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Help with selecting speaker upgrade...

E

essfor

n00b
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Messages
62
Budget – approx. 1000 cdn

Room – 10’x10’
Equipment to be used for PC gaming and for xbox hookup as well as music, and rarely but occasstional for video. Desperately want to have surround sound for gaming.

Current Equipment –
Speaskers - Klipsch 2.1
Sound Card - Audigy 2 ZS

Good evening audio gurus. I’d like to upgrade from my current audio setup. I have a dell 2405fpw and I can hook my xbox straight into it and would like to complement the video with some nice audio surround. I’d like to use the monster digital/optical sound cable. Obviously the current audigy cannot accommodate this desire.

Ok so…

The budget is posted. I’ve been leaning toward getting a home theatre setup but I want to try my hardest to ensure that it will definitely be an upgrade from my current configuration. That said the issue with 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1, I don’t know if its important for me to go with one over the other but I’m more than willing to hear some testimonials…

So, I’d really like to drive surround audio from my pc through the receiver. I’d be willing to upgrade to the audigy4 if that is what it takes. My wet dream is to have everything optical/digital but from what I gather no sound cards out there support this. I would have to go analog into the receiver.

So….tell me what you think regarding how much budget should go to speakers, how much should go to a receiver…..

OR is my position better suited to the Gigaworks 7.1. I’m completely non-biased, In that I will gladly abandon my current preference of going with a HT setup and using the gigaworks setup if for the money the gigaworks outperform an HT setup.

I’m in the midst of researching all of this, checking out e-bay, talking to some friends who are deeply into audio etc…. So any help is great….

Warm Regards,
 
Lets see..1000 CDN is about 800$ US, so for that you could get a decent enough HT. I would recomend a Yamaha reciever, with maybe some Polk Audio speaker. As for getting from the soundcard to the reciever, you just need some converters from a 1/8th inch mini jack to RCA, which you can pick up easily from radio shack.
I'm currently running a denon reciever, which puts out to a 6.1 system of Boston Audio speakers, and I love it a ton. Music sounds great, but I still really want a DD compatible card.
The place where you are gonna want to spend extra money is in the speakers. A decent 200$ ish reciever is gonna be fine for all but the most high quality speakers.
I hope this helps.
 
It's time for you to graduate from PC speaker mode. Get a receiver and an XBOX High definition pack (I assume you already have this if you are sending component to your 2405). Send the optical out from the HighDef pack directly into the reciever. The same goes for your sound card, send the headphone out (you'll need a Y-adapter), or optical if the soundcard has it, to the 2nd optical input on your reciever.

Then get 5 speakers and a sub and you're set. If you're on a tight budget, I recommend the fluance AV-HTB, nothing will sound better for the price.

As for the receiver, pick up an Onkyo refurb from ecost or J&R.
 
Thank you for the info so far.

As far as I know the digital out on the creative speakers, its not multichannel right? I'm really stupified on this one as I haven't been able to find out a definitive answer.

As far as speakers, ideally I'd like to have bookshelf all around since I'll be putting centres and the two fronts on my desk.


Please feel free to put exact model no.s!!! thanks

As for receivers, what inputs should i look for? How many digital ins etc.... Also I'm very noobish as to how to configure setups for surround on my pc via a receiver from the 1/8" to RCAs...what kind of inputs will handle that on the receiver.

Thanks.
 
You can just buy at the local Radio Shack - or whatever you have in Canadia - adaptors that will break out a 1/8" miniplug into a pair of RCA male jacks, so you can easily connect up your sound card to the 5.1 analog input on whatever receiver that you get.

As for receivers, I'd say look for one that has at least 3 digital inputs. Nowadays, this really won't be too much of a problem for you to find though =] You will need to find one that has 5.1/6.1/7.1 analog inputs, if you plan to be able to play multichannel sound from games, otherwise you'll be stuck with 2.0 .


For speakers, Paradigm is Canadian I believe, and their small bookshelves are well-regarded for the money. You could probably buy 5 Titans or Atoms and then a low-end sub to complete the package nicely.
 
I got this from the creative website:

Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS On-Board Connectors

Line level out (Front / Side / Rear / Center / Subwoofer)
Digital Out for 5.1 support (6-channel SPDIF output to Creative digital speakers

Does this imply that the digital out is for Creative speakers only? Is the SPDIF out on the Audigy 2 incompatible with a receiver. I just think it would be nice to have one cable run fom my card to a receiver rather than 5+.

As for the line level outs...I suspsect this is what I'll be using for my cabling to my receiver. Do most modern receivers contain discrete inputs for front/side/rear/center/sub? I realize that I'll be using 1/8" to RCA to connect the sound card - - -

Paradigm eh? I'll look into it, Titans/Atoms, I've found the vendor site, and I'll be doing some research but which are better titans or atoms???

Any specific model types for the receivers? etc etc... thankyas.
 
You should consider Energy's too.. they are a Canadian company... I know someone that got some good prices when he was in Canada compared to the US.

They are also in your hometown. Toronto.. nice city btw.

http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/
 
Dang, the energy speakers sure are nice.

The encores look amazing but might not agree with my budget. I found the act6's for 1000 cdn, and yamaha 5740s are going for just over 200cdn on ebay right now.

Anyone have experience with the act6?
 
essfor said:
Dang, the energy speakers sure are nice.

The encores look amazing but might not agree with my budget. I found the act6's for 1000 cdn, and yamaha 5740s are going for just over 200cdn on ebay right now.

Anyone have experience with the act6?
Click to expand...

yeah.. find some older Take-5.2's. You can get the set minus the sub on ebay for $200. So you should be able to find them in Toronto pretty cheap. You might also consider the Velodyne set in the [H]ot deals section for $159 w/ free shipping... I am not sure about to Toronto tho.
 
Get the Athena Micra 6s. They are dirt cheap on ebay and will be far better than anything else for the price. Just search for Athena Micra and you'll get 6-7 examples, many people dont know of the brand so they dont search for them. Match them with a decent reciever and you'll have a kickin system. Not much sense to put anything bigger in a 10x10 room..
 
Athena is owned by PSB, for what it's worth.

...at least PSB has a rather impressive reputation, and Athena has already got a good rep for their bang for the buck AS-F2 floorstanders.


I have the Yamaha BP4500 surround set, and they are a pretty decent value for the $250 and less USD bracket. Only downside is you have to be careful of the surface you place them on..the thin cabinets transfer lots of vibration. I fixed that through use of some neoprene-like damping material I bought a while ago.
 
thanks for the reccomendation regarding the micras.

As for a receiver, can you give me some model numbers? I was thinking the yamaha htr 5740 since it supports 6.1.?
 
Shoponkyo.com has refurb TX-SR302 for $119 shipped. Sign up for a membership at clubonkyo.com for a $10 bonus credit off the $129 price. It is a pretty limited unit, with only two digital (optical and coax) inputs, spring-clip speaker terminals, and only composite video switching. However, it has multichannel analog inputs and an adjustable sub crossover. Those are much more important features. Besides, if it is strictly for a computer audio rig, who needs video switching and extra digital inputs?
 
The Fosgate passive monitor deal over at http://accessories4less.com/ might be a good deal. With free shipping on orders over $100 (probably not to Canada) and coupon code: "APRIL20" knocking off %20, you could get a decent 5 nearfield channels for ~$400

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=878530

FOS-FA51.0/PR x 2 $287.98
FOS-FA52.0 $87.99
$375.97

Then you need a subwoofer.

P.S. It's USA only. Got a contact in Buffalo, NY?
 
Athena speakers are the verge of complete crap. They are the bottom of the line from the company in scarborough that builds Mirage < top of the line Energy < middle of the line and Athena < bottom of the line . I have heard them in several places and they are overly hyped in the MID and SUB frequencys. Put those athenas in the same category as SPAM spend your hard earned money else where. The Energy C3 was pretty damn good for 200 bucks a bit bright but good in that price range. Stay out of Future Shop man :p
 
madmike said:
Athena speakers are the verge of complete crap. They are the bottom of the line from the company in scarborough that builds Mirage < top of the line Energy < middle of the line and Athena < bottom of the line . I have heard them in several places and they are overly hyped in the MID and SUB frequencys. Put those athenas in the same category as SPAM spend your hard earned money else where. The Energy C3 was pretty damn good for 200 bucks a bit bright but good in that price range. Stay out of Future Shop man :p
Click to expand...
wow. yeah I'm sure they are not top of the line.
Before I purchased speakers I did ALOT of reading and I spent alot of time on avsforums and they rave aboutthem in a price/performance way. I've also read a number of reviews online from other sights about them and again they always received high regards. I own the Athena AS-B1's which I currently use for rears, adn the AS-C1 which i (obviously) use as a center.
A little story for you: someone had accidentally hit my (A) (B) speaker selector button my receiver which disabled my front L/R(it was outputting those channels to the (B) speakers which don't exist). I didn't notice this for almost a week until I tried to listen to some music in stereo mode, my center was creating such a wide sound field that I didn't notice the lacking FL/FR. I had watched at least one movie that week as well. Now this may just be a slam against my rather lacking FL/FR at present. Either way I'm happy enough with my athenas that my fronts will be replaced with the AS-B2's as soon as my wallet refills after my latest spending spree.

Anyway, it all comes down to the fact that speakers are very subjective and you should really go out and listen to as many as you can. Being from TO will be a great advantage as you should have a number of shops to choose from. Bring your own music that you are familiar with and maybe a dvd or two and spend some time listening and find what you like. Some people prefer brighter more forward speakers others prefer more laid back speakers and others somewhere in between. In the end it comes down to what YOU like and what makes YOU happy. The best klipsch system in the world may sound like crap to you if you dont like their sound signature.
 
Axiom is an internet-direct speaker maker, and is based in Manitoba. Give them a call and see what they say.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/en-ca/

You could also take a look at studio monitors. I'd try for those, because nearfield listening on home theater speakers can be tricky. M-Audio makes some 5.1 sets. Try Ecost.com. I know they use border-free, but I'm not sure how much it costs.
 
Ecost.com has some nice looking systems, do you think the ONKYO HTIBs are worth what they are asking for on there?


As for the axioms, they look great but I think that they are out of my budget.

One of my main goals to significantly upgrade from my klipsch 2.1s and to have surround sound. - - - If the Athena's do the trick then fantastic. I do want to be weary of the near field issue as well. The Micra's are going for 350 on *yech* future shop. If the Micra's are in the same boat as my Klipsch 2.1's then I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and go up to the energy line.
 
I found athenas to be great bang for the buck.

However, like all cheap hi-fi gear, their speakers are VERY placement dependant. Not as bad as my BR-1s, but bad enough that it's easy to bloat up the sound.

Also keep in mind if you are using shelf speakers and do not have a properly damped stand, there will be some bloat to the sound as well. A common cost-cutting measure in "budget" speakers is thin cabinets, so they end up transferring vibration too well. In the case of cheap stands, they will color the sound some if enough vibration is transmitted down them. Just a nice peice of neoprene between the speaker and stand is enough...hell just trim a mousepad...$2, and if it turnsout that wasn't the issue, oh well it's not like two bucks is that badd a loss :)
 
Stinn ....

I am sure you are happy with them, a lot of people are. It does not change the fact they are crap. In that price range or very near it, the Energy is a much better choice the Axiom is a better choice Used speakers in an audio salon are a better choice. I was actually just sparked off when i read this post because of the hassle i had taking a set back with my nieghbour who didnt listen to me and bought these from 'tada' Future Shop. Thats a whole other story.

Getting back to the point. None of the Athenas can be played at realistic SPL levels. They have a known tweeter compression issue at higher spl levels. I am guessing bad crossover design. These speakers never come close to disappearing as they add so much of themselves to material. Center channel dispersion is great you say? Good stuff because thats about as good as it gets. If you wanna watch big block buster movies at home these arent the speakers. Want to listen to live recordings with large dynamic range? These arent the speakers. In that price range you can do better. Sometimes from names you never heard of or that rarely get reviewed.

I say get the Energy's or The Axxiom. Polk Audio. Nht c3 is about 400 dollars there abouts and will Decimate the athenas in anything but an auditorium. Better imaging, amazing low response into usable sub frequency at low volume levels, fantastic crossover build and 10 year old girl flat response in the near field. And as GodsMadClown stated going for studio monitors is not a bad idea at all, as near field is what they are built for. I use these for my comp.....

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/madmike2/right.jpg

I am not trying to be a dyck i am just trying to save someone from throwing money down the drain. Would you let anyone you know buy the Bose Lifestyle system? Because these dont sound much better, they just sound bigger.

Found these in another post, i have heard of them from the CES but i havent had a chance to hear them. (ya i listen to a lot of speakers ) Investigate these http://hometheaterinfo.com/hsu_speakers.htm
 
The Athena speakers are availible in Bestbuy. He should put them on a credit card, audition them, and take them back if unsatisfied. Check the return policy. It might onbly be good for store credit.
 
Good point. Although thats what the fight with future shop was about. They really didnt want to take them back. They went over EVeRYTHING with a fine tooth comb. Try that i say. Find a store with a return policy and just try em out. The sound in the store wont really tell you alot as your amp and your room will change many things.
 
Hello all...

Brass tacks for me is that I want something that will be better than my klipsch 2.1s

The athena's are on sale for 370 right now, pretty good price, but if its crap then its crap. If they are no different than the klipsch 2.1s then there is no sense in getting them. Another interesting poitn is near-field listening. If I can get monitors and a sub and am amp for $1000 then I would pursue that.

However, I'm not looking for audiophile level stuff, I know that with a $1000.00 budget I'm not going to come close to it. I am looking for quality, I know that this is a very subjective topic....

Madmike, I see the ACT6 are going for 1G at baybloor right now.
 
I could not say that without lying. I have heard good things about them, things along the line of "these are the best small form factor speakers i have heard, right up there with BluSky"

And you just said 1000 ?? Dude you can buy the Rokit 8 powered monitors AND the Dbx parametric eq for that from Long and Mcquade. DEFINITE Destruction of the athenas in any small room. NUCLEAR in near field, thats not even a fight dude. I use them right now. Granted i have a 12 foot by 25 foot room and am playing them on the horizontal till i get rid of this stupid futon. Hmmmm i started monologing there. I have a nice Mid field rear reflection off a live wall which makes these sound even bigger then they are.

Actually the dude at long and Mcquade also had a demo Yorkville sub they wanted to sell. You might negotiate the rokits and the sub to for a grand ..... that would be awesome. Ill have to invite you over when i finish these open baffle panels :p . Get a secong opinion :D
 
Wow buy the 12 inch :) forget anything else i said, thats a whole upper mid-fi grade speaker pack for 1100 bucks about. And i know the subs slam, i have heard THOSE in stereo pair at Cheneys Lounge in the ViP room. If i remember correctly it was those with some forgettable Mission towers ( forgetable as in i dont remember the name) or were they smaller stands i cant recall. I remember Tchaicovsky though. Sounded extremely FULL.
 
Right on.....
Ok so....Madmike....

For a grand, or potentially a bit over...What do you recommend for me to use in my computer room, its approximatly 12x12....

Hit me.
 
With active monitors, you don't need a receiver. Why do you want a receiver? Source switching or radio listening?

Active speakers can give very good quality for the dollar, because the manufactuer can do cost-effective driver/amp matching.

Do you care about surrround? Do you watch lots of movies or care about positional audio in FPS gaming? If not, then 2.0 or 2.1 is a very smart move.
 
Oh, well, I wanted to run the xbox straight into the speakers via the receiver and I wanted to run my computer straight into the receivers.

Regardless, looks like i need to become conversant about monitor systems.
 
If you really need source switching, I'd not look so closely at active monitors, because at that point you are doubling up the number of amps/DACs that you are buying for naught. I'd say start with a good receiver in the 300$ range, then add a couple speakers from there.

A good start might be a set like this:

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=stock&product=60.1

Then you could tack on a nice sub like the SVS PB12-ISD and you'd have a very decent 2.1 system.

This is assuming that you don't mind a 2.1, but in a room as small as yours, I don't think that that would be a bad choice at all. I just don't think that there are really that many cheap systems out there for less than a grand without compromising something. At least with this system, you wouldn't be compromising bass extension and output with a sub like the SVS =]
 
Positional audio is important to me, very important, so I do want to go with a surround system.

Madmike, when you say go with the 12s, do you mean the HSU VT-12s with the STF-1 sub? What receiver should I be pairing that up with?
 
ARe you using your PC as a HTPC ??

Because if you are i would suggest buying That Hsu Set, like i said i have only heard the Subs with some Missions.
 
I'm going to be using it mostly for gaming, but this will be my primary source for listening to music.

I found a place downtown that sells the Hsu's, I'm going to pair them with the STF-1.

Just need to figure out which Receiver I can go with. Cheapest possible 6.1 receiver with an optical input.
 
Let me know your opinion on them. Set everything on them flat. I hate when those sales guys crank shiite into the stratosphere.

I am building some needles and an OB project so now that you reminded me i might track down a dealer and listen to that 12 inch sub again :D
 
6.1 is unnecessary. 5.1 is really all one needs.

Try shoponkyo.com. There is a SR-TX302 for $120 shipped, after signing up for a membership at clubonkyo.com. The rest should go towards your speakers.
 
Yeah....

I just spent some dough on the 2405, but I'm definitely planning on getting the VT-12s with the sub. $800 total for that...

It is a 6.1 system so i may as welll get a 6.1 capable receiver...

As for the receiver, I see the onkyo TX-SR502 is 6.1 for 199.99 but I think that clubonkyo is only for Americans.

Any bad news regarding the yamaha htr 5740 ?
 
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