HEVC Decoding preferred video card for HTPC: 1050 vs Ti ??

Discussion in 'Video Cards' started by davidm71, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Hi,

    Was wondering if what you guys recommend for an HTPC for playing back x265 MVK files on PowerDVD 16 or Windows Movie Player? I read you need a pascal card to get hardware support. Right now I got a 720GT in there but don't want to loose out of video fidelity and smooth play back. Is the 1050 Ti better than the 1050? Or just the same?

    Thanks
     
  2. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,171
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    if all it is is video playback go 1050. and I'm pretty sure it will be better than a 720gt.
     
  3. EODetroit

    EODetroit [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,070
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    I think they're the same for that purpose. Go with whichever is cheaper or has a better cooling solution (fanless for example).
     
  4. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

    Messages:
    16,355
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2003
    AMD RX460 would suit you well also for a HTPC build. It has HEVC and H.265 encode / decode also.

    Here is a completely passively cooled card that of course is completely silent.
    http://xfxforce.com/en-us/products/amd-radeon-rx-400-series/rx-460-4gb-heatsink-rx-460p4hfg5-

    This one is slim and has a fan for better cooling if you want that option.


    Here is me trying some HEVC H.265 encoding with my RX480. Yes, I am a noob at it. Used to just hitting encode and walking away. ;)
    https://hardforum.com/threads/as-video-converter-h-265-and-hevc.1920651/

    Video of a guy using a PowerColor RX460 as a HTPC. He shows it accelerating video.


    Here is the passively cooled XFX RX460 from above running some games.
     
  5. trandoanhung1991

    trandoanhung1991 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,039
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    If it's just for decoding, QuickSync from Intel is better than Nvidia's CUVID, as CUVID doesn't output 10bit, but AFAIK QuickSync does. So you'll have to resort to DXVA. DXVA works with all GPUs, so you have a lot of choices there.

    In my opinion, get the most performance for the budget you can. You can always use the extra performance for better experience. For playback I recommend MediaPlayerDOTNet and its extensions. For decoding LAV Filters. If you want to have your mind blown, try out Smooth Video Playback as well.

    Nothing feels better than interpolated 60/144FPS movies. Once you've experienced 60FPS movies you'll never want to see 24FPS ever again.
     
  6. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,299
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    It not as good as it misses VP9. Also it uses more power during playback.
    https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/RX_460_STRIX_OC/22.html
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    whateverer likes this.
  7. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,171
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
  8. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,299
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Unless someone can show it actually supports VP9 and even more importantly, VP9_10. Then you have to assume no and call the wiki wrong.

    Same for Polaris 10.
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Ra...-Polaris-desktop-card-at-launch.168250.0.html
    [​IMG]

    The Wiki is also wrong for Intel. Only Kaby Lake got support.

    Example from my i3 6100U NUC.
    [​IMG]

    Carrizo/Bristol Ridge is also wrong I guess. No idea what is right and wrong from the ARM pool. But I bet there is a few wrongs there too and some with half assed support.

    GP104/GP106(And GP102?) only got 8bit support for VP9, not 10bit.

    If you want the full decode support you buy Kaby Lake IGP, or a GTX1050(TI). No other PC product exist with the same decode abilities.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  9. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,171
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    address the ops topic. he asked about 1050 vs 1050ti and hevc. not vp9 and now you add vp9_10. the rx460 was someones suggested alternate but it would do what the op wants.
     
  10. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,299
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    OP didn't ask about the RX460 either.

    VP9/VP9 10bit decode is a lot more important than people think due to Google, Netflix etc. And its pretty much the same as HEVC/HEVC 10bit.

    If you want hardware decode for Netflix 4K, you need Kaby Lake or a GTX1050(TI).

    And a quick edit note, AV1 codec will come next year. Starting to invalidate all the previous again...
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  11. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,171
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    dude wtf?! youre just jumping from one thing to the next to continue arguing and "prove" your point. I am clearly stating and addressing each thing and then you grab onto something else. lets break it down;

    cagey suggested r460 as an alternative to the 1050 (how dare someone mention amd in a nv post?! :rolleyes:)
    you started in about the vp9 "issue" on the 460 and power draw
    I post that wiki states 460 supports vp9 decode but not encode and that its beside the point when op asked about 1050/ti + hevc
    then you bring up the "more important" vp9_10, do some ninja editing to your post(add edit notation ffs) to try and disprove anything that doesn't align with your thoughts but then say "Bristol Ridge is also wrong I guess. No idea what is right and wrong from the ARM pool. But I bet there is a few wrongs there too and some with half assed support" which is speculation.
    then I again clearly state that I am addressing the original topic and the 460 was simply suggested
    you say but "Op didn't ask about the RX460", google, Netflix, vp9/_10, 4K and AV1 blah blah blaah
    I just fucking said that! suggested and then you start steering in another direction again by bring up, Netflix, 4k and AV1.

    WTF man?! just knock it off. what makes it even more ridiculous is that we are agreeing that the 1050 is what he needs. just stop, I am.
     
    {NG}Fidel likes this.
  12. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

    Messages:
    16,355
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2003
    Ha ha
    In the first video the guy is playing back 4K HDR content. Why is that guy hating on me for suggesting slim and passively cooled HTPC cards? I was just giving the OP suggestions. Sometimes people ask questions and I like to find more information for them. I think it's neat to at least find out everything that you can about a subject before purchasing hardware. If I posted something wrong then I apologize.

    I even listed my own personal H.265 HEVC encoding testing from this thread.
    https://hardforum.com/threads/as-video-converter-h-265-and-hevc.1920651/

    In the thread I have a post where MediaInfo clearly says that I encoded the video with H.265 and it is HEVC compliant.
    https://hardforum.com/threads/as-video-converter-h-265-and-hevc.1920651/#post-1042718191

    General
    Complete name : D:\Really old stuff\DVD Temp Files\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.mp4
    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
    Codec ID : mp42 (mp41/isom)
    File size : 537 MiB
    Duration : 19 min 33 s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 3 840 kb/s
    Encoded date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    Tagged date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : HEVC
    Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
    Format profile : Main@L6.2@Main
    Codec ID : hev1
    Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
    Duration : 19 min 33 s
    Source duration : 19 min 33 s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 3 551 kb/s
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
    Standard : NTSC
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.343
    Stream size : 497 MiB (92%)
    Source stream size : 518 MiB (97%)
    Encoded date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    Tagged date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    mdhd_Duration : 1173687

    Audio
    ID : 2
    Format : AAC
    Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
    Format profile : LC
    Codec ID : 40
    Duration : 19 min 33 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 128 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 spf)
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Stream size : 18.4 MiB (3%)
    Encoded date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    Tagged date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    mdhd_Duration : 1173419


    What did I do wrong? I think the GTX 1050 & Ti variant are mighty nice cards also. I just thought that the OP may want some alternatives to make the best possible decision.

    Thanks pendragon1 for setting him straight. ;)
     
    pendragon1 likes this.
  13. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,171
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    you did nothing wrong. you just suggested an alternative to nv and that sparked it off
     
    {NG}Fidel and cageymaru like this.
  14. Tup3x

    Tup3x [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,692
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2011
    As far as I know the latest driver included VP9 decoding for Polaris based cards. I don't know how proper decoding it is but the VP9 and HEVC decoding works great on Pascal based GPUs. Pick GTX 1050 Ti only if you for some reason need the extra VRAM (dunno if MadVR would benefit from more, but if you don't like to tinker with stuff just get the GTX 1050).
     
    cageymaru likes this.
  15. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,299
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Yes, because more information before picking a card is bad. Better the user finds out later, right? :D
     
  16. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,299
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Its only for RX470/RX480 and done via OpenCL hybrid decoding and on top its only for 8bit, not 10bit. Its not exactly efficient to put it mildly and it requires a hack to enable it. So its not on as default. RX460 is too weak to do it from the looks of it.

    http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171219&page=85
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  17. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,205
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Dude, you hardly need shit to playback hevc and really only need cpu. And second you don't use powerdvd or wmp, you use mediaplayer classic. Go download hmm, like the k-lite codec mega pack, it will come bundled with some great tools like mediainfo and of course mediaplayer classic. By default it will run everything off cpu, until you decide to go hardware. Most any halfway decent cpu can handle 4k decode, its not hard and you DO NOT SPECIFICALLY NEED a Pascal card. You can use one, I use one, but its not mandatory. You could decode everything in cpu and not even give a damn. But encoding is a whole other matter for another thread.
     
    cageymaru likes this.
  18. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,171
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    my system plays back hvec just fine, even 10bit files and upscaled to 1440p. so am I lying or wrong because my system can do it? like TSM just said, MCE + k-lite and it plays it just fine. yeah maybe not a efficiently as an nv/intel combo but not everyone cares about that and when you really break it down it might be a couple bucks a year. and yes before you feel the need to say it, a bit more heat.
     
  19. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Guys,

    Thanks for the colorful examples and options given. Would have replied back sooner but wasn't subscribed to my own thread for some reason. Since then anyhow I've discovered 10 bit x265 encoding in handbrake. Understand 10 bit files have better color depth, less artifacts, similar file size and don't take much longer to encode. Have yet to test playback in PowerDvd and Windows Movie Player of 10 bit files but shouldnt be a problem for Plex. Anyhow siding on getting a 1050ti and looking to future proof. Still got a lot to learn.


    Thanks.
     
    cageymaru likes this.
  20. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,205
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    10bit is better, better compression, less banding but the downside is that it has terrible support for mobile devices. And using sw decode drains the batt. I use 10bit for my 4k encodes but not 1080p as I like to watch those on my tablets.
     
  21. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    I mostly care about playback on my HTPC so battery and mobile not a concern. Good to know though if I ever do move them on my ipad or something. Wonder though if playback on ipad through Plex would affect battery since Plex server is doing the decoding..

    Thanks
     
  22. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    After searching I found this:

    Professional grade:
    Quadro Support list (Quadro M2000 /Tesla P4 or higher)

    Consumer Grade:
    GeForce Support list (Feature Set "D" or higher only)
    Feature set "D" supports H.264 (up to 4032 × 4048 pixels.)
    Feature Set E,F, and H support H.265 (up to 8192x8192/8k resolution)


    Feature Set D
    Similar to feature set C but added support for decoding H.264 with a resolution of up to 4032 × 4080 and MPEG-1/MPEG-2 with a resolution of up to 4032 × 4048 pixels.
    GeForce GT 630 (28 nm), GT 640 (non-OEM), GTX 650, GT 730 (OEM), GT 640M, GT 645M, GT 650M, GTX 660M, GT 740M, GT 745M, GT 750M, GT 755M, GeForce GTX 660 (OEM), GTX 660 Ti, GTX 670, GTX 680, GTX 690, GTX 760, GTX 760 Ti, GTX 770, GTX 680M, GTX 680MX, GTX 775M, GTX 780M, GTX 860M, GTX 870M, GTX 880M, GeForce GTX 650 Ti, GTX 660, GTX 670MX, GTX 675MX, GTX 760M, GTX 765M, GTX 770M, GeForce GTX 780, GTX 780 Ti, GTX TITAN, GTX TITAN BLACK, GTX TITAN Z,GeForce GT 630 rev. 2, GT 635, GT 640 rev. 2, GT 710, GT 720, GT 730 (GDDR5), GT 730M, GT 735M, GT 740M

    Feature Set E
    Similar to feature set D but added support for decoding H.264 with a resolution of up to 4096 × 4096 and MPEG-1/MPEG-2 with a resolution of up to 4080 × 4080 pixels. GPUs with VDPAU feature set E support an enhanced error concealment mode which provides more robust error handling when decoding corrupted video streams. Cards with this feature set use a combination of the PureVideo hardware and software running on the shader array to decode HEVC (H.265) as partial/hybrid hardware video decoding.
    GeForce GTX 745, GTX 750, GTX 750 Ti, GTX 850M, GTX 860M,GeForce 830M, 840M,GeForce GTX 970, GTX 980, GTX 970M, GTX 980M,GeForce GTX TITAN X, GeForce GTX 980 Ti

    Feature Set F
    Introduced dedicated HEVC Main (8-bit) & Main 10 (10-bit) and VP9 hardware decoding video decoding up to 4096 × 2304 pixels resolution.
    GeForce GTX 750 SE, GTX 950, GTX 960

    Feature Set G
    Introduced dedicated hardware video decoding of HEVC Main 12 (12-bit) up to 4096 × 2304 pixels resolution.

    Feature Set H are capable of hardware-accelerated decoding of 8192x8192 (8k resolution) H.265/HEVC video streams
    GeForce GTX 1070, GTX 1080, GeForce GTX 1060, NVIDIA TITAN XP, GeForce GTX 1050, GTX 1050 Ti
     
  23. raidflex

    raidflex Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    256
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    If you are planning to run Windows 10 then the GTX 1050 will work perfectly fine for 4k 10-bit HEVC content. Otherwise there is no proper Linux support for 4k 10-bit HEVC hardware acceleration for NVIDIA GPU's currently and it may not happen for a long time.

    I ended up pickup up this board http://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/J4205-ITX/index.us.asp which only about $100 and supports full 4k 10-bit HEVC hardware acceleration and is passively cooled. It works well with Libreelec and Kodi.

    Edit: I was also able to pass audio out with a DVI > HDMI adapter this way I could use my existing 1080p Pioneer receiver and go 4k through HDMI directly to my Samsung JS8500 TV.
     
  24. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Thanks but not going to go the Linux route though know there are some respectable media center apps out there for it, and not ready for a new motherboard cpu upgrade just yet either.

    Would be tempting though to go with an Asus Prime Z270 mAtx and an i5 7500 cpu or something.

    FWIW DXVA checker said my notebook can handle main 10 playback.

    Anyhow probably going to get a 1050 ti card. Theres an MSI 1050 Ti onsale on Newegg right now for $125. MSI GTX 1050 Ti at Newegg Link. Reports claim the fan is noisy. Wish it was fanless.

    What to do...

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  25. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,205
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    That doesn't matter dude, it's kinda pointless. It only makes a real world difference when making a master.

     
  26. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    A Master?

    Thanks for the video. Watching it now.
     
  27. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,205
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    It only makes sense when you're making the source like recording a video, you want to capture as much fidelity as possible. The source is called the master. Then from there you work your way down. When you playback a 10bit video, it gets dithered down to 8bit anyways because 99% of the time the video gets displayed to a 8bit panel.
     
  28. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Then how do you tell if you have an 8 bit or 10 bit panel?
     
  29. DPI

    DPI [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,038
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Huh? To my eyes, it's the opposite: nothing looks worse than that interpolated, uncanny, "looks like it was show on video" look to a film.

    Example, Pirates of the Caribbean interpolated = looks like daytime soap opera. Am I missing something?
     
  30. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,205
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Big bucks to buy a pro panel. Kinda hard to miss it spending thousands on a panel. ;)
     
  31. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    What about a good plasma TV? Probably 8-bit?
     
  32. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,205
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    I think you're overly obsessed with 10bit?
     
  33. davidm71

    davidm71 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Only because I thought it provided a slight advantage in terms of quality of picture ie less banding and colors but if you say all thats moot on an 8-bit panel then no I'm not obsessed..
     
  34. trandoanhung1991

    trandoanhung1991 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,039
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    If you're gonna get Kaby Lake then why bother with a dGPU? Kaby Lake iGPU supports HEVC 10bit decode. http://www.anandtech.com/show/10610...six-notebook-skus-desktop-coming-in-january/3

    What software did you use for interpolation?

    There's really no point. You're ultimately going to be limited by the panel. But, if you want to be more future-proof for HDR then having 10-bit decode won't hurt.

    Just know that it'll probably take quite a while for HDR to catch on, just like Bluray and 4K.
     
  35. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,299
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    10bit playback is still a requirement when the content is 10bit tho, 6, 8 or 10bit panel alike.