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Help with Xonar DG and Grado SR80i

B

Bladestorm

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
1,232
Not knowing anything about headphones, I was told that the best ones for listening to Metal were the Grado SR80i. I bought a pair today and I'm not too thrilled with them. I've got them hooked up to an Asus Xonar DG sound card. Of all the presets "S-Rock" sounds the best, but that's not saying much. I tried creating a custom preset, but I'm new to this, and this was the best I could come up with. It sounds better than "S-Rock", but it's still missing something. Any advice?

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Try disabling GX and turn on HF. I had a DG for a while and listen to metal. I found I enjoyed music much more when I stopped dinking with the EQ.
 
Should I leave the EQ at default?

Edit: Nevermind, I didn't realize HF does that for me.
 
In my experience the DG is a pretty bad card to begin with...so if music sounds bad it's NOT the headphones...especially considering you're using Grados.

If you have the money I'd say anything by Omega or Creative...even on their low-end...would be a considerable upgrade from the DG.

Many people would consider this an opinion but from my listening experience and other people I know the DG is just a turd of a card. Period. Most people don't notice this because they're either use to bad audio or think their cheap $30 gaming headphones are high-end and produce "good" sound.

If it's any consideration I find even my onboard audio to sound 10x better, especially in the lower end (bass) and quick response which is important for fast guitar riffs and drum solos of heavy metal.

Just my advice and take it as you wish...but I PROMISE if you get even the $30 cheap Creative you WILL hear the difference!
 
JoeUser said:
In my experience the DG is a pretty bad card to begin with...so if music sounds bad it's NOT the headphones...especially considering you're using Grados.

If you have the money I'd say anything by Omega or Creative...even on their low-end...would be a considerable upgrade from the DG.

Many people would consider this an opinion but from my listening experience and other people I know the DG is just a turd of a card. Period. Most people don't notice this because they're either use to bad audio or think their cheap $30 gaming headphones are high-end and produce "good" sound.

If it's any consideration I find even my onboard audio to sound 10x better, especially in the lower end (bass) and quick response which is important for fast guitar riffs and drum solos of heavy metal.

Just my advice and take it as you wish...but I PROMISE if you get even the $30 cheap Creative you WILL hear the difference!
Click to expand...

Gotta say I went from a Xonar DG to a X-Fi XtremeGamer refurb that I bought for $20 and I like the X-Fi much better than the DG. I initially bought the X-Fi because the Asus jack sensing doesn't work correctly if you boot the computer with headphones plugged in, but overall I like the sound much better and the non-amped X-Fi plays much louder with my headsets compared to the headphone amped DG.

Also the Asus drivers for the DG are horrible. Aside from the jack sensing being crap, the GX (EAX emulation) mode that gets defaults to ON doesn't actually work and caused numerous games to crash for me. Heck, GX on Asus cards has been shit for two years and they still feel the need to advertise EAX support and keep it enabled as a default option without ever fixing it. The Asus Smart Volume controls work like hell and cause all sorts of clicking and weirdness.
 
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I had heard nothing but praise about the card which is why I bought it, but now I'm starting to agree with you two. Guess I'll start looking for something else.

Thanks
 
Bladestorm said:
I had heard nothing but praise about the card which is why I bought it, but now I'm starting to agree with you two. Guess I'll start looking for something else.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Don't listen to them, they're just whiners that'll never be fully satisfied with anything. My friend has it and it sounds MUCH better than his realtek onboard.
 
Bladestorm said:
I had heard nothing but praise about the card which is why I bought it, but now I'm starting to agree with you two. Guess I'll start looking for something else.

Thanks
Click to expand...

The DG is good for <$20 and better than a lot of onboard solutions. Past that, I don't think the car lives up to a lot of the hype. I think many people are stuck with a years old hatred for Creative Labs and just look to heap praise on anyone selling a sound card at a reasonable price. Also I was really disappointed that the headphone amp in the DG drives both fo my headsets worse than the non amped X-Fi :eek:

I think Creative drivers are pretty good now. I didn't feel the need to mess with anything except turning CMSS 3D off and turning the Crysalizer on. I haven't thought about it in months now, it just works.
 
I'm just trying to figure out if it's the card or the 'Grado sound' you don't like. have you listened to them with other sources?

Here's the frequency response (FR) of SR80i vs. Beyerdynamic DT770. I compared it to the DT770 because it looks like you're EQing the FR into a V, which is common in Beyer cans.

You've probably done the research, but Grados have a rather distinct sound. Very mids/treble-centric, with rolled off, but punchy bass. Their drivers are very quick, which tends to make them sound nice and precise with fast music. That's why they're recommended for metal; I don't know of anything in that price range that has the same quickness. Plenty of people (including me) think electric guitars sound amazing with Grados, too.

In my experience, Grados tend to sound boring/flat/lifeless if they are starved of current. I have not heard them on a DG (just my STX, which sounds mostly fine to me), so I don't know if that is what is happening. They tend to be pretty easy to drive even from portable sources. Proper current gives them better punch and impact, though.

I wasn't able to find a reliable measurement of the DG's output impedance, but judging by other Xonar cards, it's probably ~11ohm. That's slightly underdamped by most preferences, but I know of at least one (Grado fan) amp designer who thinks ~10ohm sounds better than (the more ideal) near-zero ohm. Severely underdamped (~50ohm or more) sounds fuzzy/warm with even less bass deep bass than normal to me (which doesn't sound like your issue).

So... I'm not sure this is very helpful, but it could be reasons why other than the DG being a bad card.
 
the op is asking for assistance for hardware he owns.
 
I'm somewhat disappointed with my SR80i's, too, but I wouldn't call them dull or flat. On the contrary, they're just too thin and harsh. I highly doubt the problem is your sound card. Whether I'm using my shit onboard audio or $200 external DAC/amp, the sound signature is the same. People tend to grossly overstate the effect of sound cards/DACs. A good one will give you that extra 5-10% in sound quality -- the fine little details you might've missed before, and maybe eliminate hissing and crackling -- but it's not going to make your speakers or cans suddenly sound like a whole new product. Now, a good headphone amp can make that type of difference with high-impedance cans -- but Grado's are 32 Ohms, and should not require a powerful amp to sound their best.

I just find it odd that Grado is hailed as the end-all, be-all for heavy rock and metal. That's all I listen to, pretty much, and after enough rave reviews I became convinced I couldn't go wrong with the SR80i. I'm all for punchy, fast, forward sound with strong treble, and love my Klipsch speakers. I was expecting Grado to be Klipsch sitting on my ears, but it really isn't; it's so much grainier, thinner and more overly harsh/tinny (as opposed to just strong) in the treble. Does this description sound anything like the reasons you aren't enjoying your Grado's?

I would definitely wager it's the headphones, and not the sound card, making your music sound unappealing to you. Unfortunately, I've come to learn that speakers and cans are incredibly subjective, with a diverse array of opinions (often fanboys insistent that their preferred model is "by far the best you can get under $500." "clearer sound than the competition at twice the price," etc.). It's possible that you, like I, simply don't enjoy the Grado sound, and there was no way of knowing that without trying them.

EDIT: I did forget one thing that might be of interest to you, before giving up and shipping your cans back to the seller. I found that the stock comfy pads on my SR80i's were having a significant adverse effect on clarity when they first arrived, so I cut holes in them :). Google "Grado quarter mod" and you should be able to locate detailed instructions (which basically just involve slicing a quarter-size circle out of your pads using an Xacto knife).
 
Try plugging them directly into the card, not the front panel. Set the impedance to the highest level. If you've raised the volume in the "mixer" tab on any of the channels, put it back to default - anything above that adds clipping noise.

That's about all I can think of...

I bought both of my sons AH-D2000's and Xonar DG's for Christmas. The Xonars are intended to be stop gaps, but the combo sounds pretty freaking good.
 
The only real advantage of the DG over onboard is that it supports Dolby Headphone while most onboard solutions don't. If you want a gaming card, it is a no-brainer choice over onboard for headphones, but it really isn't designed to be a high quality card for music - hence the low price. If you want a good headphone card for music, you'll have to spend more than $30. I'm not sure why people are bashing its performance in music, and criticizing its quality - what do you expect for $30?
 
Ya, you're gonna need a better sound card with the Grado's. The DG is pretty "bottom of the barrel". The Essence ST did great with my 325is.
 
Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it.

Now for some good news, and some bad. My DG appears to have died. It completely stopped outputting sound. I tried it in two different PC's, and it didn't work in either. That forces me to get a new card now. I'm looking at either the Xonar DX or the X-Fi Titanium. Which one would be the better buy, or are there any other recommendations in that price range?

How about the new Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D THX?
 
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I have Grado sr225i headphones and they sound absolutely amazing with my FiiO E7 AMP/DAC. It plugs in via USB and you can use Foobar in WASAPI mode ask skip all that EQ bull and even bypass the Windows mixer. I've used these for everything from rock, classical, to metal. I am still blown away by the fidelity.

This is my opinion, of course, but I wouldn't mess around with internal sound cards if you care about music audio quality. Others may have had a different experience though.
 
Bladestorm said:
Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it.

Now for some good news, and some bad. My DG appears to have died. It completely stopped outputting sound. I tried it in two different PC's, and it didn't work in either. That forces me to get a new card now. I'm looking at either the Xonar DX or the X-Fi Titanium. Which one would be the better buy, or are there any other recommendations in that price range?

How about the new Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D THX?
Click to expand...

Spec wise the Recon3D doesn't seem all that great, and you can't find any reviews on it anywhere, which is kind of a worrying sign. The DX is a good card, but I don't think it has a headphone amp (which might not matter much for the Grados), so I'd probably lean toward the Titanium HD unless you can swing the freight on the Essence STX.
 
Volume said:
I have Grado sr225i headphones and they sound absolutely amazing with my FiiO E7 AMP/DAC. It plugs in via USB and you can use Foobar in WASAPI mode ask skip all that EQ bull and even bypass the Windows mixer. I've used these for everything from rock, classical, to metal. I am still blown away by the fidelity.

This is my opinion, of course, but I wouldn't mess around with internal sound cards if you care about music audio quality. Others may have had a different experience though.
Click to expand...

Can I use the E7 with my AV-40's too, or just the SR80i? I will be using the AV-40's more than the headphones.
 
Like someone mentioned you have a $20 card maybe you should of invested in one of top tier cards
 
Bladestorm said:
Can I use the E7 with my AV-40's too, or just the SR80i? I will be using the AV-40's more than the headphones.
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I don't know anything about the AV-40's but the only thing I would say about the E7 is that it *might* not be suitable for headphones with super-high impedance. But to remedy that, you can pair it with the E10 docking amp.

I game and listen to music through my E7 and have never looked back.
 
Volume said:
I don't know anything about the AV-40's but the only thing I would say about the E7 is that it *might* not be suitable for headphones with super-high impedance. But to remedy that, you can pair it with the E10 docking amp.
Click to expand...

Isn't the E9 the docking amp? And the E10 is the new DAC/amp combo like the E7?
 
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