Google, Unlike Microsoft, Must Turn Over Foreign Emails

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
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Fortune ran a story over the weekend about how Google has been ordered by a U.S judge to comply with search warrants requiring them to provide customer emails stored on servers abroad. This after we reported in July of last year that the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Microsoft did not have to do the same.

I'm not an expert on legal matters by any means of the imagination, but I thought the courts were supposed to consider legal precedence when ruling in cases like these.

"Though the retrieval of the electronic data by Google from its multiple data centers abroad has the potential for an invasion of privacy, the actual infringement of privacy occurs at the time of disclosure in the United States," Rueter wrote.
 

LightingGod

Weaksauce
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Regarding precedent- the judge that just ruled is located in Philly, which is part of the 3rd Circuit. Rulings in one circuit (i.e. the 2nd Circuit) are generally not considered to be binding precedent on judges in any other circuit. So if Google appeals, the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is under no obligation to adhere to the previous findings of the 2nd Circuit judges. However, the 3rd Circuit judges will look very closely at the previous 2nd Circuit decision before issuing a contravening ruling. When two circuits issue opposite rulings, the Supreme Court usually steps in to resolve the matter.
 

Uncle

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I have been a Gmailer since Google offered the service. I might have to concider just putting junk mail with them if they are not going to keep my email private, even though the NSA, etc probably get my email before google does.:)
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
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Regarding precedent- the judge that just ruled is located in Philly, which is part of the 3rd Circuit. Rulings in one circuit (i.e. the 2nd Circuit) are generally not considered to be binding precedent on judges in any other circuit. So if Google appeals, the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is under no obligation to adhere to the previous findings of the 2nd Circuit judges. However, the 3rd Circuit judges will look very closely at the previous 2nd Circuit decision before issuing a contravening ruling. When two circuits issue opposite rulings, the Supreme Court usually steps in to resolve the matter.

This is good information. Thank you for explaining!
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
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That's pretty cool. Sure looks like it might be easier to use than setting up your own Enigmail. How do they manage encryption keys though? Whenever your public/private key is managed by anyone else than yourself, you can't really trust the service, even if it is in Switzerland.
 

endalykt

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
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That's pretty cool. Sure looks like it might be easier to use than setting up your own Enigmail. How do they manage encryption keys though? Whenever your public/private key is managed by anyone else than yourself, you can't really trust the service, even if it is in Switzerland.

Zero access.

https://protonmail.com/security-details

ProtonMail's zero access architecture means that your data is encrypted in a way that makes it inaccessible to us. Data is encrypted on the client side using an encryption key that we do not have access to. This means we don't have the technical ability to decrypt your messages, and as a result, we are unable to hand your data over to third parties. With ProtonMail, privacy isn't just a promise, it is mathematically ensured. For this reason, we are also unable to do data recovery. If you forget your password, we cannot recover your data.
 

raz-0

Supreme [H]ardness
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I'm not an expert on legal matters by any means of the imagination, but I thought the courts were supposed to consider legal precedence when ruling in cases like these.


2nd circuit is NY, NH, CT. PA is circuit 3 with NJ and DE, and firmly believes you are the property of the state so fuck you and the constitution. So likely this judge disagrees and thinks you have no privacy and wants to create a split amongst circuits. That'll send it to SCOTUS.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
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The difference here is this, in Googles case a warrant was filed and approved on a US Citizen who lives in the US who just happens to have all his email on a server overseas. In Microsoft's case the government was trying to get the email of a US Citizen who was also a citizen of another country who lived in that country and their email was hosted in the country of residence.
 

Shockey

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The difference here is this, in Googles case a warrant was filed and approved on a US Citizen who lives in the US who just happens to have all his email on a server overseas. In Microsoft's case the government was trying to get the email of a US Citizen who was also a citizen of another country who lived in that country and their email was hosted in the country of residence.

Both still US Citizens. Both should be protected by same laws.
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
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Both still US Citizens. Both should be protected by same laws.
They are both being protected by the same US laws, the difference one doesn't have the protection of Irish laws. Interestingly with the Microsoft case though the FBI was able to get those emails but they had to get a warrant from the Irish courts as well then Microsoft Ireland obtained and transferred the data to the FBI.
 

the_servicer

[H]ard|Gawd
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I used to use Gmail and the like. Now I wonder why on Earth anyone does. Cost is not much of an excuse with Runbox starting under 1.70 USD per month. The remaining excuse is simple laziness combined with herd thinking -- some of the same phenomenon that also keeps Apple in business:

"It has a nice interface. The company talks big on security. A lot of other people use it. I guess I will too."
 

Lakados

Supreme [H]ardness
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hey when did the us get jurisdiction in any other country besides it's own.
They didn't, Corporations are people Google is a US corporation and therefore a US citizen they have ordered a US Citizen to hand over property they own that they currently have held in a foreign country. This is not an uncommon thing at all with physical objects or documents and as an email message can be printed it too is considered a document. This is all made possible by Googles own disclaimer which states that all messages sent and received by Gmail are the property of Google.
 

SvenBent

2[H]4U
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mailvelope plugin is really nice for gmail. but as always with encrypting two party communication. it requires the recipients to have it as well :(
 

SvenBent

2[H]4U
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i would love if the pgp/rsa based emails servcies would talk with each other with pggp encryption rather than syncron encrypting like with any foreign mail

so that e.g.g scryptmail would talkt directly with protnmail end sendt it encrypted just like with their own users.
 
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