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Home network - cat5 problems

L

leetlamer

n00b
Joined
Mar 18, 2011
Messages
14
I found out that some of the phone jacks in my home are actually cat5, and I want to use them for ethernet for HTPC media center extenders.

I have my router in the office, and there's a cat5 cable that goes from the office to the garage, where all the other cat5 cables go. I bought some wall jacks and keystones from monoprice and the punchdown tool and whatnot, and got that working.

So I bought a gigabit switch (D-Link DSG-1005G) to go in the garage, but it didn't work. It didn't even detect anything. I thought maybe I had done the punchdown or crimping wrong, but if I put two laptops on either ends of the long cat5 runs, and do an iperf test, I get solid 100Mbps both ways (duplexed).

I was disappointed that I couldn't get gigabit speeds, but I suppose that only works for short cat5 cables.

So I figured maybe the switch was a problem, so I got a Netgear 10/100 switch (FS105) and that seemed to work. It would actually detect a computer on the other end of the long run. But when I did an iperf test, plugging a laptop directly into the switch, then another laptop at the end of the long run to the office, I did get full 100Mbps one way, but not duplexed. The other way was really slow.

And when I plug another room into the switch (ethernet over two long runs, with switch in the middle), I get terrible speeds, like 50Kbps. It gets really sketchy.

Do I need a better switch, or is there too much attenuation/crosstalk on the runs?

If I just do iperf test between two laptops going directly over just 1 long run, I get full 100Mbps duplexed. It isn't too much attenuation for the laptops, how come the switch fails?
 
hey,
the sitch is def not your problem. it has to be how you punched the wall connectors even if the cable was plain cat5 and not cat5e it wouldnt provent you from seeing the other computers on the network.
but because your getting a send and not receive you may have gotten a drywall screw sent through the darn thing...

You could try ringing out the lines using a multimeter,, just simply twist brown and brown-white together and do a continuity test on the other end of brown & brown white.... follow suite with all remaining colors.

if all of the wires ring out... you need to make sure you followed the correct straight cable color codes. (T-568A or T-568B) i usually use T-568B and never have problems. you also need to make sure you follow the same color code on both ends of the wall jacks.. YOU CANT DO T-568A at one end and B on the other....

hope this helps...
 
I wired T-568A throughout everything.

What I don't understand is why I can get full speed when I have laptops on either end, but when I add a switch and a 1ft cat6 patch cable, suddenly it gets slower.

Surely that can't be a problem with my wiring?

Also why would one switch detect the computers and another wouldn't?
 
leetlamer said:
I wired T-568A throughout everything.

What I don't understand is why I can get full speed when I have laptops on either end, but when I add a switch and a 1ft cat6 patch cable, suddenly it gets slower.

Surely that can't be a problem with my wiring?

Also why would one switch detect the computers and another wouldn't?
Click to expand...

have you verified all your pins on all your cabling ?
 
If it was orignally wired as a phone you will need to map out all the wires to see how they wired in the walls. I had a similar issue on a house I had built. It was a new community and I was the first house to get the CAT5 option. Although that doesn't make any excuse the electrician wired it as a phone line and not a network line. Which meant that they were all tied into each other and not discreet Point A to Point B wirings that could then be tied together with a switch/router.

I had the electrician look at it again, but he didn't seem to understand why there was an issue. So I took upon myself to fix it. I took each individual twisted pair and attached a small 9V battery and then went around the house checking the same twisted pair looking for 9V signal. I was able to make a map of where all the wires were leading.

I then looked at my options. There was 1 CAT5 wire per receptical. That meant 4 twisted pairs for 8 wires total. I broke it out to 2 sets 2 twisted pairs and was able to have 2 ports using one CAT5 wire. This is against CAT5 spec, but it did work wonderfully. Though with 2 pairs you are limited to 100mbs, which I usually saw 9 Megabytes per second consistanly (which is what you would expect).

So the lesson here is that yes absolutly the wiring can be bad. Common sense would tell you that an electrician should know to look up the difference between CAT3 (phone) and CAT5 networking. It could be hooked up as phone, and CAT5 was what they had lieing around figuring you would never look behind the panel.

When you plug the third device in you might be getting interference hence the slow speed. This is all best guess though. The only way to know for sure would be to map the wiring.
 
westrock2000 said:
If it was orignally wired as a phone you will need to map out all the wires to see how they wired in the walls. I had a similar issue on a house I had built. It was a new community and I was the first house to get the CAT5 option. Although that doesn't make any excuse the electrician wired it as a phone line and not a network line. Which meant that they were all tied into each other and not discreet Point A to Point B wirings that could then be tied together with a switch/router.

I had the electrician look at it again, but he didn't seem to understand why there was an issue. So I took upon myself to fix it. I took each individual twisted pair and attached a small 9V battery and then went around the house checking the same twisted pair looking for 9V signal. I was able to make a map of where all the wires were leading.

I then looked at my options. There was 1 CAT5 wire per receptical. That meant 4 twisted pairs for 8 wires total. I broke it out to 2 sets 2 twisted pairs and was able to have 2 ports using one CAT5 wire. This is against CAT5 spec, but it did work wonderfully. Though with 2 pairs you are limited to 100mbs, which I usually saw 9 Megabytes per second consistanly (which is what you would expect).

So the lesson here is that yes absolutly the wiring can be bad. Common sense would tell you that an electrician should know to look up the difference between CAT3 (phone) and CAT5 networking. It could be hooked up as phone, and CAT5 was what they had lieing around figuring you would never look behind the panel.

When you plug the third device in you might be getting interference hence the slow speed. This is all best guess though. The only way to know for sure would be to map the wiring.
Click to expand...


Electricians don't know shit about cat5 ca6 or hdmi or speaker cables, they all do it beause its a cash grab, HEY LOOK i can run all your cat5 or speaker wires for you, because im certified FAIL!

Ive seen so many god dam electricians say they can do it and it's ALWAYS fucked up. They either run the cat5-6 along the ac wires in the house or the speaker cables beside the ac wires or they staple and crimp the cables or just don't give a shit about their job and how it's SUPPOSE To be. Lesson, NEVER trust them!
 
dashpuppy said:
have you verified all your pins on all your cabling ?
Click to expand...

I believe so. They are all wired the same. Also each cat5 individually works fine with laptops on either end, but when I bring a switch into the picture, and chained cat5s, it goes bork.

westrock2000 said:
If it was orignally wired as a phone you will need to map out all the wires to see how they wired in the walls. I had a similar issue on a house I had built. It was a new community and I was the first house to get the CAT5 option. Although that doesn't make any excuse the electrician wired it as a phone line and not a network line. Which meant that they were all tied into each other and not discreet Point A to Point B wirings that could then be tied together with a switch/router.

I had the electrician look at it again, but he didn't seem to understand why there was an issue. So I took upon myself to fix it. I took each individual twisted pair and attached a small 9V battery and then went around the house checking the same twisted pair looking for 9V signal. I was able to make a map of where all the wires were leading.

I then looked at my options. There was 1 CAT5 wire per receptical. That meant 4 twisted pairs for 8 wires total. I broke it out to 2 sets 2 twisted pairs and was able to have 2 ports using one CAT5 wire. This is against CAT5 spec, but it did work wonderfully. Though with 2 pairs you are limited to 100mbs, which I usually saw 9 Megabytes per second consistanly (which is what you would expect).

So the lesson here is that yes absolutly the wiring can be bad. Common sense would tell you that an electrician should know to look up the difference between CAT3 (phone) and CAT5 networking. It could be hooked up as phone, and CAT5 was what they had lieing around figuring you would never look behind the panel.

When you plug the third device in you might be getting interference hence the slow speed. This is all best guess though. The only way to know for sure would be to map the wiring.
Click to expand...

Most of the outlets in the house were wired as regular, chained phone lines (regular phone cable, 3 twisted pairs). But in a few rooms they were cat5.

I know that the cat5 lines are wired point A to point B, they aren't wired together. When I was checking where each cable went, I used a voltmeter and it was only a 1 to 1 connection.
 
dashpuppy said:
Electricians don't know shit about cat5 ca6 or hdmi or speaker cables, they all do it beause its a cash grab, HEY LOOK i can run all your cat5 or speaker wires for you, because im certified FAIL!

Ive seen so many god dam electricians say they can do it and it's ALWAYS fucked up. They either run the cat5-6 along the ac wires in the house or the speaker cables beside the ac wires or they staple and crimp the cables or just don't give a shit about their job and how it's SUPPOSE To be. Lesson, NEVER trust them!
Click to expand...

Yeah, a lot of electricians will do things they really don't have experience in.. and they'll justify it that you'd not do any better yourself otherwise, or that your needs are those of a basic nature, not a [H]ard power user.

If you set out to get some data cabling done and done right, hire an electrician with prior experience with data cabling and references. Check the references. When you get the electrician onsite for the estimate, explain that you're looking for a professional-grade installation of data cabling for a high performance network, and want to ensure the infrastructure is installed such that it is reasonably protected from the effects of crosstalk, EMI and RFI, and that the cable is not strained to prevent the wires from getting damaged. (not exceeding the cable's bend radius.)

Just expect to pay for the added care and expertise you're demanding or employing. And if you're providing cable to use, provide something quality, such as bare copper STP or bare copper plenum cable.
 
wait.... you hook a laptop without a switch at either end?
if that is so it sounds like you made a crossover cable and not a straight cable...
straight cables dont work when u go directly from comp to comp.

you need straight cables when u have a switch involved.

T-568A color code is for crossover cables only! that is why the switch is not working see image (http://www.incentre.net/content/view/75/2/)

you need to use the T-568B in order for this to work properly with a switch.

let us know if this solved ur issue!
 
dingles said:
wait.... you hook a laptop without a switch at either end?
if that is so it sounds like you made a crossover cable and not a straight cable...
straight cables dont work when u go directly from comp to comp.

you need straight cables when u have a switch involved.

T-568A color code is for crossover cables only! that is why the switch is not working see image (http://www.incentre.net/content/view/75/2/)

you need to use the T-568B in order for this to work properly with a switch.

let us know if this solved ur issue!
Click to expand...

Most NICs can do Auto-MDIX these days.

I would just use the cat-5 cable as a pull string and run new cat6 cable to be sure. Cable prices are pretty low these days, and that way you know it is done correctly.

edit: and as long as both ends are the same, it does not really matter what colors you use. The computer can't tell what color wires you used. The different pairs have different twist rates to help alleviate crosstalk within the group of pairs, but if you pick any colors and make the ends the same it should work, just not as good as it could.
 
dingles said:
wait.... you hook a laptop without a switch at either end?
if that is so it sounds like you made a crossover cable and not a straight cable...
straight cables dont work when u go directly from comp to comp.

you need straight cables when u have a switch involved.

T-568A color code is for crossover cables only! that is why the switch is not working see image (http://www.incentre.net/content/view/75/2/)

you need to use the T-568B in order for this to work properly with a switch.

let us know if this solved ur issue!
Click to expand...

No, I my cables are straight cables. You can connect two computers with just a patch cable and they'll auto detect that its not a crossover cable.
 
Interestingly enough, I had another switch that arrived (D-link 8 port gigabit switch), and that switch worked in the garage.

I guess the other switches were too wimpy to handle my noisy cat5 runs? Well it works at full speed.
 
"Electricians don't know shit about cat5 ca6 or hdmi or speaker cables, they all do it beause its a cash grab, HEY LOOK i can run all your cat5 or speaker wires for you, because im certified FAIL!"

Quoted for 2000 percent truth. 99 percent of them can't even run the wire correctly. Once a year I am lucky to work on a job that was not totally bastardized by sparky.

Remember, it's wire so the only person who is allowed to touch it is an electrician :mad:
 
All the electricians in my area here use T568A ends for some odd reason. I always do B if I can help it. I also see the electricians doing one end A and one end B. They can be all over the map sometimes.
 
T568A is typically used for residential and T568B used for commercial, however, it does not matter which one you use, as long as they are the same on both ends.
I've also seen electricians and IT guys make up their own color code...more about that another time!
 
jeffmoss26 said:
T568A is typically used for residential and T568B used for commercial, however, it does not matter which one you use, as long as they are the same on both ends.
I've also seen electricians and IT guys make up their own color code...more about that another time!
Click to expand...

I believe that they are those two standards because only those two work properly. You start to run into issues with your own colour code because of the twisting of the wire and cross talk and whatnot. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
No, it has to do with splitting pairs.
(Transmit is one pair and receive is one pair (for 10 Base T)

I've seen people do things like this-
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
br bl wh/gn wh/bl or wh/or gn wh/br

Does not work too well :)
 
If you really want to see steam coming out of someone's ears, just ask my buddies over at the phone system forum. I've heard many stories where the electricians have run cat 3 (phone) and RG-6 coax to every office in a building. Why coax? The customer told them they were getting their internet from the cable company!
 
jeffmoss26 said:
If you really want to see steam coming out of someone's ears, just ask my buddies over at the phone system forum. I've heard many stories where the electricians have run cat 3 (phone) and RG-6 coax to every office in a building. Why coax? The customer told them they were getting their internet from the cable company!
Click to expand...

Get some vampire taps and some hubs and coax cards and you're ready to roll! No issue here. Thicknet FTMFW!
 
LOL, the sparky ran coax for cable TV with F connectors! Yeah that will work for internet!
 
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