A's Video Converter. H.265 and HEVC.

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by cageymaru, Dec 23, 2016.

  1. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
  2. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Have you tried it out yet? No x265 on amd yet, too bad.
     
  3. mnewxcv

    mnewxcv [H]ardness Supreme

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    where did this thread come from?
     
  4. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    RX 480 should have both H.265 and HEVC. Haven't tried it yet though.
     
  5. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    Saw it posted on Reddit. :)
     
  6. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's not the issue which is that this software doesn't support x265 on amd.
     
  7. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    It does in the 7.0 beta. There are 2 versions of the software on the page. And 2 sets of release notes.

    Changes
    Version 7.0.0 Beta 2 (12/22/2016)
    • Fixed application error under specific condition when using AMD VCE H.265 Encoder
    • Fixed not running hardware decode under specific settings
    • Minor changes and fixes
    Version 7.0.0 Beta (12/18/2016)
    • Added support for VCE H.265 / HEVC encoding with AMD Radeon RX 480/470/460 GPU (Required Crimson ReLive Edition)
    • Added support to select GPU for hardware encoder
    • Fixed green line issue by playing file created by AMD VCE H.264 Encoder and external muxer
    • Resolved interlace encoding problem with AMD VCE H.264 Encoder and internal muxer
    • Fixed slow playback issue when playing interlaced video file created by VCE or QSV encoder and MP4Box
    • Resolved problem when playing video file created by Microsoft H.265 Encoder with specific decoder
    • Added support for Dolby AC3, ALAC and FLAC encoding
    • Added support for AAC, ALAC, FLAC and Opus encoding using external encoder
    • Added support for multi audio stream
    • Added support for 5.1 ch audio
    • Added support for MKV output using MKVToolNix
    • Added "Use time codes" option for external muxer
    • Added "Include sub folder" and "Start on startup" option for folder watch
    • Fixed issue when using Avisynth filter
    • Many changes and fixes
     
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  8. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Oh thanks, I didn't look under the specific beta notes. You have a 480 don't you cagey? Have you tried this out yet?
     
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  9. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    Not yet. Was playing The Division with a friend. :)
     
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  10. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    So I took some over a decade old concert footage that I had made into DVD format ~2004 and used the basic H.265 AMD VCE encoder to transcode it. I had to install a K Lite codec pack to get Windows 10 to recognize the DVD ".VOB" format which was annoying as hell. The VOB file was .99GB. The output was 537mb. I did the conversion on the same ancient hard drive as the base file because I am sleepy. ;) I'll try it again tomorrow when I can make better decisions. There is a noticeable degradation in quality from the original footage to the transcoded video file. At this point, I'm just happy to see that Windows 10 can actually play the original source. If there is a better way to get codecs onto Windows 10, feel free to suggest solutions!

    General
    Complete name : D:\Really old stuff\DVD Temp Files\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.mp4
    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
    Codec ID : mp42 (mp41/isom)
    File size : 537 MiB
    Duration : 19 min 33 s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 3 840 kb/s
    Encoded date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    Tagged date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : HEVC
    Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
    Format profile : Main@L6.2@Main
    Codec ID : hev1
    Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
    Duration : 19 min 33 s
    Source duration : 19 min 33 s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 3 551 kb/s
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
    Standard : NTSC
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.343
    Stream size : 497 MiB (92%)
    Source stream size : 518 MiB (97%)
    Encoded date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    Tagged date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    mdhd_Duration : 1173687

    Audio
    ID : 2
    Format : AAC
    Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
    Format profile : LC
    Codec ID : 40
    Duration : 19 min 33 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 128 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 spf)
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Stream size : 18.4 MiB (3%)
    Encoded date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    Tagged date : UTC 2016-12-24 09:18:14
    mdhd_Duration : 1173419
     
  11. mnewxcv

    mnewxcv [H]ardness Supreme

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    ok, maybe I am missing it. What is the big deal about the fact that we can transcode hevc 265 with hardware now? Is the appeal just file size?
     
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  12. rhansen5_99

    rhansen5_99 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think the theory is that the H.265 is twice as efficient as far as file size to quality. So a 4k h264 at 10gb should be virtually the same quality at ~5gb at h265. Maybe way cooler for streaming content over the pipe and 4k UHD bluray storage on optical media.

    The question I have is how do you get something that has already been encoded to h264 into a h265 format with out perceived quality loss? It sure would be slick to re-encode my Plex libraries and get 1/2 my storage back :)
     
  13. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    Did my test come out right in regards to what you would have done for your library? I'm no encoding guru so I just used the basic settings. Let me see if I can take a screenshot of the settings I used real fast. I might edit this post with that information.
     
  14. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    2016-12-24.png

    I can change all of those settings by clicking on them.
     
  15. mnewxcv

    mnewxcv [H]ardness Supreme

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    what is the bitrate of your source? I mean I know about HEVC in the sense than my camera uses h.265 codec, but it also shoots at 100Mbps.
     
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  16. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Here's how you can show the comparison. List out the source and its mediainfo, then your result, what settings you used to get there. You should use a bluray source movie at say 10K-14K kb/s. Then list out the time difference, and lastly any difference in video quality.

    With mediacoder, I've found that I can match any 1080p source quality with 1/2 the video bitrate using NVENC. The time saved is also astronomical because using cpu with a 14K kb/s movie in slow priority in handbrake would take nearly 3 hours. With NVENC and mediacoder its down to around 30-40minutes.
     
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  17. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    yeah ms removed native dvd support which is dumb but saves them licensing fees is guess. ive been using klite since I first installed the first w10ip and I don't notice any difference other than the icons in the task bar(if you leave them enabled). it has native support for mkv/x264 but not dvd :rolleyes:

    I haven't tried reencoding anything yet but yes it sure is nice to be able to get the same quality for aboot half the size. ive started looking specifically for x265 files and have replaced a bunch of x264s and avis etc.
     
  18. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm 1/2 of the way thru re-encoding all my shit to x265. At some point I had to either increase my drive array size or shrink my data size. x265 to the rescue!
     
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  19. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I think it'd take forever on my current system to re-encode everything I have. its not a ton, ~1.5TB, but my system isn't exactly an encoders dream and no x265...
     
  20. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    Remember this is concert footage from yesteryear. Well over 10 years old and was shot on a Wal Mart bought Sony digital camcorder that is long gone. I remember it using tapes instead of memory cards. :)

    General
    Complete name : D:\Really old stuff\DVD Temp Files\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.VOB
    Format : MPEG-PS
    File size : 1 024 MiB
    Duration : 19 min 33 s
    Overall bit rate mode : Variable
    Overall bit rate : 7 321 kb/s

    Video
    ID : 224 (0xE0)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Default
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
    Format settings, picture st : Frame
    Duration : 19 min 33 s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 6 984 kb/s
    Maximum bit rate : 9 641 kb/s
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Standard : NTSC
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Interlaced
    Scan order : Bottom Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.674
    Time code of first frame : 00:19:26:13
    Time code source : Group of pictures header
    GOP, Open/Closed : Open
    Stream size : 977 MiB (95%)

    Audio
    ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
    Format : AC-3
    Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
    Mode extension : CM (complete main)
    Format settings, Endianness : Big
    Muxing mode : DVD-Video
    Duration : 19 min 33 s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 192 kb/s
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
    Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
    Bit depth : 16 bits
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Delay relative to video : -529 ms
    Stream size : 26.9 MiB (3%)

    Menu
     
  21. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    I do own a Blu Ray of the last Star Wars flick, but I only bought it to get the digital code to add to Amazon Video. A nephew of mine dropped off a Blu Ray burner for a computer, but I have no idea where it is in my boxes of ancient tech. Guess I could find a trailer or something online to encode for science.
     
  22. Algrim

    Algrim [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't know if the x264 and x265 encoding settings mean the same thing but if they do I'd restrict your qp in between 16 and 28. qp 0 just jacks up your movie size (qp 16 is good enough not to show quality issues); anything over 28/30 is visual degradation to anyone who has the visual acuity to notice. I use q22 for H.264 videos for commercial distribution.
     
  23. Schmave

    Schmave [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm going to have to try this program sometime. I was ripping a BluRay disc yesterday and my 2500K was getting less than 10 fps doing an HEVC encode. The GPU accelerated version should be way faster. If I have time I'll try doing the same quality settings between a CPU and GPU encode and see if I can tell the difference.
     
  24. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    The quality factors scale differently between x264 and x265. You'll have to try it out and test for your individual machine. In my setup and findings, I use average bit rate and I've arrived at a general rule of thumb which is that x265/nvenc needs only 1/2 the bit rate of the original to maintain same quality. For ex. if the original was 8K bit rate, using average bit rate, a setting of 4K bit rate avg nets me almost an exact copy of the original at half the video file size. I can't say that this will hold true for any other setups though. I use mediacoder btw.
     
  25. mnewxcv

    mnewxcv [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'll do this as soon as plex supports hevc playback.
     
  26. Algrim

    Algrim [H]ard|Gawd

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    Thanks for the note. (Not to derail this thread further...) I have one of my spare 12 core Xeons working on an experimental encode now. I note that all the examples only use CRF and not QP. I notice in my own encodes that QP on x264 is subtly different (i.e. better) than CRF so I may need to play around with a few options to see what ends up working for us. Well, that's s assuming that we want to pony up for the H.265 royalties. :rage:
     
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  27. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    None of the hardware accelerated encoders will ever match what x264 and x265 software-based encoding are capable of, sadly. Now that Kaby Lake does offer some more potential in terms of quality settings with HEVC/h.265 encoding (compared to what it could do on Skylake) things could be better but still no match for what x264 and x265 can really do. Yeah, it kinda sucks that hardware accelerated encoders still can't match that software encoder quality but it's better than nothing I suppose.

    And then on top of this we've got AV1 coming down the pike and that could soon be bit-frozen and a standard finally so it remains to be seen what's going to actually happen.
     
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  28. Schmave

    Schmave [H]ard|Gawd

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    So last night I tried the program using the AMD h.265 encoder and it didn't seem to work (this is with an RX 480). I didn't have much time to try it, and the only input file I tried was already encoded as h.265, but when I clicked start it just said "Failed". I'll try it again with an actual BluRay rip MKV file and see what happens. I had deleted the last rip files I did and didn't get around to ripping another one.

    Has anyone else had success with the AMD hardware accelerated h.265 encoding in this program?
     
  29. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    You have to use the Beta to get H.265 encoding on a RX 480, but it worked for me.
     
  30. Schmave

    Schmave [H]ard|Gawd

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    I did install the 7.0.0 beta 3 version on the site. I basically left most of the settings at default otherwise.

    What type of file was your input file (was it the above long post?)? Did you change any of the other output settings at all? I'm wondering if this program only likes certain input file types.
     
  31. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    Yes, I detailed it above, but it was some old concert footage from 2003 or 2004 that I had made into DVD format and left lingering on an old Seagate HD. I had to install a codec pack to make it work as Windows 10 64 doesn't seem to know what the DVD format is. I chose the K Lite pack only because when I was in college it was what I used. I have no idea if it is the best nowadays.

    I was using Beta 2 at the time. I will try Beta 3 this evening for you. If you know of a file that I can download and encode for science feel free to link it. (No copyright stuff of course.)
     
  32. Schmave

    Schmave [H]ard|Gawd

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    Alright I'll try again tonight. Like I said I didn't spend much time troubleshooting to see if it was an input file issue or just what. I'll start with a new BluRay rip and post an update depending on what happens.

    Actually maybe I'll also try encoding some of my own video footage. If I can't get that working I'll upload a file that you can try and see if it works for you. Thanks.
     
  33. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    Just PM me a file to encode and I'll give it a whirl. I have a Blu Ray drive somewhere in the house, but it was given to me after being dropped down stairs. I usually encoded game footage for Youtube. Haven't done that lately though.
     
  34. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    If anyone needs test footage, there's tons of 2D HD trailers (some in 4K) usually taken directly from Blu-ray source and provided as m2ts files here:

    http://www.demo-world.eu/

    I've used the Avatar one for years now for encoder testing, works for me. :)
     
  35. Schmave

    Schmave [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just sent you a PM.
     
  36. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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    I converted it with A's just then. Check your PM. ;) It went from 107mb to 13.5mb in size. Took about 5 secs to convert. Nice video BTW!
     
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  37. cageymaru

    cageymaru [H]ard|News

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  38. Schmave

    Schmave [H]ard|Gawd

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    Thanks! Ok, so I finally figured out what was wrong. I just tried to play a file back in A's and it didn't work, so I then installed the KLite codec pack. After installing that everything worked. So now I just need to figure out the best settings to use for doing a Blu-Ray rip or anything else.

    It's crazy how fast it goes when it does the actual encode. I tried a smaller file from a Blu-Ray I ripped and it was encoding at about 120 fps.
     
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  39. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    The real question is: what's the actual quality like because these GPU accelerated encoders do tend to suck in comparison to the software ones for h.264 and h.265. I mean, even on my old Sandy Bridge i7 I can crank out videos using QuickSync in excess of 400 fps sometimes but the actual resulting video just looks like stir fried shit, so to speak. Even when I use the best possible quality settings yet still get fast hardware accelerated encodes it's nothing like a proper one done with x264 at a slower pace and x265 at literally a molasses in winter type crawl. ;)

    Fast? Definitely. Good quality? That's where the problems come in, at least in my experience. Wouldn't mind seeing some sample encodes if anyone is willing to share some, based on some FHD m2ts high bitrate source material like that Avatar clip I mentioned which can be found here:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/j171wnh9bm5dn9m/Avatar_1080p_trailer.rar?dl=0 (279MB, m2ts from Blu-ray source, high bitrate 26.5Mbps average 11Mbps)

    No it ain't super duper high bitrate but it's a fantastic piece of testing material because of the color saturation which is pretty amazing overall. I used to have one that was slightly different for Avatar but had a peak bitrate of like 51Mbps at one point where basically every pixel on the frame was changed for several seconds. Only other clip I've seen do that sort of peak spike was the one for Tron: Legacy at the point where the one competitor gets derezzed during the Disc Wars scene and his body totally falls apart into all those bits, that really sets off the bitrate something crazy.