HDA Digital X-Mystique question

[PowerLlama]

I've had this sound card for a while now, and like it quite a bit. My question is, does anyone else have issues with it and Quake 4? For me, it won't let me put it on surround sound and it tells me my sound card doesn't support "OpenAL." I don't even know what OpenAL is.

Does anyone know if they're going to release a driver update for the cards anytime soon, or if I'm going to be stuck playing Q4 through my headphones.

 

[SilverMK3]

www.openal.com

 

[PowerLlama]

Thanks for the help there. oh wait, that didn't help at all. I was more of trying to see if anyone else had this sound card and problem with Q4.

 

[Moofasa~]

Is there like a Quake 4 demo? I have a HDA but not Quake 4 so I can't really test it (unless of course there's like a Quake 4 demo, then I would).

 

[mjz_5]

u have to go to the windows sounds and audio devices in control panel and make sure its set on 5.1 surround sound.. you have to set this every time u log onto windows because it doesn't keep it for some reason

 

[mjz_5]

u have to go to the windows sounds and audio devices in control panel and make sure its set on 5.1 surround sound.. you have to set this every time u log onto windows because it doesn't keep it for some reason

this way, it will allow you to set it to surround sound.. as for the other options, we're out of luck

 

[PowerLlama]

thanks for the help, I'll try it when I get home later.

 

[macrospect]

Heh glad I sold this card when I did! BlueGears has really been slacking with driver releases too.

X-FI all the way

 

[mouawad]

X-FI sounds worse and costs more ......and no DDL

yeh well done

 

[Chastity]

X-FI sounds worse and costs more ......and no DDL

yeh well done

Uhmm... not really, as it really depends on the model. The Elite Pro with the CS4398s are excellent for analog runs to a HT rig, and the new +15dB option solves the level output issue with HT amplifiers. In fact, it can be better than your amp's DAC, assuming your manufacturer cheaped out. At worst, it will definately be on par, and more than likely be more detailed.

Yes, it's an expensive card, but if you want the audio quality of your DD Live output AND have the gaming support of the Creative card, it's the way to go.

I also do some recording / analog ripping, so the card for me was a no brainer.

 

[Chastity]

I've had this sound card for a while now, and like it quite a bit. My question is, does anyone else have issues with it and Quake 4? For me, it won't let me put it on surround sound and it tells me my sound card doesn't support "OpenAL." I don't even know what OpenAL is.

Does anyone know if they're going to release a driver update for the cards anytime soon, or if I'm going to be stuck playing Q4 through my headphones.

Don't use the OpenAL mode, and make sure yo have 5.1 set in Windows Sound app.

You could get an OpenAL DirectSound wrapper, and use that. I know Jedi Academy had that in the install. (OpenAL32.dll) I can link it if you want to try it.

 

[mouawad]

Uhmm... not really, as it really depends on the model. The Elite Pro with the CS4398s are excellent for analog runs to a HT rig, and the new +15dB option solves the level output issue with HT amplifiers. In fact, it can be better than your amp's DAC, assuming your manufacturer cheaped out. At worst, it will definately be on par, and more than likely be more detailed.

Yes, it's an expensive card, but if you want the audio quality of your DD Live output AND have the gaming support of the Creative card, it's the way to go.

I also do some recording / analog ripping, so the card for me was a no brainer.

the price of the elite pro is just ......*RAPE* yes it's a decent gaming card but outrageously expensive.

i'd rather have the mystique with DDL for gaming ......who needs EAX3/4 anyway??? i prefer the better seperation for surround on the mystique through digital over analogue on any x-fi model ....so do others with the mystique.

and a Emu 0404/1212 for music

still LOADS cheaper than 1 elite pro and imho a much better quality solution ...albeit over 2 cards

 

[jebo_4jc]

Ok Ok. EAX is good for gaming, so the X-Fi is a good gaming card. Some people prefer the DDL cards, even though games don't support it. Anyway, let's try to stay on topic.

I'm interested to see what the OP finds, since gaming support with non-EAX cards can be a bit of a struggle.

 

[mouawad]

Ok Ok. EAX is good for gaming, so the X-Fi is a good gaming card. Some people prefer the DDL cards, even though games don't support it. Anyway, let's try to stay on topic.

I'm interested to see what the OP finds, since gaming support with non-EAX cards can be a bit of a struggle.

games don't support the mystique??

lol ...where else would i get my daily laugh w/out the internut

for your benefit mystique supports EAX2 but not 3 or 4.

 

[jebo_4jc]

games don't support the mystique??

lol ...where else would i get my daily laugh w/out the internut

for your benefit mystique supports EAX2 but not 3 or 4.

It was an over-generalization, I realize, but the fact remains that, largely, Creative Labs makes the only "real" gamer cards. I can point to games that have EAX "on" or "off" mode, and "on" = EAX 3+ only. Therefore, a non-CL card will not support that particular game's EAX. And, for whatever reason, there is no competition for EAX, hence my "games do not support" non-CL cards.
Anyway.....staying on topic

 

[BBA]

I've had this sound card for a while now, and like it quite a bit. My question is, does anyone else have issues with it and Quake 4? For me, it won't let me put it on surround sound and it tells me my sound card doesn't support "OpenAL." I don't even know what OpenAL is.

Does anyone know if they're going to release a driver update for the cards anytime soon, or if I'm going to be stuck playing Q4 through my headphones.

Try this:
Set your speakers to 5.1 mode,make sure it's synchronized with the control panel setting as well (not just the setting in your card).

The Quake 4 should let you set surround mode after doing this. You will not get OpenAL unless you have a sound card that OpenAL can communicate with (read that as a creative labs sound card).

 

[macrospect]

X-FI sounds worse and costs more ......and no DDL

yeh well done

First I can care less about DDL, and second from first hand experience the drivers work better than the HDA did, although they are a little bloated. The X-FI is a way better card for recording as well, and the crystalizer is absolutely amazing.

I would never look back (Trust me I was never a Creative fan until this card)

 

[dderidex]

games don't support the mystique??

lol ...where else would i get my daily laugh w/out the internut

for your benefit mystique supports EAX2 but not 3 or 4.

Supports EAX1, EAX2, and DirectSound3d (all in software).

Doesn't support EAX3, EAX4, EAX5, or OpenAL.

 

[mouawad]

First I can care less about DDL, and second from first hand experience the drivers work better than the HDA did, although they are a little bloated. The X-FI is a way better card for recording as well, and the crystalizer is absolutely amazing.

I would never look back (Trust me I was never a Creative fan until this card)

as the elite pro is the only one with a decent DAC i wouldn't mind hearing this for music purposes even though you can buy an Emu 0404 for half the price with the same quality, i'm not at all interested in 'crystaliser' as i play all my stuff in lossless and don't want my sound messed with.

for gaming i'm sure the x-fi is a step up from the audigy2/2zs mainly for headphone users but not enough considering the cost of the top model ......for pure gaming performance it's the only choice if you absoultely must have EAX 3/4/5 but the surround channel seperation and overall surround quality from my audigy2 -> mystique is like night and day. on the creative sounds were a bit muddled, bass from explosions etc were just average and rear channels almost seemed like they were just mapped from the front. i just can't see how cmss has improved that much from audigy2 -> x-fi to make it as good as DDL on the mystique.

seeing how the lowest x-fi model still costs twice the price of a mystique and the elite pro is about 5 times the price it's beyond me why ppl rave about it.

 

[macrospect]

The DAC's are good enough for what i use this card for. Its nice having optical outputs and coax capibilities too. I do totally agree that the elite pro is way too much for a soundcard. I have no problem settling for a Platinum or Xtreme Music though.

To be honest there is little difference in sound between the 2 cards, or what I can hear anyway. I just think that the X-FI is easier to use- mostly the software aspect of it all though.

I think with better drivers the HDA would be an excellent card. Its just for some reason on my system, the soundcard drivers always caused my computer to crash and restart, randomly, which when you are having fun playing a game, gets old REALLY fast.

I think that a person would be more than happy with either card, I just like using the breakout box with the X-FI.

 

[dderidex]

as the elite pro is the only one with a decent DAC i wouldn't mind hearing this for music purposes even though you can buy an Emu 0404 for half the price with the same quality, i'm not at all interested in 'crystaliser' as i play all my stuff in lossless and don't want my sound messed with.

Really, all the Soundblasters from the Audigy 2 up have "decent DACs". Indeed, when using the kx drivers (which provide options for bit-perfect playback even on the A2), audiophiles tend to rave even about the A2.

The problem with Creative is not the hardware - it never was, really. Just driver issues.

but the surround channel seperation and overall surround quality from my audigy2 -> mystique is like night and day. on the creative sounds were a bit muddled, bass from explosions etc were just average and rear channels almost seemed like they were just mapped from the front. i just can't see how cmss has improved that much from audigy2 -> x-fi to make it as good as DDL on the mystique.

That's a rather remarkable claim. No, INCREDIBLY remarkable.

Given that Creative Labs CREATED EAX, in all its forms, and that games that support EAX were *written on* Audigy cards....I think it's safe to say that whatever the difference in audio are *in games* between the Audigy and the Mystique, the Audigy is what the developer INTENDED it to sound like, and the Mystique has it wrong.

 

[jebo_4jc]

as the elite pro is the only one with a decent DAC

I don't pretend to be an extreme audiophile, but how are the DAC's on the rest of the X-Fi's lacking? Games sound great to me.

the surround channel seperation and overall surround quality from my audigy2 -> mystique is like night and day. on the creative sounds were a bit muddled, bass from explosions etc were just average and rear channels almost seemed like they were just mapped from the front. i just can't see how cmss has improved that much from audigy2 -> x-fi to make it as good as DDL on the mystique.

I don't understand how people say these kinds of things. "bass was average." Wouldn't this be a function of soundcard + speakers + EQ settings? I don't quite see how upgrading from one soundcard to another really improves bass much. Again, I'm no audiophile, so if somebody can try to prove to me that one soundcard's bass is better than another then go for it. I don't see how upgrading from Soundcard A to Soundcard B can do anything that simply opening up the EQ and cranking up the bass can't do.

 

[jebo_4jc]

.....

LOL we were posting basically the same thing at the same time

 

[Donnie27]

I've had this sound card for a while now, and like it quite a bit. My question is, does anyone else have issues with it and Quake 4? For me, it won't let me put it on surround sound and it tells me my sound card doesn't support "OpenAL." I don't even know what OpenAL is.

Does anyone know if they're going to release a driver update for the cards anytime soon, or if I'm going to be stuck playing Q4 through my headphones.

As "Chastity" said you need a wrapper. Just like everything else for these cards, it needs a way for the Hammer or P4 processor to do the Work for the sound card. The card just encodes DDL but can't do real (Hardware 3D) sound processing. It can't even do EAX 2, that's passed off to the Processor as well. The big improvement for EAX was made after EAX 2 or from EAX 3 on, EAX 2 is close to being a Gimmick. It's reverb and one hardware effect. EAX 3+ is Reverbs and at least 4 Effects. I'm told OpenAL causes a hit to performance. I'm not sure though since I don't use a Software based Sound Card.

Donnie27

 

[mouawad]

Really, all the Soundblasters from the Audigy 2 up have "decent DACs". Indeed, when using the kx drivers (which provide options for bit-perfect playback even on the A2), audiophiles tend to rave even about the A2.

The problem with Creative is not the hardware - it never was, really. Just driver issues.



That's a rather remarkable claim. No, INCREDIBLY remarkable.

Given that Creative Labs CREATED EAX, in all its forms, and that games that support EAX were *written on* Audigy cards....I think it's safe to say that whatever the difference in audio are *in games* between the Audigy and the Mystique, the Audigy is what the developer INTENDED it to sound like, and the Mystique has it wrong.

start a new post on head-fi forums about how the audigy2 and up have great DAC's that audiophiles rave about.....it will be amusing to say the least

any card with spdif output can pass bit-perfect playback that's the whole point of a digital pass thru ....i don't think you even understand the difference between analogue and digital lol. if you're going to point the finger at least know what the hell you are talking about, at least the basic stuff like this.

with regards to your other comment ask most ppl with a mystique and get them to compared against a creative card with regards to surround capabilities. i think most of them will say the creatives suck ass compared to the mystique in this respect. I am talking about channel seperation and seperation quality, this has NOTHING to do with EAX, so why did you even bring up EAX????? once again you show a lack of knowledge in this department. BTW EAX is not some magical component that creative would like you to think it is......much like 'crystaliser'.

Next you're going to say 99% of audiophiles rave about crystaliser too eh?

If you think the DAC capability on anything but the elite pro is comparable to the price paid for the card then i suggest you do some research before you start flaming someone with proper knowledge on the hardware. The DAC on all x-fi's bar the elite pro is basically the same quality than on the audigy2 .......i'm sorry but 'crystaliser' doesn't magically turn an extreme music x-fi into an emu 0404 for dac quality.....it's not happening. Never mind the fact that a 0404 is half the price of the extreme music

So at the end of the day you're paying a hefty price for EAX 3/4/5 extensions which is basically enhanced reverb and the magical 'crystaliser'. When you cut through the bullsh*t of creatives marketing things look very different under the microscope.

Of course it actually helps quite a bit if you can distinguish between analogue/digital and surround/eax.

 

[mouawad]

I don't pretend to be an extreme audiophile, but how are the DAC's on the rest of the X-Fi's lacking? Games sound great to me.
I don't understand how people say these kinds of things. "bass was average." Wouldn't this be a function of soundcard + speakers + EQ settings? I don't quite see how upgrading from one soundcard to another really improves bass much. Again, I'm no audiophile, so if somebody can try to prove to me that one soundcard's bass is better than another then go for it. I don't see how upgrading from Soundcard A to Soundcard B can do anything that simply opening up the EQ and cranking up the bass can't do.

ask anyone with a revolution card about the quality of it over a creative card .....the same is true of the mystique, especially when talking about surround sound quality.

its just sad that creative have the monopoly in the games market with respect to EAX because other manufacturers produce cards with better quality DAC's than creative.

 

[dderidex]

You sound like a very confused and very angry person, but let's see what we can do about your issues.

start a new post on head-fi forums about how the audigy2 and up have great DAC's that audiophiles rave about.....it will be amusing to say the least

They are decent, that's all. Indeed, the DACs on the Audigy 2 and up actually have better specs than the Audiotrak Prodigy series. As good as the M-Audio Revo. Don't believe me, then look up the specs yourself!

any card with spdif output can pass bit-perfect playback that's the whole point of a digital pass thru ....i don't think you even understand the difference between analogue and digital lol. if you're going to point the finger at least know what the hell you are talking about, at least the basic stuff like this.

Who said anything about digital? I'm talking analog only here.

with regards to your other comment ask most ppl with a mystique and get them to compared against a creative card with regards to surround capabilities. i think most of them will say the creatives suck ass compared to the mystique in this respect. I am talking about channel seperation and seperation quality, this has NOTHING to do with EAX, so why did you even bring up EAX?????

Granted, you mentioned channel seperate in part, but then you went on to say:

bass from explosions etc were just average and rear channels almost seemed like they were just mapped from the front.

...which has nothing to do with channel seperation

and...

i just can't see how cmss has improved that much from audigy2 -> x-fi to make it as good as DDL on the mystique.

...which has nothing to do with this topic at ALL. CMSS is a surround sound virtualization algorith and should NEVER be used in games EVER (unless you are using headphones). It'll just bugger everything up!

And what does a surround sound virtualization algorithm have ANYTHING to do with realtime 5.1 compression of a DirectSound source to a digital stream? I mean, you aren't even comparing two things in the same TOPIC as each other!

Who's lost here?

once again you show a lack of knowledge in this department. BTW EAX is not some magical component that creative would like you to think it is......much like 'crystaliser'.

Next you're going to say 99% of audiophiles rave about crystaliser too eh?

Ummm....who said anything about the crapilizer? Oh, that's right, only you. You seem to get confused fairly easily - we weren't even talking about that.

If you think the DAC capability on anything but the elite pro is comparable to the price paid for the card then i suggest you do some research before you start flaming someone with proper knowledge on the hardware. The DAC on all x-fi's bar the elite pro is basically the same quality than on the audigy2 .......

Seriously, now. The spec difference in the DAC between the Audigy 2 and the X-Fi Elite Pro is not THAT significant.

Cheapest 3 X-Fi models = CS4382
(24 bit, 114db dynamic range, -100 THD+N, 192 khz sample rate)

Elite Pro = CS4398
(24 bit, 120db dynamic range, -107 THD+N, 192 khz sample rate)

For comparison, the HDA Mystique that you are raving about is using the CMI8768 as its DAC, and that can only do:
(24 bit, 94db dynamic range, -75.4 THD+N, 192 khz sample rate)

Which is, to put it mildly, TRULY CRAP.

i'm sorry but 'crystaliser' doesn't magically turn an extreme music x-fi into an emu 0404 for dac quality.....it's not happening. Never mind the fact that a 0404 is half the price of the extreme music

And again with the crapilizer that nobody else mentioned. Are you having an argument with yourself in your head or something?

So at the end of the day you're paying a hefty price for EAX 3/4/5 extensions which is basically enhanced reverb and the magical 'crystaliser'. When you cut through the bullsh*t of creatives marketing things look very different under the microscope.

It's basically enhance reverb, true. BASICALLY. In the same way that a speaker is BASICALLY just a can on a string. Try playing Battlefield 2 with EAX on (full and properly supported, EAX 5) and with it off, and see the difference.

 

[jebo_4jc]

ask anyone with a revolution card about the quality of it over a creative card .....the same is true of the mystique, especially when talking about surround sound quality.

its just sad that creative have the monopoly in the games market with respect to EAX because other manufacturers produce cards with better quality DAC's than creative.

Ask anyone with a Creative card that doesn't have some anti-CL slant if their Audigy/X-Fi/whatever sounds good in games and they will say "yes." Maybe you have a better ear than 99.9% of the population, and you can detect the minute differences between a Creative DAC vs a Mystique DAC while playing a game. I cannot, and neither can the other 99.9% of the population. However, I can hear the difference between non EAX 3+ games and games with EAX 3+. No denying that EAX 3+ makes games sound much better, proprietary or not.
Therefore, Creative = the best gaming card 99.9% of the time. Now let's stop treadjacking.

 

[mouawad]

Originally Posted by mouawad
start a new post on head-fi forums about how the audigy2 and up have great DAC's that audiophiles rave about.....it will be amusing to say the least

They are decent, that's all. Indeed, the DACs on the Audigy 2 and up actually have better specs than the Audiotrak Prodigy series. As good as the M-Audio Revo. Don't believe me, then look up the specs yourself!

^^^^ you've gone from audiophiles raving about the DAC quality to admitting they;re just decent ......it's amazing how we change out minds when we realise how wrong we are.





Really, all the Soundblasters from the Audigy 2 up have "decent DACs". Indeed, when using the kx drivers (which provide options for bit-perfect playback even on the A2), audiophiles tend to rave even about the A2.

how can you be talking about anything BUT digital? bit-perfect through a DAC on a pc sound card through analog .....HAH ROFL......what colour is the sky above you today???



Originally Posted by mouawad
bass from explosions etc were just average and rear channels almost seemed like they were just mapped from the front.

...which has nothing to do with channel seperation

^^^ really? again ROFL ...please try harder it's not that difficult really ....in my world differences between front and rear seperation would be classified as surround issues. in your world ???? clearly not. how strange that is




Seriously, now. The spec difference in the DAC between the Audigy 2 and the X-Fi Elite Pro is not THAT significant.

Cheapest 3 X-Fi models = CS4382
(24 bit, 114db dynamic range, -100 THD+N, 192 khz sample rate)

Elite Pro = CS4398
(24 bit, 120db dynamic range, -107 THD+N, 192 khz sample rate)

For comparison, the HDA Mystique that you are raving about is using the CMI8768 as its DAC, and that can only do:
(24 bit, 94db dynamic range, -75.4 THD+N, 192 khz sample rate)

Which is, to put it mildly, TRULY CRAP.



^^^ TRULY CRAP hahahahaha you're such a dumbass that you actually think you can substantiate your claims through copying card specs. have you even listened to both cards??? no you haven't i'm sure......it's like saying a pentium4 is faster than an athlon64 because of the faster clock speed. totally clueless
does the x-fi automatically resample everything to 48khz like every other card in their line-up??? and then cover it up with fancy tech babble like 'crystaliser'
i think you're quite the retard ....probably why you paid 2-3 times more than you needed to for an inferior product. but then creative has done this for years and years so they know idiots will buy their products because they always do.



You sound like a very confused and very angry person, but let's see what we can do about your issues.

^^^ you should be angry for giving all that money to creative for a glorified audigy 2. going by this discussion i don't think you're qualified for anything but milk monitor so let's stop pretending that you have a clue mmmmm k?




Jebo be happy with your creative card + EAX ....i'm happy with my mystique that does a MUCH better job at surround than any creative card on the market at half the price of the cheapest x-fi and has 2 digital outputs as standard without a GAY front panel and still sounds better w./out EAX 3+.

Hopefully a manufacturer will combine the best of both cards then we will all be happy ....oh yeh ...and price the card at a reasonable level unlike shaft-labs. If we rely on CL all you get is band-aid enhancemenst for 3 times the price instead of real features like the mystique offers.

 

[mouawad]

Ask anyone with a Creative card that doesn't have some anti-CL slant if their Audigy/X-Fi/whatever sounds good in games and they will say "yes." Maybe you have a better ear than 99.9% of the population, and you can detect the minute differences between a Creative DAC vs a Mystique DAC while playing a game. I cannot, and neither can the other 99.9% of the population. However, I can hear the difference between non EAX 3+ games and games with EAX 3+. No denying that EAX 3+ makes games sound much better, proprietary or not.
Therefore, Creative = the best gaming card 99.9% of the time. Now let's stop treadjacking.

i've come from an audigy2 to the mystique .....which i statted earlier so i have some degree of measurement between products. i've also listened to the x-fi ....like i said it doesn't impress me an more than the audigy2 and i;m not the first to say this. i know you want to defend your purchase because you paid alot of money for a soundcard but the fact remains ...there's better alternatives for cheaper.

don't like the truth??? tough ....tell your mommy when she kisses you goodnight

 

[unhappy_mage]

I think you pretty much covered everything and the only thing this is going to do is turn into another Creative Bash fest.

*cough*

 

[jebo_4jc]

i know you want to defend your purchase because you paid alot of money for a soundcard

Where did I say this? I'm using an Audigy 1 that I bought for <$100

don't like the truth??? tough ....tell your mommy when she kisses you goodnight

Nice flame. I'll be feeling the burn from that one for a while. [

 

[Mister X]

*cough*

Are you trying to tell me something?
If you are you are a little late.

I would also suggest that you use the report post button so as not to derail the thread by posting a reply to something that was never even posted in this thread.

 

[jebo_4jc]

*cough*

seconded

 

[unhappy_mage]

Are you trying to tell me something?
If you are you are a little late.

I have a cold. Don't shake hands with me.

 

[Mister X]

I have a cold. Don't shake hands with me.

*Cough* report post *Cough*

That way we don't need to discuss cold remedies.

 

[Xeero]

Jebo be happy with your creative card + EAX ....i'm happy with my mystique that does a MUCH better job at surround than any creative card on the market at half the price of the cheapest x-fi and has 2 digital outputs as standard without a GAY front panel and still sounds better w./out EAX 3+.

Hopefully a manufacturer will combine the best of both cards then we will all be happy ....oh yeh ...and price the card at a reasonable level unlike shaft-labs. If we rely on CL all you get is band-aid enhancemenst for 3 times the price instead of real features like the mystique offers.

rawr another hda-m fanatic. ok we get that you really like your DDL encoding. now DDL works great for you, props to you. some of us don't like DDL, we think its gimmicky just like how some people think the crystalizer is gimmicky. coming from a DDL souncard owner perspective, i feel DDL is more gimmicky than the crsytalizer. however, you don't see me going around bashing on other soundcards. so please no more bashing kthx.

 

[thomase]

Uhmm... not really, as it really depends on the model. The Elite Pro with the CS4398s are excellent for analog runs to a HT rig, and the new +15dB option solves the level output issue with HT amplifiers. In fact, it can be better than your amp's DAC, assuming your manufacturer cheaped out. At worst, it will definately be on par, and more than likely be more detailed.

Yes, it's an expensive card, but if you want the audio quality of your DD Live output AND have the gaming support of the Creative card, it's the way to go.

I also do some recording / analog ripping, so the card for me was a no brainer.

I'm not sure the +15dB REALLY solves the level output issue. A real solution would actually allow the sub output to go 10dB higher than the maximum allowed level on the other outputs. Based on a thread on the Creative forums, it seems that anything above 0dB is still clipped. You need to set the master volume no greater than -10dB in order to avoid clipping on the sub output, so that it can be 10dB higher than all of the other channels. You could do this with the Audigy 2 "manually" by lowering the non-sub channels by 10dB in the THX console.

Here is the thread. The relevant info is near the end.

 

[unhappy_mage]

My solution is headphones. Two channels of personal audio, no distractions noticed with closed phones and no distractions caused. Bit-for-bit copy from cd to flac, then bit-for-bit copy back to offboard DACs to an amplifier to headphones. I swear if I ever get into home theater it'll have 20 pairs of headphones instead of speakers

Meanwhile, back in reality, I'll hold out on 5.1 until there's a consistent standard for sending uncompressed multi-channel audio in a single cable and a digital format. I'm surprised it hasn't emerged yet, but I'm waiting on it. Bandwidth can't be the issue - we're working on 10gbit ethernet, that is by my calculations enough for a heck of a lot of audio channels at 96 kHz/24 bit. It's coming, it's gotta be.

 

[dderidex]

^^^^ you've gone from audiophiles raving about the DAC quality to admitting they;re just decent ......it's amazing how we change out minds when we realise how wrong we are.

You read too much into the word. "Decent", "good", whatever. They are damn near as good as you can get on ANY consumer-level soundcard (and even very close to many professional cards), so if it's not "perfect", is as close as you can get.

how can you be talking about anything BUT digital? bit-perfect through a DAC on a pc sound card through analog .....HAH ROFL......what colour is the sky above you today???

Oh, c'mon, it's a HELL of a lot closer to bit-perfect than what DDL does. Do you even KNOW what Dolby Digital compression *DOES* to a signal?? You are smashing six channels worth of data into a single bitstream at only 640kbps!

Seriously, think about that. Even presuming (for some reason), you sent NO data down the subwoofer channel, that leaves 5 channels getting only 128kbps of data each.

Read that again.

128kbps of data.

Now, unless you think a 128kbps MP3 sounds like god's gift to mankind for quality, you've GOT to realize the severe limitation of DDL content. Playing a DVD disk encoded at 24-bit, 192-khz is going to sound NO BETTER THAN A 128KBPS MP3, because the DDL encoding *can't send more data than that per channel*!

Think about that!

DDL is NOT a feature, it's a way to seriously crapify the audio quality to save some wiring!

^^^ really? again ROFL ...please try harder it's not that difficult really ....in my world differences between front and rear seperation would be classified as surround issues. in your world ???? clearly not. how strange that is

No, actually, that's more of a setup issue. Stereo seperation problems have to do with the soundfield from left and right channels. If you are having seperate problems between the front and rear channels, you've got something messed up in your driver install BIGTIME.

^^^ TRULY CRAP hahahahaha you're such a dumbass that you actually think you can substantiate your claims through copying card specs. have you even listened to both cards??? no you haven't i'm sure......it's like saying a pentium4 is faster than an athlon64 because of the faster clock speed. totally clueless

Oh, c'mon, spec differences THAT large are telling.

*YOU* are basically arguing that since a 2.4ghz Athlon64 is faster than a 2.4ghz Pentium 4, then ghz is totally meaningless and a 1ghz Athlon64 is faster than a 4.0ghz Pentium 4.

That's just not true. Of course numbers don't tell the WHOLE story, but the DAC on that card has 3/4 the dynamic range of the X-Fi chip! You WILL hear that difference!

does the x-fi automatically resample everything to 48khz like every other card in their line-up???

Not if you disable the resampling, no, it doesn't.

and then cover it up with fancy tech babble like 'crystaliser'

Which, again, has nothing to do with this conversation at all. Why do you keep bringing it up? It's not relevant.

i think you're quite the retard ....probably why you paid 2-3 times more than you needed to for an inferior product. but then creative has done this for years and years so they know idiots will buy their products because they always do.

I don't own a Creative card, and I certainly didn't pay "2-3 times more than needed".