Commander FAT
2[H]4U
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Because some people find these games fun.
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Help me comprehend this
- Thread starter Shalafi
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Because some people find these games fun.
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Show me a better game. You can't, or you wouldn't be settling for Dark Souls.
Your choices are to hold out for a PC game worthy of your superior platform and discerning tastes, or to play Dark Souls because it will be fun despite its perceived flaws or omissions. You've chosen to play the game. And there's nothing wrong with that! It's your money, it's your time, and it's your hobby. If you enjoy it, go right ahead.
Of course, some who subscribe to your earlier arguments might say that you're funneling your money into the console gaming machine and injecting yet more energy into the vicious cycle of consolization, but you've chosen to set those arguments aside because you enjoy the game anyway. You're no different from someone who plays CoD or even Madden. You're giving them positive reinforcement for a game you feel needs improvement.
Same with Deus Ex HR. It's a great game, but it really doesn't unlock the PC's graphical potential. It's shorter than the original, and the boss battles ruin the non-linear nature. Why are you supporting games with console-level graphics, cut length, and other glaring flaws? Why are you rewarding them for their failure? Why are your standards so low?
Your argument works both ways, my friend.
Is anyone here actually saying that the underutilization of the PC as a platform is a good thing? If there were a Crysis meets HL2 meets Deus Ex PC exclusive, and it was actually fun, I'd buy it. But you can't expect people to buy crappy games just because they're PC exclusive, or ignore great games just because they're on a console. You're living proof.
People aren't arguing with you because they like consolization, they're arguing with you because they think games can be good despite it. And because you and others in this thread have the gall to call other gamers stupid because they enjoy games you dislike.
We get the games we get, and I buy the ones that I think will be fun. So sue me.
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Shalafi
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It would be incorrect to speculate that by buying Dark Souls I'm fueling consolization, because of the simple fact that Dark Souls is made by a Japanese developer that doesn't make PC games AT ALL. Japanese developers tend not to make PC games not because they can't, but because the Japanese prefer to play games on consoles rather than PC's.
Therefore, with that knowledge at hand, your argument is invalid.
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Well, that's not true, because visual novels are a very popular genre of PC game over there. But that's not why your argument is invalid.
Whether or not it's a console exclusive doesn't matter. Why it's a console exclusive doesn't matter. It doesn't support eyefinity. It doesn't support mouse/keyboard input. It is limited to 1080p (and is likely rendered at a lower resolution and upscaled). Even if in other areas this game is far superior to anything that has come before, the fact remains that you are lowering your standards by playing and enjoying it.
If you don't buy the game, and it does poorly, there's always a chance the developer will switch their focus to the PC in the hopes of making a profitable game. But if you buy the game, and it does well, then the developer has no reason to do a PC game, since you have proven to them that they can release games for the console and make a tidy profit. You are voting with your wallet for more console games. End of story.
Shalafi
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I support good games regardless of platform, however, I support console games remaining console games and I want my PC games to be PC games, not consolized PC games.
I have been a PC AND a console gamer since I was 5 years old playing Battle Chess and Pole Position on my Atari.
Your argument is invalid. It's invalid because I never once said that I don't play console games nor that I hate console games, I've only ever stated that I hate the consolization of PC games. If you want dumbed down PC games thanks to easymode console games that are ported over to PC, features being stripped out, former PC franchises like Diablo, Elder Scrolls, and Call of Duty no longer being a PC first experience being more like PS3/360 exclusives with the PC version being a port that's an afterthought loaded with DLC and stripped out features, then by all means, vote with your wallet to support that.
I'm gonna break this post into 2 distinct points...
POINT 1:
That's fucking bullshit, a straight up lie, stop with this martyr bullshit, no one is believing it except the handful of others who also believe they're martyrs. No one is telling you to do that at all. No one is telling you to stop pointing out flaws in games and no one is telling you to stop moaning "vote with your wallet", no one is forcing you to buy these games either.
What people are telling you to stop doing is to stop acting like a tool about it. I stopped replying to you when you actually made a logical post which wasn't simultaneously lashing out at other gamers, and I'm replying to you now not because of your opinion of games.
Tell me, can you see the difference between these two statements...
"COD is shit, COD has flaws X,Y,Z, people shouldn't preorder or buy COD because its setting a bad precedent, I think its bad for PC gaming and you should discourage your friends from buying it"
and...
"COD is shit, people who buy COD are all sheeple who are ignorant. People who preorder COD are ignorant fools, I'm so wise that my opinion is always right and everyone else who doesn't agree with me are ignorant"
Honestly, can you see the difference between those two arguments? No one is going to have a problem with you saying the first thing, everyone (except the other arrogant tools) is going to have a problem with the second one. Furthermore, the second statement WILL NOT HELP YOU WIN ANY SUPPORTERS. You wanna start actually helping things? Stop acting like a tool, no one will listen to the advice of someone who acts like a douchebag.
POINT 2:
Are you just incapable of realising people buy games for fun and entertainment? It seems you are. You make comments of people having low standards, ignorance and make silly comments like "help me comprehend" when people time and time again say they buy games they think will be entertaining.
If that's honestly how you feel, all I can say is that its the most naive, arrogant and ignorant way of thinking.
To assign character flaws like low standards and lack of mental capacity or knowledge based on the games people is just straight up foolish and once again, its not going to add to your supporters at all. If you refuse to acknowledge that other people might be equally intelligent, well informed and have a high morale standard and simply have a different opinion than you by voting with their wallet in a different fashion, you'll only display your own ignorance and you aren't going to convince anyone of anything other than the small handful of people (compared to the total gaming community) who agree with you already and you might even turn people who do agree with you against you.
It has nothing to do with people telling you to take the easy route and not complain, dont try and be some martyr when all you're doing is being ignorant and insulting.
POINT 1:
That's fucking bullshit, a straight up lie, stop with this martyr bullshit, no one is believing it except the handful of others who also believe they're martyrs. No one is telling you to do that at all. No one is telling you to stop pointing out flaws in games and no one is telling you to stop moaning "vote with your wallet", no one is forcing you to buy these games either.
What people are telling you to stop doing is to stop acting like a tool about it. I stopped replying to you when you actually made a logical post which wasn't simultaneously lashing out at other gamers, and I'm replying to you now not because of your opinion of games.
Tell me, can you see the difference between these two statements...
"COD is shit, COD has flaws X,Y,Z, people shouldn't preorder or buy COD because its setting a bad precedent, I think its bad for PC gaming and you should discourage your friends from buying it"
and...
"COD is shit, people who buy COD are all sheeple who are ignorant. People who preorder COD are ignorant fools, I'm so wise that my opinion is always right and everyone else who doesn't agree with me are ignorant"
Honestly, can you see the difference between those two arguments? No one is going to have a problem with you saying the first thing, everyone (except the other arrogant tools) is going to have a problem with the second one. Furthermore, the second statement WILL NOT HELP YOU WIN ANY SUPPORTERS. You wanna start actually helping things? Stop acting like a tool, no one will listen to the advice of someone who acts like a douchebag.
POINT 2:
Are you just incapable of realising people buy games for fun and entertainment? It seems you are. You make comments of people having low standards, ignorance and make silly comments like "help me comprehend" when people time and time again say they buy games they think will be entertaining.
If that's honestly how you feel, all I can say is that its the most naive, arrogant and ignorant way of thinking.
To assign character flaws like low standards and lack of mental capacity or knowledge based on the games people is just straight up foolish and once again, its not going to add to your supporters at all. If you refuse to acknowledge that other people might be equally intelligent, well informed and have a high morale standard and simply have a different opinion than you by voting with their wallet in a different fashion, you'll only display your own ignorance and you aren't going to convince anyone of anything other than the small handful of people (compared to the total gaming community) who agree with you already and you might even turn people who do agree with you against you.
It has nothing to do with people telling you to take the easy route and not complain, dont try and be some martyr when all you're doing is being ignorant and insulting.
PrincessFrosty
Supreme [H]ardness
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Wait, what? Are we still talking about video games?Its the easiest fucking thing in the world to stand up for what you believe when it comes to gaming. You dont buy what you dont like and come to forums and rant like an irrational, arrogant lunatic. Easiest thing in the world
That depends, I fully expected to get close to 1000 hours of enjoyment out of BF3 over the next 3-5 years, that's not trivial.
I have to disagree, these are examples of petitions that did nothing, it's not proof that all petitions do nothing.
I've seen numerous petitions work for gamers, the thief modding tools weren't going to made available because the effort to make them publicly usable is quite high, in the end the community petitioned and the developers responded and releasd the tools.
MW2 dedicated servers got petitioned and while it was too late to make a change to the game for MW2 that change has carried over to MW3, and Blops had them as well.
The UK government uses on-line petitions to enact change in policy, if a petition gets 100,000 votes it's automatically up for consideration irrelevant of content.
The only thing that stops petitions from working is people who discourage others to express their point of view, if there's enough demand for something then a petition is a great way to express that.
Having said the above, I also happen to agree with this, I believe that it takes both things to get change, simply not buying something isn't enough, you have to express your opinion to the developers in order for your non-sale to actually matter, otherwise they'll just blame it on piracy as usual.
Again I agree, steam groups show those online and in games at the top, which on launch day of a giant game will be a lot. Sure there are SOME bad apples but the screenshot is extremely misleading because it puts most of the bad apples at the top and ignores the other 800 odd people in the group.
They were probably online and in game when the group was loaded and then went offline before the screenshot was taken, status automatically updates in steam when people log in/out but I don't think the group selection changes until you reload the page.
It is pretty trivial. There's about a million other things you could spend that 1000 hours doing. I'm sure most people here, if they desired, could simply say "I'm not going to play games for the next year" and it wouldn't really affect them all that much, they simply dont desire. You aren't even doing that, you're saying "I'm not going to play X game", its not like there's not a huge pile of other games you can play. Gaming is not even remotely a required activity, its not even on the radar, there's some activities that you might be impacted physically/mentally/emotionally for being deprived of them... gaming is not one of them... if it is, seek help.
Last summer break I decided to not play any games at all for 3 months (since I'd wasted a previous summer playing games
) and it took maybe half a week to adjust to having a lot of extra free time and then I just moved on to other activities, infact even though I told myself I wouldn't game for 3 months I didn't end up gaming for more like 4 and a half months because no games inspired me enough to start again. It is extremely trivial to say you're not going to play X game because of Y morale high ground and then rant about it on a forum.- Joined
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And you're voting with your wallet to support the death of PC gaming all together. It happens every single time you spend money on a console exclusive. That money could have been spent on a PC exclusive. I doubt you own them all.
Just keep pumping money into the console ecosystem. Just keep buying games without features like the ones I listed previously. You're selfishly ruining PC gaming for everyone.
You know, the problem with gaming today is that gamers are stupid. If they didn't buy console games, then game publishers would pay for more PC games. They just put up with the console experience because they're either ignorant of anything better, or too weak to hold out for a better game.
I'm not sure I fully buy that line of reasoning if a person is buying on both sides of the fence.
I honestly don't buy that. Are you a gamer first or a platform fanboy first?
If I know a title is NEVER coming to the PC and it's good and I want to play it then, quite frankly, if I have the means it's pretty silly to deny myself just because it's not on another platform even if it's my "preferred" one.
Easy recent examples: Red Dead Redemption and the Uncharted series on the PS3.
A lot of them are, yes.
Theoretically, that's probably true but the sales figures speak for themselves. We're way beyond any point of ever getting to a situation where that would even be close let alone reversed. We have to deal with reality "as is."
And/or again, let's get real here: The PC side is a more expensive, too. It's cost prohibitive for a lot of people out there. That's a point that's all too easily missed. It costs a lot of money to get into PC gaming.
I guess the way I'll sum it all up for myself is this: I buy good games and don't buy bad gamesand the PC is always my first choice but if that choice doesn't exist I'll go to option 2 (a PS3 in my case) because that bolded objective overrides everything else. YMMV.
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Bone_Enterprise
Enter in the Rear
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VIDEO GAMES YAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY!
I don't think PC gaming is dying, not when BF3 is coming to show what the PC is capable of compared to consoles. I said I agree with most of what Fail said, doesn't mean I am pessimistic. In general, the gap may seem like it's narrowing, but it's actually getting wider, and console gamers are starting to see it, not just because of the differences between the versions of BF3, but what consoles have become: outdated and stagnant. The problem lies with devs making a lowest common denominator game to fit the consoles as well as PC. There is no denying that. Console gaming has infected PC gaming without us wanting it. It's only now that we are starting to see game devs actually pushing[/i] the technology the way they have always done. It was never consoles that pushed the tech, but the PC.
But the last 3 years or so, there hasn't been a single reason to upgrade a videocard. If you could play Crysis with high settings back then, then there has been no reason to upgrade your card. Until now. It's been slow, but now we are starting to see games coming out or soon to be coming out that will be utilizing DX11 or OpenGL 4.0 graphics that the current generation of consoles can't possibly handle. BF3 is a great example of that. Hopefully we will see more in the coming year. Granted, there aren't that many. But they are coming.
But to be honest, we won't see much robustness in graphics until the new consoles come out in 2 years or so. I am sure by then XBOX720 will have support for DX11 (maybe DX12 if they are working on it?). And possibly the ability to have keyboard and mouse support straight out of the box would be nice as well. Not to mention OpenGL 4.0 support (assuming Sony uses it for the PS4).
But the last 3 years or so, there hasn't been a single reason to upgrade a videocard. If you could play Crysis with high settings back then, then there has been no reason to upgrade your card. Until now. It's been slow, but now we are starting to see games coming out or soon to be coming out that will be utilizing DX11 or OpenGL 4.0 graphics that the current generation of consoles can't possibly handle. BF3 is a great example of that. Hopefully we will see more in the coming year. Granted, there aren't that many. But they are coming.
But to be honest, we won't see much robustness in graphics until the new consoles come out in 2 years or so. I am sure by then XBOX720 will have support for DX11 (maybe DX12 if they are working on it?). And possibly the ability to have keyboard and mouse support straight out of the box would be nice as well. Not to mention OpenGL 4.0 support (assuming Sony uses it for the PS4).
No not really. That is a myth tbh. Most people who have a console also has a computer. It doesn't take shitloads of money to buy a decent videocard that can run any game thats been released in the last 5 years, even Metro 2033. Not to mention, most console players are spending $60 on average for a console game, and the PC gamer is spending $50, not to mention pre order sales, Steam sales, D2D sales, etc. And that most people bought their consoles when they were $350-$400 (I bought my PS3 back when $400 was the norm). And last but not least, that big ass 40" HDTV they got in the living room.
And if you say "well they do more than play videogames on that HDTV anyways" in defense of that argument, your point is moot, because the same thing can be said of the PC.
EDIT: granted, PC AAA titles are now in the $60 range, another sign that consoles are infecting PC gaming. But as long as they do proper development of the game for the PC instead of the average console port's we've been getting, I am OK with that, albeit grudgingly.
Shalafi
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Exactly, one only needs to look at World of Warcraft, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, and Call of Duty, it's really the same old thing, and you don't need a high end computer to play any of those.
Hell, there's still people gaming on dual cores with 8800 GTS's out there and still playing most games relatively fine, albeit on lowered settings.
TwistedAegis
[H]F Junkie
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Because they're fun to play, and I can afford to purchase them.
And I'd rather get worked up over many other RL issues that actually matter than this bullcrap. But continue on with epic nerdrage - "Cheerios went from 10% of my RDV of Vitamin C to 8%! Rabble rabble rabble!
/thread
And I'd rather get worked up over many other RL issues that actually matter than this bullcrap. But continue on with epic nerdrage - "Cheerios went from 10% of my RDV of Vitamin C to 8%! Rabble rabble rabble!
/thread
Shalafi
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Because they're fun to play, and I can afford to purchase them.
And I'd rather get worked up over many other RL issues that actually matter than this bullcrap. But continue on with epic nerdrage - "Cheerios went from 10% of my RDV of Vitamin C to 8%! Rabble rabble rabble!
/thread
This is about promoting a better gaming experience for everybody and getting your money's worth.
Apparently your money must not be that important to you if you'd rather pay more for less.
Since the year 2000 when video games generally cost $50 and were hand crafted by unicorns and leprechauns out of love and sunshine, the price of oil has more than doubled, the price of wheat has increased similarly, while the price of a console video game has increased a whole 20% (which, coincidentally, is about the same price in unadjusted dollars we were paying for cartridges in the so-called "golden age.")
Sounds like gamers are getting a pretty sweet deal. But don't let me stop you from complaining...
Sounds like gamers are getting a pretty sweet deal. But don't let me stop you from complaining...
Thank God the price of quote boxes hasn't skyrocketed, but people in this thread seem to be voting with their wallets.
Sorry to say this man, but the more I read your posts, the more I think of this guy.
If I find a game fun, it'll get my money. I simply don't have the time these days to join your crusade against bad games (or should I say games that don't meet YOUR standards)
I have a wife, 13 month old son, full time job, and less time for gaming. I just want to be entertained, and if you feel that my purchase choices are ruining your gaming experience, well tough shit sir, that's not my problem
Porter_
[H]F Junkie
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Sorry to say this man, but the more I read your posts, the more I think of this guy.
http://smallscreenscoop.com/wp-cont...he-Big-Bang-Theory-sheldon-cooper-480x378.jpg
If I find a game fun, it'll get my money. I simply don't have the time these days to join your crusade against bad games (or should I say games that don't meet YOUR standards)
I have a wife, 13 month old son, full time job, and less time for gaming. I just want to be entertained, and if you feel that my purchase choices are ruining your gaming experience, well tough shit sir, that's not my problem
well said, agree with it all.
Indeed they are... most people are voting with their wallets saying "I buy games that are fun". There's a small minority who are voting with their wallets by not buying games for other reasons, but who cares about such an insignificantly small group compared to the rest of the world buying games for entertainment rather than to make a point
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was going to say something about this when i got to the end of the thread. Good form!
kevineugenius
[H]ard|Gawd
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There was once a time where there was a huge conglomeration of imperfect human beings in an imperfect environment who worked together for the greater good to overcome the drawbacks that they inherited simply by being born. They set aside their greed and desire for personal gain, they competed fairly, and all the voices of an even larger conglomeration of people who loved the original conglomerate were heard and respected. Everything John Madden said was insightful, Lewis Black had no one to make fun of, and Chinese people with daughters were respected. Insurance companies stopped advertising four hundred times per day, TV shows streamed online, horses once again grew their "Life is Good" horn on their foreheads because they were so happy, and all Americans body mass index was within acceptable bounds.
Quit griping, it'll never be fixed.
Quit griping, it'll never be fixed.
Shalafi
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It will be fixed once consumers get tired of being duped.
Consumers aren't getting duped. They are buying what entertains them, like yourself. Stop thinking that what you think is the end all be all. Reality check, you aren't the center of the universe, what you think is not fact, but opinion. And no, it is NOT fact, even as much as you think it is in that little warped world you live in. People buy games that entertain THEM, not some random like yourself that they don't even know. And if it somehow affects you, tough, they are having fun and you aren't.
theretrogamer7
n00b
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I buy games that i think look good whether they are mainstream or not (i.e. COD, Gears etc.)
I spend my money on games i want to play not games consumers want me to buy.
I spend my money on games i want to play not games consumers want me to buy.
...you have such a poor understanding of what makes a capitalist nation go 'round. You sir, will always be in the minority because you are a "hard core enthusiast". There will always be more "junk" than there are "gems".
Until you realize this, you're going to continue to bitch about games you view as "junk", and continue to give your money over for the "gems".
The people who are smart enough to realize that balancing mass popularity with good intentions isn't always easy will enjoy BOTH the "junk" and the "gems". Hell...I might even bitch a little along the way...but no way I'll miss out on a good game based on some created "moral high road".
You will change before this world does...trust me young Jedi.
Only if they all had your expectations. Clearly they do not. People are paying money for what they enjoy playing. If they enjoy playing what they are paying money for, then no, they are not being duped.
Commander FAT
2[H]4U
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Christ.
I don't suppose you'd like it if I bought Modern Warfare 3 for PC AND Xbox 360. Which I might actually do for certain reasons.
Plague_Injected
Supreme [H]ardness
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Yes people ultimately buy what entertains them but the majority aren't even aware of many of the issues that guys like Fail find to be dealbreakers. If you let people in on the current state of recycled and repackaged game releases then they will be much more likely to be more savvy with their cash. People caught onto the flogging-to-death of the Guitar Hero franchise and that plummeted hard.
I don't agree with this "put up or shutup" line at all, and people who are taking it come off as shills. Take a look at a lot of the big changes to BF3 that have been brought about solely due to consumer outcry. EA's Origin now extends sales to non-US regions now due to the 1000s of comments on EA's Facebook page whenever they advertised an awesome deal and non-Americans were greeted with prices that were both grossly inflated and not at the advertised discount.
And yes, if you do buy CODMW3 at full-price knowing full-well that is a straight expansion pack (the exact same sound effects give this away if the same graphics/weapons/textures don't...), then I do wonder what hope there is for you.
I don't agree with this "put up or shutup" line at all, and people who are taking it come off as shills. Take a look at a lot of the big changes to BF3 that have been brought about solely due to consumer outcry. EA's Origin now extends sales to non-US regions now due to the 1000s of comments on EA's Facebook page whenever they advertised an awesome deal and non-Americans were greeted with prices that were both grossly inflated and not at the advertised discount.
And yes, if you do buy CODMW3 at full-price knowing full-well that is a straight expansion pack (the exact same sound effects give this away if the same graphics/weapons/textures don't...), then I do wonder what hope there is for you.
Yes consumer outcry, but to call other's "sheeps" or "bending over" is a way of conveying your dislike of a game? Direct your hate towards the game not the people who enjoy said game. The OP seems to think that his decisions are all the right ones and is the end all be all, which he is terribly mistaken. His opinions are as valid as everyone else, he doesn't like a game? great, but to call anybody who even considers the game to be fun a sheep/bending over/ lack the skill to play a "real game" is idiotic at best. And no, people are not "uninformed" if they buy into a game, if they like it they buy it.
Plague_Injected
Supreme [H]ardness
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Fair call
Yeah.. seems to be lacking around the forums lately. Voice your opinion on the game.. not bashing each other who enjoy games just as much as any other person does.
Commander FAT
2[H]4U
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Wasn't aware I was in need of help with anything.
Plague_Injected
Supreme [H]ardness
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Plague_Injected
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Commander FAT
2[H]4U
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I didn't realize I hired you as my financial advisor.
Oh you're not my financial advisor?
Make up your mind.
Plague_Injected
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