Harley Davidson Reveals the Pricing and Specs of Its "Livewire" Electric Motorcycles

EchoWars

Limp Gawd
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Jan 7, 2010
Messages
497
Loud pipes have saved my ass at least twice from idiot four wheelers that don't pay the fuck attention to the road.
I consider this bike a death trap. A noiseless motorcycle on todays texting everywhere on phones while changing lanes roads. This is not going to end well.
Horseshit.

My Honda CBR600 has loud pipes, but I wish it didn't. Few choices after a traffic accident some years ago, so I bought aftermatket pipes that several magazine reviews said were 'not at all loud'. BS. They were some of the loudest pipes made for the bike. And while I'd not deny that they have probably gotten the attention of some sleepy cager from time to time, what saves a biker's ass 99 times out of 100 is sensible riding and situational awareness.

Here's a column by Sean MacDonald over at Revzilla from a few years ago, saying it better than I possibly could:

"Loud pipes save lives."

"Gotta make sure they hear you coming!"

"I can't tell you how many times a driver has noticed me because of my loud exhaust."

"They aren't just cool. It tells people you're there."

The "loud pipes save lives" argument is one I see or hear on almost a weekly basis. It's usually coming from some guy on a Harley or retro Triumph, though the sportbike guys are jumping on as of late. I honestly can’t tell if people really believe it, or it's just a nice justification when someone says their bike is too loud, but I think it's the second dumbest thing commonly heard from riders. (If you're wondering, the first is that 600cc supersports are beginner bikes.)

Let's start with some basic physics and a little rationality. Your exhaust is pointed backwards and by the nature of you traveling forward, you're actually leaving the sound behind you as you move forward. If that concept is confusing, think of the sound of a fire truck passing you with its siren blaring. The siren is pointed forward because the purpose is to warn driver’s the truck is approaching from behind. The next time you hear one coming, notice that it’s louder when it’s coming toward you than when it’s going away.

Now apply that to motorcycle crashes. The one comprehensive, reliable study of motorcycle crashes in this country is the well known "Hurt Report," which is now nearly 40 years old. Harry Hurt and his team found that 64.9 percent of multiple-vehicle motorcycle crashes were the fault of the car driver and “the typical accident in this category is portrayed by the automobile in traffic turning left into the path of the oncoming motorcycle.” A lot has changed in 40 years, but one thing that I think we can all agree hasn’t changed is that the car drivers are still pulling out in front of us. That means the bigger danger is still ahead, not behind, but most of the racket from loud pipes is just pissing off the people behind you, while doing very little to warn those in front of you.

Your headlights and horn, however, are pointed ahead. If you really were so concerned with an upgrade that could save your life, you’d add aftermarket auxiliary lights and upgrade your horn. But then you’d run the risk of looking like a dork instead of sounding like a badass.

Secondly, look at the cars around you. If loud pipes ever helped make you safer, that's less true today. My first car was a 1986 Volkswagen Fox. Basically, a go-cart with doors and a roof. Every scrap of road noise bled into the cabin. Today, even my semi-budget Mazda 3 manages to make road noise basically non-existent and it also comes with eight speakers, a six-CD changer, and an auxiliary port for my iPhone, so all I'm likely to hear is my music. In a current luxury car, you'll hear far less, and in the future, maybe nothing at all.

Now, I'm not saying a loud motorcycle has never alerted anyone to your presence. We've all had an experience where a driver has noticed us because of the sound of the bike. Obviously, anything that calls attention to your motorcycle helps today’s distracted drivers notice you’re there between their kids’ screams and bites from their burritos. However, claiming that “loud pipes save lives” while riding around on your brakeless bobber in your T-shirt and novelty helmet just makes you, me, and the rest of the motorcycle community look like morons.

You know what does help people notice you? Wearing hi-viz gear, adding auxiliary lighting to your bike, and upgrading your horn are all great ways to make your presence known. Not only do they do a better job than an aftermarket exhaust, but they also cost a lot less. I should say that if by some chance you are wearing hi-viz gear, riding with auxiliary lights, using an upgraded horn, andhave a loud exhaust, I’m willing to give you a pass. You’re both allowed to say “loud pipes save lives,” and disregard everything you just read. You're the unicorn of ATGATT.

I like the sound of a nice set of aftermarket pipes as much as the next guy. So go ahead and buy your loud pipes. Just acknowledge it's for your own enjoyment, and not for some huge concern for safety.
All that said, I think the future of electric bikes is exciting. The first trailbreakers will always be expensive, but these things slowly trickle down to be considerably more affordable if the demand is there. I think everything about the Harley is awesome....except the price.
 

Ranulfo

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,826
Harley is a case study in brand loyalty. I am not a Harley guy. I prefer my bikes to start/stop/retain oil. There is a market for the right guys that want that experience. However, pretty much all of the Harley market is aging out. It'll be gone within my generation. Young people don't crave the same kind of freedom. Their adventures are different.
Nah, its not freedom, besides which freedom has a cost. Its mostly been cost of the bikes. They've priced themselves out of the youth market for 20 odd years as boomers wanted to relive or live like the bikers of the 50s-70s. Add in the old fogey stigma for anyone gen-x and younger (I saw the weekend warrior mid life crisis types as a teen in the mid 90s), quality issues and now that they're not even made in America, forget it. They've obsoleted their brand due to incompetence.
 

alxlwson

You Know Where I Live
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Messages
6,905
Horseshit.

My Honda CBR600 has loud pipes, but I wish it didn't. Few choices after a traffic accident some years ago, so I bought aftermatket pipes that several magazine reviews said were 'not at all loud'. BS. They were some of the loudest pipes made for the bike. And while I'd not deny that they have probably gotten the attention of some sleepy cager from time to time, what saves a biker's ass 99 times out of 100 is sensible riding and situational awareness.

Here's a column by Sean MacDonald over at Revzilla from a few years ago, saying it better than I possibly could:



All that said, I think the future of electric bikes is exciting. The first trailbreakers will always be expensive, but these things slowly trickle down to be considerably more affordable if the demand is there. I think everything about the Harley is awesome....except the price.

You have your opinion, and I have my facts.
 

Vader1975

Gawd
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
820
Horseshit.

My Honda CBR600 has loud pipes, but I wish it didn't. Few choices after a traffic accident some years ago, so I bought aftermatket pipes that several magazine reviews said were 'not at all loud'. BS. They were some of the loudest pipes made for the bike. And while I'd not deny that they have probably gotten the attention of some sleepy cager from time to time, what saves a biker's ass 99 times out of 100 is sensible riding and situational awareness.

Here's a column by Sean MacDonald over at Revzilla from a few years ago, saying it better than I possibly could:



All that said, I think the future of electric bikes is exciting. The first trailbreakers will always be expensive, but these things slowly trickle down to be considerably more affordable if the demand is there. I think everything about the Harley is awesome....except the price.
So people hearing you and not killing you on a bike is "horseshit" ok enjoy your "horseshit while being a bloodstain"
 

Jim Kim

2[H]4U
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
3,700
Horseshit.

My Honda CBR600 has loud pipes, but I wish it didn't. Few choices after a traffic accident some years ago, so I bought aftermatket pipes that several magazine reviews said were 'not at all loud'. BS. They were some of the loudest pipes made for the bike. And while I'd not deny that they have probably gotten the attention of some sleepy cager from time to time, what saves a biker's ass 99 times out of 100 is sensible riding and situational awareness.

Here's a column by Sean MacDonald over at Revzilla from a few years ago, saying it better than I possibly could:



All that said, I think the future of electric bikes is exciting. The first trailbreakers will always be expensive, but these things slowly trickle down to be considerably more affordable if the demand is there. I think everything about the Harley is awesome....except the price.
Bro, you're messing w/peeps mythology. Expect a backlash when you provide facts and statistical proof, it's the state of the world we live in today.
 

EchoWars

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
497
So people hearing you and not killing you on a bike is "horseshit" ok enjoy your "horseshit while being a bloodstain"
Been riding for 50+ years, so I doubt the 'bloodstain' is a likely outcome any time soon.
You have your opinion, and I have my facts.
Please cite them. Oh, you mean your opinions? Sure, you're entitled to those, but facts? They don't exist.

Quiet is good. Repacked the can on the 600 years ago...it's a lot quieter now, thank God.
Bro, you're messing w/peeps mythology. Expect a backlash when you provide facts and statistical proof, it's the state of the world we live in today.
Apparently. We old farts call 'em 'squids'.

Drifting OT gentlemen. How about we discuss the Harley, or electric bikes in general?
 
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nutzo

Supreme [H]ardness
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Feb 15, 2004
Messages
7,380
I consider this bike a death trap. A noiseless motorcycle on todays texting everywhere on phones while changing lanes roads. This is not going to end well.
I had a bike many years ago when I was in college and first started working.
Nothing big, just a basic Japanese commuter type bike. Still it was fast enough to blow away those 5L mustangs in the early 80's :D
Even took it on a trip up to Yosemite one summer.

However, I had too many close calls (This was before cell phones and texting), with people changing into my lane or turning in front of me.
Knew several people who got in serious accidents on their motorcycles (luckily no one died)

Also decided I wanted more comfort for road trips. 2 people in a car used less gas than 2 motorcycles, and 3-4 people makes for a much cheaper trip.

I finally decided it wasn't worth risking my life on the street and got rid of it.
 

EchoWars

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
497
110 mile range and charges overnight? Doesn't seem very fun to me. I'll wait a bit longer for better range and charging methods before considering an electric bike, unless someone throws out one modeled after Kaneda's bike from Akira.
Agree. Need a fast charging method. An hour or two.

Anyone else think the Japanese could show Harley how it's done properly?
 

lostin3d

[H]ard|Gawd
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2,043
I don't know why but I want this. Never gonna happen, but I still want it.
 

Skull_Angel

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Agree. Need a fast charging method. An hour or two.

Anyone else think the Japanese could show Harley how it's done properly?
I think there's too many problems surrounding current battery cell technology for it to really replace petrol. It would be far more preferential to develop a technology that used and consumed renewables rather than rely on rarer elements that degrade with use; possibly cells that relied on replacing the medium to create charge and develop a safe transfer method.
 

EchoWars

Limp Gawd
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Messages
497
I think there's too many problems surrounding current battery cell technology for it to really replace petrol.
I don't think these bikes are meant to replace petrol machines. If I had one with a 120 mile range, that would cover about 98% of my riding. I suspect that percentage may be reasonably common among many riders.
How the hell is a rider supposed to use the touchscreen while wearing motorcycle gloves?
Many (most?) biker gloves today are designed to be touch-screen friendly (with varying degrees of success...mine work nearly as well as my finger..might have to poke a selection twice now and then).
 

sadsteve

Gawd
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Oct 1, 2010
Messages
565
Not really too out of line for a new Harley. It's very easy to spend over 20k on one. That's one of the reasons that they have trouble attracting younger riders.
Heh, I'm an old rider (66) and I'm not attracted. I ride a 2013 Triumph Bonneville (~32K miles so far) and it only cost me $8600 out the door. I'm really liking this bike and now that I'm retired (woho!!) I'm planing a number of long trips.

I asked the motorcycle cops I know "Why don't you guys ride Harley's any more?". The answer was that the Harley's require twice the maintenance of the Japanese bikes they ride.
 

motomonkey

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jan 17, 2009
Messages
1,460
Agree. Need a fast charging method. An hour or two.

Anyone else think the Japanese could show Harley how it's done properly?
The only charging method fast enough to not ruin a weekend of riding is a battery pack swap, and that's not a realistic solution. I suppose HD could have swap stations at every dealership, but there are a lot of places where dealerships are more than 100 miles apart. Touring riders will basically never have a real electric platform unless something drastic happens.
 

Gideon

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Instant torque is nice, however 30k for a Motorcycle is not. The components just dont cost that much to justify that price.
 

Lakados

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Sounds like a colossal douchebag, probably the type of dumbass that has "had to lay it down" at least once. Been riding for the better part of 3 decades and more miles than I can count, from major metro areas to the backwoods to the race track. If you can't trivially handle yourself around cars without feeling like you need weapons and what amounts to a siren, you either need to learn how to ride or get off the bike. Yes, cars will sometimes merge into your lane, or tailgate, or do other stupid shit. BFD. You've got a throttle and brakes that will dust 90%+ of cars on the road, easy 360 vision, and need 1/10th the pavement space that a car needs. Pay even a little bit of attention, don't act like a moron, and you're good - if you actually know how to ride, anyway.
He really was, but he was an old biker from the 60 who survived Vietnam from start to finish. He had a few anger issues.... but he knew his way around a phone system like nobody I’ve met before.
 

Dudhunter

n00b
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Oct 10, 2017
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110 mile range and charges overnight? Doesn't seem very fun to me. I'll wait a bit longer for better range and charging methods before considering an electric bike, unless someone throws out one modeled after Kaneda's bike from Akira.
B689B722-3E74-40F8-8633-DBCE45A64EDA.gif


My body is ready.
 

Vader1975

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Been riding for 50+ years, so I doubt the 'bloodstain' is a likely outcome any time soon.
Please cite them. Oh, you mean your opinions? Sure, you're entitled to those, but facts? They don't exist.

Quiet is good. Repacked the can on the 600 years ago...it's a lot quieter now, thank God.
Apparently. We old farts call 'em 'squids'.

Drifting OT gentlemen. How about we discuss the Harley, or electric bikes in general?
50+ years on a Motorized Bike making lots of noise = ZERO experience riding a whisper quiet electrical bike. Our roads are becoming more and more dangerous every year with these teens texting and and even surfing and chatting and picture taking while "DRIVING" and with you making no noise.... the chances that your 50+ yrs of experience saves you goes down from where it is today. Even a crotch rocket makes enough noise to hear near you. This is dangerous. No I've done X, X amount of time will change that.
 
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Oldmodder

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So aside for car - truck - bus - cyclists - pedestrians, now we are also going to get motorcyclists driving around liking and commenting on pictures of cupcakes,,,,,,,, what a world. :rolleyes:
Already now i laugh my ass of at motorcyclists with a phone docked on their handlebar.

BEtc2fbCMAI22za.jpg
 

Nanogrip

Limp Gawd
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443
They should add retractable pedals so when you run out of juice, just pedal power it to charge, and ride it like a heavy bicycle :LOL:
 

Oldmodder

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706
Yes and if that's what they use their phones, then i am all thumbs up, but if motorcyclists are anything like many car drivers, then i get a little nervous.
Myself i use my 7" tablet for navigation in my car on rare occasions, and have my phone docked off the driver side door fixed glass, i don't have any form of BT support in the car so when i am unlucky and get a call while driving ( happen 1 - 2 times a year ) then i have to call back when i have found a sensible place to stop and do that.

I have nothing against decent motorcyclists, but i do call them all daredevils, but that's based off the idiot car drivers which i would not like drive among with nothing but a little fiber glass / carbon fiber and what ever clothing to protect me.
Hell i would be apprehensive about walking on public streets or riding a bicycle though we Danes most often have their places elevated off the side of the road.

PS. when i do navigate in my car it are most often just the last mile or so i actually use it, cuz i can get to pretty much any town in little old Denmark just fine, its only the street that might be a problem.
 

KD5ZXG

Limp Gawd
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Mar 24, 2017
Messages
504
So you say my 36V Eurotrash lowridin ratrod terror now needs stereo too?
Loud enough to give sidewalk shamblers fair warning to dive for the street?
Sure, why not. Got enough well used dumpster-lith to fill two ammo cans.
Should be a way to wire that for audible, without losing too much range.

OR just put a card in the spokes. Like I got 30 grand for anything better...
 
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Nobu

2[H]4U
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Jun 7, 2007
Messages
3,840
I know about <--> that much about motorcycles... How much does this weigh compared to a typical motorcycle?
They don't specify the weight, afaics. My 2012 nc700x is a bit over 400lbs (which is about right for it's class, though there are much lighter 700cc bikes), this thing looks smaller and has a lighter (aluminum) frame, but it has heavy batteries and electric motor. I'd guess it'll be a little lighter at around 300-350lbs if not about the same weight.
 
Joined
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Messages
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So aside for car - truck - bus - cyclists - pedestrians, now we are also going to get motorcyclists driving around liking and commenting on pictures of cupcakes,,,,,,,, what a world. :rolleyes:
Already now i laugh my ass of at motorcyclists with a phone docked on their handlebar.

View attachment 133561
Ignorance isn't so bad unless you have a chip on your shoulder. I have a docking station on my bars and it beats the hell out of stopping every fifty miles to dig out a map. Then there's Bluetooth voice between my riding partner and I.

Please don't criticise things you don't understand.
 

Armenius

Fully [H]
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Jan 28, 2014
Messages
21,369
$30K is the starting price. I own a Harley and can tell you that $30K won't get you much. $30k will be the bottom of the line bike and won't go 100 miles on a charge. The fully loaded Live wire will be closer to $40k.

I have a 2013 VRod and just to get it out the door was over $25K and that is with no features (no alarm) nothing. I decided to buy a used one and save $10k
For $40k you can step into an electric superbike that the manufacturer claims is the fastest motorcycle in the world.

http://lightningmotorcycle.com/product/specifications/
 

robjordan406

Limp Gawd
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Oct 22, 2018
Messages
158
Its going to be hard to look cool wearing leather chaps and leather jackets with logo on back riding an E Bike....
Maybe when a real motorcycle passes an Ebike rider, it will not be an downward pointed index finger that that flash him....
Just saying...
 

Jim Kim

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Instant torque is nice, however 30k for a Motorcycle is not. The components just dont cost that much to justify that price.
The most expensive part is the $14,599 HD emblem and it always has been.

My favorite t-shirt has two statements:

• This is your brain. (A BMW emblem is depicted.)

• This is your brain on drugs. (A Harley Davidson emblem is depicted.)

priceless
 

fallguy

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I am interested, but 30k is a lot. I will probably have an electric bike before a car. I only ride my bike to work and back, wife never gets on it anymore. I am just 12 miles from work, and could easily go back and forth a few times.

Having to put up my bike for winter is a pain. Gas treatments, oil changes, other stuff that a gas motor needs. The simplicity of an electric would be nice. I dont care about the name brand, so will probably look elsewhere. Unless there is a huge tax credit.
 

IcePickFreak

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Messages
1,274
Yeah that's quite a steep price tag, and it's far from the most expensive Harley. I'd bet money if Elon released this at the same price a lot more people would be clamoring for it though. ;)
 

Kardonxt

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Its going to be hard to look cool wearing leather chaps and leather jackets with logo on back riding an E Bike....
Maybe when a real motorcycle passes an Ebike rider, it will not be an downward pointed index finger that that flash him....
Just saying...
One could argue it's already hard to look cool wearing leather chaps lol. Unless you're into that whole YMCA look.
 

Uvaman2

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Mandatory: if the range is not 600miles and doesn't charge in 15 seconds= hard pass/s
That 30k is absurd though.. no ' / s'
 
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Darunion

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Mandatory: if the range is not 600miles and doesn't charge in 15 seconds= hard pass/s
That 30k is absurd.
You know the technology is not even remotely close to your expectations right?

7kwr battery charged in 15 seconds is not something that is easy for households to do. I suppose you want it to have solar paint to charge it while riding?
 

Nobu

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You know the technology is not even remotely close to your expectations right?

7kwr battery charged in 15 seconds is not something that is easy for households to do. I suppose you want it to have solar paint to charge it while riding?
////////s
Woosh
 

Darunion

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ah didnt see the /s. Sorry so many people on that bandwagon it is hard to see which ones are joking.
 
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