Help with a gaming mouse

[Frosteh]

I got my Razer Diamonback yesterday and its simply the best mouse i've ever used, it even beats the Razer Boomslang, my previous mouse (higher DPI) it has better tracking than a ball mouse and can update fast enough to keep the movement smooth and the accuracy as close to 1600 DPI as possible.

I set it up well, got the drivers on correctly, set the USB polling rate to 1000hz (reports on average of 750hz (~1.3ms)

Razer remains the best series of gaming mice I've ever used, I'd definatly recomend it to anyone serious about FPS gaming.

Saying its the fault of gamers that a mouse cannot handle being picked up of the mat and re-sat is totaly rediculas, changing the sensitivity or enabling mouse acceleration is not an acceptable option for a range of mice which is supposed to be some of the best mice around.

I dont know how much the MX1000 costs and i dont really care, if its a showdown between that and the razer diamonback i think i'd go with the faster, more accurate mouse without design flaws.

 

[thedude42]

turning up the mouse sensativity to fix this problem doesn't change the fact that this flaw occurs in the MX1000 and not in the MX700 or earlier models, period.

 

[Terpfen]

You can turn up the sensitivity. You can do it through windows.

He means that he wants an option between low or high sensitivity. If the MX1000 has that pick-up problem, then it can't be operated effectively at low sensitivity.

 

[Dan_D]

He means that he wants an option between low or high sensitivity. If the MX1000 has that pick-up problem, then it can't be operated effectively at low sensitivity.

I play on a higher sensitivity. So I have no problems. The mouse is fast and accurate. Also when I do pickup the mouse I've learned not to pick it up as far off the mat to move it.

 

[[BB] Rick James]

I often pick up my mouse to reposition it. I have the MX1000 and I have no issues with it what so ever. I'm not sure if everyone saw the video with that nut sack picking up the mouse very rapidly and going back and forth. If you saw taht video you'll know what I'm talking about. That video represented nothing that anyone would even do with their mouse while gaming. Anyone know if that video is still out there?

 

[dderidex]

Look here, wireless RF mouse has a max USB report rate of 125hz.

Wired mouse - say, Razer Boomslang - has a max USB report rate of 1000hz.

Figure that out.

Any action you take on a wireless mouse can have up to an 8ms lag time to it. Any action with a wired mouse at 1000hz as a 1ms lag time to it.

And that's *strictly* the interface!

You also gotta figure in the time it takes to convert the data from the mouse's digital sensor to an RF signal, transmit it to the base station, convert it back to a digital signal, and then it can go on its way.

Again, we are talking about 4 or 5ms - this is strictly physics, no arguing with it.

Add in basic background electronic noise causing some interference with the signal, and you are easily talking 20-25ms total lag that an RF mouse has *MORE* than with a corded mouse.

And if you are gaming at 100fps, each frame spits up on the screen every 10ms, so 25ms lag means you move the mouse and 2.5 frames later, the game reflects that movement on screen.

That's why serious gamers don't use wireless mice. And that's why Logitech doesn't advertise the MX1000 or MX700 as gaming mice! Seriously, look at the MX1000 page and the MX700 page. See ANY reference to 'gaming' ANYWHERE? Now, take a look at their corded mouse page and the their MX510 page. Again, this is ALL ON THEIR OFFICIAL SITE! "The Red Mouse for Gamers.", "You get the ultimate in mouse precision with no lag, and the gaming-tuned software drivers will help you dominate the competition.", "Logitech's gaming-tuned MouseWare® software!", etc.

I don't see how you can get any clearer than that. If LOGITECH considers corded mice better than cordless mice for gaming, and they SELL AND MAKE THE MICE, I dunno, I'd *think* they'd know what they are talking about.

(BTW, personal opinion time. While the MX510 is a competent gaming mouse, and I wouldn't feel the need to gouge my eyes out while using it like I do with the MS Intellimouse 4.0, the Razer Diamondback DOES pwn it in every measurable way. It's not as comfortable ergonomically, true, but it makes up for that by being twice as accurate and thus requiring half as much movement as the MX510. One of those 'quantity has a quality all its own' things - the Diamondback ends up coming out on top.)

 

[thedude42]

i saw the video, and you need to see both videos to see what the problem is.

the first time he uses the MX1000 he gently picks it up and places it down to show that on first glance, it works properly. then he does the rapid pick-up-put-down test to show that there is enough of a delay to cause the mouse to not function.

i saw this, and thought the same thing... "why in the hell would anyone do that with their mouse?!?!"

then i saw the second video, the one with the MX700, where he did the EXACT SAME THING with that mouse, and it responded flawlessly, as if it where a regular ball mouse when he did the rapid pick up and drop, pick up and drop test.

the point he was making was that there was a specific, repeatable delay lasting about 1/4 of a second, and the problem DOES NOT exist with the other logitec MX series mice. that is the problem people are wanting logitec to address, and no one disputes that normal day to day use is hindered. some crazy people just don't want that 1/4 second delay in their $70 mouse that doesn't happen with a $10 ball mouse (imagine that).

 

[thedude42]

That's why serious gamers don't use wireless mice.

serious, meaning what? desire to be professional gammers like Fata1ty?

your numbers are interesting, good point, but the problems with the logitec mouse range in the 250ms range, far more than the numbers you are quoting. one of the reasons so many sites and magazines reccomend logitec for gamming is because they were the first company to synchronize their wireless mouse radio to the rate of the USB port, so for the "non-serious" gamer, the logitec was the obvious choice for a wireless alternative. i guarentee that logitec relies on the gamming community for a great deal of success with this line of product because of this fact.

 

[[Retaliation]]

well..i must be gifted or something...because i havent experienced 1 single issue with my mouse...no lagg..jumps..bumps...swings...flings...zings...ect...ect..the only thing i did when i first fired it up was to turn off mouse acceleration...been flawless since..but ill be honest...i was leary when i bought it...after the freakin horrid 2 days i spent trying to get the mx900 blue tooth working..(its utter garbage)..so when i bought my 1000 i bought an extended warrenty(10$)...so if i do experience future issues...i can return it for a updated model

 

[Netrat33]

^^^
No problems with my mx1000 mouse. It's SWEET! Very VERY responsive. Highly recommend it for gaming if you are looking into a new mouse. Feels really comfortable too. For mx1000 nay sayers, Get over it. The old "wireless is crap" days are gone. You'll see just as many people giving this mouse praise for gaming. And yes I'm a serious gamer. That statement is just stupid.

 

[dderidex]

^^^
The old "wireless is crap" days are gone. You'll see just as many people giving this mouse praise for gaming. And yes I'm a serious gamer. That statement is just stupid.

Really? I must have missed the notice where the laws of physics were repealed.

Sorry, but the MX1000 still uses the same RF frequency as any other wireless mouse, is limited to the same report rate, and has the same conversion latency.

Again - look at Logitech's site. They MAKE the mouse, I don't know how you can get anymore of an authority than that!

THEY don't consider it a "gamer's mouse" - they consider the MX510 their gaming mouse.

I mean, if the MAKER of a mouse doesn't consider it a gaming mouse, and you are disagreeing....I dunno, who is making the stupid statements, here?

 

[thedude42]

Really? I must have missed the notice where the laws of physics were repealed.

Sorry, but the MX1000 still uses the same RF frequency as any other wireless mouse, is limited to the same report rate, and has the same conversion latency.

ummm, no it isn't.

this is what i pulled from this site

"...For a cordless mouse, the refresh rate is always directly related to the performance – the higher the refresh rate, the smoother the mouse movement. Unlike the older RF technology which could only transmit signals at 40Hz, equivalent to the speed of a PS/2 port, the new RF technology used in the MX700 can transmit signals at a much faster rate of 125Hz, equivalent to the maximum speed a USB port can handle. This means that there is virtually an "invisible" USB cord between your mouse and the receiver. You will no longer experience "laggy" mouse movement that scared many users away from some of the older cordless mice, and you won't miss out on a bit of the optical performance or accuracy."

i used this one because it was the first google pulled up. besides this earth V site i just found in the search, maximum PC had the MX700 on its gear of the year list LAST YEAR for the same exact reasons.

 

[jyi786]

Look here, wireless RF mouse has a max USB report rate of 125hz.

Wired mouse - say, Razer Boomslang - has a max USB report rate of 1000hz.

Figure that out.

Hmm. If my memory serves me right, this statement is incorrect, although it's very close to the point. I can understand what you are trying to say, but I think the facts are slightly skewed.

Any wireless RF mouse has a max USB report rate of 125hz. So does a wired mouse, let's say MX510.

The only way that you can get around this is if you hack the registry/the USB INI or SYS file to get the USB ports to report at 250Hz or 500Hz, and ONLY on a USB 2.0 capable controller. You can find out this registry hack floating around the forums. The MX510 does 250Hz, the MX500, 310, and Intellimouse Explorer 3.0A does 500Hz.

Nevertheless, you will always have a lag associated with RF wireless mice; it takes time for the RF receiver to get the signal from the mouse. With a wired mouse, you won't get this delay. And I've experienced the lag time between the MX1000 and the MX500; the difference is extremely miniscule, but it's there. I actually switched back to my trusty MX500 due to the issue with the MX1000 (same as the issue in the videos posted).

 

[Netrat33]

Again - look at Logitech's site. They MAKE the mouse, I don't know how you can get anymore of an authority than that!

THEY don't consider it a "gamer's mouse" - they consider the MX510 their gaming mouse.

I mean, if the MAKER of a mouse doesn't consider it a gaming mouse, and you are disagreeing....I dunno, who is making the stupid statements, here?

How long ago did the mx510 come out? 2 years ago roughly right....how often do you think they update they're old products on there website?

Ever think, logitech considers this there "flagship" mouse? It serves...I don't know..all needs?!

I mean I don't see it saying "awesome for photoshop" or "awesome for surfing the web"
Until you use it, you really can't knock it.

 

[thedude42]

Nevertheless, you will always have a lag associated with RF wireless mice; it takes time for the RF receiver to get the signal from the mouse. With a wired mouse, you won't get this delay. And I've experienced the lag time between the MX1000 and the MX500; the difference is extremely miniscule, but it's there. I actually switched back to my trusty MX500 due to the issue with the MX1000 (same as the issue in the videos posted).

yup, i totally agree, RF mice have some degree of lag. good to see someone finally speaking up about their different experience between the early and later models of the MX mice... the MX700 was when they boosted the radio to 125MHz, making it the prefered gamming mouse over the earlier ones.

that's why in this case the lag of RF mice is not the issue with the MX1000. the problem is a completely seperate hardware specific issue, which i don't think everyone realizes.

 

[thedude42]

Ever think, logitech considers this there "flagship" mouse? It serves...I don't know..all needs?!

I mean I don't see it saying "awesome for photoshop" or "awesome for surfing the web"
Until you use it, you really can't knock it.

LOL! good point.

 

[Hom@R]

I have been using an MX1000 since October and have NEVER noticed any issues with gaming. Take it for what it's worth but that is my personal experience.

 

[K1llaB]

LOL! good point.

I'm sure the most vocal against wireless also complain about Viper SRT 10 performance because of what they read in Car & Driver....

Does anyone know if Mousepoint sw allows you to create custom button mappings to keystroke based on .exe as Intellipoint? If not, I'm gonna give my wife this MX1000 & get another MS mouse. The Explorer 3a is what we have now. i'll get a 4.

 

[dderidex]

The Razer Diamondback does.

In fact, you can bind lengthy key macros to any of the mouse buttons - it handles things like button down events, button up events, you can set 'advanced' mode on a button that allows a combination macro when pressed or "on the fly sensitivity" adjustment when used in conjunction with the mouse wheel, etc.

 

[Goaliexam]

I just got my MX1000 yesterday and it doesn't have the lag issues. I've done extensive reading about this mouse across many forums, and I think that the issues that it has been tagged with were only in the first batch (revision 1.3), and not the newer batches (such as 1.4). I wish people would stop heartlessly bashing this good mouse just because they got one of the first made and it has a small problem. I'm sure if you return it to the store and get a new one then it won't have the same problem.

 

[K1llaB]

goalie- i agree, i havent noticed any lag. granted im not the uber "hard core gamer" that everyone claims to be. i like the heavyness & tracking better than the MS Explorer's.

Do you know if you can program the buttons per .exe as you can w/ Intellipoint? No one seems to be able to answer this. If not, i guess i'll have to go back to MS.

 

[thedude42]

I just got my MX1000 yesterday and it doesn't have the lag issues. I've done extensive reading about this mouse across many forums, and I think that the issues that it has been tagged with were only in the first batch (revision 1.3), and not the newer batches (such as 1.4). I wish people would stop heartlessly bashing this good mouse just because they got one of the first made and it has a small problem. I'm sure if you return it to the store and get a new one then it won't have the same problem.

that's good to know. sounds like logitec is definitely on top of things.

is there a way to check the revision number on the box? that would definitely go a long way to help people have confidence in their purchase.

 

[pbguy434]

I got my mom an MX1000 for Christmas, my brother an MX510, and I got a Razer Diamondback...I must say that the Razer out performs both those mice in my needs. The fully programmable macro buttons are pretty nifty.

 

[Deleted member 12106]

I use an MS intelli mouse exploder 3.0a, on my 2nd one, I wore out the fire button and the feet off of my last one.

 

[sculelos]

I just use the MX510 for the one reason that it works, trackes stuff perfectly and has 5 extra programmable buttions, I know the MX1000 and Diamond Razorback both have better procession, but I can't tell the difference anyways and I like the MX510 buttion placement, when it all comes down to it, they are all great mice and some people will like different ones better, it dosn't mean any of the others are less good it's just that you like a particular model better.

 

[thedude42]

it dosn't mean any of the others are less good it's just that you like a particular model better.

yeah, personal preference goes a long way with your gamming input hardware, just ask anyone who is a diehard Halo fan and has their analog controller settings tweaked to the sensativity that's "just right" for them. hell, ask a skateboarder how they like to set up their stick, wheel size, truck tightness, you'll get 100 different answers from 100 different people. computer gamming is no diferent (key binds, brightness, gamma, driver tweaks, and mouse sensativity , etc)

you can't deny what the hardware is capeable of, but some people will never like X hardware unless they really try to change their philosophy/behaviour towards what is different about X hardware from what they like.

reviews are merely suggestions, but experience is priceless.