High School Students Told To Delete Facebook Profiles

TechLarry said:
Contracts cannot take away constitutional rights, no matter how much power the school thinks it has over the students.

And that is really what this is all about.

It's the Parents job to deal with these things, not the Schools.

I would fire the schools board for misappropriation of school funds.
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Not even close to being on target here.

Remember students are under 18 and cannot enter a legally binding contract. Additionally, you have no right to Facebook or anything on the internet. On top of that this is a private religious school.

I think what a lot of people don't understand is what social interactions bring into the classroom and schools. In the old days (1990s) it was much more difficult for students to have the level of interaction they do now. I doubt the school is activitely querying facebook for their students. A much more reasonable explanation is a few students got into it at school over something that occurred on facebook. Furthermore, the explanation from the article is deeper than facebook as it states the schools expects them to completely ignore the internet. The idea being that modest Jews would have no need for the internet and certainly not facebook. This is more of a religious situation than an educational situation.
 
TechLarry said:
Contracts cannot take away constitutional rights, no matter how much power the school thinks it has over the students.

And that is really what this is all about.

It's the Parents job to deal with these things, not the Schools.

I would fire the schools board for misappropriation of school funds.
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You have no constitutional right to a Facebook account, and no constitutional right to a private education. Private entities can and do impose arbitrary restrictions on speech and free expression all the time. Private schools can tell you how to talk, how to dress, and how to behave, and it's perfectly legal and holds up in court. Even state-funded schools have the ability to impose many restrictions. Private entities have very broad rights to set certain requirements that govern your business with them. A business has a right to refuse to do business with you, or terminate business relations, as long as it isn't on the basis of a protected status like race, religion, and so on.

Your remedy, should you find the restrictions unfair, is to no longer do business with that private entity.

But on top of that, privately funded schools have even MORE rights. A Catholic school does NOT have to allow a non-Catholic student. A male school does NOT have to enroll a female. They can even refuse to enroll a disabled student, or a gay student. In fact, the only exception I'm aware of is race.

It's safe to say that if they can require you to follow a certain religion, they can require you to not have a Facebook account.
 
Entity said:
Ok, get this one. If they are under the age of 18, and since it is a high school I'm sure most of them are, they can not be legally bound by any contract they sign in any state in this country. The school has absolutely not legal grounds on this one.
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The age of majority differs state by state, in Alabama it's 19 and I think in some states it may be as low as 16 or 17. But you're right, if the children are below the age of majority in the state they're in, then the contract they signed means nothing.
 
I don't see anything wrong here. It's private school. They have their own rule. If you don't like it, go to public school. It's like I go to your house, and say hell no to your house rule, because it's my personal life. Nobody forces them to go there. If they want to blame, blame on their parents.
 
I'm no parent ...yet. But when the time comes there will be a rule set in my home and on my router no Facebook until your 18. As a not yet but concerned parent I like to know there are schools out there that will support my decisions.
 
lol you really shouldn't underestimate smart children I know I was one.

I would just use facebook at a friends house, or find a way to hack the router etc.

No matter how much you think you are gonna lock things down there is always a way around it.

You'd be better off making your child understand some of the reasons why facebook can be bad and when and where to use it.

This i'm the LAW this is my house you follow my rules or get out parenting will just get you child that hate you later in life and push you in a home when your 80 and forgotten.

I'm not saying to stop being a parent and be a friend but your roles will eventually switch in life and what goes around comes around.
 
Mchart said:
I'd tell them to mind their own fucking business.
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pretty much, but they could also tell you to take your business elsewhere, which frankly, any school that does this doesn't deserve business in the first place.

seperation of church and state and seperation of private/academic life.

pelo said:
You guys are aware it's a Hasidic Jewish school in a Hasidic Jewish community, right? I can tell you from personal experience that it was likely the parents' idea in the first place. This isn't really shocking at all. Frankly, it's expected =P
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My parochial schooling tells me its clearly always the Jews fault :D :p (yes this is a joke)

Alpert said:
I'm no parent ...yet. But when the time comes there will be a rule set in my home and on my router no Facebook until your 18. As a not yet but concerned parent I like to know there are schools out there that will support my decisions.
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Interesting, My kids will probably be those "damned delinquents" to ya then. I look forward to being in the office every week dealing with my kids questioning authority at every turn until i inevitably have to homeschool the little anarchists :D
 
No drugs no alcohol no sex no Xbox Live amongst other things will we strictly enforced, well at least till they become of age. Having a child 15 and below all rules will apply. I do understand as children grow they mature and usually around the age 16 respect becomes a two way street and needs to be earned from both side's, adult and teenager. At the age of 16 I would consider such as Facebook privileges and and others to gain the respect of me young-ins.

But who no's time will only tell and my plans could fall apart.
 
dr.kevin said:
possibly the best thing a school could do for a child.
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No kidding


I don't see what the big deal is... it's their right to enforce their own rules. They're doing the kids a favor, even though they don't realize it. Props to the school
 
kontact said:
How do you figure that? Religion is not law so fuck off with the bullshit you freedom hating POS.
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Lol, obvious troll is obvious?

Facebook/ the internet (anymore) is a service. You have no rights to a service.
 
And this is why religion is just as evil as any other dictatorial government system. Sad pandas.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Hi kontact. It's very obvious you're either a troll, or developmentally disabled. A private school has every right to expel a child if any of their rules are violated. The government doesn't dictate rules of a private organization. You have the freedom to apply to any private school you wish, the school will decide if they will accept you.
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They have no legal right to set rules outside of school hours. Freedom hater!
 
kontact said:
They have no legal right to set rules outside of school hours. Freedom hater!
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Sure they do. They can expel you for having an after school neo Nazi rally just as easily as having a Facebook page or actively worshipping Pagan gods.
 
The one-eyed God Odin would not take kindly to that sort of blasphemy.

You guys have to remember the children are going to a Hasidic school which has just as much (and likely more) to teach them with respect to moral traditions and etiquette than it does about science or mathematics. They weren't enrolled there to get a top-notch education but a top-notch Jewish education that aligns with their parents views. Now whether the school can or can't do these things legally doesn't really matter because they were enrolled there specifically to have these sorts of restrictions in the first place.
 
kontact said:
They have no legal right to set rules outside of school hours. Freedom hater!
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You're right, you can do whatever you want at home and they can't do anything legally to stop you, but they do have the right to kick you out of their school for just about any reason they want.

Don't like it? Tough shit. It's legal in the US. Don't enroll your kids in a private school that has rules you don't agree with.
 
kontact said:
They have no legal right to set rules outside of school hours. Freedom hater!
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Yes, they do have a right to put terms in their contract that is signed by the parents.

What some of you are so quick to forget, is that as a private individual running a private business, you have the FREEDOM to run the business how you see fit.

Want to start a diner and refuse to serve bacon on a hamburger or allow patrons to use their cellphones in your establishment? You can do that. Want to make people sign a contract that if they eat your burgers they aren't allowed to go to mcdonalds for a week? You can do that too. The customer has the FREEDOM to choose not to do business with you. It's the same reason that HardOCP has the FREEDOM to delete forum posts that they don't like.

Public schools that are run by the government are a different matter. This is about a private school.

Rant and moan about freedom all you want, but keep in mind that you have the freedom to run your own business and set your own rules in that business. Unless you plan on being a bottom of the totem pole lackey wherever you might work for the rest of your life.
 
i think the secondary thing to look at here is at the contracts. I think parents sign and agree to these types of overbearing contracts a little too often and hastily. There should be some focus on what exactly these schools/institutions are able to get away with in their contracts, maybe not from a law standpoint but a quality of service standpoint.

but i guess that is going to vary from household to household
 
Manaknight said:
i think the secondary thing to look at here is at the contracts. I think parents sign and agree to these types of overbearing contracts a little too often and hastily. There should be some focus on what exactly these schools/institutions are able to get away with in their contracts, maybe not from a law standpoint but a quality of service standpoint.

but i guess that is going to vary from household to household
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While I think there should be some consumer protection in business (which a lot of western countries do have), this is not one of those times. A private school is a business, they offer the product that is education that carries with it certain terms and conditions. As long as they are legally providing the consumer with the product they advertised and agreed to give, I don't see the problem. Laws are to protect people getting hurt by OTHER stupid people and keep hold businesses to their word and ensure they have some liability. Its not to protect stupid people from themselves by agreeing to terms to which they never should have agreed.
 
kontact said:
They have no legal right to set rules outside of school hours. Freedom hater!
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You want to force a private business to run things the way you want instead of the way the owner wants. Sounds like you're the one who hates freedom, because you don't want the school(the business) to be *free* to set its own policies.
 
You guys have to understand that these kids' parents put them in that school BECAUSE of those rules. The rules are the purpose of the school's existence. As others have mentioned, this is a private school. You either follow the rules or you leave. Some thing happened to the BYU football player who was caught having sex. Nobody has to agree with it except for the people who choose to utilize the schools.
 
It says specifically that the students signed the contract, not the parents. Therefor not enforceable under most state laws.
 
Entity said:
It says specifically that the students signed the contract, not the parents. Therefor not enforceable under most state laws.
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Doesn't matter, the parents can't force the private school to allow them to attend.
 
kontact said:
Only freedom haters would think this is ok. How does going to a private school give them the right to tell people what they can do in their private time? They don't have that right!
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I agree about your opinion! The school don't have the right to do this ! But to children ,they must think about this problem why the school will do like this.
 
Alpert said:
No drugs no alcohol no sex no Xbox Live amongst other things will we strictly enforced, well at least till they become of age. Having a child 15 and below all rules will apply. I do understand as children grow they mature and usually around the age 16 respect becomes a two way street and needs to be earned from both side's, adult and teenager. At the age of 16 I would consider such as Facebook privileges and and others to gain the respect of me young-ins.

But who no's time will only tell and my plans could fall apart.
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So, I guess you will give up any jobs/hobbies and just spend the whole time watching your children 24/7/364.25?

That is a rediculous plan. Telling someone "no" will just make them want it more. Explaining why something is bad and educating them seems a much better option. Ortherwise they will just go nuts when they get out of the prison, be completely ignorant of the world and end up worse.

So many parents spend more time enforcing rules and power over minors than they do doing positive things to help the child... They wont respect you, and shouldn't for you being a big no machine. Just think you are kind of weird, and distance themselves as soon as they can as far from your controlling ways as possible. It's not an easy situation.
 
So all the students really have to do to be in "good standing" is to delete their current facebook page and create one using a fake name, etc.

Then they can let their friends know their "new name", and nobody would be the wiser.

Even better would be to come up with a code and not only use fake names but change their online gender to male.. put their ages as a lot older. That would be a new one... young girls posing as older men on Facebook. hehehehehe.

This is providing that their isn't a snitch in the group.. but peer pressure sure can keep that in check now can't it?
 
Shadowplay said:
We're not talking about laws here. There's nothing illegal about a company or private organization refusing service to an individual, as long as it's not discriminatory. I liken it to one of those "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" signs at restaurants. If you want to patronize that establishment, it is understood that you must follow their code of conduct.

I would agree that the school's "modesty" policy is a little too far reaching for my tastes, but the parents, who almost certainly share the same ideology as the school, agreed to it when they enrolled. Education is not a monopoly. if they don't like the policy, there are other options available.
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No shoes, no shirt is backed up and required by health law (for whatever reason). One could easily make the argument that telling people they have to be "modest" and cant use facebook is violating free speech and other protected behavior.
 
Elf_Boy said:
One could easily make the argument that telling people they have to be "modest" and cant use facebook is violating free speech and other protected behavior.
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And one would be hilariously wrong. Copious amounts of legal precedent says private schools have broad discretion in setting rules for enrollment. They can even discriminate based on religion and disability, huge no-nos in other businesses. They can even tell you what to wear!

It's not even obscure arcane legalism, it's well known, and is the reason so many private schools operate with a wide variety of restrictions on student conduct both on and off campus. I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand.
 
NKDietrich said:
And one would be hilariously wrong. Copious amounts of legal precedent says private schools have broad discretion in setting rules for enrollment. They can even discriminate based on religion and disability, huge no-nos in other businesses. They can even tell you what to wear!

It's not even obscure arcane legalism, it's well known, and is the reason so many private schools operate with a wide variety of restrictions on student conduct both on and off campus. I don't see why this is so hard for you to understand.
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Would you still defend the school if they said any student using a telephone in or out of school is expelled? How about if they expelled anyone who used the postal service? What if they told students they could only take showers on odd numbered days? That must be some school if they have all this time to sit around making up absurd arbitrary rules.
 
FYMbyIce said:
Would you still defend the school if they said any student using a telephone in or out of school is expelled? How about if they expelled anyone who used the postal service? What if they told students they could only take showers on odd numbered days? That must be some school if they have all this time to sit around making up absurd arbitrary rules.
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I'm not defending their rules, I'm defending their right to set them. People like to bitch and cry about "OH NO MY FREEDOMS" but guess what? Privately funded schools have freedoms too, including the freedom to make stupid rules.

Don't like it? Don't do business with them. A private organization isn't obligated to enroll your child any more than you're obligated to allow me into your house.
 
FYMbyIce said:
Would you still defend the school if they said any student using a telephone in or out of school is expelled? How about if they expelled anyone who used the postal service? What if they told students they could only take showers on odd numbered days? That must be some school if they have all this time to sit around making up absurd arbitrary rules.
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Yes, I would defend their ability to make stupid rules, because they have the freedom to do so. Freedom does not end when someone decides it becomes an inconvenience that they don't agree with. The parents are not forced to send their students to this school, and if the policies are so absurd that no one enrolls their students then the private business goes out of business. It's very simple.

If this were a public school then it would be a different matter since it's not optional(as far as I'm aware most states force kids to at least go to public school, which is free).
 
Well, I can honestly say that I personally find what the school is doing incredibly backwards and controlling. I don't think much of the school or the religion for imposing such restrictions, and honestly don't think it will promote anything positive in society. But I find fault with organized religion in most cases anyway, so this is nothing new.

I do agree that the school is protected by current law allowing them to do these things. These schools and other religious entities tend to get away with a lot of things that individuals, and even businesses cannot, thanks to "freedom of religion," and "separation of church and state."

I would argue that our legal system is extremely messed up itself, however, and grants these entities far more latitude than they should have. The government is taking too many rights from individuals, and giving too many to private entities, especially religious ones. I think it would serve justice better to have it the other way around, but corruption and greed will ensure that the senators continue lining their pockets with "campaign donations" and creating laws that don't favor the people.

So, what they do is technically legal, but I disapprove strongly of the system that makes it legal.
 
athenian200 said:
So, what they do is technically legal, but I disapprove strongly of the system that makes it legal.
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So you'd rather have it so that businesses are not allowed to conduct their business on their own terms?

I personally think its a stupid rule, but I agree with the freedom for the school to implement stupid rules and the freedom of the families to choose whether they want to go there. Anything else is imposing YOUR beliefs and YOUR values onto those people.
 
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