GTS 250 giving poor performance

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IntelOwnz

Gawd
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Messages
710
Upgraded from a 8400GT (not even a gaming card) to a GTS 250 (aka 9800GTX+)
I play Crysis and WoW

I got about 10fps more using the new card.. a mere 10. It allowed me to take one setting from half way to 3/4 way up... that's it.

$120 for a brand new card and it's giving dismal performance at best compared to what I had. Either the 8400GT isn't too bad, or theres something wrong with my 250?
I removed all NVidia software before the install, put the new card in, installed brand new driver software from nvidia... Even tried overclocking it with EVGA's software, did not really help anything, i might of gained 1 or 2fps, nothing worth the decrease in life.

Any ideas here guys? Maybe the I'm expecting too much? According to reviews and fps benchmarks I should be getting more, I can't even play Crysis at full settings (Full w/o AA/AF/VSync).


core 2 quad q9400 2.66
4gb ram
74gb raptor
250 gts 512mb
 
umm, how computer savvy are you? i'd recommend OCing the C2Q a bit more but thats just my opinion, if you want to save a bit of money i'd recommend you return the card you bought, and wait until the new ATi cards come out, this gts250 will be going for less then $80 then.

PS: DId you remove all the drivers and re-install them? what method did you use?
 
if your talking 10 fps in WoW that is decent espically if your using vsync, or is it 10 in crysis cause if so thats bad
 
IntelOwnz said:
I can't even play Crysis at full settings (Full w/o AA/AF/VSync).
Click to expand...

At what resolution? Here's a HardOCP review of the ATi 4770 versus a GTS 250 playing Crysis Warhead at 1680x1050:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/04/28/amd_radeon_hd_4770/4

Try the settings they listed for the GTS 250. If you were expecting to play all Enthusiast settings at 1680x1050 or higher, that was unrealistic. Note that Crysis Warhead performs a bit better than the original Crysis.
 
risqu3 said:
umm, how computer savvy are you? i'd recommend OCing the C2Q a bit more but thats just my opinion, if you want to save a bit of money i'd recommend you return the card you bought, and wait until the new ATi cards come out, this gts250 will be going for less then $80 then.

PS: DId you remove all the drivers and re-install them? what method did you use?
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The Quad should be fine, not limiting a GTS 250 that much. However, I agree that drivers may be a problem installing new drivers can sometimes fuck up a system-- just as can keeping old drivers :D
 
Wow is heavyily reliant on the processor, overclocking it will give you a lot more performance. You could always return the 250 and buy my 260(216sp) for 125 : ).
 
IntelOwnz said:
$120 for a brand new card and it's giving dismal performance at best compared to what I had.
Click to expand...

that is where you went wrong!!! for 120 you could have gotten a 4870 512mb card. you should have done some more research before buying that card.
 
Yeah.. prices are wierd.
I got my 9800gt last month for 95USD!?
the prices for 9800gt are still in the 100USD range!?
 
9800gt shouldn't be more then $80. for $100 you can get 4850/4770 which is 9800gtx+/gts250 speeds.

for $120 you can get 4870 512MB for $140/150 you can get 4870 1g/gtx260.
 
what psu do you have in the system? Spunds like you have over estimated the psu.
 
look up the wow quad core fix for your q9400, a gts250 will easily max out wow but not crysis its similar to the 4850 in performance
 
I am playing at 1680x1050

I get about 25fps in Crysis playing at Medium settings

I get about 30fps in WoW at Medium/High settings

0AA and 0AF, Vsync is OFF



I uninstalled the drivers from Windows Programs, and then installed the new card, it used a temporary Windows driver, I then installed the most recent software from nvidia.com and rebooted.
 
hossdaddy said:
what psu do you have in the system? Spunds like you have over estimated the psu.
Click to expand...

I have a 450w psu in the system, according to every calculator I've used, which prove right in the past, I'm barely using 300W

1 dvd drive, 1 hd, 4 dimms of DDR2, no pci cards or usb devices
 
Oh and the cpu cannot be overclocked on this board, it was originally from a Dell. Foxconn mobo though, I've thought about trying to flash it with Foxconn's BIOS to see if it unlocks extra features
 
risqu3 said:
9800gt shouldn't be more then $80. for $100 you can get 4850/4770 which is 9800gtx+/gts250 speeds.

for $120 you can get 4870 512MB for $140/150 you can get 4870 1g/gtx260.
Click to expand...

Yeah.... but it was low profile.


OP: check to see if you aren't overloading the 12v rail. The manufacturer should have something about 'maximum wattage on 12v rail' listed, and it will be rather dismal (from what the PSU says it can do 'total').
 
the videocard is the only thing on that 12v rail, the psu has 2, one goes to the hd/dvd and the other goes to the videocard

i am very sure this isn't a power issue
 
crysis like others have said you should see a huge jump. Wow it kind of depends, as a lot of people have reported what you're seeing when they upgrade the video card.

Measure your performance using the same settings you were before. Crysis should have been barely playable with that old card.
 
hossdaddy said:
what psu do you have in the system? Spunds like you have over estimated the psu.
Click to expand...
Oh, shut up.

Sorry for being so harsh, but people regurgitate this line far too often, and there is nothing to back it up.

Things caused by failing / overloaded PSUs:
- Freezes
- Crashes
- Bluescreens
- Explosions
Things not caused by failing / overloaded PSUs:
- A moderate drop in framerates

Power issues can cause instability and they can cause physical damage. They do not magically underclock your GPU, and there's simply nothing at the hardware level besides a drop in clock rates which could explain rock-solid stability and steady performance at some fixed fraction of full capacity.
 
I think this is one time 3dMark could actually be useful. If you run it on your system you can then compare your results to those with the same card and similar CPU.

I can't comment on wow performance and while your FPS in crysis seems low to me. It's been some time since I fired it up and I don't know what part of the game your getting this low FPS at. Some parts of that game just bring some cards to there knees. But none of that matters.

You just need to find out if your system is performing as it should and I think 3dMark would be the best way to do that.
 
I usually HATE synthetic benchmarks, but I will agree to try it this one time and get back to you. Is the demo of 3d mark sufficient?
 
Start a game in window mode and monitor the core / shader / memory clocks. Your card might be downclocking itself due to high temps or a driver glitch.

Crysis isn't a good game to gauge performance though. It's a monster. On full settings my GTX 275 even hits the teens sometimes - depends on the level. I wouldn't be surprised if the GT250 hits the single digits at times on 1680x1050.
 
Keep in mind its a GTS 250. Not only did you buy the lowest end card, you bought a card that I'm assuming was designed to keep prices down on pre-manufactured systems. Like what has been repeated here over and over: The GTX 260 216 was a vastly superior choice.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/266005-33-nvidia-geforce-system-locks-playing

and

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/266362-33-crush-80º

Show that these cards aren't really designed to be pushed imho...if your system has poor cooling, your going to have issues. I will also agree its not your PSU, the list posted earlier is spot on: low power wont hurt performance, you will lock up or BSOD before you notice any prolonged slowdown.
 
Well maybe I'm under-judging the 8400GT then? I thought that was a 'non-gamer' card, just something to run Aero and HD movies...

Basically it comes down to 8400GT vs GTS 250, and how in the same games, I only saw ~10 more fps in those games when I swapped cards.

Going to install 3d mark today and compare the two
 
LuminaryJanitor said:
Oh, shut up.

Sorry for being so harsh, but people regurgitate this line far too often, and there is nothing to back it up.

Things caused by failing / overloaded PSUs:
- Freezes
- Crashes
- Bluescreens
- Explosions
Things not caused by failing / overloaded PSUs:
- A moderate drop in framerates

Power issues can cause instability and they can cause physical damage. They do not magically underclock your GPU, and there's simply nothing at the hardware level besides a drop in clock rates which could explain rock-solid stability and steady performance at some fixed fraction of full capacity.
Click to expand...

Shut up? Really? chill out tough guy. My observation is a ligitimate one, many people end up with psu's that appear to be adequate under normal circumstances but when stressed with a higher end cpu and mid range gpu will see these issues. There are plenty of 450w psus that only have 15-18 amps available and that is not enough for that gpu.
I
 
I still think you should return it and get one of the multiple recommendations in this thread. All of them are around the same price point with VASTLY superior performance. The gtx 250 really isn't a good card.
 
hossdaddy said:
many people end up with psu's that appear to be adequate under normal circumstances but when stressed with a higher end cpu and mid range gpu will see these issues.
Click to expand...
Many many people will immediately blame such problems on a PSU, just like you're doing. But I have never heard of anyone replacing a power supply and seeing their framerates shoot up, nor can I imagine any possible explanation for such a phenomenon.

Any overclocker can tell you what happens to a processor when it's not receiving enough power. I've never heard anyone say that their CPU is 24 hours Prime stable at 3GHz, but runs twice as fast at 2.8. Because that's just not how it works. When there's not enough power, things go wrong - they don't just go slower.
 
hossdaddy said:
Shut up? Really? chill out tough guy. My observation is a ligitimate one, many people end up with psu's that appear to be adequate under normal circumstances but when stressed with a higher end cpu and mid range gpu will see these issues. There are plenty of 450w psus that only have 15-18 amps available and that is not enough for that gpu.
I
Click to expand...

actually it's not as that doesn't happen. The issues he said however do happen with a low end psu. He may have been harsh but he was also correct.
 
LuminaryJanitor said:
Many many people will immediately blame such problems on a PSU, just like you're doing. But I have never heard of anyone replacing a power supply and seeing their framerates shoot up, nor can I imagine any possible explanation for such a phenomenon.

Any overclocker can tell you what happens to a processor when it's not receiving enough power. I've never heard anyone say that their CPU is 24 hours Prime stable at 3GHz, but runs twice as fast at 2.8. Because that's just not how it works. When there's not enough power, things go wrong - they don't just go slower.
Click to expand...

this is pretty accurate, things don't operate slower, they stop operating all together.
if the system was stressed due to not enough power i'd see bsod's or random shut downs

my pc is rock solid stable, never seen one crash in the past 6 months, memtest and hd tests, along with pcmark and 3dmark have ran without a hitch with the new videocard. will test the old one tomorrow to see the results
 
You basically went from an 8400 to an 8800. GTX250 just is not a great performer. You really should have sprung for the GTX275.

By the way, in WoW, make sure you knock the shadow setting down to the second highest setting or less. The highest shadow setting kills even higher end cards and the image quality benefits of it are minimal. Using the second highest shadow setting gives me a massive performance boost on the GTX275.
 
IntelOwnz- what are you using to measure FPS in Crysis? I just loaded it up last week and can give you some numbers for comparison as I have a similar system (C2Q and 8800 series gpu @ 1680x1050). The numbers will be a bit different since my cpu is clocked faster and my gpu has less SP and memory bandwidth, but it should still provide a ballpark value.
 
i personally think there is somthing wrong with the 250, but i dont think the 250 is an overall bad card. my 8800 does lightyears ahead of any 8400, and i know this because i had one. so if the 250 isnt performing well, then there is either a problem with that specific card or the system its in. i have to agree with the power supply in that if its too small, the system will just lock up or crash. they def do not just run slower.
 
Blackstone said:
You basically went from an 8400 to an 8800. GTX250 just is not a great performer. You really should have sprung for the GTX275.

By the way, in WoW, make sure you knock the shadow setting down to the second highest setting or less. The highest shadow setting kills even higher end cards and the image quality benefits of it are minimal. Using the second highest shadow setting gives me a massive performance boost on the GTX275.
Click to expand...

8400 to 8800/9800/gts250 is a huge jump in performance. Maybe you are just going by the number difference and don't realize how shitty the 8400 is. It's probably equivalent to a 2-3 generation jump in power. He should see giant performance gains on both games. When I was on a 2.8ghz Athlon64X2 I seen a huge jump going from a 7800gt(which I think is around par with a 8600gt) to a HD4830. His cpu is a hella lot better than an athlonx2.

I agree on the shadow settings. I would max everything out minus the shadows, 4xAA 16xAF. Also disable any transparency AA modes in nvidia control panel (huge performance hit if enabled). See if your frames are any different at those settings vs low/medium no AA. If it's running about the same as when you tried with no AA, it's probably the cpu and the fact its at 2.66ghz. GTS250 is a good card for WoW and should have no problem maxing the settings out.(Minus the highest shadows setting & full transparency AA)

Also I would boot safemode and run driver cleaner and clean out all the nvidia stuff and reinstalling again just for the hell of it. Personally I think if nothing helps, there's a problem with the GTS250. Even though its not the highest end performer, it's should be like holy shit this is a ton better than before compared to an 8400gt. Which is why I kinda dislike the posts where people are saying the reason for the poor performance is just because the 250 sucks. Even WoW should be a big difference when you bump the eye candy up.

Also interested in the 3dMark results.(think thats the first time I've ever said that)
 
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Still working on getting a chance to run 3dmark, been really busy this week, apologize for the delay
 
I agree going from 8400( which isn't anything near a gamer card) to a gtx250/9800/8800...
enough said, but have you ran like fraps for a time loop or any other type of time demo, and recorded the actaul difference?
 
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