Help me on my ITX build

[EndersShadow]

I am looking to build a HTPC/Music server/player. My requirements are pretty simple

1. Need to be ITX
2. Needs to run Windows 7 & XBMC and some other media players (though not all at the same time)
3. Needs a eSATA port
4. Needs to be around 150 for the motherboard, cpu and ram.
5. Needs to be able to run on 150 watts MAX, lower the better
6. Needs min 3 sata connectors
7. Needs HDMI

This will be used mostly to connect to a USB headphone amp to playback my music via XBMC at work so it will be totally controlled via wireless and my iPhone. I would like to have it run good enough to connect to my receiver at my house and navigate XBMC on my main TV and possibly use with a blu-ray player later on if possible. I will not be encoding and or storing blu-ray and dvd rips on this player so it doesnt need to be able to decode and play those back.

I already have purchase a case for this build as well as the powersupply:

Case: HTPC-ITX6-Black
PowerSupply: 150W PSU-250mm cable +120W AC/DC converter

In addition I plan to replace the stock fan on the case with a Noctua NF-R8-1800 and also purchase AcoustiPak noise dampening material to layer over the entire case if possible.

I have looked at a couple different solutions and keep trying to figure out the best one.

I have the following combinations:

Combo 1:
Mobo: ASRock E350M1 (may also use the 10 dollar more one with USB 3.0)
CPU: built into board
Ram: Kingston Value 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 Desktop Memory Model
Total cost ~120ish depending on which motherboard I go with.

Extra factors: I will replace the CPU fan with a noiseblocker one or another quieter fan.

Combo 2:
Mobo: ASRock A75M-ITX FM1 AMD A75
CPU: AMD A4-3400 Llano 2.7GHz
RAM: PNY XLR8 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Total cost: 177 (so its 25 bucks over budget) before factoring in the extra things

Extra factors: I will probably have to purchase a Scythe SCKZT-1000 80mm Kozuti to keep it cool which ups the price a bit

Combo 3:
Mobo: JetWay JI61G-ITX LGA 1155 Intel H61 HDMI USB 3.0
CPU: Intel Celeron G530
RAM: Kingston Value 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066

Extra factors: I will probably have to purchase a SILVERSTONE NT07-1156 for the case which adds to the cost

Hoping to get some pro's and con's from the community at large as to each system to help me narrow it down.

I looked briefly at the Atom platform but decided it was to underpowered for me.

 

[Melon]

The Llano hands down if you plan on gaming any. If not, the socket 1155 chip.

 

[EndersShadow]

The Llano hands down if you plan on gaming any. If not, the socket 1155 chip.

No gaming but possibly blu ray playback from a slot loading drive.

So in no way would you go for the lower powered Zacate board over either of the other options.

 

[Melon]

No gaming but possibly blu ray playback from a slot loading drive.

So in no way would you go for the lower powered Zacate board over either of the other options.

Go with the G530, then. The E-350 is trumped by it, and you can always upgrade to an even faster chip in the future if need be.

 

[EndersShadow]

Go with the G530, then. The E-350 is trumped by it, and you can always upgrade to an even faster chip in the future if need be.

The issue I will run into if I go with a faster processor is the CPU heats sink needs to be under 40mm which just about kills any decent cooler capable of a high tdp chip.

The G350 was my original choice but I wasn't sure if the Zacate board would work as its a bit cheaper and lower system draw. By the same token I wasn't sure if spending a bit more on the FM1 board would net me a better system.

 

[Melon]

The issue I will run into if I go with a faster processor is the CPU heats sink needs to be under 40mm which just about kills any decent cooler capable of a high tdp chip.

The G350 was my original choice but I wasn't sure if the Zacate board would work as its a bit cheaper and lower system draw. By the same token I wasn't sure if spending a bit more on the FM1 board would net me a better system.

The G530 is faster than both AMD chips. I wouldn't necessarily say the low-profile cooler wouldn't be able to acceptably handle, say, an i5-2500. Will you be able to OC a chip with that cooler? Nah, but then again, that G530 will handle pretty much any video you throw at it. (So really no point in upgrading the chip from a HTPC standpoint)

The lower system draw is a marginal 15-20 watts, as the E-350 will have a higher utilization than the G530. I would definitely recommend modding that ITX case to allow for better air flow as well.

 

[EndersShadow]

Modding that case ain't happening lol. It looks pretty sexy as is and I don't think that there is any room to add anything and the case is quite thick so cutting vents into it isn't something I want to do.

 

[Melon]

Modding that case ain't happening lol. It looks pretty sexy as is and I don't think that there is any room to add anything and the case is quite thick so cutting vents into it isn't something I want to do.

Just drill additional ventilation holes.

 

[Machupo]

I have two ITX7-2's from the same company (Wesena).

I have one running on an Asus E-350 board w/ a 80gb intel ssd and a 3TB western digital green drive (and a 60w pico psu. It's good for what it does but hiccups on HD streaming.

The other one was a Giada Z68 motherboard with a i3-2100 processor, a 120gb mSATA ssd and a 3TB green (I've now moved to a much smaller case, so it is actually just sitting in a box waiting to be sold).

The heatsink I use on that one is this. It is the same height as the DDR3 and will cool up to 65W. No issue with cooling, even with a 3.5" drive installed (and you know how close that is if you have that case).

 

[EndersShadow]

I have two ITX7-2's from the same company (Wesena).

I have one running on an Asus E-350 board w/ a 80gb intel ssd and a 3TB western digital green drive (and a 60w pico psu. It's good for what it does but hiccups on HD streaming

Yeah I looked at the ITX7 but didnt want the USB on the front since I want it to look more like a piece of audio equipment like a CD player.

The E-350 board whats it do and run? I love the price of the E-350 combo but the utility of the G530.

The heatsink I use on that one is this. It is the same height as the DDR3 and will cool up to 65W. No issue with cooling, even with a 3.5" drive installed (and you know how close that is if you have that case).

Yeah that was also on my list, but I heard lots of things about it having noise issues so I was slightly scared away. How does it work for you?

Just drill additional ventilation holes.

LOL, not happening man, the entire case top is going to be covered in noise dampening stuff so I want as few spaces for noise to escape......

 

[Melon]

Yeah I looked at the ITX7 but didnt want the USB on the front since I want it to look more like a piece of audio equipment like a CD player.

The E-350 board whats it do and run? I love the price of the E-350 combo but the utility of the G530.



Yeah that was also on my list, but I heard lots of things about it having noise issues so I was slightly scared away. How does it work for you?



LOL, not happening man, the entire case top is going to be covered in noise dampening stuff so I want as few spaces for noise to escape......

Bah, get a low RPM case fan and don't worry about the noise.

 

[EndersShadow]

Bah, get a low RPM case fan and don't worry about the noise.

The Noctua 80mm will provide more than enough airflow IMHO.

 

[Machupo]

Yeah I looked at the ITX7 but didnt want the USB on the front since I want it to look more like a piece of audio equipment like a CD player.

The E-350 board whats it do and run? I love the price of the E-350 combo but the utility of the G530.

I've got the Asus passive board, a bit more expensive, but it's ok. It gets the job done in terms of playback, but I would NEVER, EVER use it to encode/decode/rip

Yeah that was also on my list, but I heard lots of things about it having noise issues so I was slightly scared away. How does it work for you?

No issues with noise. Honestly the case fan is louder than that thing. Can't even hear it from the couch (and if you've seen some of my other threads you'll know I'm a stickler for noise).

Responses in red

 

[EndersShadow]

Responses in red

Thanks!

Yeah the Sandy Bridge is probably what I will go ahead and get. I plan on making some templates out of paper so that I can literally cover the entire thing with AcoustiPak noise dampening material.

I only probably need one sheet but I am scared the 7mm extra sheet is just too thick for the case.

Any thoughts on that one? The Extra Sheet is like 21 bucks and that kit is like 45 I think and I know I will have tons left over if I get the kit.

 

[leifeinar]

I have tried building small with amd fusion, and its just to warm and hard to get silent. 35W cpu and dedicated amd graphics.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102933

 

[EndersShadow]

I have tried building small with amd fusion, and its just to warm and hard to get silent. 35W cpu and dedicated amd graphics.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102933

Would like to avoid going with a dedicated graphics card as this case doesnt allow me much flexibility in regards to a powersupply.

I have 150 watts and thats it. I would prefer to keep it waay below that to ensure the PSU lasts a long long time.

 

[Dangman]

While I agree that you should go Intel, there's still the issue that you listed a Jetway motherboard. Jetway isn't exactly known for quality. There's a reason why they're so ridiculously cheap compared to similar featured motherboards. Considering the limited cooling and the fact that you're actually planning to exacerbate that by adding sound dampening material all around that case thereby further limiting the cooling capability of the system, spend the extra cash for a better mobo so that system will have a better chance of surviving that heat. I recommend this Intel mITX mobo instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121597

You'll see that it's a H77 mobo: That's a good thing considering that it has native USB 3.0 support whereas the USB 3.0 support found on the H61/H67/Z68/Q67 mobos had to be provided by 3rd parties whose USB 3.0 capability wasn't always that reliable. Native support means you'll have a higher chance of reliability. Yes that mobo costs nearly $50 more but the significant jump in quality and reliability is worth it IMO especially considering your case choice, your unwillingness to mod the case for better cooling, and the desire to worsen that cooling by surrounding it with sound dampening material.

 

[notarat]

The issue I will run into if I go with a faster processor is the CPU heats sink needs to be under 40mm which just about kills any decent cooler capable of a high tdp chip.

The G350 was my original choice but I wasn't sure if the Zacate board would work as its a bit cheaper and lower system draw. By the same token I wasn't sure if spending a bit more on the FM1 board would net me a better system.

I bit the bullet and used the Asus F1A75 Deluxe paired with an A4-3400. I then replaced the OEM Heatsink with a Scythe Kozuti. Can't say enough good things about the Kozuti.

I flipped the fan on the Kozuti and it now blows up into the 140mm fan in my Corsair PSU to exhaust the heat out of the case. I don't even need a case fan. I never exceed 44°C even when playing back BluRay

Yeah it was a bit more $ than I wanted to spend initially, but I am totally pleased with it. the integrated video is great. I have eSATA as well as 4 SATA ports. It has USB 3 in back and up front, has great BIOS/UEFI.

The install into the Lan Li Q-08B case was a bitch, but I knew going into it that it was going to be rough...

 

[EndersShadow]

While I agree that you should go Intel, there's still the issue that you listed a Jetway motherboard. Jetway isn't exactly known for quality. There's a reason why they're so ridiculously cheap compared to similar featured motherboards. Considering the limited cooling and the fact that you're actually planning to exacerbate that by adding sound dampening material all around that case thereby further limiting the cooling capability of the system, spend the extra cash for a better mobo so that system will have a better chance of surviving that heat.

I am aware Jetway is a relatively unknown to me personally but my other personal choice for a motherboard was from ASRock: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157238

Also how is adding noise dampening material going to make the hotter? I plan to leave all the openings currently there uncovered. If your refering to covering up the aluminum which can act as a heatsink, then I can leave all that exposed for now and see how loud the system sounds as it is.

I recommend this Intel mITX mobo instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121597
You'll see that it's a H77 mobo: That's a good thing considering that it has native USB 3.0 support whereas the USB 3.0 support found on the H61/H67/Z68/Q67 mobos had to be provided by 3rd parties whose USB 3.0 capability wasn't always that reliable. Native support means you'll have a higher chance of reliability. Yes that mobo costs nearly $50 more but the significant jump in quality and reliability is worth it IMO especially considering your case choice, your unwillingness to mod the case for better cooling, and the desire to worsen that cooling by surrounding it with sound dampening material.

So if I were to say I dont care about USB 3.0 support at all as long as I have a USB 2.0 port or two, would that change your recommendation?

I bit the bullet and used the Asus F1A75 Deluxe paired with an A4-3400. I then replaced the OEM Heatsink with a Scythe Kozuti. Can't say enough good things about the Kozuti.

I flipped the fan on the Kozuti and it now blows up into the 140mm fan in my Corsair PSU to exhaust the heat out of the case. I don't even need a case fan. I never exceed 44°C even when playing back BluRay

Yeah it was a bit more $ than I wanted to spend initially, but I am totally pleased with it. the integrated video is great. I have eSATA as well as 4 SATA ports. It has USB 3 in back and up front, has great BIOS/UEFI.

The install into the Lan Li Q-08B case was a bitch, but I knew going into it that it was going to be rough...

In my case I cant blow up as thats going to hit the 3.5HDD directly. I can blow down but its going to be blocked from going toward the 80mm fan by the RAM chips. The other way is the PCI slot which will be totally open so it can at least get direct exhaust out that way as well as directly above it.

 

[TinLizard]

Personally, I'd consider the Streacom equivalent case. It's a little more expensive, but after you've bought a new HS, noise insulation, Noctua fan, etc., you'll probably even out in price. In addition, you'd have a completely silent case when you're done.

Perfect Home Theater has some defect cases on sale right now. On the black case, it looks like the defect is on the bottom so you'd never notice it while sitting on your desk (call to be sure). You'll have to verify compatibility between the MB and the cooler, of course.

 

[EndersShadow]

@Tin.

I looked at those and the biggest issue I had was the motherboard compatibility. I am ridiculously limited as to what will work in that case in addition to it being more expensive.

I agree your idea is better in concept (totally noiseless) but its a bit more of a pain to find compatible boards that dont cost 100+.

 

[Dangman]

Also how is adding noise dampening material going to make the hotter? I plan to leave all the openings currently there uncovered. If your refering to covering up the aluminum which can act as a heatsink, then I can leave all that exposed for now and see how loud the system sounds as it is.

Actually I was referring to both: covering up the aluminum and covering up the openings.

So if I were to say I dont care about USB 3.0 support at all as long as I have a USB 2.0 port or two, would that change your recommendation?

Not really. I'd still recommend Z77 mobo since they're newer and more than likely to have longer support than older Z68, H61, or H67 mobos.

 

[Melon]

Actually I was referring to both: covering up the aluminum and covering up the openings.


Not really. I'd still recommend Z77 mobo since they're newer and more than likely to have longer support than older Z68, H61, or H67 mobos.

Danny, I'm starting to think you get some kind of commission from the 'Egg, as that's the only e-tailer you seem to recommend, with nary a mind to price.

A motherboard's support is as long as it's warranty is, there's no reason to get a Z77 board for a HTPC.

 

[Dangman]

Danny, I'm starting to think you get some kind of commission from the 'Egg, as that's the only e-tailer you seem to recommend, with nary a mind to price.

Actually if you check my post history, I also recommend from Amazon.com when the OP is from NJ, CA, or TN, states where Newegg charges tax or if the deal is that much better. Not to mention that HardOCP supposedly gets a small commission from Newegg links as well. In addition, it'll take even longer for me to go and deal hunt for everything as I have to factor in shipping and whether or not that seller was listing the product at its AMIR price or real price plus local sales tax and considering that I post in close to a dozen build threads a day (if not more), it just takes too much time for me to go recommend from sites other than Newegg or Amazon.com for American posters. Yes I do factor in shipping costs and sales tax as those really determines whether or not a part is a good deal. Also Newegg has those combo deals for certain parts that can save the OP money. So with all that combined, thats why I generally stick with Newegg or Amazon.com. I leave it up to the OP to do the major deal-hunting.

For the non-American posters, I'm more than willing to look through whatever online sites are available to those foreign posters as:
A) They usually only have 1-2 computer hardware stores available for their country, province, district, etc
B) Foreign computer hardware stores (except for Canada) generally don't have that "list everything by their AMIR price" shit thats common in North American stores (exactly why I always hate using Tigerdirect and that Canadian online store that starts with "NC" as well as my intense hatred of PCPartPicker.)
C) They have a lot more flexibility when it comes to sales tax (if any) and shipping (sometimes the stores are local to them) so I generally don't have to factor those in

A motherboard's support is as long as it's warranty is, there's no reason to get a Z77 board for a HTPC.

That Jetway only has a two year warranty. Not much has been said of Jetway's customer support. The Intel mobo I recommended has a three year warranty and Intel's customer support is a known quantity and we do have an Intel rep on this forum somewhere. So for better quality, better customer support, longer support period, and a longer warranty, that extra cash is well worth it IMO for that Intel mITX mobo I recommended earlier.

 

[EndersShadow]

Actually I was referring to both: covering up the aluminum and covering up the openings.

Not really. I'd still recommend Z77 mobo since they're newer and more than likely to have longer support than older Z68, H61, or H67 mobos.

Gotcha, I keep that in mind. I might just forgo the noise dampening entirely. I will just see if its needed after the fact.

Danny, I'm starting to think you get some kind of commission from the 'Egg, as that's the only e-tailer you seem to recommend, with nary a mind to price.

A motherboard's support is as long as it's warranty is, there's no reason to get a Z77 board for a HTPC.

Personally I prefer purchasing from Newegg. I have yet to have a bad transaction from them so no worries on my part.

Actually if you check my post history, I also recommend from Amazon.com when the OP is from NJ, CA, or TN, states where Newegg charges tax or if the deal is that much better. Not to mention that HardOCP supposedly gets a small commission from Newegg links as well. In addition, it'll take even longer for me to go and deal hunt for everything as I have to factor in shipping and whether or not that seller was listing the product at its AMIR price or real price plus local sales tax and considering that I post in close to a dozen build threads a day (if not more), it just takes too much time for me to go recommend from sites other than Newegg or Amazon.com for American posters. Yes I do factor in shipping costs and sales tax as those really determines whether or not a part is a good deal. Also Newegg has those combo deals for certain parts that can save the OP money. So with all that combined, thats why I generally stick with Newegg or Amazon.com. I leave it up to the OP to do the major deal-hunting.

For the non-American posters, I'm more than willing to look through whatever online sites are available to those foreign posters as:
A) They usually only have 1-2 computer hardware stores available for their country, province, district, etc
B) Foreign computer hardware stores (except for Canada) generally don't have that "list everything by their AMIR price" shit thats common in North American stores (exactly why I always hate using Tigerdirect and that Canadian online store that starts with "NC" as well as my intense hatred of PCPartPicker.)
C) They have a lot more flexibility when it comes to sales tax (if any) and shipping (sometimes the stores are local to them) so I generally don't have to factor those in

That Jetway only has a two year warranty. Not much has been said of Jetway's customer support. The Intel mobo I recommended has a three year warranty and Intel's customer support is a known quantity and we do have an Intel rep on this forum somewhere. So for better quality, better customer support, longer support period, and a longer warranty, that extra cash is well worth it IMO for that Intel mITX mobo I recommended earlier.

Danny no need to defend yourself to me. I figured those were some of the reasons. I myself was originally going to go with the ASRock board as I know they are a offshoot of Asus who I have purchased many motherboards from and have yet to have an issue. I may still spend the extra 20 on that ASRock board (though its the older platform you dont recommend ).

Here were the other three boards I was looking at besides the Jetway
H67M - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157238
B75M - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157310
H77M - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157311

 

[Dangman]

I generally don't recommend Asrock since tested HardOCP AsRock mobos were a bit inconsistent

 

[EndersShadow]

I generally don't recommend Asrock since tested HardOCP AsRock mobos were a bit inconsistent

Appreciate that. Not what I really wanted to hear though .

Just curious but any other suggested FM1 boards? Newegg only has one so looking for some decent vendor's for perhaps a slighty cheaper board.

I did find this one board: http://www.directron.com/gaa75nusb3.html

 

[EndersShadow]

I bought my components earlier this morning and they are on their way. I think I did good.

I went with the following:

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-A75N-USB3 (good review here)

I went with this motherboard as it uses good parts from a trusted brand. I read LOTS of reviews of ASRock boards (both H67, H61, H77, FM1) and while some are positive there were some constant issues with them and some trusted sources said they were iffy at times. I was more familiar with ASUS but that board wouldnt work given its 24 pin connectors location. Given I dont want to mess around I decided this board was a better choice and its got just about everything I wanted.

As a side bonus it also will work with the Streamcom FC8 case I in all likelyhood may move this system into sometime soon so I can go totally passive. It will depend on how this system sounds noise wise but I really like the Streamcom case. Its not worth returning my current case at the present time for the Streamcom as I dont have the cash for it.

CPU: AMD A4-Series A4-3400

In looking at this CPU v the Pentium G530 in this link the A4-3400 bests it in just about all the tests they ran, especially the FLAC test. Given that and that Windows 7 goes back to more single core usage I decided to go with this CPU. It also should allow me to use a blu-ray player and playback video with no issues on my TV (if I decided to do that later on) as well as Netflix and Youtube.

Memory: Kingston HyperX LoVo 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600MHz

This memory is more than likely overkill for this particular setup but since it wasnt too expensive and is also low voltage I thought it would be worth it. I checked to ensure it is listed as compatible on Gigabytes website. It is also 30mm tall so I shouldnt have any issues with it running into the 3.5 HDD installed in my case.

I am going to hope the stock heatsink will be under 40mm tall but we will see. If not I was planning on buying the SILVERSTONE NT07-AM2 as it will more than fit. I also plan to replace the stock 80mm fcase fan with a Noctua 80mm fan.

Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated.

 

[Dangman]

I may not have been a supporter of the AMD route but you did ok for the most part. However you did get ripped off on the RAM: For $15 more than that Kingston RAM set, you could have gotten twice as much RAM and same low voltage but with an even lower profile:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147096

With the above RAM, you're essentially paying $22.50 per 4GB of DDR3 1600 1.35V RAM, $7.5 cheaper than the set you bought. Not to mention that the RAM you bought maxes out that HTPC at 4GB of RAM since it's a two DIMM set. So overall, that RAM was a really bad buy for the money.

 

[EndersShadow]

I may not have been a supporter of the AMD route but you did ok for the most part. However you did get ripped off on the RAM: For $15 more than that Kingston RAM set, you could have gotten twice as much RAM and same low voltage but with an even lower profile:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147096

With the above RAM, you're essentially paying $22.50 per 4GB of DDR3 1600 1.35V RAM, $7.5 cheaper than the set you bought. Not to mention that the RAM you bought maxes out that HTPC at 4GB of RAM since it's a two DIMM set. So overall, that RAM was a really bad buy for the money.

Well I ended up having to cancel my original order so I decided to go for the A6-3500 instead so hopefully thats a good call.

I choose that Kingston ram because its on the approved list of Gigabyte. The Samsung is not. While I realize normally RAM isnt incompatible with boards, I figured I would err on the side of caution this time. That and I am VERY familar with Kingston memory as I have used it often in the past with never an issue.

I am aware the board is maxed out at 4 gig but honestly I am VERY hopeful I dont need more than that at a given time.

 

[EndersShadow]

Got in some of the parts today (CPU and Motherboard). So of course I had to mock things up a bit.

Parts:

I am glad I mocked it up because I know now I cant use the stock heatsink. Its simply too tall as shown in the pics below. I have decided to go with the Silverstone NT07-AM2 heatsink because unlike some of the other low profile options, I can use a different fan with it if I want. I also will be replacing the stock 80mm fan with a Noctua one.

Here are the pics:

For reference here is the entire computer case next to a standard CD case

As you can see, the HDD wont work with the heatsink as even with the HDD directly stacked on top its a good 5mm to tall.

Masterchief approves!