Good monitor for programming? Everything seems to have some serious flaw...

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acti0n

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As I do research, it seems like literally everything out there has some deal-breaking flaw. For example:

Dell u2412m (and other 1920x1200 IPS displays): Heavy AG coating
Dell u2713hm: I already purchased and returned this due to cross-hatching and high-pitched buzzing.
Benq GW2450: I was excited about this thinking I found something both usable and affordable, but apparently it, along with most other LED displays, uses PWM.


Which ~24" IPS/VA panel do you recommend that meets the following criteria:

- good for programming (viewing text), and occasional gaming
- light AG coating
- no PWM
- no ridiculous defects plaguing most units such as those on the u2713hm
 
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I think the ridiculous defects are overblown. I got a PB278Q, love it for programming. It's 27" though, not 24".
 
william_fontaine said:
I think the ridiculous defects are overblown. I got a PB278Q, love it for programming. It's 27" though, not 24".
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I looked into that one when I bought the u2713hm, but decided against it due to numerous complaints about poor quality control.
 
The AG coating is a real problem on the u2412 espically on white backgrounds and I just returned one because of that. You could try looking at the Asus PA246q, it's a 24", 1920X1200 IPS monitor with a CCFL backlight (so no PWM). I saw one in the store a couple of weeks ago and did not notice the AG.
 
all 1200p ips use the same coating. the samsung s24a850d is the only 1200p ips/pls display w/o a grainy matte coating and it does not use PWM.
 
#Grey said:
The AG coating is a real problem on the u2412 espically on white backgrounds and I just returned one because of that. You could try looking at the Asus PA246q, it's a 24", 1920X1200 IPS monitor with a CCFL backlight (so no PWM). I saw one in the store a couple of weeks ago and did not notice the AG.
Click to expand...

I programmed on a 2209WA for years. It had high AG but it didn't affect my ability to use it for programming at all.
 
After returning the 2713hm for cross-hatching and buzzing, I ordered the 2412m which arrived today and got returned to Best Buy since the AG coating was too much.

It seems like the entire market is a crapshoot. Flawed by design, or defective due to poor quality control. I didn't think it would be this hard to find something that I can confidently say is an upgrade over my cheap, 3-year-old TN panel.

Any recommendations for what I should try next? Perhaps the Benq gw2450?
 
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Has something change in the coating since Dell's 2408WFP? It may not be perfect, but it sure beats having a glossy screen. Is this something that only affects IPS screens?
 
nilepez said:
Has something change in the coating since Dell's 2408WFP? It may not be perfect, but it sure beats having a glossy screen. Is this something that only affects IPS screens?
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The 2713hm antiglare coating was fine, so is that on my current TN panel. The coating on the 2412m is extreme and unnecessary -- if you can see the coating and it's so prevalent you're constantly aware of it, then you've essentially replaced one problem (glare), with another.
 
acti0n said:
The 2713hm antiglare coating was fine, so is that on my current TN panel. The coating on the 2412m is extreme and unnecessary -- if you can see the coating and it's so prevalent you're constantly aware of it, then you've essentially replaced one problem (glare), with another.
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So the crosshatch you on your returned 2713 was unrelated to the anti-glare coating?

Either way, I'll wait 6 months or so before buying a new model and my goal is for photos. For programming, I use 2 different TN's. If it was up to me they'd be MVA or IPS, but it's not.
 
nilepez said:
So the crosshatch you on your returned 2713 was unrelated to the anti-glare coating?

Either way, I'll wait 6 months or so before buying a new model and my goal is for photos. For programming, I use 2 different TN's. If it was up to me they'd be MVA or IPS, but it's not.
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Yea, the cross-hatching is a common defect with the panel itself. The coating is fine.
 
Get a 2560x1440 PLS like the Viewsonic VP2770, it does not use PWM, is factory calibrated, has a light, cross-hatching free coating and is slightly better for gaming than any of the other name brand 1440p displays, though it does not support 24p blu ray play back over HDMI like the U2713HM

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1732378
 
The benq GW 2460 uses no PWM. PWM is only a problem ate very low brightness settings, and even then only for quite a few users. My wife has been using a BL2400 for 3 months without complains.

Truth is modern VA panels are head and shoulders above IPS when it comes to reading, web surfing and coding- amazing black levels and fantastic contrast.

A programmer can not consider an IPS panel as a viable alternative as there so much compromises in every relevant metric that favor VA panels in the coding scenario: With better black level you have much moire contrast at lower brightness settings. And at lower brightness settings you will have less eye strain and less power consumption, a win-win situation.

Not to mention that VA panels have lower prices than same size IPS panels.

For the price asked fro a Gw2460 i would consider testing a 2450 first to see if the PWm really bothers you or not. Stay away from IPS panels if the monitor is really going to be used for programming.
 
geok1ng said:
The benq GW 2460 uses no PWM. PWM is only a problem ate very low brightness settings, and even then only for quite a few users. My wife has been using a BL2400 for 3 months without complains.
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I thought it was only the 2760 that had no PWM? I am pretty sure someone reviewed the 2460 and it still had PWM... although perhaps it may be like the Dell, and only in certain ones.

Downside to VA is the fact that the new ones are only 16:9 -- not ideal for coding.
 
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After doing a little more research, it looks like the GW2450 is out the question since it apparently takes 5+ seconds to wake up from standby.

I was toying with the idea of getting the Dell 2713H, which doesn't have the cross-hatching problems of the 2713HM, but it still has the buzzing issue and Dell's quality control is simply abysmal. They try to make up for it with a good exchange policy, but it's still a huge hassle.

I think I might just wait for Apple to refresh its Thunderbolt display.
 
If you are fine with 16:9, there are some other options available.

Perhaps the Eizo 2336 would be good enough --
http://www.eizo.com/global/products/flexscan/ev2336w/index.html

I'm not sure if it's IPS or PLS though... if the latter it should be a light coating. But it won't be supercheap. At 23", it may be a bit small vertically for you... not sure how much that matters to you.

Samsung has their 24" 650s (VA, semiglossy) and I think have released 23" PLS models, so they all should have a light coating -- but are not PWM free (that I know of).

And Dell has their S series which are glossy (23" IPS, 24" VA, 27" IPS (1080p)). Only some of the 24"ers may be PWM free, though. All 16:9. But there may be some overshoot with the overdrive on some models, if you are big into gaming.
 
acti0n said:
After doing a little more research, it looks like the GW2450 is out the question since it apparently takes 5+ seconds to wake up from standby.

I was toying with the idea of getting the Dell 2713H, which doesn't have the cross-hatching problems of the 2713HM, but it still has the buzzing issue and Dell's quality control is simply abysmal. They try to make up for it with a good exchange policy, but it's still a huge hassle.

I think I might just wait for Apple to refresh its Thunderbolt display.
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If Dell 2713 is inside your budget, all the more reason to use a VA panel.
And i honestly doubt any clains that the gw2450 takes 5s to wake up. The BL2400, same panel and more complex scaler wakes up faster than, say, my non scaler apple 30":rolleyes:

I cant vouch for the panel used in the 27"VAs from neq, as i havent tested them, but the panel inside the BL2400 ( and the gw2450) is the state of art for productivity LCDs.
 
The new Dell 2413 is the smaller cousin of the 2713H and looks like it will be my new programming display:

16:10 ratio (1 cm shorter display than 2713H but 8 cm less wide - this display is for work, not watching movies)
Pixel pitch 0.27 mm
No PWM
No cross hatching
Light AG
Probably no text buzz - the 24" part is different from the 27" panel which buzzes in the 2713H and 2713HM.
24" should also have higher yields than 27", meaning fewer defects let through to meet quotas.

Alas, it will probably be MSRP $750 when released and it doesn't have a US street date yet.


ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-prod...prt_Display/dell-u2413_User's Guide_en-us.pdf
 
Durlcear said:
The new Dell 2413 is the smaller cousin of the 2713H and looks like it will be my new programming display:

16:10 ratio (1 cm shorter display than 2713H but 8 cm less wide - this display is for work, not watching movies)
Pixel pitch 0.27 mm
No PWM
No cross hatching
Light AG
Probably no text buzz - the 24" part is different from the 27" panel which buzzes in the 2713H and 2713HM.
24" should also have higher yields than 27", meaning fewer defects let through to meet quotas.

Alas, it will probably be MSRP $750 when released and it doesn't have a US street date yet.


ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-prod...prt_Display/dell-u2413_User's Guide_en-us.pdf
Click to expand...

I would like a 2412m without the aggressive AG. The 2413 is that and quite a bit more, but, as a result, it's way too expensive for someone who doesn't require that kind of color accuracy. If I'm going to spend over $700, I'm looking at 2560x1440.
 
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