HD595 or HD600

D

`danny

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
384
I am going to be returning my HD555s and was wondering what would be better HD595 or HD600. I will not be purchasing an amp immediatley but I will have them plugged into a Onkyo TX-DS595 receiver which is plugged into my computer via SPDIF (fiber out). Will appreciate any feedback!
 
In that case, probably the 595s. Sennheisers more classic phones, of which the 600s are, really like amps. They are quite high impedance (300ohms) and not all that efficient so if you don't have an amp, often you'll find you can't get them all that loud. The 595s aren't the same way, though, and should work much better in an unamped environment. Don't get me wrong, they'd benefit from an amp, but I think overall they'll get you better sound. I've tried 580s and 600s on unamped systems and in all cases they just couldn't reach an acceptable listening level, never mind get truly loud.
 
But he has an amp. The Onkyo receiver headphone output is an amp. Maybe not the best amp for headphones but good enough until he can afford a good headphone amp. I have 595 but if I was buying today I think I would save the extra cash and get 600 or 650 because from what I have read they are in a different class altogether compared to 595. I haven't heard 600 though so can't say for sure but that is the impression I get over at headfi. Most Sennheiser fans that are audiophiles buy 600 or 650. I don't use 595 for games though. They are too heavy and get too warm for really long periods of gaming. For gaming I just use Koss KSC75.
 
The HD600 is worlds apart from the HD595. It is a significantly better headphone, so as long as you have adequate amplification.

The best headphone setup I've ever heard was a balanced HD600 into a RSA B52. Amazing what a $200 headphone can sound like with the right combination of equipment :D
 
I don't think one is "better" than one or the other having owned the 595 and 650s which are pretty similar to the 600s. It depends on your music tastes, the 595s are better rock phones for sure, however I find the 650s excel at any music being played with "real" (unamped) instruments and any kind of music with deep bass. Some people swear by the 595s and have owned the 600/650 some swear by the the opposite. I'd try to audition them if possible, if not try reading some user comments on both. As for using the receiver as an amp I'd recommend against it, it made the 650s sound pretty bad IMHO, your millage may vary
 
Yup. The 595s are fine unamped and the 600 or 650s are not. Not only that, but to get the most out of the 600 series costs at least as much as the headphone. Heck, people have spent thousands to get the 600s right.

Better off with the 595s or A900 unamped or receiver amped which is pretty similiar lol.
 
HD600 over the 595 in my experience. I like the presentation more with the 600 series. The 595 tends to make the vocals more prominent while the 600 series have a more "total package" presentation meaning they were more balanced to my ears.

The 650s that I had were easily powered by even my then Audigy 2zs soundcard and made its home with my Harman Kardon AVR330 receiver's headphone out before I got the Headamp GS1 amp several months later.

The difference in sound between it unamped and amped is NOT huge to the point where you should base your purchase on whether you have the money to amp it asap or not. The amp should not determine the 'phone from my experience.

I would say, get the 600. Get a headphone amp when you can. And enjoy.
 
Pinipig523 said:
The difference in sound between it unamped and amped is NOT huge to the point where you should base your purchase on whether you have the money to amp it asap or not. The amp should not determine the 'phone from my experience.

I would say, get the 600. Get a headphone amp when you can. And enjoy.
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I would personally disagree with that statement. As a previous longtime owner of the HD580 (same drivers and cable as the HD600, just a different casing), unamped or poorly amped they sound muddy, unclear, and not even as good as a pair of $15 Koss KSC-75. When properly amped (even a PIMETA will do; I particularly enjoyed the AD8620/10 Opamp combo) they're excellent phones, but unamped I'm very unsatisfied with them. I haven't directly heard the 595s, but every review I've read would suggest they'd do much better out of a simple amp like a receiver.
 
I guess I will comment on the HD650. I think it benefits from amps, but it doesnt clip or do anything undesirable without one. It is essentially the same phone when plugged into an amp: it doesn't change its basic characteristics. To my ears, adding an amp just makes it more supple and controlled. It sounds like it has a little more gusto or oomph. Alot of folks will tell you that it scales well: better performance with better source and amp. I tend to agree from what I've heard, particularly in the source dept. You just need to remember that many upgrades provide subtle improvements that are essentiall for some, unimportant for others.
Nearly each time I upgraded my rig (exception being my current DAC) I didn't have knee-jerk reactions of audible splendor. It just sounded at least as good as the previous setup. It was only after many hours of listening to the new setup and going back to the old to compare that I noticed a difference. And usually a night and day one at that. I attribute this to training my ears.
My guess is the HD600 would be the same. The B52 amp was built around it, and I think we can all agree that is a damn fine amp.
 
Arainach said:
I would personally disagree with that statement. As a previous longtime owner of the HD580 (same drivers and cable as the HD600, just a different casing), unamped or poorly amped they sound muddy, unclear, and not even as good as a pair of $15 Koss KSC-75. When properly amped (even a PIMETA will do; I particularly enjoyed the AD8620/10 Opamp combo) they're excellent phones, but unamped I'm very unsatisfied with them. I haven't directly heard the 595s, but every review I've read would suggest they'd do much better out of a simple amp like a receiver.
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And yet the OP has a receiver to power them.

Unamped, I feel the headphones sound decent. I really don't get where this whole "it sounds so muddy I can't enjoy them" is coming from because that is not what I hear and what my friends who listen to my system have heard.

The amp makes a difference, but to me it's not as gigantic as people make it out to be. Sure it sounds more cohesive, more dynamic, but the majority of the meat is still there. An amp, to me, makes a 25% difference at the most. If you go tubes, you get a different character - though not necessarily better in all aspects.

To the OP... trust me, an unamped 650/600 will not sound terrible unamped. It will get better with amplification, but I can live with it without amplification if that makes any sense. Try it out. Worst thing you can do is just return it.
 
aardvark sandwich said:
I guess I will comment on the HD650. I think it benefits from amps, but it doesnt clip or do anything undesirable without one. It is essentially the same phone when plugged into an amp: it doesn't change its basic characteristics. To my ears, adding an amp just makes it more supple and controlled. It sounds like it has a little more gusto or oomph.
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Exactly. On the dot.

This is how I feel with regards to the 6x0 series phones by Sennheiser. The basic structure is there regardless of amplification.

It is NOT terrible without an amp. If this was so, then adding an amp to it would produce revelations upon revelations (just by reading what people have been saying on this thread and on many threads here and on headfi) - causing the listener to want to jump on top of the highest hill found in the neighborhood and scream out in ecstasy.

Give me a break. I have NEVER heard an audio component that has done that for me - nor speakers... and definitely not a headphone amp.

If the 6x0 series were really THAT terrible with an amp and it improves tremendously with one... then I assume that these people are telling me that the improvement in sound has to be AT A MINIMUM, a 100% improvement in sound.

OP.... if a headphone is THAT bad without an amp, don't buy it. A headphone amp does not a headphone make. You merely augment the sonic characteristics of the headphone with an amp.

My 2 cents, I could be wrong but that's just me.
 
Just having a receiver doesn't mean he has any sort of headphone amp. Unfortunately, there's no standard for how those jacks are wired. It could be taken off the main amp through resistors. It could be a full separate high quality headphone amp. It could be a garbage $0.10 opamp.

So I don't count on receivers being good headphone amps. If they are, wonderful, and many are, but I'm not going to assume that it is without having a look inside. Because headphones are such a rarely used feature with receivers, many do really cheap out. They just take the output of the DAC and hook it to a very cheap opamp and call that good. It is essentially the same kind of thing you get from a portable and as such not really an "amped" source.
 
Sycraft said:
Just having a receiver doesn't mean he has any sort of headphone amp. Unfortunately, there's no standard for how those jacks are wired. It could be taken off the main amp through resistors. It could be a full separate high quality headphone amp. It could be a garbage $0.10 opamp.

So I don't count on receivers being good headphone amps. If they are, wonderful, and many are, but I'm not going to assume that it is without having a look inside. Because headphones are such a rarely used feature with receivers, many do really cheap out. They just take the output of the DAC and hook it to a very cheap opamp and call that good. It is essentially the same kind of thing you get from a portable and as such not really an "amped" source.
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This is very true. Other than a few top of the line Denon receivers, I have never heard a consumer oriented receiver perform well as a headphone amp. Almost all, like you've said, are run off cheap op-amps and were put there almost as an afterthought. While the Senns do sound decent unamped and much better than your standard run of the mill cans, running them off an actual amp really helps you maximize their potential. Whether or not the difference is worth it, is of course up to each owner however, for me it was a welcome upgrade.

Despite this though, I would still go with the HD600s. They offer a completely different sound compared to the HD595s and even unamped, I prefer them over the HD595s. Going down this path also allows you to start off on a solid platform to build on should you decide to delve deeper into headphone audio. Even though the HD600s are only $160-200 on the used market, don't let that throw you. There are nearly as many people on Head-Fi who are running these cans balanced off of rigs costing $2k+ as there are people who're running them off $200-500 rigs.
 
spaceman said:
Not only that, but to get the most out of the 600 series costs at least as much as the headphone. Heck, people have spent thousands to get the 600s right.
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And some people buy Nordost cables (excuse me - "interconnects") and special power cables. Some people buy tube amps. Some people buy balanced headphones. And some spend thousands on amplification. All are bad ideas for most people, including "audiophiles," and not for reasons of not needing the sound quality increase, because in most cases, when compared to gear costing a few hundred up through maybe a grand or so depending on features, there is none. At all.

Of course, building your own headphone amp would be best if you can. Then you can use quality op amps so you can have the best SNR possible.
 
skyline889 said:
Even though the HD600s are only $160-200 on the used market, don't let that throw you. There are nearly as many people on Head-Fi who are running these cans balanced off of rigs costing $2k+ as there are people who're running them off $200-500 rigs.
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I remember reading from a user named Akwok who had basically owned all the amps worth owning, and all the headphones worth owning, etc. As he transitioned into a "speaker guy" (R.I.P. :p) he simplified his headphone rig to the point of running HD650s straight out of a Lavry DA10 (it has an internal hp amp). I believe he will be using the upcoming Headamp Pico > HD650. Doesn't get much simpler than that. And he has heard the expensive stuff.
 
I've read that Harmon Kardon's newest receivers have really decent headphone amps. One guy at headfi went to so far as to say it was as good as the Heed CanAmp. My AudioLab 8000A integrated amp has a decent headphone amp too. One person at headfi says he thinks the AudioLab 8000A has the best headphone amp over all integrated amps. I've also seen one person post at headfi that said the best combo of HD650 and amp/dac he found was the EMU 0404 USB which is less than $200.00. I don't know about that though because I have EMU 0404 USB and the AudioLab gives deeper bass than the EMU even just using HD595 headphones.But for his ears that is the combo he liked the best. I will say the EMU gives a more neutral and cleaner sound compared to the Audiolab. Audio is very subjective and we all hear differently so what one person likes another may not. Probably best to go audition the equipment rather than take our advice. Problem is that lots of stores don't let you audition headphones anymore due to hygienics.
 
milkweg said:
I have EMU 0404 USB and the AudioLab gives deeper bass than the EMU even just using HD595 headphones.
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What kind of tests have you done to confirm this? How quickly were you able to switch between both sources with the same material?
 
My Pioneer Elite 91 has a very nice headphone out. I previously had a NAD T753 which had a lower SNR and I got a lot of hiss so I didn't like it. They are otherwise the same. But the SNR was a big difference that would make me pick the Pioneer any day.
 
^^ I have an Emu 0404 USB that is no longer in use, but I tried it with my HD650, but ultimately preferred its line out to my SR71. The bass was leaner that way, but it was much tighter, and the high end was much better.
 
milkweg said:
I've read that Harmon Kardon's newest receivers have really decent headphone amps. One guy at headfi went to so far as to say it was as good as the Heed CanAmp. My AudioLab 8000A integrated amp has a decent headphone amp too. One person at headfi says he thinks the AudioLab 8000A has the best headphone amp over all integrated amps. I've also seen one person post at headfi that said the best combo of HD650 and amp/dac he found was the EMU 0404 USB which is less than $200.00. I don't know about that though because I have EMU 0404 USB and the AudioLab gives deeper bass than the EMU even just using HD595 headphones.But for his ears that is the combo he liked the best. I will say the EMU gives a more neutral and cleaner sound compared to the Audiolab. Audio is very subjective and we all hear differently so what one person likes another may not. Probably best to go audition the equipment rather than take our advice. Problem is that lots of stores don't let you audition headphones anymore due to hygienics.
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Bump. I had the Audiolab 8000 as well and it did have a very good headphone amp. The audiolab in general is a highly celebrated piece.
 
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