Goldman Sez Cryptocurrencies to ZERO

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
55,677
We already know that most of the fly-by-night cryptocurrencies are going to tube it, so no real surprise there. What can look forward to is being able to buy video cards to play games on by 2020.


Most digital currencies are unlikely to survive in their current form, and investors should prepare for coins to lose all their value as they’re replaced by a small set of future competitors, Goldman’s Steve Strongin said in a report dated Feb. 5. While he didn’t posit a timeframe for losses in existing coins, he said recent price swings indicated a bubble and that the tendency for different tokens to move in lockstep wasn’t rational for a “few-winners-take-most” market.
 
BTC looks to be back up to 8k... I made one decent financial move and that was sold 50% of my holdings at 17k... I am contemplating waiting for 10k or bust...
 
The daily "investment banking slimeball doesn't like crypto because its a threat to his business" internet FUD has become little more than guy banging a pot on his head with a wooden spoon. Their statements are pure self interest, they're playing an angle. And a lot of them own BTC on the DL.
 
Last edited:
If they don't fix the high cost and long wait times for cypto transactions, they are pretty much worthless as currencies and their "pretty to look at" value is zero. Maybe someone needs to make a crypto currency that is based on fractal patterns. At least you could print your coin as a poster and hang it on the wall.
 
Crytpo isn't going anywhere. Its universal use for drugs/illegal activities is far too convenient to ever disappear completely. Even if governments put individuals in jail for using crypto it will still be widespread. Look how well that worked on illegal drugs. I really don't understand how anyone can assume that the value will be zero anytime soon. I mean sure, eventually when all traces of existence reform into a single entity before another big bang at the center of the cosmos, it will presumably have a value of zero, but even after existence begins anew, we'll eventually evolve back to this current time where crypto just rolls with the flow.

Goldman Sachs has a motivation for releasing press releases such as these. They don't give out free advice if they think there's value in it. PR like this is meant to steer the market in an intended direction. Their must be more to how crypto is challenging the status quo investment world than appears at face value for GS to take such blatant shots at crypto in attempts to devalue it.
 
You don't believe a single word out of a Goldmann Sachs mouth, do you ?

They have fear, and they better have. The youth is anything but bank friendly, over time, banks will loose and something is gonna replace it, lets be part of that something.
 
Dead Parrot said:
If they don't fix the high cost and long wait times for cypto transactions, they are pretty much worthless as currencies and their "pretty to look at" value is zero. Maybe someone needs to make a crypto currency that is based on fractal patterns. At least you could print your coin as a poster and hang it on the wall.
Click to expand...

They have plenty of these already, few less and instant. Most major coins have their niche.
 
BitMaster said:
You don't believe a single word out of a Goldmann Sachs mouth, do you ?

They have fear, and they better have. The youth is anything but bank friendly, over time, banks will loose and something is gonna replace it, lets be part of that something.
Click to expand...

That actually brings up a good point that's kind of unrelated. I wonder what affect interest rates have on youth saving versus spending? I'm sure a lot of people on here can remember when having money in a saving account would net 5% or more, and actually be worthwhile. A traditional savings account right now might not even pay 1% interest, which basically means money is losing value sitting in the bank. That certainly isn't going to encourage people to want to save their money in a traditional sense, so in the long term they might be a lot less likely to uses banks at all if they found alternate methods to handle their money.
 
I'm glad something is challenging Banks and the stock market in general. It shows there is at least some demand for something different.

Whether we get something different in the end is hard to say. Crypto exchanges look and work an awful lot like stock exchanges (with lower fees). Crypto as a currency is quite a bit different but I feel for retail acceptance we'd still use a credit card - just instead of our balance being dollars it'd be BTC or ETH and it could convert traditional and crypto currencies at the time of purchase just like they do now when making international purchases.
 
Kdawg said:
"experts" heheheh. What qualifications do they have?

you know this is pure bullshit when they say this right after a crash.
Click to expand...

We live in a world where you no longer have to put any real effort forward to pump-and-dump. Just find an "expert" to throw some predictions out there, and let the media do the work for you.
 
Dead Parrot said:
If they don't fix the high cost and long wait times for cypto transactions, they are pretty much worthless as currencies and their "pretty to look at" value is zero. Maybe someone needs to make a crypto currency that is based on fractal patterns. At least you could print your coin as a poster and hang it on the wall.
Click to expand...

Mempool is tiny right now. With segwit and lightening incoming, the fixes are happening. Coinbase announced segwit compatibility by the end of the month. Lightening nodes are on the mainnet and are spreading fast. Transactions are very fast and cheap right now, but if it gets flooded again, the new technologies should be able to handle that if they are implemented.

From what I have been seeing and understand, anyway. I'm still a noob.
 
kju1 said:
Good riddance. I want a new video card...
Click to expand...

You sound like every other whiny baby online that refuses to do any math as it applies to the current situation. Are GPU prices high? Yup, scarcity breeds this sort of thing, welcome to free market.

Do you realize that instead of complaining and waiting for someone else to fix the problem you could have just bought the video card, mined for 60-90 days and had the GPU you wanted at a vastly discounted price after selling off the mining proceeds. After that time period stop mining and enjoy your now normally priced video card.

I have two 1080Ti's in my main rig and they didn't cost me a cent at this point. It's just like the age old debate of "should I upgrade now, or keep waiting for the next gen"... by all means keep siting on the sidelines waiting and complaining. There's a workable solution right now to your problem that would satisfy your requirement of getting a GPU at a normal/reduced price, it just requires a tiny bit more effort/patience to understand and implement.
 
I learned a LOT about currency in the history of the US right after the Revolutionary War. (I was a bit of a hobbyist about it a while back.) We had several currencies distributed by various banks, states, and other (not so trustworthy) entities, but after the Federal government established an official currency, all the rest entirely lost value very quickly. In addition, there were currencies that were just stamped coins supposedly made of the value of the metal they were to represent, but there were bad actors making them of fools gold and other false metals, so even the true silver and gold coins lost value and were replaced by the Federal currency.

I think in this case, as with historical currencies by lower authorities, if more credible authorities create cryptocurrencies, they will take over. So, of course, if the US Federal government creates on, it will replace everything else, but I doubt they will. It will likely begin with large banks or investment companies, like Goldman Sachs and Oppenheimer, will come out with some, and control the authentication system themselves, and then later states and the Federal government will catch up. However, some minor ones will likely survive due to those who wish to have anonymous transactions. General public investment in those small players, and even Bitcoin, will vanish in favor of trustworthy authority.

Fiat currency is based ENTIRELY on the trustworthyness of an authority, and the US dollar is so strong in the world because, despite how many people feel about the actions of said government, they are still the ultimate in trustworthy authority when it comes to money.
 
im no fan of the coin bubble & its disastrous effects upon the gaming hardware landscape...but regardless of my personal feelings on the matter, id trust fat cats from goldman as far as they can be thrown, especially pertaining an issue that directly threatens them.

just for clarification, that aint far
 
297.png
 
dgingeri said:
I learned a LOT about currency in the history of the US right after the Revolutionary War. (I was a bit of a hobbyist about it a while back.) We had several currencies distributed by various banks, states, and other (not so trustworthy) entities, but after the Federal government established an official currency, all the rest entirely lost value very quickly. In addition, there were currencies that were just stamped coins supposedly made of the value of the metal they were to represent, but there were bad actors making them of fools gold and other false metals, so even the true silver and gold coins lost value and were replaced by the Federal currency.

I think in this case, as with historical currencies by lower authorities, if more credible authorities create cryptocurrencies, they will take over. So, of course, if the US Federal government creates on, it will replace everything else, but I doubt they will. It will likely begin with large banks or investment companies, like Goldman Sachs and Oppenheimer, will come out with some, and control the authentication system themselves, and then later states and the Federal government will catch up. However, some minor ones will likely survive due to those who wish to have anonymous transactions. General public investment in those small players, and even Bitcoin, will vanish in favor of trustworthy authority.

Fiat currency is based ENTIRELY on the trustworthyness of an authority, and the US dollar is so strong in the world because, despite how many people feel about the actions of said government, they are still the ultimate in trustworthy authority when it comes to money.
Click to expand...

I imagine something like this happening. With the blockchain they would be able to track any and every single purchase you ever have made or make. Can't see the government not wanting that power.
 
bman212121 said:
That actually brings up a good point that's kind of unrelated. I wonder what affect interest rates have on youth saving versus spending? I'm sure a lot of people on here can remember when having money in a saving account would net 5% or more, and actually be worthwhile. A traditional savings account right now might not even pay 1% interest, which basically means money is losing value sitting in the bank. That certainly isn't going to encourage people to want to save their money in a traditional sense, so in the long term they might be a lot less likely to uses banks at all if they found alternate methods to handle their money.
Click to expand...
Young people are fucked. Like you said, not only is interest rock bottom low, but it's lower than the rate of inflation. So even if they save, they LOSE money. And that's so say nothing of their earnings to begin with. Earning 21k like a boss!
 
tetris42 said:
Young people are fucked. Like you said, not only is interest rock bottom low, but it's lower than the rate of inflation. So even if they save, they LOSE money. And that's so say nothing of their earnings to begin with. Earning 21k like a boss!
Click to expand...

You are assuming young people are saving money in the first place.
 
tetris42 said:
Young people are fucked. Like you said, not only is interest rock bottom low, but it's lower than the rate of inflation. So even if they save, they LOSE money. And that's so say nothing of their earnings to begin with. Earning 21k like a boss!
Click to expand...

Oh there's a lot more to it then just low wages, which is a big reason to be against unlimited immigration. We basically export dollars to prevent massive inflation. These dollars are then reincorporated into our country through foreigners buying real estate, housing, apartments, gas stations, hotels, etc etc. But housing is a big one. This drives up the price of housing, which boomers love, while pricing their kids out of the market entirely.

If you're looking for work though UPS in the western US just bumped up the starting pay of the warehouse entry level guys up to $15 an hour. That's to start as well. Go driver and you'll top out at $36 an hour. With real benefits, incredibly mind bogglingly good insurance, top out at 7 paid weeks off, and a pension.

Biggest problem with millennials I see is that a ton of them aren't getting married and having kids so they don't have the drive to work your ass off at night in a dirty dangerous warehouse filled with conveyor belts for years until you can go driver. As to why a ton of them aren't getting married is a whole 'nother story.
 
Dead Parrot said:
If they don't fix the high cost and long wait times for cypto transactions, they are pretty much worthless as currencies and their "pretty to look at" value is zero. Maybe someone needs to make a crypto currency that is based on fractal patterns. At least you could print your coin as a poster and hang it on the wall.
Click to expand...

That's a bitcoin problem. Bitcoin is not synonymous with crypto. This is actually something the article hits on indirectly. The majority of coins move on a daily basis more or less in lock step with Bitcoin. It is irrational behavior. What's the explanation? It could be that for many BTC = crypto. As that perception changes things should start moving in a more expected, random manner.

bman212121 said:
That actually brings up a good point that's kind of unrelated. I wonder what affect interest rates have on youth saving versus spending? I'm sure a lot of people on here can remember when having money in a saving account would net 5% or more, and actually be worthwhile. A traditional savings account right now might not even pay 1% interest, which basically means money is losing value sitting in the bank. That certainly isn't going to encourage people to want to save their money in a traditional sense, so in the long term they might be a lot less likely to uses banks at all if they found alternate methods to handle their money.
Click to expand...

This is getting OT, but I think interest rates are going to spike like they did in the 80s. They'v been so low for so long, less than the rate of inflation for a decade +. That' cannot last. The new tax code discourages home ownership by reducing the deductions. That and several other factors (stock market bubble bursting) will make interest rates rise.

Ur_Mom said:
Mempool is tiny right now. With segwit and lightening incoming, the fixes are happening. Coinbase announced segwit compatibility by the end of the month. Lightening nodes are on the mainnet and are spreading fast. Transactions are very fast and cheap right now, but if it gets flooded again, the new technologies should be able to handle that if they are implemented.

From what I have been seeing and understand, anyway. I'm still a noob.
Click to expand...

Those are band-aids but not real fixes. Bitcoin still will have a roughly 10 minute block time, which is a fundamental issue. From the very beginning, Bitcoin was not designed as a real time transactional system. It sucks at it. This is why the future for Bitcoin is cloudy, at best. There are multiple second and third generation cryptos that have it in spades over Bitcoin.
 
Goldman Sachs, one of the greatest stock manipulating companies out there. Stopped reading after it said GS.
 
oldmanbal said:
Crytpo isn't going anywhere. Its universal use for drugs/illegal activities is far too convenient to ever disappear completely. Even if governments put individuals in jail for using crypto it will still be widespread. Look how well that worked on illegal drugs. I really don't understand how anyone can assume that the value will be zero anytime soon. I mean sure, eventually when all traces of existence reform into a single entity before another big bang at the center of the cosmos, it will presumably have a value of zero, but even after existence begins anew, we'll eventually evolve back to this current time where crypto just rolls with the flow.

Goldman Sachs has a motivation for releasing press releases such as these. They don't give out free advice if they think there's value in it. PR like this is meant to steer the market in an intended direction. Their must be more to how crypto is challenging the status quo investment world than appears at face value for GS to take such blatant shots at crypto in attempts to devalue it.
Click to expand...


easy fix is tax the crap out of it and have the FED block any attempts at buying in even a crypto tax act that would tax crypto gains at say 80% would destroy it
 
Elios said:
easy fix is tax the crap out of it and have the FED block any attempts at buying in even a crypto tax act that would tax crypto gains at say 80% would destroy it
Click to expand...
Lol. Crypto ain’t going anywhere. It isn’t just bitcoin, ethereum, and litecoin bud. You really think the FED’s can truly track the privacy coins out there?
 
refraxion said:
Lol. Crypto ain’t going anywhere. It isn’t just bitcoin, ethereum, and litecoin bud. You really think the FED’s can truly track the privacy coins out there?
Click to expand...

They don't need to track them. You have to track them and report it when asked.

There are plenty of ways to make money breaking the law, crypto just sounds fancy.

If drugs get legalised the major use for blockchain is reduced to keeping track of your child sex slaves. Keeping the buyer n seller anonymous n shit.
 
Jadawin said:
Oh those recent price swings indicate a bubble? So... Dow Jones anyone?
Click to expand...

Well, XIV is a perfect example. It was (is, at least for the next week) a trading vehicle on short term inverse VIX futures volatility. In other words, for the past decade or so, free money. And it was ridiculously popular (~3000% gain in the past 6 years). People warned for years that this was a ticking bomb ready to explode and could take everything, and Monday after hours, the Armageddon scenario came out of nowhere , and poof, $3 billion of investors money instantly gone.

I have to agree with him with cryptocurrencies. Anything that seems like free money will be popular. But if you don't do your due diligence, it can cost you dearly.

Like with XIV, where one guy lost $4 million. He turned $36k into $2.5 million with it, and greed got the better of him. Bitcoin is going to be the same way.
 
idiomatic said:
They don't need to track them. You have to track them and report it when asked.

There are plenty of ways to make money breaking the law, crypto just sounds fancy.

If drugs get legalised the major use for blockchain is reduced to keeping track of your child sex slaves. Keeping the buyer n seller anonymous n shit.
Click to expand...

The point is: Have fun taxing crypto at 80%. If you don’t do your research don’t talk about crypto.
 
Just because we are in a speculative bubble does not mean current prices can’t increase for a handful of survivors,” Strongin said. “At the same time, it probably does mean that most, if not all, will never see their recent peaks again.”
Click to expand...

I think that's the takeaway. I agree with the first quote, only partially the second.

Some of these cryptos seem genuinely useful and seem like they really will be an asset for a long time even if that means they stabilize and just become more of a run of the mill investment option. Ether, for example, has like 500 tokens based off its ERC20 standards (rules? protocols?) so in the short term is is sort of the backbone of the cryptomarket and has value for that alone. For the future, a few very cool sounding projects could keep it around (and the useful offshoots). E.g. Augur, Walton, Hshare, Icon. Augur sounds like something fun I want to do right now (mass instant secure bankless prediction/betting markets). Stellar and/or Ripple show promise for reducing costs and speeding up international money movement. Monero or zCash offer something people will always want (true private anonymous value transfer). And Bitcoin seems to be the de facto "internet gold" for those in the market as an intermediary between all of these fiat currencies and cryptos. (Although ether is also pretty useful in that regard too...)

Some (two? three? 28?) of these things should survive and (maybe) prosper. The vast, vast majority will amount to nothing, just like Mr. Goldman Sachs sez. Although I don't think there will just be a culling and only a few will survive--I think there will just constantly be new, mostly valueless stuff with a few diamonds in the rough, all the time (sort of like the current smartphone app market), since the underlying systems are actually pretty cool.
 
Easy to shit on everyone else if you get billions of tax payer dollars when you crap the bed. I'll take my chances with "internet funny money" rather than you crooks.
 
Kdawg said:
"experts" heheheh. What qualifications do they have?

you know this is pure bullshit when they say this right after a crash.
Click to expand...

What qualification does Goldman have when it comes to crypto?
That's right, none.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top