GTX 970 + LG 4K TV "fuzzy" text and mouse issues

[arman01]

Hey guys, this is my first post in a long time.



I've recently upgraded the rig to include a GTX 970, Windows 8.1 and an LG 40UB800T 40 inch UHD LCD TV as monitor. I've since had several issues, and wondering if you guys could help out. I've read a ton online however am getting nowhere.

I've also learned about chroma subsampling and that this TV can only sadly do 4:2:0 for 4K @ 60Hz


1. Im aware of DPI issues, and have the setting at 150% - the problem is, the screen goes from displaying text smoothly to being fuzzy, seemingly at random (though i suspect its when i turn it off and on again)

To get text looking "clear" and "smooth" again, I have to change the mode back to "standard" from "gaming", then switch back to gaming and turn everything on and off again to get it working.

Again, I do not change any settings, it seems to switch back and forth as it pleases.

Scaling is at 150%, cleartype is enabled, resolution is 3840x2160 @ 60Hz using HDMI with an 18Gb/s capable HDMI cable through a GTX 970 running 344.75 nvidia drivers.

I can live with the reduced colorspace of this TV @ 60Hz, however not with the stupidly "fuzzy" / "aliased" text.


2. Mouse cursor movement is jittery, particularly when initiating movement or moving at a constant, slow velocity across the screen. Renaming the HDMI port to "PC" temporarily fixed this but now it is jittery irrespective of the settings.

Mouse is a MadCatz RAT 7 - I heard that this particular issue could be due to the polling or sampling rate of the mouse?

TV is running latest firmware
Windows 8.1 is up to date
nVidia drivers are up to date afaik
HDMI cable is 4K capable and 3m in length



Any help would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[Neon01]

I can't speak to #2, but I know from experience that 4:2:0 chroma gives you the fuzzy text effect that you're describing in #1. I really don't think there is a fix. The best you can probably do is minimize the effect through using the cleartext features in Windows. I personally could not live with it that way though.

Did you just buy the TV? Can you return it? I know the LG 49/55UB8500 do 4:4:4 with your vid card.

 

[arman01]

Thanks for your reply Neon01,

I understand the inherent fuzziness to 4:2:1, but this is not that.

Currently it is 4:2:1 @ 60Hz and smooth (relatively), but i know that it will not last.

In other words, the aliasing is worse than what comes from going from 4:4:4 to 4:2:1 and seems to be a separate issue

 

[Neon01]

Thanks for your reply Neon01,

I understand the inherent fuzziness to 4:2:1, but this is not that.

Currently it is 4:2:1 @ 60Hz and smooth (relatively), but i know that it will not last.

In other words, the aliasing is worse than what comes from going from 4:4:4 to 4:2:1 and seems to be a separate issue

Check to make sure that the TV is in 1:1 pixel mode (often called "just scan" or similar), and that no scaling is being done in the nvidia control panel (I think it's under screen size adjustment or something). Also, I believe there is a setting in control panel that sets over or underscan, depending on your TV. Make sure that is turned off so that no over or underscan is being done to the image.

Further, the only way for the image to be truly crisp is to turn off windows scaling as well. Set it to 100%. If you use windows scaling, it can work OK for certain apps, but there are quite a few that still don't support it. You need to disable it in those apps (right click on the app shortcut on the desktop, click compatibility, then check "disable DPI scaling"). Also, when you apply windows scaling, you need to at least log out and log back in to see everything as clear as it's supposed to be. If this display is a second display, and the other display has a different DPI, windows WILL scale one of them badly. This is a broken feature of Win8.1 and you cannot set scaling differently for different displays manually.

One last thing I can think of - make sure that any sharpness setting on the TV is set to 0 so you don't have "haloing" or "ringing" on the image. They're not meant for a 1:1 pixel map image source.

 

[arman01]

Thanks again for the reply mate,

It is definitely in 1:1 mode, and "no scaling" is selected in nVidia control panel. So pretty sure there is no overscan.

I've tried 100% DPI, but it is far too small and the 4:2:0 chroma becomes an issue then. The thing is, 150% is fine half of the time when it is playing ball.

I just restarted the computer and TV, and again it went back to having aliased/messy text - switched back and forth between "standard" and "gaming" modes a few times and voila, its smooth again.

I believe it must be a software issue with the TV itself? :-/

P.S. I always set sharpness to zero

Thanks again

 

[ChronoDetector]

I also have a LG TV and like yours, everytime when I turn on or off the TV the text will look fuzzy and to fix it I will have to switch HDMI inputs is the quickest way, though there is no permanent fix for this issue, not even sure if LG is even aware of this issue.

However, I have the LG 55UB8500 set which allows 4:4:4 at 60Hz, you'll need a 8500 series or higher to achieve 4:4:4 at 60Hz 4K unfortunately.

And for the mouse issue, I had to set the HDMI settings to PC which pretty much fixed it and never had any issues with it since. I just wish LG would fix the fuzzy text issue as it is annoying to having to switch HDMI inputs and back everytime just to make the text clear again.

 

[Chucco]

2. Mouse cursor movement is jittery, particularly when initiating movement or moving at a constant, slow velocity across the screen. Renaming the HDMI port to "PC" temporarily fixed this but now it is jittery irrespective of the settings.

I had the same 40'' UB800T + gtx 970 , I found the mouse problem very annoying,
I kind of found a temp fix for that but need more research.
you can do a quick test using the software Mousemovementrecorder ( http://smoothmouse.com/forum/topic/32-mouse-movement-recorder-records-mouse-pointer-movement/ )

Check your mouse after runnig the software, and then you will be glad to see that your mouse is responsive and smooth.

You also can see the difference by dragging any icon around on the desktop. , or even do a random selection rectangle on the desktop.

I think the mouse moving only is not important enough for the screen+windows to decide that the screen needs to run smooth.

Its a bit hard to explain the issue but I have the feeling that you had the same issue.
It worth going a bit deeper if you want to solve that.

Also , you will probably notice that your mouse feels great in games menu. ( same problem here, )

Its like as long as they are no infos or moving stuff on the screen, the mouse will feel crap.

Anyway, I had to get a refund for that screen because that was 3 problems in the end :
1- 444 60Hz not suported ( but looks ok )
2- Input lag not catastrophic, but enough to be annoying, especially with a 2nd screen, where you clearly see the difference.
3 - This laggy mouse in desktop but not with apps...

I hope it helps , and if you find a fix for the mouse let me know.

 

[arman01]

Thanks for the tips guys.

I think I have narrowed the the issue of aliased/fuzzy text - I believe it is a software bug in the TV.

It is called "Super Resolution" - Despite turning it off, this TV resets the super-resolution setting and activates it every time it is turned off and on again, despite the setting saying "off" - switching the setting on and off again fixes the issue, until the next reboot.

This is obviously hugely concerning as this TV is pitched as a gaming monitor and not all buyers will have the patience of going through each setting numerous times to try and find the culprit.

Overall, a bit disappointed in this set and considering returning it (If they accept a return + refund) and buying the 40 inch Philips set everyone here is talking about...

 

[Neon01]

As mentioned, I bought the 49UB8500 a few days ago, and I can confirm this TV seems to be doing exactly what you're referring to as well. I thought it was irreconcilable until I was monkeying around with my tv last night and fixed it somehow (likely temporarily as you say). I believe it had something to do with switching inputs to TV and back to HDMI3 - PC. When I switched back it was gone. Since I have mine set to PC, the option for super resolution is grayed out, so I can't even manipulate it.

So I guess the workaround is to switch inputs and back again if your tv turns off? Or possibly to turn super resolution on and off again (if you have the ability)?

I agree that it's bad enough to return the set over, but I'm on the fence now that I've found a workaround. As long as I can repeatably get rid of the nasty looking text, and not have to do it all the time, I'll probably keep my set.

 

[arman01]

That sucks to hear Neon - it is certainly annoying, and I too am on the fence about whether to return the set or not.

I suppose that's one workaround - mine is to select Game mode which allows changes to the Super Resolution setting. Or change picture setting from "Game" > "Standard" > "Game".

Alternatively, simply change your HDMI name to Game, change super-resolution from "off" to "ob" and back to "off", then rename your HDMI back to PC.

It's pretty shocking no one at LG has picked this up, especially as it appears to affect multiple models. If they can fix this soon, and perhaps the input lag/mouse issues, I just might keep it as I can live with the 4:2:0 chroma, especially as I only paid $750 AUD for it.

P.S. On an unrelated note, do you recommend SLI 970's?

 

[Neon01]

P.S. On an unrelated note, do you recommend SLI 970's?

If you game, yes, definitely.

I switched a few days ago from a 780 SLI setup that was watercooled. The 970s are so quiet I don't feel the need to WC them, but have to admit that they do get audible when the fans are going full-tilt (as the top card in SLI is apt to do when gaming). I'll say this though - despite the review here at HF indicating specifically that the 970 is a significant upgrade over the 780, I definitely didn't find that to be the case. LINK to the article to wit: "There is no doubt that GeForce GTX 970 SLI blows GeForce GTX 780 SLI and AMD R9 290 CrossFire out of the water and then some. The GeForce GTX 970 is a big upgrade from R9 290 CF and GTX 780 SLI." One of the first things I did was fire up Unigine Heaven benchmark to see how much better the 970s are, only to find that the 780s actually perform significantly better in that app (I got 38.6fps with 780 SLI @1200MHz vs 34.2fps with 970 SLI @1550Mhz). Luckily this seems to be the exception rather than the rule, but nevertheless, the difference isn't dramatic, if even noticeable, among any of the games I play.

With that said, I like the fact that they have HDMI 2.0 and are a bit more "future proofed" with features. I also like the new SLI sync feature, which does tend to keep the minimum FPS rates up more than my 780s did.

However, I still feel that for modern games, something greater than a 970 SLI setup is needed if you want to game at UHD and full eye candy.

I can't really speak to how much of an upgrade SLI is over a single card though, but I've been using SLI/CFX setups for the last 4-5 years, and at this point I've found that SLI offers good value if you're looking to game at UHD with modern titles.

 

[GoldenTiger]

I'm going to have to disagree... the 970 was a hugely noticeable upgrade for me from a 780 @ 1150 core on air at 4k, though I went 970 sli which I run quietly at 1554mhz core on both cards. While they don't bench well in some like heaven, 3dmark firestrike and actual games (when testing with it in single card mode sli disabled) saw across the board boosts, enough to raise settings and keep a higher framerate. With sli enabled on my pair of msi gaming gtx 970 cards I can run every single last game I've thrown at them at 50+ fps all times 60+ 95% of the time. This includes even ones like shadow of mordor, assassin's creed unity, and battlefield 4, all at close to ultra settings but using between no aa and 2x msaa in some titles. Generally lowering a setting or two down to high has been plenty to keep my framerate going well, and it's basically impossible to tell without zooming in on screenshots typically. Most every game has some absurdly demanding settings that add no particularly perceptible image quality gain but tank performance. I did the same thing since 2008 with 2560x1600 before going 4k in May this year. I now changed to the acer ips 32" b326hk 60hz sst 4k monitor and it's jawdropping.

Here's an oc vs oc review of the gtx 970 oc vs oc 780 and oc 780ti I found and posted awhile back:

Here's a review someone found I thought was worth posting as this kind of comparison is often cited but rarely has data to answer it so far:
http://www.reviewstudio.net/2028-asus-gtx-970-strix-oc-review-bring-the-maxwell-to-the-owl

It compares a 1228mhz GTX 780 Ti OC vs. 1300mhz GTX 780 OC vs. a 1530mhz GTX 970 OC, for the curious (boost clocks as stated in the text).

The 780 Ti in the review is stated to be running at 1228mhz boost in-game with 1975mhz memory (7900mhz qdr)
(http://www.reviewstudio.net/1179-as...iew-best-performance-dead-silent/overclocking) and you can find the same reference in the 780 OC review on their site.

BASE CLOCKS are listed by them in the graph. Boost clocks according to the review are as stated above . This is actually the best oc-to-oc comparison between a 780 ti at good clocks, 780 at good clocks, and GTX 970 at good clocks, that I have seen yet.

The gap in other reviews narrows a little at 4K, while remaining similar to 1080 when done at 2560x1440 resolution, keep in mind. (They have a 3dmark score in there too but list the combined, rather than GPU, score which makes it meaningless ). The GTX 970 oc'd stacks up very favorably to the GTX 780 Ti oc'd and consistently beats out the 780 oc'd.