H2O Redux

[jeremyshaw]

Howdy!

I started a wee bit of planning a while back, in order to reduce the amount of noise in my primary computer. After a flout with a SG02, P180mini, HAF932, and finally a SG05, I've finished my pathfinding and have decided to go mITX - all in

Without ado, and without any skills whatsoever, I'm going to make WaterCooling and mITX in a desperate chase for silence It'll be my first watercooling attempt (unless if a failed GPU loop - never worked due to bad pump - and a dying H50 counts ). I have one quirk - I love stock. So on the outside... everything better appear stock or I will likely lose it. The intent? Watercool the CPU and GPU. The HD5770 I have chosen for this task has an okay fan, but it does ramp up under load. The Intel stock cooler... say no more . Especially the even shorter i3 stock cooler. The 45nm C2D Alumi cooler was bad enough, IMO...

As such, I chose the SG06s - aluminum is really beautiful, pictures poorly taken can hardly do it justice. But I bear and try,

Parts?
XSPC Rasa 450 120mm kit
Gigabyte H55N-USB3
i3 530 [EDIT: replaced with a X3440 ]
SG06S
GT AP15
MCW80 GPU block
HD5770 [EDIT: replaced with a GTX460 - XFX HD5770 nonref *might* have different mounts, or the stock MCW80 doesn't include ATi mounts.... my MCW60 before this worked with my reference HD5770 and HD5870]
Micron awesomesause RAM DDR3


Some pics (please forgive me, I'll tidy up in a bit):






An IandH silver killcoil, AS5 TIM, anti-kink coils, DDR3, and a HD5770 didn't make the picture taking rounds

Thank you Jen, for inspiring me to try and beleive in mITX.... and for letting me purchase your Gigabyte mobo + CPU .

Thanks to cjwalker and scook9 (NBR) for helping me in other ways to make this possible

Dunno if my including their names in this is the right thing, or even a good thing for their reputations

Thank you! I will be updating this as my builds progress, my goal is to finish this by next weekend

Thank you!
-Jeremy Shaw (creative username...)

 

[Jen]

look forward to this build , enjoy your new toys

giggles

Jen

 

[jeremyshaw]

Thank you, Jen! I'll treat them well.

Some test fitting. The supplied washers help the XSPC RASA backplate from hitting any backside components. It still is above one, but it doesn't press on it



I like how the barbs are individually wrapped

Additional fit testing (this is later on, edited into the post):




I've decided on leaving the radiator like that, for now. Since it's seemingly okay. There is enough clearance so I can orient it every way except nozzles near the bottom. Nozzles near the GPU will give some space clearance issues, too, maybe if I used some angled fittings (barbs? I don't know the terminilogy) it could work?

 

[jeremyshaw]

I think I'm going to need a few 90* G1/4 barbs... any place to find them at? I had a hard enough time finding a XSPC Rasa 450 setup...

Oh, and yes... yes, I am indeed intent on sleeving At least the more visible parts


A case window *might* be fitted into the works, but that would be 4+ new things for me to learn on the way, and I know what happens to me and my projects once they get too ambitious. So if it's gonna happen, it will likely be near the end of my project

 

[cj3waker]

awesome man!!! I Cant wait to see this finished. Im doing something very similiar but waiting for the h67. you get that mcw80 yet?
I might have some 90s laying around as well

 

[jeremyshaw]

awesome man!!! I Cant wait to see this finished. Im doing something very similiar but waiting for the h67. you get that mcw80 yet?
I might have some 90s laying around as well

Heh, it's still shipping. It went east to Reno first, lol. Silly USPS If you have any G1/4 90 in 1/2" flavor... at least two.... I'm gonna let the rest of this go to a PM Thank you for your interest!!

 

[ekuest]

this is a much better use for that 530+H55n combo than what i had planned for it. if it had been up there for another week i might have been too tempted to resist. i was just gonna use it to upgrade my server though, which is boring. good luck on the project! ekuest <3s itx.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Thank you, ekuest

I got a nice xeon X3440 incomming now I'll probably dissable ht and a core to keep the tdp in check and relagate the i3 to my incomming ecs h55h-I setup

EDIT: also ordered two 90* G1/4 barbs from FrozenCPU. This project is now chugging along nicely

EDIT2: also a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate KB...

EDIT3: and now a Logitech Nano VX.... should be loads better than my OEM ASUS mouse. While it's served me faithfully for a long time, it has a tendancy to skip around when I need it to work properly... and is highly tempermental with the surface it's used upon

 

[jeremyshaw]

So..... even with the HD5770 + i3 combo taking most of the TDP able to be dissapated up, even excluding the HD5770's VRAM and the i3's IGP.... I'm not known for being smart

I already bought a X3440 since the project began. Okay... a lither extreme, but still.... I can disable cores and HT. Then, I decided, hey, why not get a GTX460.... so....... .... .... long story somewhat short, I got a GTX460 768MB incomming in the mail. About 150W of TDP in that card, alone. Much less in the much more power efficient HD5770 Of course, the performance isn't the same, but still...

*ahem* anyhow, a H50 managed to keep an overclocked i7 930 (4.0GHz, 1.28V) under 80C, so I should be able to keep both the GTX460 and the X3440 under a reasonable temp range... the RS120 rad is about 1.5x thicker than the H50 and also has the same fin density, based on an eyeball comparison. So if a H50 could keep a near 200W monster silent (yeah... 1400 RPM GT did the trick ), I should be able to keep a GTX460 + X3440 w/o HT silent, too. Cool.... maybe not very much so

 

[sabregen]

well if I had known THIS is what you're doing with my CPU...

 

[jeremyshaw]

well if I had known THIS is what you're doing with my CPU...

Heh. It's a good use of the CPU, at least



So.... here is a little diversion from the main project. I ordered more than just a few parts, so some overflow had to be accounted for.

My Father's comp is on the right (my SG05 pathfinding that lead into this project ). He doesn't know it, but I'm about to move his old 2GB to 4GB of DDR2 niceness Active project is in the middle.

Old DDR2 used to take 2.1V... booo...


Ahhh....


Heads will roll. Stinks. Oh, well. I think that is the G80 mount, and the only other one I have is the GT200 one. At least I have a GTX460 incomming, so that *should* fit the G80 mount.... at least I hope it will Looks like my father gets a double upgrade today, lol. Out pops the HD4350... in goes the HD5770 He'll probably never know the performance difference


E7200 + HD5770 on a Zotac 9300 board. Buggy out of the world, and it's his work comp.... so.... I'll probably replace it with the ECS H55h-I board I have incomming, and the i3 530 that has become displaced since my last round of upgrades....


Thank you!! I'll see everybody next round Except for the slight issue with the MCW80 mount, everything is going into overdrive.... I like it. Sleeving is getting done, anti-kink is getting done... ahhh....

 

[jeremyshaw]

Done with all my editing.... I should just let the post stay in the editor before finally submitting it in, lol.... then I'd have to learn to not accidentally hit ctrl+f5 as often

 

[theseeker]

Before you use AS5, you should read this review http://skinneelabs.com/tim.html

 

[ekuest]

haha make up your mind!!! im in the same boat as you, trying to limit my power usage. got a 450W sfx psu, with a 5870 and an i7 860. i know the max tdp of the 5870, but do you have any way of finding out about how much power savings you get from disabling cores, disabling ht, underclocking, undervolting, etc? i had my cpu set to stock 2.8 HT off, and at the lowest voltage it would go at that speed and stay stable which was like .975V or something. i know that its under 450W total since my computer runs fine, but i have no idea if i have 50W headroom, or 200W. any ideas? im thinking about investing in a kill-a-watt, but thats only helpful if you know what efficiency your psu is running at. i guess i can tell if its drawing ~500W then im maxed, and if im drawing ~300W then i have tons of room...

 

[jeremyshaw]

Before you use AS5, you should read this review http://skinneelabs.com/tim.html

Thanks I guess I'll have to apply more cas[H] into this project!! AS5 being middle of the line... I wish I didn't recommend it so much to my friends, now, though it's all I could find at the local Fry's, save some generic white paste

haha make up your mind!!! im in the same boat as you, trying to limit my power usage. got a 450W sfx psu, with a 5870 and an i7 860. i know the max tdp of the 5870, but do you have any way of finding out about how much power savings you get from disabling cores, disabling ht, underclocking, undervolting, etc? i had my cpu set to stock 2.8 HT off, and at the lowest voltage it would go at that speed and stay stable which was like .975V or something. i know that its under 450W total since my computer runs fine, but i have no idea if i have 50W headroom, or 200W. any ideas? im thinking about investing in a kill-a-watt, but thats only helpful if you know what efficiency your psu is running at. i guess i can tell if its drawing ~500W then im maxed, and if im drawing ~300W then i have tons of room...

Heh.... a HD5870 will draw upto ~233W according to xbitlabs, whom's testing style I trust beyond any other (well, TPU is changing theirs to match, IIRC).
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-power-consumption-2010_3.html#sect0

An i7 870 platform at max is about 224W, though that includes the mobo, which is an early Gigabyte P55, iirc.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-870_14.html

I don't trust their power consumption figures here as much, as their CPU method relies on the CPU power circuitry efficiency, which is probably lower on a mITX board

CPU alone for them, however, was only ~91W












and on the project... ... ..... GTX460.... and GTX460 alone..... has...a different..... bracket... mount. I'm not exactly overwhelmed with joy on this little fact.

So I'm just going to take out a power drill, and let it glide into the proper locations, and make me a new mounting bracket out of an unsuspecting MCW80 GT200 mount. Just need the GTX460 here, first,

 

[kjeldoran]

So..... even with the HD5770 + i3 combo taking most of the TDP able to be dissapated up, even excluding the HD5770's VRAM and the i3's IGP.... I'm not known for being smart

I already bought a X3440 since the project began. Okay... a lither extreme, but still.... I can disable cores and HT. Then, I decided, hey, why not get a GTX460.... so....... .... .... long story somewhat short, I got a GTX460 768MB incomming in the mail. About 150W of TDP in that card, alone. Much less in the much more power efficient HD5770 Of course, the performance isn't the same, but still...

*ahem* anyhow, a H50 managed to keep an overclocked i7 930 (4.0GHz, 1.28V) under 80C, so I should be able to keep both the GTX460 and the X3440 under a reasonable temp range... the RS120 rad is about 1.5x thicker than the H50 and also has the same fin density, based on an eyeball comparison. So if a H50 could keep a near 200W monster silent (yeah... 1400 RPM GT did the trick ), I should be able to keep a GTX460 + X3440 w/o HT silent, too. Cool.... maybe not very much so

Thanks I guess I'll have to apply more cas[H] into this project!! AS5 being middle of the line... I wish I didn't recommend it so much to my friends, now, though it's all I could find at the local Fry's, save some generic white paste


Heh.... a HD5870 will draw upto ~233W according to xbitlabs, whom's testing style I trust beyond any other (well, TPU is changing theirs to match, IIRC).
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-power-consumption-2010_3.html#sect0

An i7 870 platform at max is about 224W, though that includes the mobo, which is an early Gigabyte P55, iirc.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-870_14.html

I don't trust their power consumption figures here as much, as their CPU method relies on the CPU power circuitry efficiency, which is probably lower on a mITX board

CPU alone for them, however, was only ~91W












and on the project... ... ..... GTX460.... and GTX460 alone..... has...a different..... bracket... mount. I'm not exactly overwhelmed with joy on this little fact.

So I'm just going to take out a power drill, and let it glide into the proper locations, and make me a new mounting bracket out of an unsuspecting MCW80 GT200 mount. Just need the GTX460 here, first,

I thought about watercooling my CPU and GPU when I first received my SG06, but I felt there just wasn't enough room with the setup I had at the time(had a longer video card). However, I did think about using a 140mm rad instead of a 120mm rad. This would remove the ability to use an ODD (heh, who uses those now a days...) and require some modding, but may offer more cooling performance.

Have you thought about using two fans in a push pull config for your rad? I am not sure of the dimensions of the rad that you have, but you may have enough room.

Also, the 150W TDP for the GTX460 is not the chip by itself. That includes the entire board so it will be lower.

I have an i7 860 @3.3ghz in the SG06 with the H50 and temps are at a max of 65C running WCG 24/7. Fan is a feser triebwerk at 12V intaking air from the front of the case. An i3 and a gtx460 should be okay on a 120mm provided you have enough airflow (which means more noise...)

 

[jeremyshaw]

I'm on my smartphone right now.

140 mm Rad was considered, however, would cost more than Modding xspc rasa kit. Also I already had gentle typhoons

No space for push pull with hd5770. If gtx460 is longer, I'm in trouble.

Space for double pull, however. Maybe pull & shroud or reverse airflow pulse shorud? That would make Res/pump difficult, however.

I kinda switched the i3 with an incomming x3440, after seeing starcraft 2 results with clarksdale vs lynnfield..

I also primegrid, gtx460 = awesome for me

Will pro ably break stock sg06 with internal zalman fanmafe.


Thx. That's all for now


-Jeremy

 

[jeremyshaw]

Fan clears hd5770 but Rad does not.

EDIT: ordered GTX460 adaptor kit. I'm a bit too tired to try and figure this out on my own.

EDIT2: just waiting for parts.... expect this build to kick into high gear (barring any silly mistakes) this Friday Cause I'm just antikink my tubing right now. ALso thinking about sleeving.... but I don't want to undertake that without knowing my cable lengths, first.

 

[Nickbaldwin86]

I love that the CPU block is almost the size of the motherboard

Great build

 

[jeremyshaw]

I love that the CPU block is almost the size of the motherboard

Great build

Thank you! Posts like yours keep me going


Otherwise, I normally have a short attention span and lose interest I'll power through this, hopefully!

I have updates planned for Friday, but nothing before then. So... anything else before that is probably a false alarm (if you subscribed ).



EDIT:
If anybody wants the old OCZ ram I have (2x1GB DDR2 PC6400 kit), I'll let it go at the cost of shipping... it's used, though I RMA'd it (lifetime warranty ) and got a new kit back, directly from Taiwan I'll ship it in it's retail packaging via USPS Priority Mail, unless if something else is specified.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Hey.... so....another minor outtake.... .... I go back on my promises a lot, don't I?


Anyhow, SG05/E7200/HD5770 is crunching PrimeGrid (BOINC project), and it decided to shut itself down, so.... I did a little bit of research, and lo and behold, stock NB TIM application was poorly done!!

shocker!!

The HS in there... somewhere.



Dissassembly.



Bad TIM



Bad TIM removed. You might not see it, but there is a slight corner missing on the die Not really happy about this, but who cares, I'm going to replace this with an ECS H55H-I/i3 530 combo soon enough (~Monday or so)




--TIME LAPSE--
Reassembly



Crunchin' for all its got!! (I disabled the front LED since, like all Silverstone cases I have/had, obscenely bright).



On another page, I'm redoing a bit of the RASA mount. I used the AM3 kit parts to remount the block a wee bit better, as seen here. I think it's better, anyhow




I also redid the SB HS TIM on the H55n-USB3 board. Who knew, it felt fit and snug the first time around, because the TIM was more like a glue, lol. It made it feel a lot more snug than it really was.

Good thing I don't know of any SB WB, otherwise, I'd start getting silly ideas, Don't wanna get too far off topic before i finish up


Thank you! As previously mentioned, nothing major to see here. Not until Friday, that is
EDIT: offer for the RAM still stands, as per the last line in the previous post.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Hello....


It took some 30min to upload all the images, lol... Yep, a lol in the starting sentence

Some nice Koolance 90deg G1/4 1/2" ID barbs...


Attached to a RASA 450 combo unit


Another angle. Yes, it's a useless...use of your bandwidth.


Close up of the barbs installed


A GTX460 adaptor must of arrived


Random use of your bandwidth. Otherwise, just me testing the camera


Checking the TIM application.... while I remove the temporary i5 530 to upgrade it.


Some upgrade. Oh, well. In theory, the extra L3 cache allows this CPU to instagib a higher clocked i3 in Starcraft 2, at least according to TechSpot.


Some preliminary setup. And showing where the power adaptors will be for the GPU.



Lookie!! More stuff incomming Temporary RAM (waiting for the even more BA ram from Micron ) Also a Logitech Nano VX, that subtley owns my MS 5000 BT mouse. Mostly due to my insistace on BlueTooth being enough, back when I got the MS mouse


Come to think of it... there is a peeking box...


Ah! There it is!


Some accessories, including two 6pin extenders. Hmmm.... no need for them, lol.


Measuring some lengths. Just 10", including the bracket and cooler overhang.


TWNFRZR, you got nothing on the little feller' below ya!


Changing of the guards.


Cleaning of a massive IHS! And yeah, I do use q-tips and mouth wash for this


Honest! It's HUGE! I've never seen anything like it, in person. I don't even think my old GTX260 65nm came close!!


Hard to install, if you follow the guide, which I did. So only after the hard part, do I get pics To clarify, I apllied the TIM, then thought about attaching everything else. Doh!


Length testing It's as long as my XFX HD5770 nonref card is!!


Where it shall begin... lots' of work to do, now.


Well... more definitive length testing



Part one... Attach stuff. Anti kink stuff. Get cut. Bleed. Run out to get bandaid. Tape up sharp edges...


More installation.


Much more of it.


....**** **** *** ** **** and that ain't no ******* Morse ****. Anti-kink..... grrr.......


My messy happiness...


More of it


Angle #1


Angle #2


Angle #3 (yes... there is more!!)


You've exceded your carrier's bandwidth...


Taken to do some overnight leak testing


My messy workstation


That's really all I got! Load temps... I'll post them later, lol. They aren't too encouraging . I'm hoping cj3walker's wc'd SG05 turns out better (it will, since he thought his parts list more thorughly than I did ).


Obviously, a few things to gather:
No skills
Several bandaids
moments of frustration and fright...

I really *should* of installed the setup externally, after measuring everything. Really should of... It was easy to remove for overnight leak testing, so I didn't need to strugle for all I got today . Another note, is koolance ships their barbs with some kind of grease preapplied very lightly or something that makes attaching the tubes *much* easier. Swiftech... I dunno, man.... not the easist job today, lol.


Thank you
-Jeremy

 

[ekuest]

nice fit! too bad load temps arent that great... any idea why or how you can improve them?

 

[jeremyshaw]

nice fit! too bad load temps arent that great... any idea why or how you can improve them?

I've tried reversing the airflow of the fan, but either way, the CPU+GPU are reaching 80C+ (78C with fan set to "push") under Prime+Fur. Likely 120mm not being enough for a factory OC'd GTX460 and an X3440. And the noise is getting close to unbearable, the pump is okayish, but the GT-AP15 is at full blast trying to lower the temps. I likely did something wrong, I'll have a look-see tomorrow morning, when the leak testing is over However, my H50 is a bit smaller (in thickness) and barely hung onto an i7 930 OC'd to 4.0GHz @ 1.28V with some sub 40F air intake (past 77C, iirc).

Maybe I got a dud tube of fake AS5....

Thank you!
-Jeremy

 

[cj3waker]

ahh sick man! are the load temps atleast manageable? im starting to worry

 

[jeremyshaw]

yeah, likely manageable. The GTX460 is factory OC'd and HT is still enabled. I haven't got around to disabling them, since the whole loop is outside for overnight leak testing.

 

[ekuest]

yeah as5 isnt great. try some ceramique or something and also check your application on the as5, maybe it wasnt that great. but if both temps are about the same then its probably not the application. do you have any fans exhausting air out of the case other than the psu? also, did you try undervolting your cpu, or lowering the overclock if its overclocked?

 

[jeremyshaw]

I'll try most of that tomorrow (undervolting, disable HT, reapply TIM) Thank you!

 

[jeremyshaw]

Road to bankruptcy

SG05 450 for the PSU, case will be used for the second mITX build I have.

 

[cj3waker]

hey it looks like your anti kink is 5/8" so i dont think its gonna work, thanks though. I might pick some up

 

[HaxEJxuK]

That sounds about right. I'm trying to find way to lower temp too with my build. I'm using H50 and I had to drop my OC to 3.6Ghz with my 750. H50 is push/pull with fan spinning at 1350RPM. First 5 passes stays around 70c but if I run another IBT, it goes up to 78c and still climb.

I think main reason why temp so high is that side and bottom vent is not big enough to exhaust or intake(depends on your set up) I'm thinking about cutting slanted part of front cover and maybe cover it with modders grill or something. That way there's more opening for vent. Hmmmm maybe I should test with out front cover blocking first before I start cutting. I'll let you know what happens with mine as well as update my build too(I really should update it with some pics too. )

What is your current OC?

I've tried reversing the airflow of the fan, but either way, the CPU+GPU are reaching 80C+ (78C with fan set to "push") under Prime+Fur. Likely 120mm not being enough for a factory OC'd GTX460 and an X3440. And the noise is getting close to unbearable, the pump is okayish, but the GT-AP15 is at full blast trying to lower the temps. I likely did something wrong, I'll have a look-see tomorrow morning, when the leak testing is over However, my H50 is a bit smaller (in thickness) and barely hung onto an i7 930 OC'd to 4.0GHz @ 1.28V with some sub 40F air intake (past 77C, iirc).

Maybe I got a dud tube of fake AS5....

Thank you!
-Jeremy

 

[HaxEJxuK]

I'm running IBT now with front cover off. It looks like it drops about 10c with front cover off and doesn't go Up another 10c running IBT for second time. I guess I need to mod front cover after all.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Yeah, I'm not too overjoyed, either. And does youtube have a file size limit? my 1.4GB file upload keeps on failing (HD cam, lol).

hey it looks like your anti kink is 5/8" so i dont think its gonna work, thanks though. I might pick some up

Wait... so you don't want it? AFAIK, Anti-kink has to be on rather tight, and not loose... so it applies on rather well... I think?





So, in my long term planning... I'm actually going to ditch this W/C idea, and I already got a Shuriken on the cheap. eVGA HAF bracket and backplate incomming for the GTX570

HOWEVER... as noted, I did order another SG05 case. I also have.... a spare i3 530, spare H55H-I, and spare 2GB DDR3 just laying around doing nothing. Well, for that matter, a GTX460 about to join them. So... since I do want a 24/7 PrimeGrid cruncher, I've decided to W/C that. I've already let the loop run overnight, and the leaking... seems noneexistant. However, one of the 4 hex screws holding the RASA block together gives no resistance nomatter how far I turn it... should I be worried? The other 3 don't let me screw in any further. The 4th screw just... doesn't seem to have threads!?

 

[ekuest]

Yeah, I'm not too overjoyed, either. And does youtube have a file size limit? my 1.4GB file upload keeps on failing (HD cam, lol).



Wait... so you don't want it? AFAIK, Anti-kink has to be on rather tight, and not loose... so it applies on rather well... I think?





So, in my long term planning... I'm actually going to ditch this W/C idea, and I already got a Shuriken on the cheap. eVGA HAF bracket and backplate incomming for the GTX570

HOWEVER... as noted, I did order another SG05 case. I also have.... a spare i3 530, spare H55H-I, and spare 2GB DDR3 just laying around doing nothing. Well, for that matter, a GTX460 about to join them. So... since I do want a 24/7 PrimeGrid cruncher, I've decided to W/C that. I've already let the loop run overnight, and the leaking... seems noneexistant. However, one of the 4 hex screws holding the RASA block together gives no resistance nomatter how far I turn it... should I be worried? The other 3 don't let me screw in any further. The 4th screw just... doesn't seem to have threads!?

the 4th thread is probably stripped. you can try filling the hole with some jb weld metal epoxy stuff and then tapping that again, or maybe tapping the hole with the same pitch but a size wider thread. if the 3 screws it has hold it fine, then thats probably good enough.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Ah, thanks! I'll open it up for a look-see, then probably tap it

 

[cj3waker]

ah well. atleast youll have a mini itx watercooled sugo! thats all the matters. you should look into the mk-13 for your 570

 

[zionic]

Found this from OCN. Awesome little beast.