Hackers Aim Ruse at Apple Computer Users

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but Apples are completely free of all viruses, malware, and everything. Thats what the geniuses told me and they know everything dont they?
 
Sabrewulf165 said:
That's a pretty laughable assertion. I'll take secunia's analysis over yours any time.
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What analysis are you referencing because it's clear from your post you didn't bother to click on any of the links and read the information provided. Anyone who bothers to actually follow the links will know that what I'm talking about and that you're talking out your ass.
 
mope54 said:
What analysis are you referencing because it's clear from your post you didn't bother to click on any of the links and read the information provided. Anyone who bothers to actually follow the links will know that what I'm talking about
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And it's clear from your post that you either lack basic reading skills, or didn't read his post either. I'm referring to the glut of security vulnerabilities that exist in Mac OS. Take notes if you can't keep up.

and that you're talking out your ass.
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Nice to meet you, pot. You're quite a joker.
 
Sabrewulf165 said:
And it's clear from your post that you either lack basic reading skills, or didn't read his post either. I'm referring to the glut of security vulnerabilities that exist in Mac OS. Take notes if you can't keep up.



Nice to meet you, pot. You're quite a joker.
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OK, explain my lack of reading skills compared to yours:

152 Secunia Advisories in 2003-2011
Secunia has issued a total of 152 Secunia advisories in 2003-2011 for Apple Macintosh OS X. Currently, 5% (8 out of 152) are marked as unpatched
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http://secunia.com/advisories/product/96/?task=advisories

65 Secunia Advisories in 2003-2011
Secunia has issued a total of 65 Secunia advisories in 2003-2011 for Microsoft Windows 7. Currently, 8% (5 out of 65) are marked as unpatched
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http://secunia.com/advisories/product/27467/?task=advisories

or given that you want to "trust" Secunia's "analysis" perhaps we should take them at their own word about it:
PLEASE NOTE: The statistics provided should NOT be used to compare the overall security of products against one another. It is IMPORTANT to understand what the below comments mean when using the statistics, especially when using the statistics to compare the vulnerability aspects of different products.

Secunia advisories often cover multiple vulnerabilities. Consequently, the number of advisories issued for a product does not always reflect the number of security issues that have been disclosed. For instance, in 2006 Secunia issued more than 5,000 advisories covering more than 9,000 vulnerabilities. This is counted AFTER removing duplicates generated by Linux distributions, issues in beta software, and what Secunia considers non-issues and fake issues that our competitors and other security vendors often write about.

It should also be noted that some operating systems (e.g. certain Linux distributions) bundle together a large number of software packages, and are therefore affected by vulnerabilities, which do not affect other operating systems (e.g. Microsoft Windows) that don't bundle together a similar amount of software packages.

Additionally, the number of unpatched vulnerabilities for a product may be affected by the fact that certain products (product bundles) consist mostly or solely of third party software (such as Linux distributions). Secunia tracks the number of issues fixed by the product vendor and not the issues reported in the third party software; this affects the statistics looking at unpatched issues A direct and fair comparison of unpatched issues for e.g. Microsoft Windows and Linux distributions is therefore NOT possible using the aggregated Secunia statistics. Such a comparison can only be made by tracking the upstream third party software included in Linux distributions and combining this with Linux distributions' own patches before comparing this with the aggregated statistics for Microsoft Windows operating systems.

Factors such as vendor response times and ability to properly fix vulnerabilities should also be considered when comparing products. Writing 100% secure code is virtually impossible, hence the vendor's responsiveness, willingness, and ability to provide quality patches to all its customers in a fast a reliable way is at least as important as the sheer number of vulnerabilities when considering the security of a product.
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But the reality is that you don't know any of this because you didn't actually bother to follow the links he posted and, given that you just tried to undermine what I wrote again without even bothering to do the most rudimentary research, clearly talking out your ass.
 
mope54 said:
OK, explain my lack of reading skills compared to yours:
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Last time I checked, 8 was more than 5. But that's beside the point, which was that he backed up his post with reasonably trustworthy sources instead of just talking out of his ass like you've been doing all along (while accusing other people of it, how nice :rolleyes: ) Because his interpretation of said sources doesn't agree with your own, you sweepingly mischaracterize his entire post.

But the reality is that you don't know any of this because you didn't actually bother to follow the links he posted and, given that you just tried to undermine what I wrote again without even bothering to do the most rudimentary research, clearly talking out your ass.
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I don't need to undermine you, you do a fine job of undermining yourself with your petulant attitude and clear bias. And before you waste your time posting another fit, just know that I won't be reading it.
 
Sabrewulf165 said:
Last time I checked, 8 was more than 5. But that's beside the point
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Actually, it was exactly his intended point...except that he is dead wrong because he didn't bother to click on the analysis section of the links he provided (and didn't bother to either read or relay the most important part where the source specifically warns against using the data to make the unfounded arguments he tried to do).

Because his interpretation of said sources doesn't agree with your own, you sweepingly mischaracterize his entire post.
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Interesting, because this is exactly what I wrote about his post:
Not if you click on the links he provided and actually read the content.

Not to mention that he's wrong with his definition of a virus vs. trojan...and his claim that no one cares since it doesn't matter.
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A virus does not require user interaction to deliver its payload whereas a trojan does. His position is that:
this distinction is pointless to everyone, but Mac users. Why? Windows Viruses don't really exist anymore. Viruses do one thing: Trash the system and make it unusable.
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This isn't a case of his interpretation of "said sources doesn't agree with [my] own", he's factually incorrect and spreading harmful information.

I'm not sure if that's my favorite part or if it's his claim that the only vulnerabilities in OSX are due to Apple's additions to BSD.

Unlike both of you, I actually dug through the advisories to find the last unpatched one and this is what I found:
Description
A vulnerability has been discovered in Mac OS X, which can be exploited by malicious people to potentially compromise a vulnerable system.

The vulnerability is caused due to an error in libc when processing floating point numbers passed to the "strtod()" function. This can be exploited to corrupt memory when an application passes a specially crafted floating point number to the "strtod()" function or another function calling it (e.g. the "atof()" function).

The vulnerability is confirmed in Mac OS X 10.5.8 and reported in Mac OS X 10.6.

NOTE: Currently, there is no application known that can be used as attack vector.


Solution
There is no effective solution.
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January 2010
http://secunia.com/advisories/38066/

sounds serious doesn't it?

I don't need to undermine you, you do a fine job of undermining yourself with your petulant attitude and clear bias. And before you waste your time posting another fit, just know that I won't be reading it.
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OK, put me on ignore because I pointed out your ignorance but we both know you'll be reading this eventually. I have a petulant attitude and because I point out bullshit positions? I do agree I'm clearly biased against people talking out their asses :D


My favorite part of this thread is that since I can construct a logical argument and deconstruct bullshit I'm regarded as a Mac user. I suppose Mac users should take that as a compliment, but I'm hard pressed as to why PC users would continually point out their lackluster reasoning abilities.
 
mope54 said:
I think the most interesting thing is the amount of ignorant PC users once again spouting bullshit...and apparently unwittingly swinging at strawmen while disparaging mac users.

Apple users don't walk around saying that they are impervious to malware attacks. What has been said is that there aren't any virii in the wild that can infect a mac. If you don't know the difference between a virus and a trojan or other malware then that's due to your own ignorance, not mac users.

It's unfortunate that gearburn mis-characterized this attack as a virus, but once again, that's speaks more to the ignorance of the readers perpetuating the strawman attack rather than the ignorance of mac users.
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I can't resist....


U mad bro?
 
As much as I hate to do it, I have to side the the couple defending mac here. Some of you are just posting extremely ignorant bullshit.

1) This is not a virus, it is nothing more then a phishing scam to load malware/rogue AV whatever you want to call it. This is the same stupid thing that people fall for all the time on PC. It is completely avoidable on both PC and Mac by someone exercising more then a few brief moments of intelligence.

2) Claiming mac users are dumber then PC users is a bit of a stretch. I deal with the full spectrum of both users and i can honestly say the bar is Extremely low on both sides. So really it can just be stated there are some damn stupid people out there operating a computer.

3) Claiming Mac users tend to be more arrogant then PC users. This in my experience does tend to be true. Granted the few hundred people I deal with is an extremely small sampling, but the attitude does seem more prevalent.

So my earlier comments were clearly targeted at the mac users that fall into the same bucket as the PC users who click on stupid shit. Some of you need to get your heads out of your collective ass and realize that at the end of the day mac or PC it will only be as secure as the user.
 
so the same shit that windows users fall for all the time is being targeted at mac osx users? and yet people are ripping on mac users all over this thread. dekoth-e summed everything up best.

oh yeah, boat to the rescue
 
mope54 said:
Apple users don't walk around saying that they are impervious to malware attacks.
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Yes they do.. I have personally spoken to several friends who are apple users and the first thing that comes out of their mouth is that "Macs don't get viruses" :rolleyes:

Obviously, we know the difference between a trojan and a virus, but to these users, they are one and the same. They've fallen, hook, line and sinker for the Macs are more secure line.

As for Mac users being dumber than PC users.. that's debatable, you have some pretty dumb people on both sides of the camp.

On another note, this has been my first post in 4 years!!! :D
 
Sabrewulf165 said:
And it's clear from your post that you either lack basic reading skills, or didn't read his post either. I'm referring to the glut of security vulnerabilities that exist in Mac OS. Take notes if you can't keep up.

Nice to meet you, pot. You're quite a joker.
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No kidding. Also note he completely ignored the Pwn2Own contest info. Completely. "I found one fault therefore everything else is invalid."

It's also quite clear he has no fucking clue what he's talking about. Example:

Quoth the idiot: "Not to mention that he's wrong with his definition of a virus vs. trojan...and his claim that no one cares since it doesn't matter."

Virus: A computer virus is a computer program that can copy itself[1] and infect a computer. The term "virus" is also commonly but erroneously used to refer to other types of malware, including but not limited to adware and spyware programs that do not have the reproductive ability. A true virus can spread from one computer to another (in some form of executable code) when its host is taken to the target computer; for instance because a user sent it over a network or the Internet, or carried it on a removable medium such as a floppy disk, CD, DVD, or USB drive.

Trojan: A Trojan horse, or Trojan, is a destructive program that masquerades as a benign application. The software initially appears to perform a desirable function for the user prior to installation and/or execution, but (perhaps in addition to the expected function) steals information or harms the system.[1] Unlike viruses or worms, Trojan horses do not replicate themselves, but they can be just as destructive.

My Description: Behaviour is the only difference between a trojan and virus.

Both are called Malware for a reason. "Mal"icious Soft"ware". The reason nobody cares to make the distinction between the two is because BOTH ARE UNWANTED TYPES OF MALWARE ON ONE'S SYSTEM. Why would you make a distinction if the only thing you can say is "Macs don't have viruses"? Same thing as saying "We're better cause we can only get trojans that carry a viral payload"... Once you start splitting hairs on cases of SYSTEM SECURITY, you've got a bigger problem than that piece of malware lurking in your iWork download.

I can just see it now. When the Mac Fantard here does end up getting his computer infected... and it WILL happen with the amount of ignorance that he displays towards everything... He'll rock back himself, slamming his back into the wall as he cradles his legs... Muttering about the end of the world not happening.

He's just another living example of how Apple really does promote user ignorance with their claims about MacOSX.
 
Sabrewulf165 said:
Last time I checked, 8 was more than 5. But that's beside the point, which was that he backed up his post with reasonably trustworthy sources instead of just talking out of his ass like you've been doing all along (while accusing other people of it, how nice :rolleyes: ) Because his interpretation of said sources doesn't agree with your own, you sweepingly mischaracterize his entire post.



I don't need to undermine you, you do a fine job of undermining yourself with your petulant attitude and clear bias. And before you waste your time posting another fit, just know that I won't be reading it.
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" And before you waste your time posting another fit, just know that I won't be reading it"
This last part made me laugh for hours, so passive-agressive, and one of the most ineffectual arguements I've ever been fortunate enough to come across. I will be using this line as often as possible in the near future as the comedic effect is nothing short of genius. Thanks you sir.
 
mope54 said:
I think the most interesting thing is the amount of ignorant PC users once again spouting bullshit...and apparently unwittingly swinging at strawmen while disparaging mac users.

Apple users don't walk around saying that they are impervious to malware attacks. What has been said is that there aren't any virii in the wild that can infect a mac. If you don't know the difference between a virus and a trojan or other malware then that's due to your own ignorance, not mac users.

It's unfortunate that gearburn mis-characterized this attack as a virus, but once again, that's speaks more to the ignorance of the readers perpetuating the strawman attack rather than the ignorance of mac users.
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While I realize that some mac users may be the exception, I think you need to spend more time around the average mac user- which is where these stereotypes come from. Mac users in general *do* say they are impervious to everything, and that is there only arguement when some criticizes their decision to pay the extra money for an Apple.
 
techrat said:
No kidding. Also note he completely ignored the Pwn2Own contest info. Completely. "I found one fault therefore everything else is invalid."

It's also quite clear he has no fucking clue what he's talking about. Example:

Quoth the idiot: "Not to mention that he's wrong with his definition of a virus vs. trojan...and his claim that no one cares since it doesn't matter."

Virus: A computer virus is a computer program that can copy itself[1] and infect a computer. The term "virus" is also commonly but erroneously used to refer to other types of malware, including but not limited to adware and spyware programs that do not have the reproductive ability. A true virus can spread from one computer to another (in some form of executable code) when its host is taken to the target computer; for instance because a user sent it over a network or the Internet, or carried it on a removable medium such as a floppy disk, CD, DVD, or USB drive.

Trojan: A Trojan horse, or Trojan, is a destructive program that masquerades as a benign application. The software initially appears to perform a desirable function for the user prior to installation and/or execution, but (perhaps in addition to the expected function) steals information or harms the system.[1] Unlike viruses or worms, Trojan horses do not replicate themselves, but they can be just as destructive.

My Description: Behaviour is the only difference between a trojan and virus.

Both are called Malware for a reason. "Mal"icious Soft"ware". The reason nobody cares to make the distinction between the two is because BOTH ARE UNWANTED TYPES OF MALWARE ON ONE'S SYSTEM. Why would you make a distinction if the only thing you can say is "Macs don't have viruses"? Same thing as saying "We're better cause we can only get trojans that carry a viral payload"... Once you start splitting hairs on cases of SYSTEM SECURITY, you've got a bigger problem than that piece of malware lurking in your iWork download.

I can just see it now. When the Mac Fantard here does end up getting his computer infected... and it WILL happen with the amount of ignorance that he displays towards everything... He'll rock back himself, slamming his back into the wall as he cradles his legs... Muttering about the end of the world not happening.

He's just another living example of how Apple really does promote user ignorance with their claims about MacOSX.
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I don't think this could have been stated any better.

Sorry for the lack for words on my side, but damn dude, you can really hit the nail on the head with that post. :D
 
People in this thread have to seriously quit it with the name calling.

Here are the people I know who use Macs:
  • Sister (OK, certifiable eejit :))
  • Friend (otherwise an open source zealot; happens to build DoD-compliant security software)
  • Multiple software and services architects
  • phide (Tier Zero, y'all)
mope54 said:
A virus does not require user interaction to deliver its payload whereas a trojan does.
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I think you're confusing virus with worm.
 
dr.kevin said:
i wonder why there isn't MORE malware for mac at the moment.
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My question is how do we know there isn't? It's not like they ever (ok, there are the very few with a clue) run antivirus or anti malware apps. It's easy to claim you have zero infections when you've never bothered to get checked out.
 
niconx said:
If anything the Mac users would be better targets. In my experience Mac users are uneducated computer users who have plenty of disposable income to purchase whatever might popup on the screen instructing them to upgrade to something more magical. It wouldn't be difficult to spoof legitimate Apple advertising, maybe even a commercial video preceding the transaction. Just look at the Apple commercials on TV, they actually advertise the fact that they do your shopping for you. Totally sheepish behavior is ripe for exploitation.
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+100000000000

looooool so True
 
There are ignorant users for both PC and Mac. And this has nothing to do with Windows or OSX.
 
Staples said:
The amount of PC centric bias in this thread is amazing.
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PC Bias... on a site called HardOCP?

You can only repost the same article on how to [H]ard up your Mac (toss it out, buy a new one) so many times before it's pointless. In any case, Mac users really need to stop pretending that they're any different because of the brand of PC they have. You've got a need to run Antivirus and it runs x86 code.
 
It's funny that in regards to this malware issue, people focus more on criticizing Apple (the victim) and leaves out the hackers (the offenders).

It is like making fun of a murder victim for being stupid enough on getting himself killed and then just forget about the killer...
 
Haiku214 said:
It's funny that in regards to this malware issue, people focus more on criticizing Apple (the victim) and leaves out the hackers (the offenders).

It is like making fun of a murder victim for being stupid enough on getting himself killed and then just forget about the killer...
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Uh, no. It's nothing like murder.

Analogy fail.

People criticize Apple for promoting ignorance about computer security, claiming superiority because it all "just works" and then trying to hush the issue by ordering employees to neither "confirm nor deny" the existence of the malware.

More recently: They got this big on claiming that they were better than "PC"... yet are caught making the EXACT SAME SECURITY MISTAKES that they spent millions of advertising dollars lambasting "PC" for.

Here's a better analogy for you.

It's like laughing at the person who told you to "Never throw stones when you live in a greenhouse" and then finding them cut and bloody because... they were living in a greenhouse and decided to throw stones.
 
techrat,
if you're so jealous and sour, why don't you just make the switch?
 
Oh wow! I can see it right now, a new Mac vs PC commercial, courtesy of Steve Jobs.

It goes like this. (pc guy) says hey mr. mac how you feeling today? (mac guy) says "oh I'm having problems, I'm feeling sick".

Then the pc guy comes over to mag guy and shits right on his face.
 
Haiku214 said:
It's funny that in regards to this malware issue, people focus more on criticizing Apple (the victim) and leaves out the hackers (the offenders).

It is like making fun of a murder victim for being stupid enough on getting himself killed and then just forget about the killer...
Click to expand...

Wait a minute, wait a minute... Apple is the victim? How about how they rip you (the consumer) off by selling you an overpriced computer. That has NO advantages to a PC that is 3 times less cost? Why do you people buy into this shit. Good lord. Why does everyone buy a fucking iphone? and ipads, and what every else crap they come up with. Good lord people.
 
Motley said:
Wait a minute, wait a minute... Apple is the victim? How about how they rip you (the consumer) off by selling you an overpriced computer. That has NO advantages to a PC that is 3 times less cost? Why do you people buy into this shit. Good lord. Why does everyone buy a fucking iphone? and ipads, and what every else crap they come up with. Good lord people.
Click to expand...
youmad.jpg
 
Dekoth-E- said:
1) This is not a virus, it is nothing more then a phishing scam to load malware/rogue AV whatever you want to call it.
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Right, which is still something that Apple acts as if a Mac running OS X cannot be affected by. That's the point.
 
Motley said:
Wait a minute, wait a minute... Apple is the victim? How about how they rip you (the consumer) off by selling you an overpriced computer. That has NO advantages to a PC that is 3 times less cost? Why do you people buy into this shit. Good lord. Why does everyone buy a fucking iphone? and ipads, and what every else crap they come up with. Good lord people.
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Show me a good Macbook Air competitor that is less than a Macbook Air? The Samsung Series 9 that costs more? Sure it has a more powerful processor but there is nothing out there that can compete at its price.

How about the competition for the Macbook Pro? There is a Sony that costs $1000 and even it does not have all the features of the Macbook Pro and it costs a whole $200 less. People who make these allegations and compare Macs to cheap shitty Windows PCs do not make a compelling argument and do not fool everyone. Sure Apples are more expensive for what you get than a comparable PC but they are not 3x or even 2x the cost. Maybe 150% at very best and even less for the entry line.
 
Motley said:
Wait a minute, wait a minute... Apple is the victim? How about how they rip you (the consumer) off by selling you an overpriced computer. That has NO advantages to a PC that is 3 times less cost? Why do you people buy into this shit. Good lord. Why does everyone buy a fucking iphone? and ipads, and what every else crap they come up with. Good lord people.
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Because if your product is broken you can go into a store and ask for a new one, hand them your old one, and that's it. If there's nothing they can do for you then they can hand you a new one without asking you to shell out some kind of repair fee. Generally this is applicable only if the product is under warranty, I am not sure if they are still willing to replace the product if its out of warranty.

At least this is what my Apple-savvy friends are trying to sell me on.
 
Emission said:
Because if your product is broken you can go into a store and ask for a new one, hand them your old one, and that's it. If there's nothing they can do for you then they can hand you a new one without asking you to shell out some kind of repair fee. Generally this is applicable only if the product is under warranty, I am not sure if they are still willing to replace the product if its out of warranty.

At least this is what my Apple-savvy friends are trying to sell me on.
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That kind of argument ends up being an indirect admission that Apple products are more prone to falling apart. That you NEED that kind of warranty service for your iProduct.
 
Staples said:
People who make these allegations and compare Macs to cheap shitty Windows PCs do not make a compelling argument and do not fool everyone. Sure Apples are more expensive for what you get than a comparable PC but they are not 3x or even 2x the cost. Maybe 150% at very best and even less for the entry line.
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The difference between Windows and MAC on laptops is that MAC develops their hardware overseas and builds it. They do not have another manufacturer put the OS on their own hardware and sell it. The analogy works only if the process is the same.

Now, the reason why most PCs make mention on MACs costing tons more is because if you build your own machine - it is quite a bit more for a MAC. If I want to build a Windows machine that can rival Apple's MacPro machine (starting at 2499$) which contains at default:

One 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Nehalem”
3GB (3x1GB) Memory
No Raid Card
1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive
ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
18X DVD/CD Drive
27 inch apple display
No additional software.

Total: 2499$

Now let's build a PC with the following items:

474$ Intel Core i7-960 3.2GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R ATX Intel Motherboard
50-100$ Case, you can pick your flavor to your style from hundreds of Manuf.
118$ ATI 5770 1GB
79$ 3GB (3x1GB) Kingston HyperX T1
59$ Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB
250$ 27" Monitor starting at around 250$
99$ Windows 7

Total: 1100$~ YMMV

Of course, the parts are all Apple Certified and such, so the comparison isn't 100%. But...for almost half the cost I can build a Windows Machine.
 
I forgot to add this in: The cost for Apple's most extreme setups may run closer to 135% markup over a PC. The marketing that I see in my line of business where I use MACs and PCs is this: buy your mac, and forget that you have to care for it. The issue becomes however, why would you pay almost another grand or more for the "peace of mind" to forget that you need to worry about Anti-virus?

I think that's the primary argument here. And unfortunately, I don't see how MAC users can really justify it. The PC can do everything a MAC can do. PCs have larger market share and thus more unique software. Sure they have their fair share of issues, but education is key. Now MAC users will need education on Malware on a more consistent basis, so I am not sure exactly how Apple can market their products differently now. Their software is easier to use? I am not sure, my 77 year old grandma enjoys her Windows 7 machine since XP and clamors that Windows can make it even easier.

Looks like Windows 8 is a big step in that direction.
 
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