan each?), that's gonna give one heck of a power drain. I thought laptops only have one fanexhaust on the side, those make it atleast three.

I had to do some googling to get more info on the specs. Dell Inspiron XPS right? The one's i can find only have 9700 installed tho. Pros: Same performance as a desktop PC. Cons: Weight, 10 pounds (This is easier to believe), Priced between $3000.00 to $3500. Battery Life 1.5 hours (OMFG!). This is the latest laptop? This looks more like a very expensive desktop with a battery that's packed into a suitcase. o_O

With laptops it looks like a balance between portability, performance, and cost (In order of importance). Performance went up, but portability and cost got shot to hell. It seems the definition of a laptop changed over the years. When they first came out, laptops were foreseen to become powerful PC's that you can carry anywhere, let you work on the plane during a 5 hour flights, instant networking with no hardware (Blue tooth?). If the XPS is a representation of laptops today. We may have just taken one giant step... sideways.


@[RIP]Zeus
Whoa. Only 2x?! Your laptops are cheap! It's easily 3x over here! 4x atleast if you build your own PC!
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
So a laptop can outprerform most desktop's....hmmm maybe eMachines..

Sorry inless you want a REAL GAMING laptop. your not going to spend $1000 dollars for one. it will be more like $1700 to $2500 dollars.
and even the 1700 dollar ones can barely beat MOST desktop's.
now when the 6800GO's come out. then we can talk. But still comes at a HIGH PRICE..

i deal with alot of laptop's here at work. and the highest one i have seen is one with a 9800 in it. and well that thing sucks compared to my work machine which has a 5900XT in it.
but overall gaming on the RUN is great. Also MOST laptop's do not out perform desktop's

And i am sorry you think this way that most laptop's can beat desktop's...

MOST LAPTOP'S are not top-performing gaming platform's....laptop' s are for mobility..unlike desktop's which are stationary and also have alot more upgradeablity than laptop's do...and yes there are those laptop's that can upgrade there vid card and what not.
but the cost of one of these laptop's is almost 2x the price of a gaming machine..so you can't really justify the cost for one of these laptop's just for gaming...buy a SFF shuttle machine. they can outpreform laptop's and are great for moblie gaming to...and are half the cost..
Click to expand...


Um, dude, get a clue: the mobile 9800 is based off of the X800. It's a whole generation ahead of that 5900XT. It's plenty powerful for gaming, and so is the mobile 9700 and 9600.

I never said most DO, I said most CAN, and they're more than capable of taking on most desktop systems. Not a custom built, tweaked home system, but I never said that. And price was never a considered issue in here really, especially with some of the other lower cost solutions (Dell 9100, eMachines M6805, etc) that make that point invalid. Oh, and if you had done any research, you'd know that eMachines is not only one of the top manufacturers today (not related to the old company except in name), but also make some of the best low-cost GAMING laptops around.

And spending 2500? BS. 1700 even? Still BS.
$1300 -> Athlon64 3200+, 15.4" Widescreen LCD, Radeon 9600 w. 64mb dedicated ram, 512mb, etc. That's a plenty powerful gaming laptop, and it's affordable. With rebates, it can be had at $1100.

I'm sory that you're incapable of reading and realizing that there are laptops for every field and desire out there, be it mobility or power. Upgradability was never an issue, don't bring it up. Your cost argument is pointless, I've already pointed out many affordable gaming laptops.

And I'd like to see you open up a shuttle system on an airplane or take it with you out of town :rolleyes: It's hardly a mobile solution with no power or screen on the go.

Laptops are more than capable of being powerful gaming platforms. Sorry that you can't see what the rest of the world sees. Enjoy living in your hole, I'll enjoy taking my games with me in a single package.

I remember now why I've had you on ignore for this long, and why so many other people do. Have a nice life.
 
HEY EVERYONE. The point of this thread was to help this guy with his lappy not FLAME EACH OTHER. Hey man, yea it's a celeron 2.8 and a 9000 IGP, but you can get a 7200 rpm drive, and consign yourself to some lower settings. Also, upgrading to a full gig of ram would help since you are using onboard resources already. Will it run Doom 3 or the latest games? Probably not, but it is still a nice lappy. If you are still unhappy, I would look to sell it and after some research for your particular needs and budget, upgrade to a better lappy. You could keep the 7200 rpm drive and use it in the new lappy and put the old drive back in the lappy before selling it. Basically no harm no foul. Try it and see if this works. Just my two cents. Oh, and everyone stay [H]ard... :cool: :cool: :cool:
 
Sly said:
Which part was i wrong?


Yeah, All CD-Drives read the same speed, that's what the 'NNx' rating is for, but that only counts for when the drive is actually reading. Mobile drives tend to power down sooner than their desktop counterparts, motor isn't very powerful either so spin up time is longer. This means seek time is sacrificed to keep the drive motor from eating too much power. Atleast that's what happens to my boss's laptop, he was better off copying the whole thing to his harddrive.

I didn't mean that the hardware wouldn't last as long. I did state that the mobiles were meant for durability. The main difference (and selling point) of the laptop over the PC is it's portability and low power consumption. If it can't sustain that high a performance unplugged, it loses big points in the laptop category. Supposing you were to unplug that laptop of yours and play Doom3 on it on the road (Like it's meant to). Overriding the powermanagement so you can play it at full speed like a desktop. How long before it shuts down?


The XPS was cool. Nice read, but not enough info. It got benchmarked like a regular PC and showed it's performance but didn't say anything about the other features it should have as a laptop. I didn't get anything on the specs that would matter. Except that it weighs 14 pounds, maybe he's just exagerrating, i can't believe a mobile would weigh that much. I looked at the picture closer, what are those grills on either side of the keyboard? I hope those aren't active cooling (One fan each?), that's gonna give one heck of a power drain. I thought laptops only have one fanexhaust on the side, those make it atleast three.

I had to do some googling to get more info on the specs. Dell Inspiron XPS right? The one's i can find only have 9700 installed tho. Pros: Same performance as a desktop PC. Cons: Weight, 10 pounds (This is easier to believe), Priced between $3000.00 to $3500. Battery Life 1.5 hours (OMFG!). This is the latest laptop? This looks more like a very expensive desktop with a battery that's packed into a suitcase. o_O

With laptops it looks like a balance between portability, performance, and cost (In order of importance). Performance went up, but portability and cost got shot to hell. It seems the definition of a laptop changed over the years. When they first came out, laptops were foreseen to become powerful PC's that you can carry anywhere, let you work on the plane during a 5 hour flights, instant networking with no hardware (Blue tooth?). If the XPS is a representation of laptops today. We may have just taken one giant step... sideways.


@[RIP]Zeus
Whoa. Only 2x?! Your laptops are cheap! It's easily 3x over here! 4x atleast if you build your own PC!
Click to expand...


1. So tell it not to. That's a limitation of the user, not the CD-rom drive.

2. that's the main selling point of ONE kind of laptop. You think people with the Sager 8790 care? It weighs a ton, comes with hardware RAID, 2 cd drives, etc... Portability and power consumption are not selling points for me or many others. Anything is more portable than a pc, and a plug deals with power consumption. How long at full power? 'Bout an hour and a half. More than enough for me.

3. You're missing a whole set of designs and it show. Please, read and learn. Large desktop-replacement laptops have been around forever, and are EXTREMELY popular. Lots of power, affordable, and portable (more so than a desktop). Battery life and size are not an issue on them.

4. That's the point. It's a desktop-replacement portable. What's so hard to get :confused: People buy them all the time. dell.com, they have the 9800 pro. And what other features "should" it have? People that want the XPS don't CARE about those features. They bought an XPS for that reason. And active cooling?!? What hole have you been in? Find a laptop WITHOUT active cooling, I dare you!

5. Not true. That's for one kind of laptop, again. There are other kinds, and different kinds of people that want laptops for different reasons. I don't care how much it weighs or how big it is, so long as it's got a fast CPU, nice video card, big screen, and fits in my backpack and gets 2 hrs of life.

It's not that they've gone sideways, it's just that there are choices that you all have not looked at or even realized that they existed. DTR laptops are a big deal and are top sellers. Portable desktops with built in screens is all they really are, and they sell like hot-cakes.

EDIT: And what part were you wrong? You don't sacrifice speed, and you don't have to sacrifice economy. And portability/powersaving are relative. Some don't care about that at all.
 
operaman said:
HEY EVERYONE. The point of this thread was to help this guy with his lappy not FLAME EACH OTHER. Hey man, yea it's a celeron 2.8 and a 9000 IGP, but you can get a 7200 rpm drive, and consign yourself to some lower settings. Also, upgrading to a full gig of ram would help since you are using onboard resources already. Will it run Doom 3 or the latest games? Probably not, but it is still a nice lappy. If you are still unhappy, I would look to sell it and after some research for your particular needs and budget, upgrade to a better lappy. You could keep the 7200 rpm drive and use it in the new lappy and put the old drive back in the lappy before selling it. Basically no harm no foul. Try it and see if this works. Just my two cents. Oh, and everyone stay [H]ard...
Click to expand...

It's not flaming, it's a spirited argument! :p :cool:

And the IGP is pretty useless for games, I'd ditch it no matter what. If you want gaming, start at the eMachines M6805 and work from there, or the Dell 600M, 9200, 9100, or 5160.
 
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