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Help choosing new desktop hardware please

O

Overspeed

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
227
So, my current PC is now 5 years old. E8400, 4GB DDR2, 8800 GTS 512, 1TB 7200 Seagate. Time for an upgrade. Sounds easy...

The options out there today are overwhelming. Sandy this, Ivy that... with more than a couple dozen flavours and speeds of DDR3 and SSDs seem to be something no one can agree on .... ugh.

I've always respected the users on this forum so i'm asking you all for some help choosing some new PC hardware. I'm not looking for a basement budget machine, nor am I looking for something over the top. If 1 is a budget machine and 10 is over the top, i'm looking for something around 7-8 out of 10.

Here is what I'm thinking so far:

CPU: i7 2600K
MB: class ??? brand ???
RAM: 8GB DDR3 - speed ??? brand ???
Storage: stand alone SSD? or Intel HDD and SSD Smart Response?
GPU: best in the $250 - $300 range? single card - non SLI or Crossfire
PS: wattage??? brand ???
Case: Will probably put everything in my spare Antec P182
Sound: Is integrated sound good anough or dedicated Creative card?

Please let me know what you would recommend and why. I am most concerned about quality than that of budget so I will not buy cheap/budget brands. I'd rather spend a few extra bucks to get that edge.

Thanks in advance.
 
What are you doing? Gaming? Desktop work? Rendering workstation stuff?

In order:
-Unless you're doing distributed computing, you probably won't see much benefit on your HT 2600K vs. a 2500K.
-Motherboard depends on everything else in terms of layout and ability. I'm a fan of Gigabyte/Asus myself...but Asrock makes some nice budget boards these days too.
-Buy the fastest RAM you can. 2133 is cheap these days, especially for those in the USA.
-In that GPU price range, think ATI 6900 series or Nvidia 560Ti buying new barring rebates.

PSU depends on everything else. For a single GPU card 95W CPU machine, you probably won't need more than 550W. Lots of good units, mostly rebadged Seasonic units. A la Antec, XFX, Corsair, to name a few.

Sound cards depends on what you are listening to, how undamaged your ears are, and how good everything else in the audio chain is.
 
I agree that for gaming an i5 2500K is pretty much the same as the 2600K and will save some cash. Are you need a MicroCenter? They run great deals on 2500K / 2600K / 2700K chips, much cheaper than most online retailers, but it's in store only.

With SandyBridge, RAM speed does not matter above DDR3-1333. So long as your RAM is at least DDR3-1333 and rated for 1.5v (very important! Higher risks CPU damage due to the integrated memory controller in SB chips!) it really doesn't matter. Don't pay a premium for higher speed RAM.

I'd recommend picking up a 6950 2GB for about $200 used here in the FS/FT section of the forums. It'll destroy anything you can get in that range new, and saves you some cash. Some will even unlock with a BIOS flash to a 6970.

I'll watch the thread and post more later, have to head out for the moment.
 
Can you answer the stickied question so we can get a better feel for what you need/want? Specifically what you are using the machine for, and what your budget is.

Edit: Eh, I've got some work I'm trying to put off, so here's a sample build.

$229 Intel 2500K
$129 Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3H-B3
$46 G.Skill Ripjaws X 8GB DDR3-1600
$75 Antec High Current Gamer 620W
$259 XFX HD6950 2GB
 
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Thank you everyone for your replies, sorry I didn't see the sticky. I'll answer some of these and your questions now.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

This will be a "do it all" workstation. In order of priority: Video converting/rendering, gaming, Photoshop CS5 & Corel X5, general usage like internet/email/MS Office and so forth. Bottom line it will be my new MAIN machine.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

Budget is somewhat flexible. I want GOOD components but not the fastest/most insain parts out there. As said before, this will be a 7/10 or 8/10 machine.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

Ontario Canada. Will buy from tigerdirect.ca, ncix.com or newegg.ca

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

CPU
RAM
Motherbaord
Storage - best options vs price
Internet Optical - Blu-ray preferred
Sound Card - IF integrated isn't good enough
GPU - high end, but not $500
Power supply
Good case
Connectors/cables etc.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

Will use my old PCs 2x1TB hard drives for general storage & archiving.

6) Will you be overclocking?

I will OC only if it is safe to do it and the benefits are noticable.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

Dell 2408 @ 1920x1200 via HDMI

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

ASAP

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? etc.

See, i'm not rerally sure here. I'm not fully up to speed and what features exist today and what I should have. Thats why i'm here :) Would be nice to have integrated BT, USB 3.0 and at least 2 front USBs.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

I own Win7 Business x64. License transferable? not sure.

Now to your questions & opinions....

RAM ... ok ... two conflicting optinions here. From one user: fastest possible 2133, from another: 1333 max. Hmmm.

Motherbaord. I'm not interested in a cheap or budget baord. I would like solid performance and features with a proven history in releability etc.

PSU. Should be able to more than cover the needs of all components but not waste power etc.

Other thoughts.

* Should I be waiting for IVY Bridge? Benefits to do so?
* What is a good/solid internal Blu-ray drive?
* Case preferences?
* Is creative still making good SB audio cards?
* Are SSDs reliable/fast yet? I've heard both great and gross stories about SSDs.

Thank you.
 
Several tech sites have shown that there is no appreciable increase in Sandy Bridge performance above DDR3-1600, so no reason to go higher than that - and really 1600 is only marginally better than 1333, but for the minimal price difference 1600 is the way to go.

You can wait for Ivy, but it is mostly going to bring lower power chips, as opposed to higher performance. They should overclock better, but SB is already such a good overclocker that waiting isn't imperative.

If you are using a lot of CUDA supported video tools (like Adobe ones) it might be worthwhile to get a GTX 560 Ti 448 Core instead of a comparable AMD offering (the 6950/6970) as the Nvidia cards can accelerate those programs.

What kind of audio system are you using? If you are using headphones or speakers, then a sound card is a consideration, but if you intend to connect to a receiver you are better off just connecting via optical or (even better) HDMI.

SSDs are fast and relatively reliable, but still expensive compared to spinning storage. I'd recommend at least a 128GB SSD, just to avoid having to micro-manage the space, so you'll have to decide whether your budget can handle ~$160 for something like the Crucial M4.

Finally, do you have an actual budget number in mind? Or at least a not-higher-than number?
 
@forceman

OK, will go with the current sandy bridge line for now and understood about the RAM ... 1600 it is. I only use Adobe products a few times a week, and not very long at that. So a NVidia card isn't so much needed for the Cuda but I'll get only if it outperforms the AMD of choice. For audio I have a Logitech 5.1 system and am running an creative SB Audigy PICe card now. This card has never been really great as it suffers from popping noises now and then due to bad PCIe drivers. I'll buy another SB card if these issues are resolved and IF it will be better in some way that a MB's integrated sound. My budget I would prefer to cap out at around $1500.
 
I'd say try the onboard audio and then if you aren't happy get a sound card. Onboard has improved a lot and made up quite a bit of ground on discrete audio cards for a lot of uses.

Here's a Newegg.ca build:
$229 Intel 2500K
$159 Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3
$279 XFX 6950 2GB
$46 G.Skill Ripjaws X 8GB DDR3-1600
$99 Corsair TX650 V2 650W PSU
$56 Samsung Black 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-/+R 48X CD-ROM

Or you can choose the similar performance Nvidia offering:
$279 EVGA GTX 560 Ti 448 Core

If you prefer Bluetooth to Firewire, this Asus board has built-in bluetooth (you need to step up to the P8Z68-V Pro to get both):
$189 Asus P8Z68-V Gen 3
 
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Nothing can touch a 6950 2GB for about $200 used -- people have been dumping them in their hurry to get 7970s, so they're selling for a good bit less than they're really worth considering performance. In fact, I strongly recommend you buy used for as much as you can; there's a user, Enigma5, that does a lot of reviews and has a Gigabyte Z68 UD4 ($200 board) for $120 shipped with all accessories right now, for example. Can probably pick up 8GB of RAM for about $30 shipped, too. Saves you $100, or lets you get higher end components for the same cash, depends how you think about it, but either way you win. Just buy from reputable, well reviewed sellers and you'll be fine. The FS/FT community is pretty solid here -- I've yet to have a bad transaction, and I've been trading for years. Just get their info up front and you'll be fine.

So far as cases, if you're willing to spend $100 or so there are tons of great options, and a few fairly good options in the $60-80 range. Fractal Design Arc Midi, Fractal Design Define R3, Antec P280, Lian Li PC7B, etc. I'll try to find Danny Bui's list of commonly recommended cases at some point.

I'd never buy a Creative soundcard -- they've gone to shit in recent years, with terrible driver support. It's sad because the hardware is good, but the drivers are abysmal.
 
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@forceman

The reason I continue to look at dedicated audio is because in the past when integrated audio was in its infancy, there was times when the MB was in heavy use, the audio would stutter due to insufficient resources available. The same used to be true for integrated video ... when the PC was too taxed, the video signal would suffer from artifacts etc.

I see in your sig you use an NEC panel. How do you like it? I was thinking of getting Dell's latest 24" non TN panel but am open to alternatives if the quality vs. price is right. For what I do, I'll never use a TN panel. Must be PVA or IPS.
 
@silent-circuit

Thanks for your thoughts on the cases and sound card. I had no idea Creative had gone so far south but it doesn't suprise me. I'll do as @forceman suggested and use the integrated audio first and see how it goes. If that fails, what dedicated option would you suggest?
 
I really like the NEC monitor, but it was kind of an expensive extravagance. I can't stand TN panels though, and the other IPS ones (HP and Dell) I tried bothered my eyes.

As for discrete audio, I like the Asus cards. The Xonar DG is a decent low cost option (around $30) or the D1/DS/DX if you want something better. I had the DX and was very happy with it.

If you decide to overclock, you'll want an aftermarket cooler as well. This is a good cheap option:
$34 CoolerMaster Hyper 212+

If you want to go with a SSD (and I recommend it if you have the budget) the Crucial M4 is a solid choice:
$193 Crucial M4 128GB

As an aside, Newegg Canada prices make me sad.
 
Overspeed said:
Thanks for your thoughts on the cases and sound card. I had no idea Creative had gone so far south but it doesn't suprise me. I'll do as @forceman suggested and use the integrated audio first and see how it goes. If that fails, what dedicated option would you suggest?
Click to expand...

I'd look at HT OMEGA cards or ASUS' Xonar line, probably. Realtek onboard is good enough for 99% of users (even gamers) anymore, though. I have a set of reasonably nice Klipsch PC speakers and had a Creative X-Fi for a while, eventually sold it because of driver issues, but even when it was working properly I barely noticed a difference between it and Realtek onboard.
 
@forceman

What about their prices makes you sad? Too good or too bad? How do you feel about ncix.com? I have accounts at both retailers. I may just have to copy the build in your sig if you can testify to all the parts.
 
Overspeed said:
@forceman

What about their prices makes you sad? Too good or too bad? How do you feel about ncix.com? I have accounts at both retailers. I may just have to copy the build in your sig if you can testify to all the parts.
Click to expand...

Expensive. I bought my system back when the SB chips first came out - if I was buying now I'd probably get what I linked for you, although I might still get the 2600K just because I like the idea of having hyperthreading, even though I don't really get much use out of it.

Overspeed said:
I wonder if this price/retailer can be trusted:

http://www.amazon.com/NEC-LCD2490WUXi2-BK-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor/dp/B002C9KAO8

Half the price of anywhere else I have looked and is listed a new. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I believe that Amazon retailers have to accept returns as part of the deal to sell through Amazon, so at least you'd be covered that way if something wasn't what you expected.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Ok, here is my build so far. I would aprreciate a critique.

* ASUS P8Z68-V Pro GEN3 Z68 LGA1155 ATX 3PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 2 PCI B3 Motherboard
* Intel Core i7 2600K Quad Core Unlocked Hyperthreading Processor LGA1155 3.4GHZ Sandy Bridge 8MB
* G.SKILL Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL 8GB 2X4GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 Memory
* ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channel PCI-E Sound Card 24BIT Dolby Digital 116DB SNR W/ Low Profile Bracket
* LG BH12LS38 12X Blu Ray Rewriter SATA Black Lightscribe 3D Playback
* OCZ Vertex 3 120GB 2.5IN SATA3 6Gbps SandForce SF-2281 Solid State Disk Flash Drive SSD
* XFX Radeon HD 6950 800MHZ 2GB 5.0GHZ DDR5 2xDVI HDMI 2x Mini DisplayPort PCI-E Video
* Antec P280 XL-ATX Tower Case Black 3X5.25 2X2.5 6X3.5IN 2X120MM Top 1X120MM

Is the selected SSD okay? I've heard many brands/models have isues.

I dont have a PSU added yet because im not sure what wattage or brand I should use for this build. I'm also not 100% on the case. Any issue with this case on this hardware? Also need a CPU heatsink, no idea about this one. Buying from ncix.com - price for the above: $1390
 
Motherboard selection is alright. However, the board Forceman recommended (The Asus P8Z68-V Gen 3) will do what you need to and cost considerably less. I don't see the Pro version having something more that you'll need/use.

That 2600k is only useful if you plan to overclock, otherwise go with the regular 2600. (I didn't see an aftermarket cooler, so I am assuming you aren't over clocking. If you plan to, then get the Coolermaster 212+ cooler. Its an awesome cooler, I have one myself on an i7.)

I'm with Forceman, Newegg.ca makes me sad. Prices are ridiculous.

What happened to holding off on an aftermarket sound card if the onboard doesn't serve you properly? I really think you'll be fine with the onboard setup.

If it's the cheapest BD writer available, go for it.

Stay away from OCZ, not only is the company's customer service lacking recently, but that SSD is based off the Sandforce controller and there is a known random BSOD issue with Windows 7. Therefore, go with that SSD Forceman recommended.

Video card is fine. Didn't check the price, but if it's one of the lower priced 2GB models on newegg.ca, then go for it.

Good case as well, just a little bit more expensive (But everything seems to be in Canada)

As for PSU, any reputable 550+W PSU will handle your needs. If you want head room for future upgrades, then find a 650W model from a reputable manufacturer. Just make sure you post it here before committing, not all PSUs are created equal.
 
@skillz

Thats for the comments.

What is the difference between the i7 2600 and i7 2600K? For what its worth, IF my setup can handle it reliably, i'll OC to recommended levels

Undestood about OCZ, I'll go with the crutial as Forceman recommended

As for sound, I read somewhere that the Asus P8Z68-V has issues with the mic input? I guess I shouldn't care as my mic is USB anyways

Right, I need an aftermarket CPU cooler. I'll have a look at the Coolermaster 212+

Video card I selected is what everyone recommended above. I would go with the XFX 560 GTX ti 448 only if the gains justify the price or some other feature is present that is worth it (cuda for example).

As for BD, I dont care about writing to BD, i'll never do that. I just want a good reader. Quite and fast, but mostly, very relaible.

As for the case, it just happened to be a top seller on ncix.com. I don't know anything about it. I've owned Antec in the past and their very solid. I just want to be sure my hardware will fit in this case while still allowing the PCI slots to be accessible.

Lastly, I I'll go with Forceman's suggestion (I missed) for the PSU: Corsair TX650 V2 650W PSU.

This setup seems to closely match that seen in Forcemain's sig. Will this setup reach a stable 4.8Ghz without watercooling as his does?

New configuration of build:

* ASUS P8Z68-V GEN3 Z68 LGA1155 ATX 3PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 2 PCI B3 Motherboard (non Pro)
* Intel Core i7 2600K Quad Core Unlocked Hyperthreading Processor LGA1155 3.4GHZ Sandy Bridge 8MB
* G.SKILL Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL 8GB 2X4GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 Memory
* LG BH12LS38 12X Blu Ray Rewriter SATA Black Lightscribe 3D Playback
* Crucial M4 SSD Micron C400 128GB 2.5IN Solid State Disk Flash Drive SATA3 6Gbps
* XFX Radeon HD 6950 800MHZ 2GB 5.0GHZ DDR5 2xDVI HDMI 2x Mini DisplayPort PCI-E Video
* Antec P280 XL-ATX Tower Case Black 3X5.25 2X2.5 6X3.5IN 2X120MM Top 1X120MM
* Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus Direct Touch 4 Heatpipe Heatsink AM2 AM3 LGA1366 LGA1155 LGA1156 120MM
* Corsair TX650 V2 650W ATX 12V Single Rail 53A 24PIN ATX Power Supply Active PFC 80PLUS Bronze
 
Overspeed said:
What is the difference between the i7 2600 and i7 2600K? For what its worth, IF my setup can handle it reliably, i'll OC to recommended levels
Click to expand...
Pretty much the main difference is the 2600K's ability to OC past 3.6Ghz or so. That and the faster onboard video that the 2600K has.

Overspeed said:
As for the case, it just happened to be a top seller on ncix.com. I don't know anything about it. I've owned Antec in the past and their very solid. I just want to be sure my hardware will fit in this case while still allowing the PCI slots to be accessible.
Click to expand...
It should.

Overspeed said:
This setup seems to closely match that seen in Forcemain's sig. Will this setup reach a stable 4.8Ghz without watercooling as his does?
Click to expand...
Can't say as Forceman is using a better heatsink and his case is unlisted. Then there's the issue of luck as well. My best guess that with your setup, you'll reach about 4.2Ghz to 4.5Ghz.
 
As Danny said, the 4.8Ghz barrier is pretty much the top. Takes a special chip to reach those stable on air, however I do have a friend that can get 4.7Ghz stable on a 2500k, with the CM 212+ and from what I have seen the 2600k overclocks higher/better than a 2500k does, but not by much. So I'd venture to say if the chip can take it, the cooler can keep it cool.
 
Skillz said:
As Danny said, the 4.8Ghz barrier is pretty much the top. Takes a special chip to reach those stable on air, however I do have a friend that can get 4.7Ghz stable on a 2500k, with the CM 212+ and from what I have seen the 2600k overclocks higher/better than a 2500k does, but not by much. So I'd venture to say if the chip can take it, the cooler can keep it cool.
Click to expand...

The comfortable limit with my main system's particular i7-2600K is 4.6GHz in the colder winter months, and about 4.5GHz in summer. 4.7GHz currently made those temps exceed the throttle-down limit of 98°C on one of the cores when running Intel Burn Test, so I had to back it down a notch.
 
I'm not familiar with the cooler you are using, how does it compare to the CM 212+ (performance wise, not price wise)

I'm not sure what my friends daily clock is, he might have backed it down to around 4.2Ghz just because he is new to overclocking and doesn't wanna push things too hard.

What are your ambient temps in the room your computer is located, during the hotter times of the year?
 
Skillz said:
I'm not familiar with the cooler you are using, how does it compare to the CM 212+ (performance wise, not price wise)

I'm not sure what my friends daily clock is, he might have backed it down to around 4.2Ghz just because he is new to overclocking and doesn't wanna push things too hard.

What are your ambient temps in the room your computer is located, during the hotter times of the year?
Click to expand...

I should have updated my sig. I am currently using a Noctua NH-U12P SE2 cooler with two fans installed. The fan on my first-revision CoGage TRUE Spirit pooped out.

As for the ambient room temps, I had them set to 68°F / 20°C in winter and 83°F / 28°C in summer.
 
Thank you to all who helped me choose hardware for my new PC. I have finally finished building it, installing OS, overclocking etc. Here are some pictures:

img1.jpg

img2.jpg

img3.jpg


Please don't blast me for the cables & wiring, this is my first attempt at building my own PC. Final specs are:

i2700K (got for cheaper than 2600k) @4.7Ghz stable
Corair H100 CPU cooler applied using Arctic Silver 5 TIM @21degrees idle
2xCougar Vortex fans (to replace stock H100 fans-awesome!)
P8Z68-V Pro Gen3
16GB Corsair Vengeance 1600
Crucial M4 256GB
Corsair AX650 PSC
Galaxy GTX680
2x1TB Seagate HHD
Antec P280 case

Thank you again, all of you who help made the difference!
 
looks good your cables look a lot better then mine do then again i dont really care what the inside of my case looks like as long as it performs
 
Wow, you're able to get 4.7 at 21c idle temps? What voltage are you at?
Nice build, it looks great :)
 
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