Hardcore gaming on Win 8

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MrAgmoore

[H]ard|Gawd
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MrAgmoore said:
http://www.hardcore-games.tk/wp/win/8.php
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Lost all credibility here... let me quote...

CPU OVERCLOCKING
Windows 8 has a new task manager and many other changes that make it much more sensitive to CPU overclocking compared to previous versions of Windows. For this reason its best to use the default CPU speed for Windows 8.

Windows 8 introduces a new metric that includes cumulative CPU time. This is a long term metric that can help better assess the power consumption of a processor towards greener computing.

If CPU performance is deficient an upgrade might be needed. We use AMD which offer easy incremental upgrades a very reasonable price. Intel by comparison has so many sockets that its almost impossible to find a better CPU that is compatible forcing the purchase of a new motherboard to match the CPU.


Let's summarize...

Ok so... don't overclock your CPU Win8 hates overclocked CPUs apparently.. without having an overclocked CPU this may make your CPU too slow for Windows 8 and you will want to upgrade and since Intel is "impossible" to upgrade due to multiple sockets... you should run AMD CPUs..

Holy fuck - Worst.Advice.Ever. :rolleyes: After that paragraph everything else in the article was moot.
 
what the heck..... my cpu is oced and using w8... no problem.....
any game in steam works.... so bf bc2 works....
all nexon games don t work cause client won t install but thats fine by me...
only problem i ve had with older games is the auto-install on cd woulnd't start cause of 32bit exe and had to go launch the setup manualy. Too much FUD bout w8.
 
yea, it's a really bad article. I ran Win8 with my CPU overclocked and didn't have any issues being overclocked. Seems like some sites try to push their agendas still... my guess is that like most AMD users they can't afford Intel hardware, they know Intel faster, it overclocks better... so lets stick some intel fud into a Win8 article. I know a few guys that are just cheapskates and will try to convince people AMD is better than intel with garbage like this.

Bad source imo.
 
God, that site's design is atrocious. Better to have glass shards in the eyes than to look at that mess.
 
Completely terrible advice.

and if you really want to believe that Intel has no upgrades, check the difference between a G440 and 3770k which are both LGA1155 and have a ton of processors in between.
 
The Win8 doesn't OC well was in relation to some FUD article on an anti-MS site that referenced a MS paper which showed corelation between overclocking and system crashes dated well before any sort of windows 8 availability.
 
-Dragon- said:
The Win8 doesn't OC well was in relation to some FUD article on an anti-MS site that referenced a MS paper which showed corelation between overclocking and system crashes dated well before any sort of windows 8 availability.
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Yeah, it was Charlie D. from SemiAccurate , about the most anti-Microsoft guy on the planet and the paper had NOTHING to do with Windows 8 specifically because Windows 8 didn't over exist when the research in the paper was being conducted as the paper came out in April 2011.
 
dnottis said:
yea, it's a really bad article. I ran Win8 with my CPU overclocked and didn't have any issues being overclocked.
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Now let's hold on just a second here. I could have sworn that earlier you were complaining about how "buggy" Windows 8 was. Let's look at some of your earlier posts:

From October 17 in this thread http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1721959 :

PGHammer had said one of the reasons to upgrade to Windows 8 was "fewer crashes." You responded: "Historically yes. This time around. Fuck no. Win8 is buggy and crashes more than Win7, if you are upgrading for less crashes you are sorely uninformed."

heatlesssun then speculated that perhaps you had a hardware issue and you replied: "Not on 3 different machines all with different hardware...."

heatlesssun then mentioned that he is running Windows 8 on six different machines with no stability issues to which you replied: "dont matter now, they've all been upgraded back to Windows 7. I lost my "tablet capabilities".. but who fucking cares with a mouse and keyboard lmao."

And yet here you are now saying you had no issues with running Windows 8 on an overclocked rig.

This does not make sense. How can you on the one hand assert that Windows 8 is buggy while on the other hand claim you had no issues even running it while overclocked? Are you telling the board that Windows 8 runs better when it's overclocked? Could you explain how Windows 8 could be "buggy" when you "didn't have any issues...?"
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
Now let's hold on just a second here. I could have sworn that earlier you were complaining about how "buggy" Windows 8 was. Let's look at some of your earlier posts:

From October 17 in this thread http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1721959 :

PGHammer had said one of the reasons to upgrade to Windows 8 was "fewer crashes." You responded: "Historically yes. This time around. Fuck no. Win8 is buggy and crashes more than Win7, if you are upgrading for less crashes you are sorely uninformed."

heatlesssun then speculated that perhaps you had a hardware issue and you replied: "Not on 3 different machines all with different hardware...."

heatlesssun then mentioned that he is running Windows 8 on six different machines with no stability issues to which you replied: "dont matter now, they've all been upgraded back to Windows 7. I lost my "tablet capabilities".. but who fucking cares with a mouse and keyboard lmao."

And yet here you are now saying you had no issues with running Windows 8 on an overclocked rig.

This does not make sense. How can you on the one hand assert that Windows 8 is buggy while on the other hand claim you had no issues even running it while overclocked? Are you telling the board that Windows 8 runs better when it's overclocked? Could you explain how Windows 8 could be "buggy" when you "didn't have any issues...?"
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2 of the 3 machines aren't overclocked, one is a laptop.

The bugs were Windows Search causing file transfers to hang, a known bug. I had a problem where Win8 would crash on startup then get in a loop, another common issue I've seen on the internet.

None of the crashes were related to my overclock and in fact I've been using the same overclock with Windows 7 since I've had this setup, and when running Win8 I had Win7 on another partition.

Windows 8 already has like 400 known issues MS is patching come the 26th. Its no secret Windows 8 has issues that need to be fixed and crash causing bugs. Win7 SP1 addressed like 680 bugs since RTM. Win8 isn't even technically in the wild and we are talking about 400 bugs already....

Even Intel is telling their employees Windows 8 "is filled with glitches and is being released before it is fully finished." (http://investorplace.com/2012/09/intel-doesnt-really-deny-calling-windows-8-buggy/)
 
dnottis said:
Windows 8 already has like 400 known issues MS is patching come the 26th. Its no secret Windows 8 has issues that need to be fixed and crash causing bugs. Win7 SP1 addressed like 680 bugs since RTM. Win8 isn't even technically in the wild and we are talking about 400 bugs already....
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I don't really know what the point is here. Windows 7 probably has thousands of bugs in it, so does Windows 8. Windows 8 also supports a whole new UI and hardware like GPS, compass, NFC sensors. In the 11 months I ran a beta version of Windows 8 it was as more stable and had better support for existing hardware and software than even Windows 7 in my experience. I'd say the technical quality of Windows 8 easily matches Windows 7, it certainly is no Vista in quality department.
 
If that is really the list of games that do not currently work on win8 then that is pretty impressive. Most of those games are fairly old, and the newer ones will probably be patched or have a patch available to play on win8.
 
heatlesssun said:
I don't really know what the point is here. Windows 7 probably has thousands of bugs in it, so does Windows 8. Windows 8 also supports a whole new UI and hardware like GPS, compass, NFC sensors. In the 11 months I ran a beta version of Windows 8 it was as more stable and had better support for existing hardware and software than even Windows 7 in my experience. I'd say the technical quality of Windows 8 easily matches Windows 7, it certainly is no Vista in quality department.
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I ran into issues with file transfers just stopping or nonstop calculating, its the old Vista RTM bug rediscovered. I never had that issue with Windows 7 so at some point Vista code made it's way back into Windows 8.
 
bAMtan2 said:
I'm skeptical those games are really incompatible.
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One of the very first things I did after installing the Win 8 preview was, well the very first thing I did after deciding I hated the Metro GUI was, test a bunch of my games. Bioshock 2 was one of them and it worked fine. A bit hitchy, but it was just a preview on preview drivers. So I know that at least one item on that list is wrong.
 
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dnottis said:
I ran into issues with file transfers just stopping or nonstop calculating, its the old Vista RTM bug rediscovered. I never had that issue with Windows 7 so at some point Vista code made it's way back into Windows 8.
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Did you encounter that in the RTM? It wasn't Vista code, but possibly caused by the same underlying issue (recalculation timer for time remaining/bandwidth to use didn't have an appropriate upper bound and on a large transfer with many small files the time estimate could spiral to be so long that it appeared to be non-progressive). I reported the issue and it was fixed pre-beta, so I'd be shocked if you encountered it.
 
Tawnos said:
Did you encounter that in the RTM? It wasn't Vista code, but possibly caused by the same underlying issue (recalculation timer for time remaining/bandwidth to use didn't have an appropriate upper bound and on a large transfer with many small files the time estimate could spiral to be so long that it appeared to be non-progressive). I reported the issue and it was fixed pre-beta, so I'd be shocked if you encountered it.
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I've been doing multi-gigabyte file transfers different kinds for 13 months now and haven't seen this issue. Heck, I've have a tablet run out of battery power and was able to pick back up exactly where the copy dropped off, pretty slick. I wouldn't really waste time trying to help him diagnose Windows 8 issues, he says he's "upgraded" back to Windows 7 and isn't even running Windows 8 anymore anyway.
 
I copied my server (2012) data back after setting up the server from two full 500gb hard drives I put in my win8 machine.

I had 7 different copy streams running from both the drives to several different drives in the server over the network.

No issues encountered, and between the server upgrade to 2012, the workstation upgrade to win 8, and the installation of a new Asus router, I was tickled pink over the speed and reliability of that copy session.

I have plenty to bitch about in win8, but network copies ain't one of them.
 
dnottis said:
2 of the 3 machines aren't overclocked, one is a laptop.

The bugs were Windows Search causing file transfers to hang, a known bug. I had a problem where Win8 would crash on startup then get in a loop, another common issue I've seen on the internet.
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I guess my google-fu isn't what it should be as I can't find any meaningful search results for these issues. Got some links for these "known bugs" that you could share with the board?

dnottis said:
None of the crashes were related to my overclock and in fact I've been using the same overclock with Windows 7 since I've had this setup, and when running Win8 I had Win7 on another partition.
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Without actually dialing back the overclock you don't know this for certain. Windows 8 is a different OS than Windows 7. As I pointed out in a different reply to a post of yours in another thread Windows 8 can react very differently than Windows 7 to the same hardware.

dnottis said:
Windows 8 already has like 400 known issues MS is patching come the 26th.
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Again, you got a link for that? (Philosophical question for bonus points: is it really an issue if it is patched by the time General Availability rolls around?)

dnottis said:
Its no secret Windows 8 has issues that need to be fixed and crash causing bugs.
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No crashes on mine though, nor have I seen any rash of reports of other people complaining about crashes.

dnottis said:
Win7 SP1 addressed like 680 bugs since RTM. Win8 isn't even technically in the wild and we are talking about 400 bugs already....
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No, WE are not. YOU are making up figures out of thin air but no one else is talking about them.

dnottis said:
Even Intel is telling their employees Windows 8 "is filled with glitches and is being released before it is fully finished." (http://investorplace.com/2012/09/intel-doesnt-really-deny-calling-windows-8-buggy/)
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The article you linked to actually refers to a different article, which itself refers to a different article which itself refers to a hearsay report from an anonymous source. Do you see how there is the chance for information to get garbled along the way? I assure you that Intel has made no official declaration that Windows 8 is buggy. Now I'll concede that Windows 8 could certainly be improved upon. Of course. What can't? In fact, I'll be so bold as to say that it will be improved upon in future releases. But in no way is it at present a buggy mess that should be avoided, however incapable you are of resolving your issues.
 
Windows 7 is polished Vista. Of course there are going to be significantly less bugs.

Windows 8 is Windows 7 with a brand new UI. Of course there are going to be bugs found in the UI, since it is completely new.
 
The issue is the Metro Marketplace. Microsoft wants to CHARGE the game developers to have access to the marketplace. This is the issue.

Monopolistic? Yes. Limiting gamers' choice? Yes. Increased cost to gamers? Yes.

And it smacks of the possibility of Microsoft limiting games / programs / apps to only those which are purchased in the marketplace. Did not buy it there? Oops. Sorry, does not work on your computer... unless you "break" the OS. This is the possibility which scares me.
 
HvyMtl said:
The issue is the Metro Marketplace. Microsoft wants to CHARGE the game developers to have access to the marketplace. This is the issue.

Monopolistic? Yes. Limiting gamers' choice? Yes. Increased cost to gamers? Yes.

And it smacks of the possibility of Microsoft limiting games / programs / apps to only those which are purchased in the marketplace. Did not buy it there? Oops. Sorry, does not work on your computer... unless you "break" the OS. This is the possibility which scares me.
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Which I have said multiple repeated times that is not going to happen due to the mass amounts of legacy software and corporate reliance on proprietary in-house software which will never go through the Marketplace.
 
HvyMtl said:
The issue is the Metro Marketplace. Microsoft wants to CHARGE the game developers to have access to the marketplace. This is the issue.
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Microsoft is providing a service to the developers. Why shouldn't it get paid for that? Do you think Best Buy stocks its shelves for free? That Amazon doesn't take a cut of the purchase price you pay? I don't know the exact numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the game developers got to keep a larger percentage of the purchase price for games sold through the Windows Store than for games sold through other outlets. Despite your worries the game developers may prefer to sell through the Windows Store.

HvyMtl said:
Monopolistic? Yes. Limiting gamers' choice? Yes. Increased cost to gamers? Yes.
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Monopolistic how? Is iTunes a monopoly? How does it limit choice? You can run games on the desktop and in Modern UI. It seems to me like it gives gamers more choice. How does it increase cost to gamers? By eliminating the need for retail packaging, distributors, shipping costs and retail costs it should decrease cost to gamers.

HvyMtl said:
And it smacks of the possibility of Microsoft limiting games / programs / apps to only those which are purchased in the marketplace. Did not buy it there? Oops. Sorry, does not work on your computer... unless you "break" the OS. This is the possibility which scares me.
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The iPad and Kindle Fire must frighten you then. Yet both are selling quite well. It seems other people don't share your fears. Indeed, the locked down nature of iTunes appears to be a positive feature for the iPad. People are more afraid of the actual reality of malware than they are of any speculative future limitations of the market place.
 
I'm waiting for them to charge Windows 8 users Live Gold to play online and access Netflix.

Personally I'm looking forward to Windows 8, once you get past the UI or get use to it, its actually a really nice OS. I'm hesitant to upgrade, but I have to learn the OS to help out clients and what better way to learn then to dive right in.
 
It was a reference to Xbox Live Gold, nothing has been said about it, but I would not put it past any company. I hope nothing like this will pop up.
 
RangerXML said:
It was a reference to Xbox Live Gold, nothing has been said about it, but I would not put it past any company. I hope nothing like this will pop up.
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Looking at Windows 8 as is, there's not really anything that ties one into paid Microsoft services, though the options are clearly there. I've not seen any mention of iTunes or Google Play for Metro, but given that Microsoft is supposed to be bringing Xbox Music to iOS and Android, I would suspect that Metro support for iTunes and Google Play are coming. Of course there's nothing to stop a person from using these services with a Windows 8 device, even a tablet, though of course the UIs for the current Windows desktop isn't suited for touch.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
Microsoft is providing a service to the developers. Why shouldn't it get paid for that? Do you think Best Buy stocks its shelves for free? That Amazon doesn't take a cut of the purchase price you pay? I don't know the exact numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the game developers got to keep a larger percentage of the purchase price for games sold through the Windows Store than for games sold through other outlets. Despite your worries the game developers may prefer to sell through the Windows Store.
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Providing them??? Seriously are we living in that much of a fucked up world....we consider taking 30% "providing".....

well no wonder why Gaben hates Windows 8. Microsoft wants 30% of Half Life 3. Fuck that, Gaben is right!! This is straight from the agreement....



The Store Fee is the percentage of Net Receipts that is retained by Microsoft as a fee for making your app available through the Windows Store. That percentage is 30%, unless and until your app takes in total Net Receipts of USD$25,000, after which time the percentage is 20% for that app. Net Receipts are the total amount collected from customers in connection with the download of your app through the Windows Store, minus any (i) sales, use or VAT/GST taxes collected from customers for remittance by Microsoft; (ii) amounts refunded to customers; and (iii) amounts owed to Microsoft under this agreement.

Source - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh694058.aspx
 
And who says that the developers have to go through the Marketplace?

The incentive for developers to go through Marketplace is that it will be installed stock on every Windows 8 PC, it works with Windows RT and Windows Phone 8. They can still choose to go through their normal channels, i.e. Steam, random game sites, etc.
 
Developers can go thru Steam. Or do their own order/download thing on their website. The Windows Store is your only avenue for anything on a locked device (RT Tablet) but it's just there on an open device (Windows PC, 'Surface Pro' Tablet) and you're not stuck with it.

It's not all gloomy as people wish it to be to fit their agenda of liking/not liking something.
 
RangerXML said:
I'm waiting for them to charge Windows 8 users Live Gold to play online and access Netflix.
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Don't even joke about that, I really want an xbox 360 to play forza, stream netflix and play call of duty -- but i refuse to pay a monthly fee to do something that every other console or pc can do for free....
 
My point was the Marketplace can be a limiting factor. And a cost increase. Say, for example, Microsoft decides you have to purchase items via the Marketplace for them to be "certified" to run on Win 8. Would this action limit selection? Yes. Would this action possibly increase prices? Yes. As MS wants its "fair" share. This "fair" share seems to be 30%. Are gaming developers going to soak up this charge to get certified by MS and allowed to sell via Marketplace? Many cannot, so you and I get to pay for the "benefit" of buying via the Marketplace.

Could MS prevent all different ways of adding software to your system? Not an easy task at all. However, they could lock up your OS in a manner where certain programs would not work, or would be "complained" about to the computer operator.

Now, most of us here, in this forum, would find a way to bypass. Most computer users, however, are not as informed. So, they will follow along, and would try to remove the programs the OS was bitching about.

I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but Microsoft needs new revenue streams, as smart phones, tablets, and now even notebooks and future desktops will not be running their product. (See Chromebook as an example.)

So, what guarantee will Microsoft give to make sure Marketplace does not become the only way to get new apps and software to work on your Win 8 and future products?

Conspiracy theory? Well, look at past actions of Microsoft.
 
HvyMtl said:
So, what guarantee will Microsoft give to make sure Marketplace does not become the only way to get new apps and software to work on your Win 8 and future products?

Conspiracy theory? Well, look at past actions of Microsoft.
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Please do look at the past actions. We've historically focused on an open platform, and we also know the potential antitrust costs of behaving in the manner you're positing. Your hypotheticals are unfounded.
 
Again, legacy software and proprietary software will keep Windows open.

Microsoft has already laid out the Windows 8 certification process, and it does not require the program to go through the Marketplace.
 
People in this thread seem to think that the 30% charge to put your app into the Windows Store is in addition to the normal costs associated with bringing a program to retail. It is not. It is instead of those costs.

If you think that when you buy a $50 game from the game store that more than $35 of the money you spend goes to the programmer you are delusional. The retailer probably has a 60% to 100% markup on that game, so that's $15-$25 to the retailer. The distributor probably has a 40% markup, so that's $7-$10. The publisher takes a cut as well, likely over 100%. After all that the actual programmer is lucky to get back 10% of the purchase price, and likely doesn't even see that much. Indeed, the programmer probably just got paid a salary and doesn't see any extra income no matter how well the game sells. A business model that gives the programmer, the actual creator of the game, 70% of monies spent on a game is a dream come true for a programmer, assuming of course people are actually willing to buy the game.

Far from limiting choice, this type of business model will allow more programmers more access to more consumers. More programs competing for consumers' limited money will keep prices down, not increase them. Low prices in turn will attract more consumers. Since programmers will get a larger percentage of money paid returned to them, more will enter the game even if sale prices are lower. It's a win-win situation for programmers and consumers, and a win for Microsoft as they get a new stream of income. Why on earth would Microsoft decide to kill off a goose that is laying golden eggs? Setting aside the febrile fantasies of the paranoiacs, what possible business case is there for disrupting the market place they are trying so hard to create?
 
Exactly, you guys think that devs selling programs on either apple store, the android market or hell even steam are making a higher percentage of their sale price? If i remember right from when the prices were first announced a few months back the terms were considered about average for smaller apps, and quite good for high selling ones.

You know why gaben hates windows 8 and the store? Because it's the first REALLY big threat to Steam's current dominance of the pc game space.
 
jkr266 said:
You know why gaben hates windows 8 and the store? Because it's the first REALLY big threat to Steam's current dominance of the pc game space.
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Yeah, I don't think the world was all that much in Gabe's corner when he slammed Windows 8 because right or wrong he was definitely being self-serving and everyone realized that.
 
i have been running windows 8 RTM trial for a couple of days and have had no issues playing BF3 or steam games or even running steam for that matter. I think the windows store is just put software out there over across all platforms like the apps you can run on a tablet or smartphone. I doubt they will use it for any hardcore games.
i doubt they will limit traditional software to run on their os that would be sucide
 
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