Hold out for 10900k, grab 10700, or just go with a discounted 9900K?

lopoetve

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Gaming only system. Had decided to hold off till end of the year but the wife’s gaming system just started dying. Going to give her my 6700K and 1080, and build a new gaming machine. 1440P 140hz is the target; I can get the 9900K new for 430, the 10700 for 330, or wait for a 10900.
Not going amd as I’m about to build a new amd workstation; try to keep at least one Intel box around for various personal reasons.
Literally gaming only. And watching movies.

edit. Do want to overclock this time. May even go water at some point, but the power draw on 10900 does annoy me. 10700k is bloody $510 anywhere I can find it
 

Keljian

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It depends.

If you can get a 9900k with a gigabyte z390 aorus (ideally Ultra, if not pro Wifi) for equal to or less than the price of the equivalent 10700 with motherboard, I'd get that, otherwise I would go 10700. I wouldn't worry about the 10900k for gaming, the difference will be marginal at best.

Note the 9900k is vicious and requires some special attention for cooling.

However, this all depends on the cooler. What cooler are you going to run on it?
 
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lopoetve

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It depends.

If you can get a 9900k with a gigabyte z390 aorus (ideally Ultra, if not pro Wifi) for equal to or less than the price of the equivalent 10700 with motherboard, I'd get that, otherwise I would go 10700. I wouldn't worry about the 10900k for gaming, the difference will be marginal at best.

Note the 9900k is a vicious mistress that requires some special attention for cooling.

However, this all depends on the cooler. What cooler are you going to run on it?

either a top-end corsair AIO (lots of experience with them), Noctua NH-D15, or water if I feel like taking on a project. Most likely the best AIO or the D15 - I tend to prefer the AIOs. Going into a PC-O11, so plenty of room for the rad.

9900K with the Ultra is cheaper than the 10700 plus a Z470 board.

Thoughts on the cooling? I always spend on the case and the cooling - the cooling is always worth it, and the case makes life fun building it.
 

Keljian

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either a top-end corsair AIO (lots of experience with them), Noctua NH-D15, or water if I feel like taking on a project. Most likely the best AIO or the D15 - I tend to prefer the AIOs. Going into a PC-O11, so plenty of room for the rad.

9900K with the Ultra is cheaper than the 10700 plus a Z470 board.

Thoughts on the cooling? I always spend on the case and the cooling - the cooling is always worth it, and the case makes life fun building it.

The Gigabyte ultra board I swear by, it's a nice piece of kit.

I have a NH-D15 on my 9900k. Recently I've spent a lot of time looking into cooling options cause I am overclocking (5ghz, no avx offset) and I have hacked my case to try and make it quieter. I've even gone so far as to look at custom cooling and various exotic thermal pastes. Currently actual full load rendering temps on my machine are high 70s with 18C ambient. I've had to undervolt to make that happen. I recommend an undervolt even if you're not changing clock speed. I am not prepared to go with high 80s-mid 90s for general temps under load - hence sticking to 5ghz as a peak.

I would definitely make sure there is plenty of case airflow if you're going with a D15 or equivalent, modifying my (albeit cheap) case for airflow meant 15C degree drops in temperature. I am looking at replacing the case soon with something higher end and quieter. Currently looking at the Fractal design define S2 and R6, leaning towards the former for layout, but the latter has extra side sound dampening and the case sits behind a desk so windows are pointless for me.

If you are definitely not going to overclock or only shooting for a small overclock and want an AIO, then a 280mm based cooler would be fine, I'd recommend Corsair or NXZT as they have long warranties (5 & 6 years respectively) - I would not go a 2y warranty unit such as an arctic or thermaltake.

If you are planning a moderate overclock, I'd definitely consider a 360mm unit. Alphacool have a 420mm unit but the 2 year warranty worries me.

My chip can probably do 5.1/5.2ghz without too much drama, but I don't have the cooling in my case to do it. Heat output goes up substantially every 100mhz from 4.7ghz with AVX, stock AVX under all core load is 4.4ghz. The majority of chips will do 5.0ghz all cores, some will go above, in rare instances you may be able to hit higher (eg 5.3/5.4) with sufficient cooling. I got lucky with my cache and it will do 4.7ghz, many chips hit the wall at 4.5ghz.

Remember at 5ghz, 100mhz is 2.5% so the question becomes: is it worth spending 15% more power for that extra 2.5% processor performance?

The KF chips tend to overclock more than the K chips, but I have learned from experience it is always useful to have a backup graphics port.
 
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lopoetve

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The Gigabyte ultra board I swear by, it's a nice piece of kit.

I have a NH-D15 on my 9900k. Recently I've spent a lot of time looking into cooling options cause I am overclocking (5ghz, no avx offset) and I have hacked my case to try and make it quieter. I've even gone so far as to look at custom cooling and various exotic thermal pastes. Currently actual full load rendering temps are high 70s with 18C ambient. I've had to undervolt to make that happen. I recommend an undervolt even if you're not changing clock speed. I am not prepared to go with high 80s-mid 90s for general temps under load.

I would definitely make sure there is plenty of case airflow if you're going with a D15 or equivalent, modifying my (albeit cheap) case for airflow meant 15C degree drops in temperature. I am looking at replacing the case soon with something higher end and quieter. Currently looking at the Fractal design define S2 and R6, leaning towards the former for layout, but the latter has extra side sound dampening and the case sits behind a desk so windows are pointless for me.

If you are definitely not going to overclock or only shooting for a small overclock and want an AIO, then a 280mm based cooler would be fine, I'd recommend Corsair or NXZT as they have long warranties (5 & 6 years respectively) - I would not go a 2y warranty unit such as an arctic or thermaltake.

If you are planning a moderate overclock, I'd definitely consider a 360mm unit. Alphacool have a 420mm unit but the 2 year warranty worries me.

My chip can probably do 5.1/5.2ghz without too much drama, but I don't have the cooling in my case to do it. Heat output goes up substantially every 100mhz from 4.7ghz with AVX, stock AVX under all core load is 4.4ghz. The majority of chips will do 5.0ghz all cores, some will go above, you may be able to hit higher (eg 5.3/5.4) with sufficient cooling.

The KF chips tend to overclock more than the K chips, but I have learned from experience it is always useful to have a backup graphics port.

Only going to be gaming, so not too worried about all-core heat loads as much (I'm working on a final 3950 vs threadripper build for my workstation for that). Thanks!

edit: Damn, they're getting hot if stock puts you at 80c under load.
 

Keljian

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Only going to be gaming, so not too worried about all-core heat loads as much (I'm working on a final 3950 vs threadripper build for my workstation for that). Thanks!

edit: Damn, they're getting hot if stock puts you at 80c under load.

urm - no high 70s/80C under load is at 5ghz, all cores AVX, 1.272v. I can probably get that voltage down a bit with a static voltage, but I prefer adaptive. Stock under load under the d15 is sort of low 60s with the fans not working hard..

If all it's doing is gaming, then a 280 (heck a 240mm) will be fine, depending on the overclock. For a benchmark, my processor at 5ghz puts out about 40-60W under 6 core load under assassin's creed odyessy, and about the same under doom eternal, these seem to be the most intensive games I have.
 
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lopoetve

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urm - no high 70s/80C under load is at 5ghz, all cores AVX, 1.272v. Stock under load under the d15 is sort of low 60s with the fans not working hard..

If all it's doing is gaming, then a 280 (heck a 240mm) will be fine, depending on the overclock. For a benchmark, my processor at 5ghz puts out about 40-60W under 6 core load under assassin's creed odyessy, and about the same under doom eternal, these seem to be the most intensive games I have.

Sweet. Yeah, my idea of production load generally involves a couple of hundred cores. :).
 

Keljian

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edit: Damn, they're getting hot if stock puts you at 80c under load.

I see how the sentence may have been confusing. I meant to say you can hit 5.1/5.2/5.3 with AVX under the Noctua NH-D15, but you have to be prepared for 85-95C all core load temps. The chip won't throttle at that, but it's a bit too toasty for my liking.
 
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Niner21

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I went with a 9900K (got a great deal on one) and I'm using a Corsair AIO with an Z390 Aorus Ultra. My temps never go over 42C at stock speeds after gaming for a while. I didn't see the need to go with a 10900K due to the power draw and the marginal gains. I may overclock down the road, but can't give any advice on that at the moment.
 

jameslr

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I went with a 10700k, but had the same dilemma as you. I see you already made a choice and can't blame you for the decision. There really isn't much difference between the two CPUs so I don't think you'll regret it. I'm sure you'll skip LGA1200 altogether.
 

somebrains

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I’d focus more on how much a solid motherboard will cost vs look at #s from multiple trustworthy reviewers to see what they get on the extreme golden sample results.
Then I’d temper the build with some idea of what my $ should be giving me.
Next gpu release may continue the small gain trend, but the promise of shifting bottleneck up a sku is something to consider.
 

nealx01

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silicon lotto has 10700Ks for damn near retail rite now. and has for a few days. unless you have fast fingers 10900Ks or whatnot will be hard to comeby for a while. id get one of the 10700Ks and pick a motherboard carefully. (the MSI unify ATX is my safe recommendation) hard to go wrong with that. put the rest into GFX card cuz thats whats gonna matter the most for 1440p 144hz gaming anyway
 

SticKx911

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either a top-end corsair AIO (lots of experience with them), Noctua NH-D15, or water if I feel like taking on a project. Most likely the best AIO or the D15 - I tend to prefer the AIOs. Going into a PC-O11, so plenty of room for the rad.

9900K with the Ultra is cheaper than the 10700 plus a Z470 board.

Thoughts on the cooling? I always spend on the case and the cooling - the cooling is always worth it, and the case makes life fun building it.
Sorry if already covered, but if going gaming only, why not custom loop? Only for the sake of cooling the gpu too. My htpc is custom loop just so I don't have to hear fans spool up if breaking out anything 3d.

I'm one to find a case I like, and use it forever. Don't cheap out on the case or you'll always look at it in disdain. Lol. Don't overspend for the same reason.

Good luck with the build regardless!
 

lopoetve

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Sorry if already covered, but if going gaming only, why not custom loop? Only for the sake of cooling the gpu too. My htpc is custom loop just so I don't have to hear fans spool up if breaking out anything 3d.

I'm one to find a case I like, and use it forever. Don't cheap out on the case or you'll always look at it in disdain. Lol. Don't overspend for the same reason.

Good luck with the build regardless!

I haven’t built a water cooling system since 2006, and that one blew a pump after a year and destroyed a motherboard and GPU. I’d be learning from scratch again.
 

SticKx911

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I haven’t built a water cooling system since 2006, and that one blew a pump after a year and destroyed a motherboard and GPU. I’d be learning from scratch again.
It's not hard. It's become so mainstream, the hardest part is making up your mind between all the options. Lol. Starting from scratch is expensive, but long term, if money is a concern as it is to me, most parts are transferable. Cpu blocks, pumps, radiators, reservoirs and fittings can be used build after build. I used the same pump for well over 10 years on my main pc.

Gpu blocks are the odd ball. If you are looking top end, it's pricey, and blocks often devalue cards.

You won't get significantly better clocks or temps on the cpu anymore though. A good aio is going to match it. The gpu though will love it, and silent gaming is quite wonderful. :)
 

kirbyrj

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silicon lotto has 10700Ks for damn near retail rite now. and has for a few days. unless you have fast fingers 10900Ks or whatnot will be hard to comeby for a while. id get one of the 10700Ks and pick a motherboard carefully. (the MSI unify ATX is my safe recommendation) hard to go wrong with that. put the rest into GFX card cuz thats whats gonna matter the most for 1440p 144hz gaming anyway

That's because the 10700k's that are near retail are the bottom binned ones. You can give up 100Mhz and save yourself $100 by buying the 10700 (non-K) and extending the turbo boost, etc.
 

lopoetve

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It's not hard. It's become so mainstream, the hardest part is making up your mind between all the options. Lol. Starting from scratch is expensive, but long term, if money is a concern as it is to me, most parts are transferable. Cpu blocks, pumps, radiators, reservoirs and fittings can be used build after build. I used the same pump for well over 10 years on my main pc.

Gpu blocks are the odd ball. If you are looking top end, it's pricey, and blocks often devalue cards.

You won't get significantly better clocks or temps on the cpu anymore though. A good aio is going to match it. The gpu though will love it, and silent gaming is quite wonderful. :)
I’m SO bad at projects like that. Need me to build a data center? Done. Get rigid piping lined up? Uh, why is the bathroom in pieces? That’s what has me worried. And I’d go all out too 😂

I tend to go with high end AIB GPUs; silent storm idle, only run when gaming or transcoding, etc. and I do the same for case fans and the AIO; low power with a fast ramp. Is a bit annoying on my ryzen; they ramp a bit faster than I want, but it’s not bad.
 

lopoetve

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That's because the 10700k's that are near retail are the bottom binned ones. You can give up 100Mhz and save yourself $100 by buying the 10700 (non-K) and extending the turbo boost, etc.

That's a valid point too. One can still get a good overclock on the 10700 by doing that - just not the same level of control. That's an idea too.
 

kirbyrj

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That's a valid point too. One can still get a good overclock on the 10700 by doing that - just not the same level of control. That's an idea too.

I actually just got one in the mail today. I will let you know how it goes.
 

nealx01

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I actually just got one in the mail today. I will let you know how it goes.
Please do. I've bought bottom intel bins from SILlotto.. they can still do higher than their rated clock, they just need more voltage. If he hadn't said it was for gaming and didn't appear to care about K or non, I wouldnt have said anything.
4.9 vs 5.0ghz isn't gonna be the difference for 144hz 2k. The graphics card is.

Deffinetly share how it goes with the 10700👍
 
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Please do. I've bought bottom intel bins from SILlotto.. they can still do higher than their rated clock, they just need more voltage. If he hadn't said it was for gaming and didn't appear to care about K or non, I wouldnt have said anything.
4.9 vs 5.0ghz isn't gonna be the difference for 144hz 2k. The graphics card is.

Deffinetly share how it goes with the 10700👍

I'm at 144hz 2k with an 8700k and rarely is the CPU even taxed hard. That will change as we go into the next year with the new consoles but really I am waiting for the 30xx series as a real upgrade.
 

lopoetve

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I'm at 144hz 2k with an 8700k and rarely is the CPU even taxed hard. That will change as we go into the next year with the new consoles but really I am waiting for the 30xx series as a real upgrade.

this was my plan, just waiting to see if the wife VR system is dead.
 

kirbyrj

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Please do. I've bought bottom intel bins from SILlotto.. they can still do higher than their rated clock, they just need more voltage. If he hadn't said it was for gaming and didn't appear to care about K or non, I wouldnt have said anything.
4.9 vs 5.0ghz isn't gonna be the difference for 144hz 2k. The graphics card is.

Deffinetly share how it goes with the 10700👍

I get it with SL. They still have to run a business and warranty claims can be problematic, so they are probably conservative with their numbers.

So I set the PL1/PL2 to 225W. Tau is set to 128 seconds, but I don't think it will make a difference since PL1/PL2 are the same. I set the BCLK to 102 and my all core OC is ~4.7Ghz, single core ~4.9Ghz. This is all running on air on my old OG Scythe Fuma. IBT short run gets me around 75C and 160W power draw. I might give 103 a go later, and that should net me another ~50Mhz on both single and all core.

Honestly, for $335, I can't complain. I get 2C/4T more than the 10600k for slightly more money (much greater availability). I bought a Z490 board anyway for the flexibility, but with manufacturers allowing power limit adjustments on the B460 boards, you can get a lot of bang for the (Intel) buck.
 

Sodapopjones

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I get it with SL. They still have to run a business and warranty claims can be problematic, so they are probably conservative with their numbers.

So I set the PL1/PL2 to 225W. Tau is set to 128 seconds, but I don't think it will make a difference since PL1/PL2 are the same. I set the BCLK to 102 and my all core OC is ~4.7Ghz, single core ~4.9Ghz. This is all running on air on my old OG Scythe Fuma. IBT short run gets me around 75C and 160W power draw. I might give 103 a go later, and that should net me another ~50Mhz on both single and all core.

Honestly, for $335, I can't complain. I get 2C/4T more than the 10600k for slightly more money (much greater availability). I bought a Z490 board anyway for the flexibility, but with manufacturers allowing power limit adjustments on the B460 boards, you can get a lot of bang for the (Intel) buck.

Except the b460 board locks your ram down to shit at 2933... I'm on the fence of getting a 10700 and TUF z490 board... combo deal of $515 isn't bad, about $100 more than I would spend going to a 3900X...
 

lopoetve

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Rocket Lake is coming out in late 2020...

I’ll believe it when I see it. No offense intended, but intel is struggling right now. We might see it in 2021, but with everything this year I doubt 2020. Except maybe as a paper launch.
 

polonyc2

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I’ll believe it when I see it. No offense intended, but intel is struggling right now. We might see it in 2021, but with everything this year I doubt 2020. Except maybe as a paper launch.

Rocket Lake is not the 10nm chips...it's another 14nm refresh...but it'll have PCIe 4.0 support and is supposedly new architecture
 

kirbyrj

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Except the b460 board locks your ram down to shit at 2933... I'm on the fence of getting a 10700 and TUF z490 board... combo deal of $515 isn't bad, about $100 more than I would spend going to a 3900X...

Yeah I get that. I've owned both. I don't think you could go wrong either way.
 

Eshelmen

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Anyone see temp drops from their GPU when using a CPU AIO?
My 212 EVO isn’t cutting it. Just curious if I’d see a bit lower GPU temps with a CPU AIO assuming case temps should drop after removing an cpu blower . Right?
 

kirbyrj

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Anyone see temp drops from their GPU when using a CPU AIO?
My 212 EVO isn’t cutting it. Just curious if I’d see a bit lower GPU temps with a CPU AIO assuming case temps should drop after removing an cpu blower . Right?

Too many other factors at play to give a definitive answer (case, fans, which CPU, etc.). I'd assume that you'd get better temps over a 212 with a 240mm AIO, but hard to say without knowing more.
 

Eshelmen

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Too many other factors at play to give a definitive answer (case, fans, which CPU, etc.). I'd assume that you'd get better temps over a 212 with a 240mm AIO, but hard to say without knowing more.


Hardware in sig. Running around 70C in games, both CPU and GPU- GPU hits 73 to 75 at times even with a custom fan curve. And with like 90ish fan speed too at these temps.

CPU Overclocked to 5ghz at 1.38 V - Case and CPU fans on turbo and highest minimum speed(600rpm)

GPU isn’t overclocked

I just have the two exhaust fans that came with my H510i case. On on top and one in the back above CPU

PC is sitting on top of my desk and average room temps are a nominal 70 or so. I dust it and clean it out every three to five weeks.
 

kirbyrj

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Hardware in sig. Running around 70C in games, both CPU and GPU- GPU hits 73 to 75 at times even with a custom fan curve. And with like 90ish fan speed too at these temps.

CPU Overclocked to 5ghz at 1.38 V - Case and CPU fans on turbo and highest minimum speed(600rpm)

GPU isn’t overclocked

I just have the two exhaust fans that came with my H510i case. On on top and one in the back above CPU

My bad...I missed the sig. Yes, you probably would get better results with a 240mm AIO, but I'm not sure how much better it would be and whether or not it would be worth it. Did you try a 2nd fan in push/pull on the 212? I would guess you'd probably get a 5-10C drop with a decent 240mm+ AIO (CPU), but it's not like you have abnormal temps as it is now.

Where would you be looking to put the AIO? Top exhaust? Front intake? Intake, in theory, would have lower CPU temps, but higher GPU temps, and exhaust would theoretically be the other way around. You'd still probably have lower temps than you have now. How much lower temps? And the cost? Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you were going to upgrade your CPU.
 

Eshelmen

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My bad...I missed the sig. Yes, you probably would get better results with a 240mm AIO, but I'm not sure how much better it would be and whether or not it would be worth it. Did you try a 2nd fan in push/pull on the 212? I would guess you'd probably get a 5-10C drop with a decent 240mm+ AIO (CPU), but it's not like you have abnormal temps as it is now.

Where would you be looking to put the AIO? Top exhaust? Front intake? Intake, in theory, would have lower CPU temps, but higher GPU temps, and exhaust would theoretically be the other way around. How much lower temps? And the cost? Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you were going to upgrade your CPU.

I'll try and add another fan on the 212. It's pretty damn good for non oc. Temps barely reached 55C on CPU.

Thanks.
 

kirbyrj

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I'll try and add another fan on the 212. It's pretty damn good for non oc. Temps barely reached 55C on CPU.

Thanks.

Since your CPU temp is pretty good, you might look at adding an extra intake/exhaust fan or something if you have the space/header. Might help with the GPU heat, but what you're running now doesn't strike me as being abnormal. Might just end up being more noise.
 
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