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Post some real games with comparisons.
I cant play AquaMark or 3dmark....did they get released yet?
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HD5770x2!
- Thread starter SonDa5
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Post some real games with comparisons.
I cant play AquaMark or 3dmark....did they get released yet?
cannondale06
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I am mostly with you except you went of course a bit thats all. I didnt go crazy on you at all and simply pointed out what where mistakes about crossfire, 5770 price and 4770 performance. you can look at the 4770 reviews and see that in the ones where they overclocked it, the 4850 was beaten. you said it would only match the 4850 when overclocked when in fact it does beat it so thats all I was saying about the 4770. its not a really big deal but I thought it needed to be said.
I am sure this thread will be closed tomorrow. I say we get t-shirts made just to remind we were all a part of another epic SonDa5 thread. lol
funkydmunky
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Sorry boss. Back on topic (your links are pointless btw.)
Please un-thread-crap your own thread and answer what I have already posted. You have avoided any logical rebuttal, so nut up dude.
Right so 12 pages of crap and Sonda5 hasn't learned a thing.
Hell you haven't even realized you crap on your own thread more then anyone else with all your "stop thread crapping" and "take this topic to another thread" posts.
About all I got from all this is that at least 2 people here would actually buy a 5770X2 for god knows what reason.
Oh and apparently people do play 3DMark and the X770's kick ass at this game.
Sorry but the 5770 is not the 4770 of the 5k line. It's a castrated 5800 design.
The 5770 will have a nice price point and will be a great value. But nothing will allow it to compete with the 5800 cards like the 4770 did with the 4800 cards.
Right now I am waiting on the 5800 2gig cards and this will be where I put my money even though I expect initial reviews to show no benefit. I expect the 2gig cards to pay off in the long run with multi monitor gaming.
I am sure someone will make a 5770 2gig at some point but I hardly see it being useful on the 5770 with it's castrated mem bus. But then I am also sure I am not the only one who expects the 5770 to be a bit of a flop when it comes to multi monitor gaming.
The 5800 cards has 256bit memory controller for a reason. They wouldn't have gone this route if the 5k line couldn't make use of it since it adds significant production cost to the chip. Now maybe it will only show it self to be useful on the 3d work station variation but I really doubt it.
Sorry Sonda5 but the 5770 really does have a serious weakness compared to it's big brother unlike the 4770. And a 5770x2 would share that weakness. And depending where that weakness comes in to play and X2 card may not even give you the ability to turn up settings over a single 5770.
BTW even though you may be able to reuse your aftermarket heat sinks on your next set of cards. It is my opinion that the money you spent on them eliminated the value in buying a lower end card. Odds are you could have had a pair of 4890's for what you spent on the 2 4770's and the heat sinks. You love to talk about the value of the 770's but when your technique is applied I fail to see any value.
Anyway whats the old saying? Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see what one fills up first? Though in your case you may just get a chance to some day put a 5770x2 in your hand. Still don't mean it will be worth any more then the pile of shit you collected in the other hand in the mean time.
Hell you haven't even realized you crap on your own thread more then anyone else with all your "stop thread crapping" and "take this topic to another thread" posts.
About all I got from all this is that at least 2 people here would actually buy a 5770X2 for god knows what reason.
Oh and apparently people do play 3DMark and the X770's kick ass at this game.
Sorry but the 5770 is not the 4770 of the 5k line. It's a castrated 5800 design.
The 5770 will have a nice price point and will be a great value. But nothing will allow it to compete with the 5800 cards like the 4770 did with the 4800 cards.
Right now I am waiting on the 5800 2gig cards and this will be where I put my money even though I expect initial reviews to show no benefit. I expect the 2gig cards to pay off in the long run with multi monitor gaming.
I am sure someone will make a 5770 2gig at some point but I hardly see it being useful on the 5770 with it's castrated mem bus. But then I am also sure I am not the only one who expects the 5770 to be a bit of a flop when it comes to multi monitor gaming.
The 5800 cards has 256bit memory controller for a reason. They wouldn't have gone this route if the 5k line couldn't make use of it since it adds significant production cost to the chip. Now maybe it will only show it self to be useful on the 3d work station variation but I really doubt it.
Sorry Sonda5 but the 5770 really does have a serious weakness compared to it's big brother unlike the 4770. And a 5770x2 would share that weakness. And depending where that weakness comes in to play and X2 card may not even give you the ability to turn up settings over a single 5770.
BTW even though you may be able to reuse your aftermarket heat sinks on your next set of cards. It is my opinion that the money you spent on them eliminated the value in buying a lower end card. Odds are you could have had a pair of 4890's for what you spent on the 2 4770's and the heat sinks. You love to talk about the value of the 770's but when your technique is applied I fail to see any value.
Anyway whats the old saying? Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see what one fills up first? Though in your case you may just get a chance to some day put a 5770x2 in your hand. Still don't mean it will be worth any more then the pile of shit you collected in the other hand in the mean time.
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Same basic arch means that actually 3dmark comparisons are pretty valid.
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Pretty valid for what?...showing how pretty some program looks on a pc?
Games man, we want real world shit, Not a useless benchmark that I cannot play
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In the long run you are better saving your money for the HD6000 series.
The TR heatsinks are a thing of beauty and they have worked very well for me.
They fit the HD5770 as well. They may even fit the HD5850. I have no regrets buying the TR heat sinks for the HD4770. The reference heat sinks on the HD4770s were lousy in comparison.
funkydmunky
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That's what I'm talking about!
Keep drinking the blue kool aid I sent you.
WTF? Ha ha that is hilarious. You just stepped in that kool-aid reference in the worst possible way. Classic.
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In the long run you are better saving your money for the HD6000 series.
The TR heatsinks are a thing of beauty and they have worked very well for me.
They fit the HD5770 as well. They may even fit the HD5850. I have no regrets buying the TR heat sinks for the HD4770. The reference heat sinks on the HD4770s were lousy in comparison.
Well you might as well wait for the 6770 then bro!
It will have 2gig of castrated memory, and will be able to overclock past the 6850!
Save your money man! your nice 4770 that you say are 5000 series should last ya tell then.
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I didn't I asked for real game benchmarks between the 2 video cards.
Since that is what the last 10 pages has been about. You changed the subject not me
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Meaker you know and I know and a few others know how great the HD4770 is from first hand experience.
We know how well it works for benchmarking and even better for gaming.
There is obviously many who don't like the HD4770 or the HD5770. For unknown reasons the idea of a HD5770x2 bothers them.
Why???? I have no idea.
Thanks for your honest input. 40nm powa 4 life!
We know how well it works for benchmarking and even better for gaming.
There is obviously many who don't like the HD4770 or the HD5770. For unknown reasons the idea of a HD5770x2 bothers them.
Why???? I have no idea.
Thanks for your honest input. 40nm powa 4 life!
It's a useful comparison of comparative performance, ie a graphics score difference of 10% will usually make a 10% difference in games.
TBH though its rather easy to take the base performance of reviews (take your pick) then apply the percentage OC and voila.
As a rule the HD 4770 is usually around 10% slower than a HD 4850 (at worst, sometimes its actually faster due to having the same back end clocked higher), these are games requiring pure shader power since the 4770 has the same back end to the GPU. Lets look a worst case:
HD 4770 = 750/800 -> 960/1075 = 28%/34.3% (normalized to the HD 4850 thats 15%/20% over)
HD 4850 = 15%/20% x 625/993 = 718/1200
As a rough guide of the OC you would need on the 4850 to match the 4770 in the worst cases for the 4770. In the better games for the 4770, the 4850 may as well pack up and go home.
TBH though its rather easy to take the base performance of reviews (take your pick) then apply the percentage OC and voila.
As a rule the HD 4770 is usually around 10% slower than a HD 4850 (at worst, sometimes its actually faster due to having the same back end clocked higher), these are games requiring pure shader power since the 4770 has the same back end to the GPU. Lets look a worst case:
HD 4770 = 750/800 -> 960/1075 = 28%/34.3% (normalized to the HD 4850 thats 15%/20% over)
HD 4850 = 15%/20% x 625/993 = 718/1200
As a rough guide of the OC you would need on the 4850 to match the 4770 in the worst cases for the 4770. In the better games for the 4770, the 4850 may as well pack up and go home.
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Meaker you know and I know and a few others know how great the HD4770 is from first hand experience.
We know how well it works for benchmarking and even better for gaming.
There is obviously many who don't like the HD4770 or the HD5770 and for whatever reasons they may have, the idea of a HD5770x2 bothers them.
Why???? I have no idea.
Thanks for your honest input. 40nm powa 4 life!
Not really
I just recommended a 4770 to a friend. He had an Ancient 8800 GTS 320m. (he did buy the 4770 btw)40nm rocks great technology
Why do you think I bought a 5870. Which btw blows away a 5770 and its a 5000 series and 40nm!!!!In the long run you are better saving your money for the HD6000 series.
The TR heatsinks are a thing of beauty and they have worked very well for me.
They fit the HD5770 as well. They may even fit the HD5850. I have no regrets buying the TR heat sinks for the HD4770. The reference heat sinks on the HD4770s were lousy in comparison.
Yeah well since your crystal ball tells you that your experience with the 4770 and it's oh so bad ass 40nm tech some how relates to the 5770. I will opt to listen to my own crystal ball that says Nvidia is going to stomp ATI come 6k series time. (god it's great to have no brand loyalty)
And yeah I don't doubt they were but since you say you have 2x 150CFM fans in your PC I find it hard to believe it was noise that made them lousy. So I am going to jump out on a limb here and assume they were lousy in comparison since they didn't let you clock your cards as high.
And in that case had you put the money in to 4890's rather then 5770's and heat sinks you wouldn't have needed to overclock at all to get better performance.
And yeah I already commented that you can move the heat sinks to the newer cards. But this will leave your 4770's worth less since I can't see you getting them to work with the stock cooler after epoxying on all those other sinks.
If you had 2 stock 4890's at least they would be worth something used right now.
cannondale06
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everybody has already mentioned why it would be stupid. the price would end up being around the 5850 price. the 5770x2 would still have the same bandwidth as single 5770 so it likely would not even beat the 5850 much less the 5870. in other words at the settings and resolutions that would need 1600sp, you would also need more memory bandwidth. 4770x2 would use about the same amount of power as the 5870 so again whats the point?Meaker you know and I know and a few others know how great the HD4770 is from first hand experience.
We know how well it works for benchmarking and even better for gaming.
There is obviously many who don't like the HD4770 or the HD5770. For unknown reasons the idea of a HD5770x2 bothers them.
Why???? I have no idea.
Thanks for your honest input. 40nm powa 4 life!
Errr while memory CAPACITY does not double in crossfire, memory BANDWIDTH does actually.
funkydmunky
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Meaker you know and I know and a few others know how great the HD4770 is from first hand experience.
We know how well it works for benchmarking and even better for gaming.
There is obviously many who don't like the HD4770 or the HD5770. For unkown reasons the idea of a HD5770x2 bothers them.
Why???? I have no idea.
Really? You have no idea? Please answer my post bellow(third request).
Come on at least try! We have gone 13 pages with you, but now your just copping out. You owe all of us at least some insight into what makes crazy, crazy. And, "no thread crapping" isn't a response. We see through that.
"Okay, now onto your topic. 5770X2. Please name all of the X2 cards released so far in this or last gen. Okay I will help you. 4870X2 and the NV295. Okay we will throw the 4850X2 in there, although it was more of a minimal marketing gimic then anything. All right, now ask your self why each company made these cards? Okay I will help you. Each card was done as an effort to gain the title of TOP ENTHUSIEST card. Each carried a fair premium in price, which was acceptable because it gained the title of TOP ENTHUSIAST card at the time of their release. The 4850X2 was thrown in there because it was still the second fastest card on the market at the time (still sucked because it was only slightly cheaper then the 4870X2 and lack of ATi drivers made it a poor buy). Now any time a company makes an X2 or dual GPU card it will always cost more then a single GPU card of the same abillity. It uses twice the amount of everything.
So here I am going to ask you. What ever would be the logic of any card maker to make an X2 of any crippled low end chip to compete with a single GPU card that they already have on the market? The 5770 is going to hit at about 179-199$(I even think $219). We know Xfire doesn't offer near %100 increase. So whats the logic? Why do you assume ATi is a bunch of dumb-ass fucks who would release an overly expensive part that has worse performance, and more power consumption then a product they already have (5870) ? Why?"
cannondale06
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no it doesnt and thats one of the downsides of crossfire and sli. that was one of the complaints about nvidias top card the gtx295 as its bandwidth was still the same as the gtx260. do you really think that quad sli or quadfire has 4 times the bandwidth of a single gpu? of course it doesnt.
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Ok so maybe I should be a little clearer, write performance stays the same, read doubles.
I have 2 sets of data now, they have to stay the same so if I write something I have to write to both.
However I can read from either of them at any time, so my read performance doubles. Like Raid 1 for hard drives.
As for the 5770 X2, the 5770 is about the same performance as a 4870, so a 5770 = 4870x2, which trades places anywhere from below the 5850 to above the 5870 depending on the game.
I have 2 sets of data now, they have to stay the same so if I write something I have to write to both.
However I can read from either of them at any time, so my read performance doubles. Like Raid 1 for hard drives.
As for the 5770 X2, the 5770 is about the same performance as a 4870, so a 5770 = 4870x2, which trades places anywhere from below the 5850 to above the 5870 depending on the game.
funkydmunky
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Is it possible to TROLL your own thread?
He refuses to answer anything asked. Cry's wolf constantly.
Any chance we can just freeze the thread and submit to Wikipedia as classic self trolling?
I'm flabbergasted at this point.
He refuses to answer anything asked. Cry's wolf constantly.
Any chance we can just freeze the thread and submit to Wikipedia as classic self trolling?
I'm flabbergasted at this point.
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It's ok man, This will be like the 4th Sonda5 thread locked.
Like I said look at my sig from his previous thread that got locked. The man is just 1 misinformed fanboi :/
cannondale06
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but its memory bandwidth would hold it back, again because the memory bandwidth doesnt get doubled in crossfire. the 4870x2 and 5870 would beat a 5770x2 the settings that people would actually want to run those cards at. that was why the 4770 in crossfire didnt always do that great. it didnt have the bandwidth to fully use its 1280 shaders in every case. heck even the 4890 beat it a 4770 crossfire setup in some games.
just wait for 5770 crossfire reviews in less than 24hours and you will see that the 5770 in crossfire will be bandwidth limited compared to a single 5870.
Meaker you know and I know and a few others know how great the HD4770 is from first hand experience.
We know how well it works for benchmarking and even better for gaming.
There is obviously many who don't like the HD4770 or the HD5770. For unknown reasons the idea of a HD5770x2 bothers them.
Why???? I have no idea.
Thanks for your honest input. 40nm powa 4 life!
Because unlike you most of us have been around for more then 2 generations of video cards. Giving us some insight in what to expect as well as many past experiences to help guide us in the right direction.
The 4770 is a nice card but it carried too much of a price premium for it's place in the line up. I know I said it before but I will say it again. The 5770 will not compete against the 5850 like the 4770 was able to with the 4850. Many have pointed out to you the numerous ways that the 5k lineup differs from the 4k lineup.
And to those of you claiming that 3DMark is a valid tool for comparison when testing cards of the same arch I call BS. It does nothing to show what is gained in a game. This is [H] and the video card reviews here go to great lengths to show us exactly want we gain if anything from one configuration to another. And in some cases show us that while one card may get slightly better FPS then another card neither has the extra power to enable anything the other card couldn't do. Showing us that sometimes a card having a little more power doesn't actually mean anything to those of us who play games.
I see no hate for the 4770 or the 5770. I just see a lack of love that I totally understand.
Also I have seen more then one person explain to you exactly why the 5770x2 is a silly idea. Your inability to comprehend these explanations does not turn us in to 770 hatters, thread crappers or any other terms you have decided to label us with.
You have however in my opinion created a whole new type of fanboy with you 770 obsession. You manage to even one up all my friends who at one time were nvidiots believing the FX cards really were better then the 9700. Hell one of them still wont talk to me today because he swears I some how cheated when I showed him my softmoded 9500 pro doubling the performance of his $400 FX card.
Again the 4770 had a few things going for it when it was released late in the 4k life cycle and many do underestimate it. However since it was never really available in mass quantity it really don't matter.
But carrying that love over to the 5770 that has nothing but price going for it is just plain silly as is an 5770x2.The 5770 may provide some nice single monitor gaming but at some point games will start bringing it to it's knees while the 5800's keep on going. And to be honest I would be surprised if Brent doesn't manage to expose it's Achilles heal in the review we should be seeing very soon.
Oh yes really, 100% with out a doubt! OK?
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I can see some games suck in general for gaming on ATi cards due to driver problems or lack of physX. In general though the HD4770 performed very well in multi GPU configurations.
cannondale06
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in general yes but I dont buy 2 cards if its not going to give me 2x the performance. a single fast card makes more sense then to fool with dual gpu issues. even with 160 less sp, a 5850 is going to provide a much more consistent performance while costing less than having a 5750 crossfire setup.
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funkydmunky
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And when we thought we had a winner for thickest plank.
An X2 5770 would not be competing with ATi's end of life 4870X2, but with the 5850 and 5870. The 5770X2 would cost almost 2X as much to make, but you would want it to sell at how much? Only for it to compete with which of its own products?
Dude refuse the kool-aid!
Did it really, where are these benchmarks you speak of?
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-4770-crossfire,2288.html
Lets ignore the fact that two HD 4770s consume less power than a single HD 4890 for a second and that the HD 4770s can overclock more than the 4890 typically.
If you look its the memory amount holding the 4770 in a few cases.
There is one good reason ATI did not release the HD 4770x2 and likely not an HD 5770x2, because they would likely destroy their single card sales.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-4770-crossfire,2288.html
Lets ignore the fact that two HD 4770s consume less power than a single HD 4890 for a second and that the HD 4770s can overclock more than the 4890 typically.
If you look its the memory amount holding the 4770 in a few cases.
There is one good reason ATI did not release the HD 4770x2 and likely not an HD 5770x2, because they would likely destroy their single card sales.
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Considering you linked one of the worst hardware websites on the web. Don't think people tell take those benches seriously.
Try this website, its a real hardware website.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/08/18/amd_radeon_hd_4770_crossfire_evaluation/1
4770 in Xfire gets beat by a 4890 in Crysis Warhead, Arma II, and Fallout 3.
And is about the same Power in idle and load as a 4890.
Stick with real websites.
Cost almost two times to make? Each core only has a 128bit mem bus.
The HD 5850 cut out 2 SPs and a few Mhz and its power consumption dropped 85W compared to the 5870! That means that two HD 5770 cores would need the same power circuitry as a single 5870.
I don't think ATI will release it, but I don't think its because it would be a lemon, I think it would be too good, and the margins would be slimmer, but I don't care about ATIs margins I care about performance so I wish it would be.
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It will take some time for that "eye inffinit" multi display to catch on IMO. Especially with the way the economy is. I look forward to Brent's HD5770 review.
I don't consider myself a fanboi. I'm just having fun with my toys and enthusiastic about the knowledge that I have.
Still looks to me that the amount of memory (512mb) is holding it back, an X2 card would need to have 2GB (1 per card) and it would help a lot. Even in that review the 4770 is beating it by a fair margin in MOST of the games.
funkydmunky
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Uh, duh.
I think that is what we all have been telling you for 14 pages.
Thank you for finally seeing the light. Can you tell your buddy that please.
We won, we won. The war is over, hip hip hooray!
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Explain to me how 3 out of 6 games is most games?......
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