• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Help – building 20 computers & phone system

P

proprehab

n00b
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
38
I am opening up a small call-center to tele-market various products. I need help building a small computer network, Avaya phone system, and possibly help with a predictive dialer. Budget isn’t so much a factor as great aesthetics and reliability.

I currently own a desktop computer that I wanted to modify or update into the server computer, and I will be purchasing 20 new computers for the workstations. These computers will not be running very sophisticated applications, just some web-based stuff and a simple database/customer info entry program. I do want dual monitors on these workstations so I can have scripts on the second screen.

First I need help turning my existing desktop into the server.
Here are the specs:
Silverstone TJ07 w/ Silencer 750W PSU
EVGA 680i Mobo w/ Q6600 2.4 g Core2Quad + Zalman Cooler
Vista Home Premium
4GB DDR2 Ram
2 x PNY NVS440 GPU
WD Raptor 150gb

Specific Questions:
Do I need to upgrade to Vista business to make the networking easier?
Should I upgrade to a SCSI drive. If so, I see fujitsu 15K drives on newegg 68 pin and 80pin…which do I need, and do I need a separate controller?
What decent GPU card should I get, so I can remove and sell the PNY cards which I won’t need in a server. I usually prefer Nvidia, though I am open.
Anything else I need to do to make this machine server ready?
Recommendations for a 24 port switch?


Then I need help with the workstation builds. I need dual monitor capability (will prob. get 22” monitors), and I want the equipment to look great. I want the office to be high-tech, cutting-edge design.

Case - Apevia X-cruiser – Red
PSU - ?
CPU - ? Maybe a E7300 Wolfdale 2.66ghz
Mobo - ?
GPU - ? Maybe Nvidia 8 series
RAM - ? 2 gb DDR2
HD – Small western digital
OS Vista Business
Keyboard / Mouse / DVD Player / UPS / monitors – I can figure these out

Please let me know your suggestions for these 20 machines.


If there are any phone system experts, I have an Avaya IPoffice 406 with 7 – 5420 phones. I will be expanding this with a station-30 and 15 additional phones, but I could use some advice on CTI and predictive dialers.

I also could use any recommendations on billing software….something that I can input the billing amount and cycle, and it can automatically charge the card or debit the checking…if the charges don’t do thru, it would fire out a collections letter or notify my CSR to make a call.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. I truly value your time and advice.
 
I suggest getting some KPCs, 2 Ghz Dual Core Celerons, 2 gigs of DDR2 and Windows XP Pro. For the workstations.
 
You're going way overboard and going to spend to much on workstation builds if your putting in high end core 2's and 8 series nvidia graphics. In the environment your going, you just need a basic workstation with a decent amount of memory. I suggest you run Windows XP pro and1GB of ram, in your situation. That way you can save money on workstations.

Buy these http://www.bytespeed.com/systems/index.html?baseModelCatId=2

Those guys are awesome. You can request XP pro on these machines.
 
I think in your situation it may be better to go with Dell since many of their low price desktops include the monitor and supporting 20 computers will end up being a major hassle.
 
I would suggest looking into a Thinclient/terminal services solution. There's virtually no troubleshooting/maintenance to do on the client, besides replacing the hardware if it gets broke.

I've heard bad things about Avaya phones, but if you already spent a good amount in it then you probably should stick with it.

For a CRM/database app look into salesforce.com
 
450 said:
I think in your situation it may be better to go with Dell since many of their low price desktops include the monitor and supporting 20 computers will end up being a major hassle.
Click to expand...
Agreed. For a situation like this, factory Dell's or HP's can save you a ton of money, and are perfectly acceptable, performance wise, for this application.
 
Thank you all for the replies, but i did look into the Dells, and a Vostro Desktop with a E7200, vista business, 2gb ram, 80gb HD, and ATI 2400 XT GPU, no monitors, specs out at $613.00, plus sales tax, which is more money than building the machine i spoke about, which will be about $575.00, and I will have a better looking case, which is my number 1 goal, along with a faster CPU.....Also, everyone ignored the server questions.
 
Keiichi said:
I would suggest looking into a Thinclient/terminal services solution. There's virtually no troubleshooting/maintenance to do on the client, besides replacing the hardware if it gets broke.
Click to expand...

Do you have any suggestions where to shop for the thinclients, and would the server i mentioned be powerfull enough to run 20 clients?
 
proprehab said:
Do you have any suggestions where to shop for the thinclients, and would the server i mentioned be powerfull enough to run 20 clients?
Click to expand...

The machine you have should be good enough to run Terminal Services. You would want to have a second server as the Domain controller though.

At this risk of getting this thread moved to the Networking & Security forum...
Thinclients:
There are companies like HP (www.hp.com) Wyse (www.wyse.com) Igel (www.igel.com). They all have the ability to support dual monitors, although that may take some extra configuration. In terms of hardware cost, they're about the same if not a tad less then a regular PC, but they are alot less headaches down the road.

Server:
What kind of applications do you need/want to have, will your users have access to email, files etc...? Have you thought about using a SaaS solution, or bringing it all in house? Answering this will make details like CTI, and CRM much easier to figure out.

Networking equipment:
A good 10/100/1000 linksys switch should do you fine, but you'll probably want a router and some sort of firewall appliance to go with it.
 
 
proprehab said:
Thank you all for the replies, but i did look into the Dells, and a Vostro Desktop with a E7200, vista business, 2gb ram, 80gb HD, and ATI 2400 XT GPU, no monitors, specs out at $613.00, plus sales tax, which is more money than building the machine i spoke about, which will be about $575.00, and I will have a better looking case, which is my number 1 goal, along with a faster CPU.....Also, everyone ignored the server questions.
Click to expand...

Ok on the server. The short answer is no it will not work.

Long answer.
Even with vista business it is going to get pissed with more then 10 connections going to it. Also working with 20 machines you really want a domain. This means windows server. With it you get:
active directory(domains) which gives you managed point for user rights
internal dns
group policy's(limit what a user can do)
etc.

Also with windows server you really want a real server. Something with certified drivers and what not. I'd go with a dell or hp server. Get a single xeon, hardware raid controller, 2 arrays(raid 1 for the os and a raid 1 or 5 for data), dual nics for failover etc. I'd run windows sbs if you want internal email, if not get windows 2008 std. Go with a dell rd1000 for backups or a tape drive with backupexec. Get eset nod or kaspersky enterprise and have managed av which means the server controls the av on every workstation.

Also look at the dell vostro 200 slim tower. Easy to hide away and doesn't look that bad. Get a dell rep as they can help lower the cost some(20 machines and a server on a single quote can mean a good discount). Besides dell loves to throw in monitors for next to nothing with machines(at least the first screen). Get them with vista business with a downgrade to xp pro. That way you can take them to vista in the future if you want/need too.

One thing you want to consider is a warranty. You get those dell machines you get a part in your hand the next day if something breaks. They also are pretty quite. They also look a lot more professional then that case you posted.

Sounds like you might be a little over your head. I say this because of the question of vista home for a server OS. While YeOldeStonecat, marley1, myself and others can give you some help it might be time to consider getting a local consultant to help you out. A managed network can really help and having someone who knows what they are doing to set it up can also really save you some time.
 
Dells and HPs come with warranties and (optional) on-site service contracts which may be cheaper in the long run than fixing everything on your own. Downtime=$$$ in any business.

For the server, you don't need SAS or SCSI unless you think you're going to have significant file serving going on. You'll get more benefit from SATA and GB Ethernet throughout than 100MB Ethernet and SCSI, for example. The objective is to balance the system to your needs.
 
Michael Daly said:
Dells and HPs come with warranties and (optional) on-site service contracts which may be cheaper in the long run than fixing everything on your own. Downtime=$$$ in any business.

For the server, you don't need SAS or SCSI unless you think you're going to have significant file serving going on. You'll get more benefit from SATA and GB Ethernet throughout than 100MB Ethernet and SCSI, for example. The objective is to balance the system to your needs.
Click to expand...

Personally I would recommend sas if possible for the server as it really can help speed things up. It is not required(most of are servers run sata) but it is nice. With 20 users I'd probability run a 2 drive raid 1 for the os and at least 4 drives in a raid 5 for the data using sata drives. I'd run both off the same hardware raid controller(perc6 in the dells).

I agree with a new setup get run cat6 for gigabit and get a gigabit switch. The vostros I recommended don't come with gigabit but the optiplexs do. With us we usualy just throw a nic in the vostros for shops running gigabit.
 
swatbat said:
Ok on the server. The short answer is no it will not work.

Long answer.
Even with vista business it is going to get pissed with more then 10 connections going to it. Also working with 20 machines you really want a domain. This means windows server. With it you get:
active directory(domains) which gives you managed point for user rights
internal dns
group policy's(limit what a user can do)
etc.

Also with windows server you really want a real server. Something with certified drivers and what not. I'd go with a dell or hp server. Get a single xeon, hardware raid controller, 2 arrays(raid 1 for the os and a raid 1 or 5 for data), dual nics for failover etc. I'd run windows sbs if you want internal email, if not get windows 2008 std. Go with a dell rd1000 for backups or a tape drive with backupexec. Get eset nod or kaspersky enterprise and have managed av which means the server controls the av on every workstation.

Also look at the dell vostro 200 slim tower. Easy to hide away and doesn't look that bad. Get a dell rep as they can help lower the cost some(20 machines and a server on a single quote can mean a good discount). Besides dell loves to throw in monitors for next to nothing with machines(at least the first screen). Get them with vista business with a downgrade to xp pro. That way you can take them to vista in the future if you want/need too.

One thing you want to consider is a warranty. You get those dell machines you get a part in your hand the next day if something breaks. They also are pretty quite. They also look a lot more professional then that case you posted.

Sounds like you might be a little over your head. I say this because of the question of vista home for a server OS. While YeOldeStonecat, marley1, myself and others can give you some help it might be time to consider getting a local consultant to help you out. A managed network can really help and having someone who knows what they are doing to set it up can also really save you some time.
Click to expand...



The domain server, is this a separate, second server, or just upgraded software on the main & only server? Also, the 20 units is for the initial operations, and we hope to expand to 60 stations within 12-18 months. Does this fact change what i should buy now, or with this Domain server will i be able to just add more workstations, or do i need a new server for each x# machines?

Also, with the raid configs, are you recomending all SAS drives in the raid, or was it a single or dual SAS, OR sata drives in a raid?

I think i am going to call Dell, but it is nice to know enough about the equipment so i get what i need, but nore more or less.
 
proprehab said:
The domain server, is this a separate, second server, or just upgraded software on the main & only server? Also, the 20 units is for the initial operations, and we hope to expand to 60 stations within 12-18 months. Does this fact change what i should buy now, or with this Domain server will i be able to just add more workstations, or do i need a new server for each x# machines?

Also, with the raid configs, are you recomending all SAS drives in the raid, or was it a single or dual SAS, OR sata drives in a raid?

I think i am going to call Dell, but it is nice to know enough about the equipment so i get what i need, but nore more or less.
Click to expand...

You have a windows server. On it you can run domain servers as well as dns, file services, web services, email, etc. If you think of expanding that much you need to look at windows server std. Personally I would go with the 64bit software if possible because it gives you the ability to have more then 4 gigs of ram without buying enterprise software.

Windows server has user licenses known as cals. Pretty much you need a user cal for every user on the network or a device cal for every computer on the network. Most people just get user cals. Server std comes with 5 cals generally. Pretty much at first you would buy a server with it and 15 extra cals. As you add machines you buy more cals and install them on the server. A single server should handle 60 users fine if it is just authenication, basic file services, etc. I'd go with sas drives for future expansion. As you grow though you might want to add another server for some redunancy on things like the active directory.

Also for a domain you need xp pro or vista business/ultimate. If you think you are going to expand like this look at getting a volume license for office if you need it and windows. Make a corporate image where you can just ghost a new machine with everything it needs when it comes in.

Edit:

Active directory is supported on sbs, standard, enterprise, and datacenter versions of windows server. Their is no extra fee for it.
 
Question: Why does a workstation need such powerful hardware if its just a call center? (I'm just curious)

An e7200 seems overkill since a $400 dell with a monitor + pentium dual-core seems very well up to the task. If you really want more power you could do a simple pin-mod on each of them (bad or good thing for this environment?).
 
450 said:
Question: Why does a workstation need such powerful hardware if its just a call center? (I'm just curious)

An e7200 seems overkill since a $400 dell with a monitor + pentium dual-core seems very well up to the task. If you really want more power you could do a simple pin-mod on each of them (bad or good thing for this environment?).
Click to expand...

To be fair the 400 dollar monitor and cpu combos only come with the home os and usually a 19 inch monitor(20 inch sometimes). I agree he could get away with less though and save some cash.
 
proprehab said:
Thank you all for the replies, but i did look into the Dells, and a Vostro Desktop with a E7200, vista business, 2gb ram, 80gb HD, and ATI 2400 XT GPU, no monitors, specs out at $613.00, plus sales tax, which is more money than building the machine i spoke about, which will be about $575.00, and I will have a better looking case, which is my number 1 goal, along with a faster CPU.
Click to expand...

The Dell PCs comes with significantly better PSUs than the inlcuded PSU with the Apevia X-Cruiser cases, assuming that you are going for the Apevia X-Cruiser with PSU combo.

Also, check out a site called www.gotapex.com. You can find Dell deals there every week or so. And as people have said, the Dell PCs look a lot more "professional" than some case with a bunch of LEDs and bling.
 
I agree about the Dell comments. Your time is in no way worth the hassle it will be to build 20 boxes from scratch and then do OS loads on them, then support the parts that will fail within 60 days AND continue to support them later from your own reserve stock of parts. I've done it both ways and I will never again build out anything less than a high-performance server (or my home systems). It's never worth it in the end when it's a professional work environment, and especially not for $25-40 each, or whatever the cost differential you quoted was.

Not only that, but call them and have a rep work out a deal. 20 boxes is not a big order but they will want to start a good relationship with you. The one thing I dislike about Dell though is they always want to give you freaking VGA monitors, you have to pretty much specifically ask for DVI, even in this day and age.
 
wildfire99 said:
I agree about the Dell comments. Your time is in no way worth the hassle it will be to build 20 boxes from scratch and then do OS loads on them, then support the parts that will fail within 60 days AND continue to support them later from your own reserve stock of parts. I've done it both ways and I will never again build out anything less than a high-performance server (or my home systems). It's never worth it in the end when it's a professional work environment, and especially not for $25-40 each, or whatever the cost differential you quoted was.

Not only that, but call them and have a rep work out a deal. 20 boxes is not a big order but they will want to start a good relationship with you. The one thing I dislike about Dell though is they always want to give you freaking VGA monitors, you have to pretty much specifically ask for DVI, even in this day and age.
Click to expand...

The better screens with the adjustable stands have dvi. The cheaper screens with the stand with no height adjustment do not(generally). Yea I wish all of their screens would just include dvi.
 
I agree save yourself a lot of time and headaches and go with pre built Dell or HP oem PC's for your workstations.
 
Ok, I am sold on the Dells....as for the bling issue on the original case, the office layout was to be fun & colorful...think google, not goldman
 
proprehab said:
Ok, I am sold on the Dells....as for the bling issue on the original case, the office layout was to be fun & colorful...think google, not goldman
Click to expand...

As many dells as I install I would still recommend checking out HP as well just because you can. They make solid stuff as well.

First step is to get a dell rep. Be prepared to haggle on price some. Having quotes for things off their site on special and from others can help. The school install I'm working on now was 1 server and 76 desktops. We were able to cut almost 20 grand off the quote that dell first gave them. We got them upgraded to optiplexs over the vostros as well.
 
swatbat said:
The better screens with the adjustable stands have dvi. The cheaper screens with the stand with no height adjustment do not(generally). Yea I wish all of their screens would just include dvi.
Click to expand...

Actually all of them do now I believe.

Even the 17" and 19" have DVI even if they are called analog. My e198wfp came with the Vostro 200 and was labeled as analog but had a VGA and DVI connection and came with cables for both.
 
i would say get a more stable motherboard if you are going to use your current desktop as the server (much better really to go for a Dell or HP), because the 680i's are not very stable...
 
Yes, haggle with the rep. Your volume won't be as high as swatbats, so your discount won't be as good as his, lol (20k/76=$265 off per desktop... or you can guess with the server in there, but theres only one).

An E7200 Vostro with 2GB of RAM (120GB HDD, onboard audio/video, GbLAN, mATX/300W PSU) and a 22" LCD should be $500 each. Since you're getting 20 of them, ask for a nice discount. :p Then say you need a cheap server, nothing special, and ask for a discount on the service contract.
 
450 said:
Actually all of them do now I believe.

Even the 17" and 19" have DVI even if they are called analog. My e198wfp came with the Vostro 200 and was labeled as analog but had a VGA and DVI connection and came with cables for both.
Click to expand...

I just got in almost 80 17 inch screens that are vga only from them. More are starting to have it though which is nice.

enginurd said:
Yes, haggle with the rep. Your volume won't be as high as swatbats, so your discount won't be as good as his, lol (20k/76=$265 off per desktop... or you can guess with the server in there, but theres only one).

An E7200 Vostro with 2GB of RAM (120GB HDD, onboard audio/video, GbLAN, mATX/300W PSU) and a 22" LCD should be $500 each. Since you're getting 20 of them, ask for a nice discount. :p Then say you need a cheap server, nothing special, and ask for a discount on the service contract.
Click to expand...

Yea you never know what you can get off them. In are case we found some real good deal that was limited to like 5 machines. We got are rep to quote out 76 at the sale price. We always push on prices if we are buying a few machines. Even orders of say 10 machines and a server we can usually get a good deal kicked off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top