Getting an A64 3000+, which core?

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D1sc1pl3 0f Mal1c3

Gawd
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Sep 19, 2004
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I'm going to upgrade my gaming PC (in sig) with a new mobo/cpu. The 3000+ is in the budget, so that's what I'm getting. Newegg has several chips on their site (results) with different cores (newcastle, winchester, clawhammer, etc). Which is best for gaming, and should I be concerned if the picture they give you is of the actual chip and not of the box it comes in? Perhaps a silly question, but it just struck me as odd that the Newcastle core was a pic of the box while the rest were a pic of the chip. Basically which of those chips is the best, and why? Thanks a lot! :D
 
Is it necessary to get such an expensive board? I'm trying to keep this in the 250 dollar range without getting sub-standard stuff, as I want this setup will carry me for a year or two, hopefully(getting a new vid card later this summer)... I'm also not too concerned wth getting s939, as that seems to be a cost not proportional to the performance increase.
 
D1sc1pl3 0f Mal1c3 said:
I'm also not too concerned wth getting s939, as that seems to be a cost not proportional to the performance increase.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of going s939 was to future-proof it more as s754 is on its way out already.
 
That argument gets dragged up over and over again. My take on it is get a s939 and upgrade your chip and motherboard asynchronously (and so more cheaply) for the next 4 or so years.

The answer as far as I'm concerned is a socket939 Winchester. Which speed to go for depends on how much you've got to spend. Why is it better? Slight revisions to the core were made, and it runs cooler.
 
if you're getting a socket 754, get the newcastle
if you're getting socket 939, get the winchester....altho i would recommend 3200+ on winchester since the 3000+ seems a bit gimped compared to the other chips.

To anyone who wants to upgrade to Athlon64, and leaves a computer (for the most part) alone after the build until they go around and build a whole new one, I'd say get 3400+ on s754....fast speed for cheap. Just my opinion.
 
Ehhh... Well Yes...

It is necessary to get a good MoBo. The Mobo influences all other parts in the computer Id rather get a2800+ and a better MoBo then a 3200+ and a bad MoBo.

Ohh and go s939 :)
 
Hmm, is there a way to do it under 300$? I'm torn between the new cpu/board combo and the 6800GT, and the lower price of the s745 stuff made it kind of appealing... Now I'm torn all over again : /
 
s754 is going to be straight Sempron while the 939 will be for A64's a FX chips. If you don't want to buy a new mobo when you buy your pext proc', get the 939. I did. Oh yeah....Winchester core.
 
tsuehpsyde said:
if you're getting a socket 754, get the newcastle
if you're getting socket 939, get the winchester....altho i would recommend 3200+ on winchester since the 3000+ seems a bit gimped compared to the other chips.
Click to expand...

How so? I'd like a detailed explanation of this. (note sig)
 
D1sc1pl3 0f Mal1c3 said:
Hmm, is there a way to do it under 300$? I'm torn between the new cpu/board combo and the 6800GT, and the lower price of the s745 stuff made it kind of appealing... Now I'm torn all over again : /
Click to expand...

In my most recent Maximum PC, ZipZoomFly.com listed the K8N Neo 2 and the Athlon 64 3000+ Winchester (S939) for $279.99 . Looked like a pretty good price to me.
 
Athlon 64 3000+ [939/Winchester]
ASUS A8V Deluxe
$156
$135+
$291

The reason I would get a Winchester is for their much better overclocking potential.
If you have the cash, get that MSI board Eclipse recommended.

edit -The same two items at Monarch Computer is even and coupke bucks cheaper and they will test the mobo & cpu together before they ship it you. You could also get a ABIT AV8 which is cheaper than the ASUS because they will flash it to the BIOS you need for winchesters for you.

edit # 2 - ZipZoomFly has a 3000+ Winchester and MSI Neo2 Platinum combo for $297. That would appear to me to be the best way to go.
If you really want to go cheap they have a 3000+ Newcastle and MSI Neo Platinum for $244.
 
Basically, a low-end s939 chip/platform will give you better performance (dual-channel RAM, more refined cores/revisions), cooler performance (low-power Winchester core), better overclocking, and a much better upgrade path. Whereas s754 dead-ends at the Athlon 64 3700+, s939 will be up to the 4200+ by the end of this year, with the first generation of dual-core CPUs working in the same motherboard.

Besides, the 3000+ Winchester is only $160 right now, not much more than the 754 chips at the moment. Plus, many will hit 3800+ speeds without much trouble.

You can get a cheaper 939 motherboard and stay well under $300. You only have to pay more if you want the best of the best (i.e. the Neo2 or other high-end boards).
 
The think is I am not interested nor do I have the money now or in the future to get the high-end gear (college >.<). I'm just in the market for an good gaming chip. It doesn't have to OC the best or function better with some arbitrary configuration yeilding a few percentage points of performance increase. Will I be satisfied if I get the s754 3000+ with Eclipse's MoBo (I'm not bent on any resolututions above 12x10 and max AA/AF, either. I want high settings and a some AA/AF, for a year or so to come)? I'm planning on getting a 6800GT or something this summer, when I get a job. Maybe after I get a steady jon or part-time while studying I can start being more selective with my purchases, but for now, I want bang for buck :D
 
actually, i would disagree. 939 is only the best value if you plan on upgrading your cpu more than once every 1-2 years.

and malice, seeing as i have the cpu one step above yours and the same board, i think i'm in a position to say that it won't let you down. that 9600xt will probably be the thing hold you back when you turn the quality up
and.. if need be, it's pretty much guarrenteed to oc to 3400+ speeds, if not beyond
 
my processor(see sig) works great for me, kinda sucks RE:no dual-channel, but if you're looking for a budget chip thats pretty snazzy for games, get what I got MSI K8N Neo and an Athlon64 2800+, although I do plan on upgrading to Nforce4, SLI, PCI-E, by probably next christmas.
 
I got a AMD64 3000+ s754 with nForce3 cause I wanted a cheap upgrade from an old 400fsb 2.2 p4 to hold me over for the next couple years until i can start all over.
 
You're not interested in much more than saving money so just go with the cheapest s939 setup you can afford. Do not go with a s754 unless you know you're going to be buying budget components for some time to come. Like I stated before, s754 will be for Sempron processors only. The s939 has a clear future for upgrading with 64's or FX's and it'll save you money.

Example: Buy a s939 mobo with a 64 2800+ or 3000+ for now. Later when the speeds get passed 4000+, you'll be able to upgrade the processor only, thus saving you money on a new board and or memory. You can also go to the FX line with the s939.

If you go s754, you'll have to sell your mobo and proc to upgrade to a faster cpu or buy a Sempron (just like buying a celeron as opposed to a P4.)

Just my 2 bits.

But as far as upgrading on the cheap.... looking at what you have now.... What's the point? You'll get a few FPS increase going to a new A64. Not really worth it. I would know. I went from 2700+ to a 64 3000+. I did it because I wanted (was dying to really) to spend money that I really didn't have. I just wanted to be the first in my circle with an A64. ;-)

Anybody remember what version of the A64 had a problem with SP2? I know it was an older chip but I don't remember which one.

Check this thread to show an available upgrade path for what ever you choose. You would probably find updated info on amd's site.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=794579
point of interest
--------------------------------------------------------------------
64-Bit 939Pin 90nm 512KB Cache (Winchester):
A64 4000+ 2.5Ghz (Q4 2004)
A64 4200+ 2.625Ghz (Q4 2004)
A64 4400+ 2.75Ghz (2005)
A64 4600+ 2.875Ghz (2005)
A64 4800+ 3.0Ghz (2005)
A64 5000+ 3.125Ghz (2006)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
It is ridiculous to go 939 though, and buy a cheapo board, whereas you could go 754 and get a nice board. If you have say, 250 dollars-ish, go 754, if you have enough to get a nice 939 board, go 939.
 
xyoufailmex said:
It is ridiculous to go 939 though, and buy a cheapo board, whereas you could go 754 and get a nice board. If you have say, 250 dollars-ish, go 754, if you have enough to get a nice 939 board, go 939.
Click to expand...

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-468&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-499&depa=1

This is what I am currently running @ around $300. If you don't want to spend the $300 on something that will last you a few years, go with the s754.

I think this horse is beat. Out!

Edit: I just noticed that one of your previous post had a complaint towards that exact setup listed above. If this is going to be the case, don't upgrade just yet. You'll end up wasting your money on crap you don't need right now anyway. A new vid card would probably do you more justice. Get a 6600gt or whatever that model was. It's around $200 but it will speed up your games considerably over your 9600xt. I currently have a 9500pro that needs to be dealt with. ;-)
 
Ok, some of the proc's newegg is selling do not include the heatsink and fan. Should I decide to nab one of those as opposed with one in the retail box, what HS/Fan should I get to go with it and does newegg carry them? Not too expensive, mind you... Also, I really appreciate all the support. Hopefully with all this upgrading and n00b-ish question-asking I will slowly learn to figure out these things myself -- I'm still new to all this, atm, but it is hella fun! :D
 
I think the retail processors are worth it, even if you junk the heatsink/fan, because you get a real warranty with them.
 
OK, what makes the two cheaper boards here worse than the platinum one? Is there such a huge difference to justify the extra 40-50 dollars? What does the platinum one afford that the others do not? Again, I'm not interested in the best OCing board, just one that will let me OC. It doesn't have to be the best.
 
the reason for the more expensive price tag is the nforce3 250 chipset, which allows much better ocing (at least my understanding). I would encourage you to get the Epox 9nda3J, or 9nda3+ they are the two best OCing athlon64 boards and are reasonably priced. You can also get a combo of the two at mwave much cheaper then newegg $245 for socket 939 3000+ and 9nda3j, with this same combo i get 2.65 ghz stable with stock cooler

And the above combo is by far the best you can get for the money....the epox has been achieving better OCs then the MSI neo2 plat. When I purchased mine I got the board from newegg and the processor from monarch computer, if any1 has a faster system at a cheaper cost feel free to advise differently..
 
My experience says avoid the Winchester core at all costs, but I'll be outvoted.

I'd buy the fastest Clawhammer or Newcastle core you can. The winchester is a mess for stability and reliability (in my experience, again).
 
So the platinum OC's best. I think I'll gravitate towards a cheaper board because I'm not currently interested in getting the best OC I can. I've never OC'd anything before, and I don't want to go all out based on the fact that I might want to in the future.


My final concern is that the Winchester 3000+ s939 is clocked at 1.8gHz. This is less than my current AthlonXP. Am I reading this right? There has to be something that sets the 64 above...
 
my suggestion is just upgrade your video card. you will see much better performance in gaming then upgrading mb and processor while still using that underpowered 9600xt. by upgrading to amd 64 you will definetly need a good psu and a better video card. psu/video card/ mb/proceesor/better ram well over $300. new video card and you will be happy until you REALLY upgrade.YOU WILL NEED A GOOD PSU FOR A 64 SYSTEM PERIOD.you didnt list it your psu in your sig. amd 64 need POWER!
 
I would, but I cannot find a 6800GT in my price range, and apparently it is advisable to spring for the GT instead of a vanilla 6800, so I was going to wait till later this year when I had the money. At this point, it is b/w the proc/mobo and a vanilla 6800.
 
6800 gt is is great card. 6800 with it unlocked is a very good bang for buck. if you go agp! when i uprgrade and i will 939 venice nf4 board with pci card. but low budget gaming Im ok. my 2 cents
 
Hmm. If I spring for a 6800 now and upgrade my processor and mobo later in the year, will I regret it, or would that be something that I would be satisfied with? Again, I don't need wicked awesome resolutions and full AA/AF, just 12x10 and medium AA/AF and high settings.
 
just so you know the epox 9nda3j is cheaper then either of the "cheaper" motherboards you linked to earlier. I think it is one of the cheapest socket 939 boards anyway, do yourself a favor and get it :) ($92 at Mwave, $102 at newegg - where i bought it).
 
There was a link to someone who soft modded an XFX 6800 to (almost) a 6800GT (unlocking pipelines and upping the frequencies) on the frontpage of [H] a day or two ago (depending on when you read this). That might be a way to go. It involved running some command line parameters through Powerstrip (or was it Rivatuner?) - I have no idea how much danger you'll be exposing your card to.
 
If you RAM sucks and does not overclock very much then you may want to go with the 3200+. The reason being, of course, that the 3200+ has a multi of 10X over the 3000+ that has a multi of only 9X.

I got the 3000+ and I have sucky RAM that is PC2700, but it DOES overclock to 3200. The problem is that it can't go any further then fsb of 255 or so. So I am getting an OC of about 2295mhz on the 3000+ but if I had the 3200+ I would have an OC of 2550mhz, without upgrading my RAM.

So if you have good ram go 3000+, if you have sucky RAM but want to overclock and don't mind spending more - go w/3200+
 
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