Help me pick my next distro

[lopoetve]

Hopefully no flame wars in here...

Having not used Linux at home in a few years (gaming ftw -> windows), I'm finally ready to dig back in... Need this box for a bit of graphical work, programming (c / perl / fortran), and general life (I used to use linux primarily). I'm used to RHEL, AIX 5.3, and HP-UX at work, but I definitely don't want to go that way at home.

So far, I've tried:
Ubuntu (Nvidia drivers don't work, and apt-get is also borked in terms of 3d acceleration). I'd like to play UT on there occasionally, so probably not this one.

Gentoo (Sound card problems). Never could get Alsa to compile and work, went around in circles for weeks on the gentoo forums.

SuSE. Worked perfectly, but bloated as hell... even paired down, the prospect of fixing all the 'suseisms' and getting things back closer to AIX/Unixesque styles gives me a headache.

Are there any I'm missing I should think about?

 

[Dangman]

Simply Mepis
Sabayon Linux
Debian
Slackware
Fedora Core

I've had great success with SimplyMepis and Sabayon Linux. Though it is somewhat bloated.....

 

[lopoetve]

Simply Mepis
Sabayon Linux
Debian
Slackware
Fedora Core

I've had great success with SimplyMepis and Sabayon Linux. Though it is somewhat bloated.....

Debian and I have a particular relationship that can be described as utter loathing and general disgust (I'll leave you to assign the adjective to the appropriate noun), although a lot of that was from a set of bad experiences in 01 with it in an enterprise environment (and a nasty sysadmin).

I used to be a Slackware fiend, but it's getting a bit out of date and I'm hesitant to try upgrading everything to the point I can do what I want, given my most recent experiences. I may try again.

How's Fedora for bloat?

Never heard of the other two, I'll look them up.

 

[Dangman]

Debian and I have a particular relationship that can be described as utter loathing and general disgust (I'll leave you to assign the adjective to the appropriate noun), although a lot of that was from a set of bad experiences in 01 with it in an enterprise environment (and a nasty sysadmin).

I used to be a Slackware fiend, but it's getting a bit out of date and I'm hesitant to try upgrading everything to the point I can do what I want, given my most recent experiences. I may try again.

How's Fedora for bloat?

Never heard of the other two, I'll look them up.

Haven't used Fedora myself. So can't tell ya much about it.

 

[duby229]

Since you pretty much hate Linux, thre isnt much any of us can suggest short of go to distrowatch, and read the reviews, and try the at least the top ten out for yourself, and make your own decision.

 

[bobbydole]

debian! Hurray!

 

[lopoetve]

Since you pretty much hate Linux, thre isnt much any of us can suggest short of go to distrowatch, and read the reviews, and try the at least the top ten out for yourself, and make your own decision.

I don't know where you got that I hate linux... quite the contrary. I just hate fighting with driver issues, especially given the current complexity of a lot of them. I loved gentoo back before ALSA, but ALSA is just a disaster when it comes to installing. Ubuntu and NVIDIA, well, there's a whole update out there on the auto update list that makes X windows unusable with the latest drivers. There's no solution as of yet, over a month after the problem was discovered.

Debian and I is just a design decision I don't agree with.

 

[lopoetve]

debian! Hurray!

I may give debian another try, see if they've changed the things I didn't like. It's been 5 years, I guess...

 

[[H]EMI_426]

You like Ubuntu, but you don't like Debian?

Another vote for Debian. Of course, I'd suggest FreeBSD, but you specified just Linux.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

Ubuntu and NVIDIA, well, there's a whole update out there on the auto update list that makes X windows unusable with the latest drivers. There's no solution as of yet, over a month after the problem was discovered.

Debian and I is just a design decision I don't agree with.

Ummm....plx explain because clearly I am using X, and I am using the latest nvidia driver.....and know there was an xorg update a while back that broke X, but was easily fixed in less then 2 mins (All I did was roll back the xorg update.....not to mention the forums also had the fix in about 10mins of the bad update), and then the proper update hit the repos 2-3 hours later.

You like Ubuntu, but you don't like Debian?

Another vote for Debian. Of course, I'd suggest FreeBSD, but you specified just Linux.

Ummm...yeah I agree, but I guess he does not like configuring debian......Also to the OP if you go BSD, you could try PC BSD which is based off free BSD but slightly easier to install and have it working....

 

[smizack]

How's Fedora for bloat?

If you thought SuSE was bad, you'd really hate Fedora.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

with fedora though cant you do a basic install and then go from there if you wanna trim the bloat off???

 

[lopoetve]

You like Ubuntu, but you don't like Debian?

Another vote for Debian. Of course, I'd suggest FreeBSD, but you specified just Linux.

Different install program, support, design, etc.

BSD and I get along great; I have a NetBSD install and an OpenBSD server, but I want this box linux

 

[lopoetve]

Ummm....plx explain because clearly I am using X, and I am using the latest nvidia driver.....and know there was an xorg update a while back that broke X, but was easily fixed in less then 2 mins (All I did was roll back the xorg update.....not to mention the forums also had the fix in about 10mins of the bad update), and then the proper update hit the repos 2-3 hours later.



Ummm...yeah I agree, but I guess he does not like configuring debian......Also to the OP if you go BSD, you could try PC BSD which is based off free BSD but slightly easier to install and have it working....

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318206
There's the problem. Especially if you want to use the latest version off of the Nvidia site, you can be in a lot of trouble. I'm going to see if I can roll back the kernel update, but that may not prove as easy, given the fiddling done. There's no solution in that thread that I've seen, and it's been a month.

It was more than the configuration. Debian has always been aimed at complete stability, the distro tends to run pretty far behind the others for package versions and compatibility with the bleeding edge stuff.

 

[lopoetve]

If you thought SuSE was bad, you'd really hate Fedora.

Figured.

with fedora though cant you do a basic install and then go from there if you wanna trim the bloat off???

Not really...

 

[Hiltonizer]

Fedora Core 6 ftw, less bloat than previous versions.

 

[lopoetve]

Fedora Core 6 ftw, less bloat than previous versions.

what did they change?

 

[Hiltonizer]

tons of overhauls under the hood, dont have a list in front of me but i've used every release of fedora, and it just feels tighter and more responsive.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=318206
There's the problem. Especially if you want to use the latest version off of the Nvidia site, you can be in a lot of trouble. I'm going to see if I can roll back the kernel update, but that may not prove as easy, given the fiddling done. There's no solution in that thread that I've seen, and it's been a month.

It was more than the configuration. Debian has always been aimed at complete stability, the distro tends to run pretty far behind the others for package versions and compatibility with the bleeding edge stuff.

well I am using the latest version, 9746 driver just fine, have you tried using the nvidia-glx package as I am, I mean thats why apt/synaptic is there, so you do not have to go to the nvidia site and download, compile, etc etc......

 

[lopoetve]

well I am using the latest version, 9746 driver just fine, have you tried using the nvidia-glx package as I am, I mean thats why apt/synaptic is there, so you do not have to go to the nvidia site and download, compile, etc etc......

yes. Doesn't have twinview support, also 3/4 of the time I install it, I don't get 3d acceleration.

There are issues with their nvidia-glx package as well, hence why there are 4 different methods for trying to install this stuff.

 

[duby229]

yes. Doesn't have twinview support, also 3/4 of the time I install it, I don't get 3d acceleration.

There are issues with their nvidia-glx package as well, hence why there are 4 different methods for trying to install this stuff.

I'm using twinview at work with that driver. Of course I'm not using Ubuntu, Gentoo for me, but twinview does work with that version of the nvidia driver.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

yes. Doesn't have twinview support, also 3/4 of the time I install it, I don't get 3d acceleration.

There are issues with their nvidia-glx package as well, hence why there are 4 different methods for trying to install this stuff.

using both community released nvidia-glx packages and the official releases I can tell you twinview is supported and there is 3d acceleration.
if for whatever reason you think I am talking out of my ass here is a screenshot, of me running glxgears, my twinview setup, the version of nvidia-glx I am running.



The are really only 2 methods to install the nvidia drivers;
method 1) Download package from nvidia because it has not been backported (or you do not use the backport repo), remember for stability reasons once a release is out it only receives security or bug fixes. There is also a method to create your own .deb from this method but its essentially the same method.

or method 2) use nvidia-glx method if you do not mind not using bleeding edge drivers, but there are repos that create and release bleeding edge drivers. This has its advantages as well since you can still use restricted modules, and you do not have to re-install drivers on a kernel update.

The only time I have ever had problems with the nvidia-glx package has been the nvidia-glx-legacy package, which was a pain under breezy with a tnt2.

Other then that I have had nothing but 100% success with the nvidia-glx packages, both community and official versions.

-edit- and the first post in the thread has workarounds and possible solutions which involve re-installing the drivers have you tried that??

also back on topic why not give gentoo a crack or arch linux?

 

[lopoetve]

using both community released nvidia-glx packages and the official releases I can tell you twinview is supported and there is 3d acceleration.
if for whatever reason you think I am talking out of my ass here is a screenshot, of me running glxgears, my twinview setup, the version of nvidia-glx I am running.



The are really only 2 methods to install the nvidia drivers;
method 1) Download package from nvidia because it has not been backported (or you do not use the backport repo), remember for stability reasons once a release is out it only receives security or bug fixes. There is also a method to create your own .deb from this method but its essentially the same method.

or method 2) use nvidia-glx method if you do not mind not using bleeding edge drivers, but there are repos that create and release bleeding edge drivers. This has its advantages as well since you can still use restricted modules, and you do not have to re-install drivers on a kernel update.

The only time I have ever had problems with the nvidia-glx package has been the nvidia-glx-legacy package, which was a pain under breezy with a tnt2.

Other then that I have had nothing but 100% success with the nvidia-glx packages, both community and official versions.

-edit- and the first post in the thread has workarounds and possible solutions which involve re-installing the drivers have you tried that??

also back on topic why not give gentoo a crack or arch linux?

I'm telling you it doesn't work on ~my~ setup. Don't have a clue why, I've been through 6 different walkthroughs on the Ubuntu site, and no dice.

I can use the nvidia driver and get twinview, or I can fire up the nvidia-glx and not. 4 different installs, 1 kubuntu, 3 ubuntu, and same dice eveery time. The tab under nvidia-settings for Twinview ~does not exist~ when I use nvidia-glx. Yes, I've tried all their solutions, and I have an active thread on the forums too. I have to re-run the envy installer on boot every single time I fire up my computer to get into X-windows.

there are far more than 2 ways to install:
1. Use nvidia-glx.
2. Use Envy
3. Use Automatix
4. Get the kernel source, gcc, etc and install the drivers by hand (similar to Envy).
5. Manually do nvidia-glx, instead of the package manager.

Each of those has variations, which is why there are ~hundreds~ of threads on the drivers (including a "Did you ever get it working" thread) at ubuntuforums.

I've never heard of the backport repo, I wouldn't know what that was either. However, I DO want your background, and to know what that bottom object-dock thing is?

I'll look at Arch linux. See my OP for Gentoo (no working ALSA drivers for my soundblaster).

 

[lopoetve]

I'm using twinview at work with that driver. Of course I'm not using Ubuntu, Gentoo for me, but twinview does work with that version of the nvidia driver.

correct, it does exist and it works. If you use the nvidia driver. In my experience, the Ubuntu package, nvidia-glx, has had this stripped out, or is non-functional on my system.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

I'm telling you it doesn't work on ~my~ setup. Don't have a clue why, I've been through 6 different walkthroughs on the Ubuntu site, and no dice.

I can use the nvidia driver and get twinview, or I can fire up the nvidia-glx and not. 4 different installs, 1 kubuntu, 3 ubuntu, and same dice eveery time. The tab under nvidia-settings for Twinview ~does not exist~ when I use nvidia-glx. Yes, I've tried all their solutions, and I have an active thread on the forums too. I have to re-run the envy installer on boot every single time I fire up my computer to get into X-windows.

there are far more than 2 ways to install:
1. Use nvidia-glx.
2. Use Envy
3. Use Automatix
4. Get the kernel source, gcc, etc and install the drivers by hand (similar to Envy).
5. Manually do nvidia-glx, instead of the package manager.

Each of those has variations, which is why there are ~hundreds~ of threads on the drivers (including a "Did you ever get it working" thread) at ubuntuforums.

I've never heard of the backport repo, I wouldn't know what that was either. However, I DO want your background, and to know what that bottom object-dock thing is?

I'll look at Arch linux. See my OP for Gentoo (no working ALSA drivers for my soundblaster).

acctually automatix, and depending which envy script you use, both use nvidia-glx. They simply add repo temp, then update, then apt-get install nvidia-glx and then nvidia-xconfig, instead of you manually doing it. Or envy downloads and installs the installer package for you, automagically so you manually do not have to, the same is for your methods 4 and 5.
Really only two methods, the other methods simply automate the process. I am not trying to be an ass, I am trying to help you understand.

Also have you tried editing your xorg.conf manually to get twinview? That is originally how I setup twinview on my system, here is the relavent portion from my xorg.conf

Section "Screen"
    Identifier     "Screen0"
    Device         "Card0"
    Monitor        "Monitor0"
    DefaultDepth   24
    Option         "NoLogo" "True"
    Option         "Coolbits" "1"
[b]    Option         "TwinView" "true"
#    Option	   "MetaModes" "1280x1024,1280x1024"
    Option         "MetaModes" "1600x1200,1600x1200"
    Option         "TwinViewOrientation" "RightOf"
    Option         "SecondMonitorHorizSync" "50-75"
    Option         "SecondMonitorVertRefresh" "60-80"[/b]
#    Option         "RenderAccel" "true"
    Option 	   "AddARGBGLXVisuals" "True"
    #Option "DisableGLXRootClipping" "True
    SubSection     "Display"
        Viewport    0 0
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Viewport    0 0
        Depth       4
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Viewport    0 0
        Depth       8
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Viewport    0 0
        Depth       15
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Viewport    0 0
        Depth       16
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Viewport    0 0
        Depth       24
    EndSubSection
EndSection

I will give you more info on the dock, when I get back from hockey, I g2g now though.

 

[lopoetve]

what I mean by differign methods is that there are different orders/etc done. The guides for the nvidia binary differ from what envy does (the one I'm using gets the nvidia binary). , as do the guides for nvidia-glx. They use the same packages, but with alternate surrounding configurations, hence why I counted them different... it makes it more clear when I say that I did something already.

I did try editing xorg.conf for twinview., got horrible screen corruption. I also installed beryl though, so I'm thinking the two might have been related. I'm going to reinstall, we'll figure it out after that.

 

[Whatsisname]

whats your beef with debian?

 

[duby229]

If you got screen corruption, then your xorg.conf is not configured properly. Post your xorg.conf here so we can look at it, and tell you what might be wrong with. We are of course glad to help, but if we cant see it then we cant help it, also it may be a good idea to take a screenshot of the corruption. Different types of corruption have different causes, so post that as well so we can determine what is causing your problems.

 

[lopoetve]

whats your beef with debian?

It's a long story.

If you got screen corruption, then your xorg.conf is not configured properly. Post your xorg.conf here so we can look at it, and tell you what might be wrong with. We are of course glad to help, but if we cant see it then we cant help it, also it may be a good idea to take a screenshot of the corruption. Different types of corruption have different causes, so post that as well so we can determine what is causing your problems.

Can't seem to screen shot it in linux right... basically, with beryl running, once you scroll past the side of the screen your thing stretches out to infinity and then simply vanishes. This is twinview only. Without the drivers installed, the second screen is just totally garbled.

Will post xorg.conf as soon as I get this reinstall done. Beryl obliterated the gnome display manager.

 

[Blackknight]

Have you considered Archlinux? It's similar to Slackware but has a better package management system and the packages are more up to date, there's already an XFCE 4.4 package available and it was just released about two days ago.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

About the the dock its gnome-dock, its still very much a work in progress.....I would suggest kxdocker, or kibadock.

Also ummm, how did you even attempt to run beryl without a driver installed. Also did you run aiglx (incl. nvidia aiglx) or xgl. I suspect alot of your issues were with trying to run at best *alpha* software...........

 

[lopoetve]

About the the dock its gnome-dock, its still very much a work in progress.....I would suggest kxdocker, or kibadock.

Also ummm, how did you even attempt to run beryl without a driver installed. Also did you run aiglx (incl. nvidia aiglx) or xgl. I suspect alot of your issues were with trying to run at best *alpha* software...........

never heard of aiglx, did not try xgl.

I know Beryl is alpha, but hell, it's fun! My issues were with the true drivers. which, given my new install order (ubuntu, patches (minus kernel), nvidia, kernel, nvidia-glx, beryl.), I'm on the road!

Ubuntu it is! Yay!

 

[lopoetve]

Have you considered Archlinux? It's similar to Slackware but has a better package management system and the packages are more up to date, there's already an XFCE 4.4 package available and it was just released about two days ago.

gonna look at it too

 

[As I Lay Dying]

never heard of aiglx, did not try xgl.

I know Beryl is alpha, but hell, it's fun! My issues were with the true drivers. which, given my new install order (ubuntu, patches (minus kernel), nvidia, kernel, nvidia-glx, beryl.), I'm on the road!

Ubuntu it is! Yay!

you cannot run beryl/compiz without aiglx or xgl........so I am confused how you have never heard of aiglx or ran xgl but attempted to run beryl.

second, installing the official nvidia installer package and then updating the kernel is useless as the downside of the nvidia installer package from nvidia is kernel dependent, updating the kernel, means re-installing the nvidia drivers from the package.

But since you installed nvidia-glx, you should not have that issue, and more or less undid what you did with the nvidia install file from the website. But on a plus side depending on your nvidia-glx version you are probably running beryl on aiglx that is now supported by the nvidia drivers. Enjoy.......but from what you posted I think you definitely are in the windows frame of mind when using * gnu/linux, which is bad as windows != linux, sufficed to say you are french frying when you should pizza......

 

[duby229]

That's what I siad too.

Use the package manager to install the nvidia drivers, then post your xorg.conf here so we can look at it. When using Beryl, there is some settings you'll have to change in the xorg.conf to turn on compositing, then plus to get twinview working there will be several new sections you'll have to add in order to use the second monitor.

 

[lopoetve]

you cannot run beryl/compiz without aiglx or xgl........so I am confused how you have never heard of aiglx or ran xgl but attempted to run beryl.

second, installing the official nvidia installer package and then updating the kernel is useless as the downside of the nvidia installer package from nvidia is kernel dependent, updating the kernel, means re-installing the nvidia drivers from the package.

But since you installed nvidia-glx, you should not have that issue, and more or less undid what you did with the nvidia install file from the website. But on a plus side depending on your nvidia-glx version you are probably running beryl on aiglx that is now supported by the nvidia drivers. Enjoy.......but from what you posted I think you definitely are in the windows frame of mind when using * gnu/linux, which is bad as windows != linux, sufficed to say you are french frying when you should pizza......

Hell if I know. I just know that any other order results in a horribly broken twinview. I tested it last night about 10 times. Maybe has something to do with the dependencies that it (Envy) makes me get for the nvidia package? I know envy installs a set of compiler and header dependencies as well, so that coul be it.

As for beryl. I'm using a script to install (I'll link once I get home) provided by them. It installs a great many things (well over 100mb), so I'm guessing it gets the rest. It may install those too, again, I don't know.

I'm actually in the AIX frame of mind: *nix should not have driver issues. It should work out of the box. the issues come in configuring it to do what you want That, and I hate the fact that some distro's don't work with vendor provided drivers: Ubuntu is the only one I know of where the nvidia isntaller won't work out of the box. Even SuSE just requires using sax2 to do the configuration of your resolution.

 

[lopoetve]

That's what I siad too.

Use the package manager to install the nvidia drivers, then post your xorg.conf here so we can look at it. When using Beryl, there is some settings you'll have to change in the xorg.conf to turn on compositing, then plus to get twinview working there will be several new sections you'll have to add in order to use the second monitor.

didn't have to touch anything in xorg.conf except for the twinview stuff, which I got from AILD above. The beryl script modified xorg.conf itself.

The script they provide for Nvidia+Beryl on Ubuntu works perfectly, if you've got the right setup to install it into.

What is compositing?

 

[lopoetve]

#!/bin/bash
if [ `whoami` != "root" ]; then
 echo "You must run this script as root.";
else
 cp /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.backup.beryl-script
 cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup.beryl-script
 echo "deb http://nvidia.limitless.lupine.me.uk/ubuntu edgy stable" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
 wget http://nvidia.limitless.lupine.me.uk/ubuntu/root@lupine.me.uk.gpg -O- | apt-key add -
 aptitude -y update && aptitude -y install linux-restricted-modules-$(uname -r) nvidia-glx
 nvidia-xconfig --add-argb-glx-visuals
 echo "deb http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org/ edgy main" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
 wget http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org/root@lupine.me.uk.gpg -O- | apt-key add -
 aptitude -y update && aptitude -y dist-upgrade
 aptitude -y install beryl emerald emerald-themes
 echo "[Desktop Entry]
 Encoding=UTF-8
 Name=Beryl Manager
 GenericName=3D Window Manager
 Comment=Beryl Manager daemon
 Icon=/usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/beryl-manager.svg
 Exec=beryl-manager
 Terminal=false
 Type=Application
 Categories=GTK;GNOME;Application;Utility;
 StartupNotify=true
 X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=beryl-manager" | sudo tee /etc/xdg/autostart/beryl-manager.desktop
 sudo cp /etc/xdg/autostart/beryl-manager.desktop /usr/share/applications/beryl-manager.desktop
 cp /etc/xdg/autostart/beryl-manager.desktop ~/Desktop/beryl-manager.desktop
 echo -e "\n\nBeryl is now installed.\n\nTo run Beryl on Ubuntu startup, please add beryl-manager to your\nstartup programs (System > Preferences > Sessions, and click on\nthe \"startup programs\" tab). Afterwards, please reboot.\n\nBackups of /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/X11/xorg.conf were made:\n    /etc/apt/sources.list.backup.beryl-script\n    /etc/X11/xorg.conf.backup"
fi;

This is the script. from http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index.php/Install/Ubuntu/Edgy/nVIDIA

I use that. it works perfect.

 

[lopoetve]

as I lay dying, how did you install beryl? and can I get your background?

 

[duby229]

It means that Beryl isnt actually hardware accelerated. It uses a memory range that is then maniopulated by the Graphics hardware, hence it is "composited"

It is more complecated then that, but you get the idea.

Still though, it might be a good idea to post your xorg.conf, so we can look at it.