GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by FrgMstr, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. tungt88

    tungt88 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think most folks on this forum (myself included) would LOVE to have AMD swooping in with a "market leading GPU", but they are a few years behind on the R&D front to NVIDIA, as Vega showed (the mining craze pulled Radeon out of the fire, for now). Not going to happen overnight.

    This really "seems" like NVIDIA overreaching itself here, in regards to shutting out AMD from the "gaming video card" market. Heck, if NVIDIA had just said nothing and rolled on until releasing in Q4 2018, most of us would probably end up getting Turing/Ampere/whatever at that time (the rumor mills already had me somewhat resigned to that direction).
     
  2. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    The AIBs need Nvidia more than Nvidia needs the AIBs. The exclusive AIBs would be dead without Nvidia. EVGA can't survive without its GPU business, Galax can't, and so on. So they're definitely jumping on. For everyone else its a risk assessment situation. What is better for their financial situation. Go along with the bully that has 70% of the marketshare or risk pissing them off in favor of the company with only 30%. The answer is obvious. Business make decisions based on how it effects them financially. They can hate Nvidia and the program but they're going to go along with it because it makes sense financially.
     
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  3. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

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    It is heavy handed, Ill give you that. It reads to me like they're trying to put paid to this ROG stuff and try to better demark their own product. One ROG graphics card looks much like the others to me and probably most people. In terms of the marketing/packaging and brand identity. I don't see what they could do to make their own product more unique, other than take back the manufacturing or try to impose regulation on their selected partners. This looks to me like the latter

    I suspect the reason why nobody will push back is because all the manufacturers are probably pulling together strategy to meet this demand.
     
  4. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

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    True, and it's a shitty thing to do for sure. But also, I think the manufacturers are at least partly to blame for this situation themselves with branding the two different vendor products so closely. They should have made a clearer demarcation than just a number on a box. Just look at the packaging for the strix rx580 vs the 1080ti for example. It's just lazy
     
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  5. tungt88

    tungt88 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I should add that this (even more than the AMD angle, come to think of it, given that NVIDIA already doesn't take Radeon too seriously) also looks like a pre-emptive "shot across the bow" to Intel as well, with their plans for a discrete GPU (they will undoubtedly replace the Vega part of their "hybrid" with their own part at some point). That way, even if Intel bought out Radeon overnight from AMD, they couldn't gain serious traction in the gaming video card market (or other, more important markets), due to "gaming" being solidly in NVIDIA's purview. It's really interesting to see how this plays out: not just short-term, but long term (decade or so) down the road.

    Yep, more popcorn for all of us!
     
  6. Mugato

    Mugato Muh Feelz!

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    Thank you Kyle, very well written. This is a sad state of affairs, although not entirely surprising. Nvidia has had their boot on the throat of the market for a long time, I'll just leave this here.
    So true, there are anti compete clauses in many things I work with. Want a quote for a switch from X reseller? No problem, just don't try and get a competing quote from 2nd X reseller, the first contacted the manufacturer first and got a "discounted" rate, which means they are a "partner" now and there can only be one "partner" at a time. It stops the consumer from bidding it out to 5 different resellers and the price being driven down. I get it. How about a preferred partner with a software vendor? The software vendor directly can do the work, you ask for a quote from them, it comes in super high. You ask for a quote from a preferred partner that has all of the qualifications or more (they probably stole people from the software vendor) and could save you a ton. No compete bid because they signed up with the vendor as a "partner". It's rampant, some makes sense, some is frustrating.
     
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  7. Mugato

    Mugato Muh Feelz!

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    Intel is not worried about AMD, I can tell you that for fact. 98.5% of people have no idea what Spectre or Meltdown are, and it really won't affect them anyway. What's the attack surface? Super small, almost no risk. Even educated folks in the industry are saying, wait, the performance impact isn't worth it. Sure, it COULD be a problem, but really, it's a mess. Don't bother with it, swing at lower hanging fruit.
     
  8. tungt88

    tungt88 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Heh, I think you totally lost what I was trying to say there -- it has very little to do with AMD, but everything to do with NVIDIA and Intel.
     
  9. Ranger101

    Ranger101 [H]Lite

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    Major Kudos for this article. Well done Mr Bennet.
     
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  10. joyzbuzz

    joyzbuzz n00b

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    Nvidia has the same problem as Intel, no modular architecture ready for 7nm. The 7nm 'pipe cleaner' Vega Instinct card coming at the end of 2018 will be modular along with Zen 2. That's AMD's ace up the sleeve, the ability to manufacture their CPUs and GPUs on 7nm substantially cheaper than Intel and Nvidia with their monolithic chips.

    While 2019 is going to be an extremely bad year for Intel vs AMD, it won't be great for Nvidia either. AMD's 7nm Zen 2 based APUs are going to decimate Nvidia's OEM business, 7nm Threadripper and Vega 20 combo will rule the HEDT space while Zen 2 and 7nm Vega make substantial inroads in the consumer market.

    JHH is playing hardball now because he sees what's coming down the pike from AMD.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  11. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Man, you reached far enough to get a beer from the couch!

    [first wrench: AMD actually has to make enough parts to meet market demand!]
     
  12. 777

    777 Limp Gawd

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    Are you being serious? Since when are Nvidia, Asus, AMD, Gigabyte, EVGA, or XFX the government? Do you think non-disclosure agreements are 1st Amendment violations? You get A+ for comedy gold though between your comments in this thread so far and in the past Windows 10 threads.
     
  13. Syntax_Error

    Syntax_Error [H]Lite

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    "...AMD came to us and presented us with "this story." AMD shopped this story with other websites as well..."

    How very nice of them. Lets you know they truly care, LOL.
     
  14. Tony Ou

    Tony Ou SilverStone Tech Representative

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    Not the first time NVIDIA has done something similar like this. Years back when "SLI Certified" was a thing for retail PSUs, they asked PSU companies not to place rival certification logo (Crossfire Certified) on the same space as SLI Certified logo on retail boxes, website, and any other promotional medium. ATI (AMD's former GPU self) at the time didn't care if we had rival logos. As we had enough PSU models to spare then, it wasn't a big deal for us to allocate different PSUs for each certification program. So in some way, I guess it wasn't as bad as what they are trying to do now with GPP by requiring entire product line to be exclusive to them.
     
  15. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    I believe they did the same with motherboards for a short time following the death of nForce.
     
  16. aaronjb

    aaronjb Gawd

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    Kyle needs an editor. This was a poorly-written piece, from both English language and journalistic perspectives. It presents as quite juvenile in tone and delivery. least he alluded to the fact that is essentially an opinion piece.
     
  17. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Could you please be more specific so I could make it better next time? You just being general does nothing to help me make HardOCP better.
     
  18. Vizeroy

    Vizeroy n00b

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    Sapphire was an AMD partner for a long time, but too small to get Nvidia to allow them to sell GPUs from both manufacturers.
    XFX got the boot from Nvidia after they announced, they want to sell AMd cards as well.

    It even was reported here on HardOCP:

    https://www.hardocp.com/news/2010/01/09/gpu_news_from_ces


    Erm.. nope... exclusive game deals for consoles are very different.
    They hand over quite a bit of money to buy the exclusive release of a game for their specific console - not counting the games from studios, owned by the console maker.
    They even got rarer in the recent years.
    Square Enix has a long history of releasing Final Fantasy games exclusively for Sony consoles.
    That has changed in the recent years.
    The games are merely time limited exclusives now.

    Nintendo always tries to be innovative on how games are played in the first place. Not everything does work out (see WiiU and 3D functionality of the 3DS). Other details do work out - like the hybrid nature of the switch and the motion controls, first seen in the Wii.
    They also have *very* strong brands of their own - Mario Franchise, Zelda, Pokemon...
    They don't really need to buy exclusive game rights nowerdays. The difference in philosophy on how the games are played is the key selling point.
     
  19. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sounds like a desperate losing company. They should use money on R&D and compete instead of whining over that people buying the competition because their products stinks.

    Easier to due to cheap childish PR than to make products. :D
     
  20. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

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    Case in point. Look at these two GPU's, both part of the MSI GAMING X range.

    https://imgur.com/a/DwcLu

    The top one is a 1080ti, the bottom one an RX580. The story on the boxes is similar. Wouldn't you want a little uniqueness in your product if you were nvidia?

    edit:dammit, bloody IMG links won't work
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  21. NoxTek

    NoxTek The Geek Redneck

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    THIS is why I've called [H] my [H]ome for almost twenty years. From the Quake / Quack ATI debacle, to the Phantom console that turned out to be complete fakeware, to these current day issues... Kyle doesn't back away from a damn thing, and is always looking out for us - the consumers and enthusiasts.

    Rock on, brother!
     
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  22. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    I commend Mr Bennett's balls of steel, in what is likely to rub a few up the wrong way. I think in any kind of journalistic work integrity is what matters and to stand up for the consumer interest is major kudos. It is time corporate conduct and practice is made aware to the layman and these corporates take responsibility for their impropriety.
     
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  23. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    I’m honestly having a tough time figuring out why this is a big deal? If the GPP offers perks in exchange for brand alignment and is voluntary then so what? AMD and Intel can do the same thing if their products are viewed as valuable by the OEMs in their respective markets.

    I don’t think companies like Asus need promotion funds as they are quite flush with money and engineering talent so these concerns seem way overblown to me.
     
  24. Colonel_Blimp

    Colonel_Blimp n00b

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    Well, why not keep the existing, well known brand for AMD and create a new one for nVidia GPU's? No setup cost because nVidia will fund it as 'Marketing'. Trusted existing brands like ROG would stay AMD.
    If nVidia want their own brand they should pay for it all and not piggyback on the success of existing ones.
     
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  25. Krizby

    Krizby n00b

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    Looks like MSI and Gigabyte is already on board the GPP programs, as there were no GamingX or Aorus branding of Vega 56 or 64 video cards atm, only Asus has the ROG vega 56 and 64. No hard feelings here since those gaming brands are overpriced AF anyways. Looking at Steam hardware survey with Nvidia at 85.3% and AMD at 8.9% I say let Nvidia take the Gaming Branding already
     
  26. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

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    The problem is that this is perceived as "buying" the market from competition, if all OEMs and AIB's sign up it means no AMD cards can be sold under terms of agreement. It is monumentally wrong at every level, Intel did this to AMD when AMD had superior products and AMD lost multi billions in revenue and clients. I hope this is given the serious treatment it deserves. Asus and MSI deserve punishment for colluding to this.
     
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  27. magoo

    magoo [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Look what happened to XFX.......

    They declined to stop selling AMD, they no longer offer nvidia products.

    Don't think it did hurt their bottom line.

    That and XFX was a pretty big dealer until nvidia dumped them.
     
  28. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    MSI doesn't need to spend extra to make the 1080ti different.

    it works as intended it's not broken so why rock the boat?

    just because, nvidia has it's panties in a twist, is not a good reason.
     
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  29. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    This was quite enlightening. I want even aware of this editorial until I was checking my Google feed, saw an Nvidia thing on Forbes ,and the[H] was mentioned.

    Will be interesting to see how Nvidia teartr today
     
  30. chithanh

    chithanh Gawd

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    Others in this thread explained already, so I will keep it brief: One does not simply create a gaming brand. It takes years of effort and millions expended for promoting it. Not participating in GPP would mean a serious disadvantage compared to vendors who do. Ergo AMD is pushed out and consumer choice is reduced.
    Microsoft has been hit by antitrust action for their monopoly abuse in the past. Those old enough to remember DR-DOS may recall how Microsoft made bogus warning appear in Windows 3.1 when it detected DR-DOS running. Then the browser wars and Microsoft licensing fees per PC sold, regardless of whether it had Windows installed or not. Latest shenanigans was patent extortion from Android manufacturers, until the Chinese government stepped in and put an end to it (indirectly by forcing reveal and enabling public review).
     
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  31. Sith'ari

    Sith'ari Gawd

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    1) If they can make larger profits with a new deal (GPP) compared to the older status, why not creating another brand-name as a side-effect? I can't see anything stopping them.
    2) Yet, what is MS marketshare at the current OS market? 80-90% . While NVidia is what ?... 60-70% (*my estimations, not sure if they are accurate)
    EDIT: And what about the NForce chipsets that i mentioned before? Wasn't the project abandoned because of the other companies that wanted to stop NVidia from expanding? So, exactly why NVidia not to apply similar practices?:confused:
     
  32. jfreund

    jfreund Gawd

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    I'm no lawyer, but given the results of similar actions from other companies, there may be grounds for a preliminary injunction to prevent GPP from going forward until things are hashed out in court.
     
  33. Zion Halcyon

    Zion Halcyon 2[H]4U

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    Thank you for the article, Kyle. I can't help but wonder if this may be part of the reason ASRock it's going to get into the video card business business as a supplier of AMD cards. AMD potentially trying to head off damage they might suffer by losing some of the other vendors who have signed this agreement with Nvidia?
     
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  34. chithanh

    chithanh Gawd

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    If having to expend years of effort and millions of marketing money in order to continue selling AMD products, or alternatively becoming uncompetitive in 70% of their market isn't stopping them, then I don't know what is.

    Microsoft's current actions like Windows 10 S mode for new installs, or resetting your default web browser to Edge on every big update do not get much scrutiny nowadays. Because Microsoft no longer has a dominating position in the market for personal computing devices after smartphones disrupted PCs.

    There was a lawsuit between Intel and NVidia about exactly that.
     
  35. griff30

    griff30 I Lower the Boom!

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    I saw this pop up on Forbes of all places.

    Kyle, I have been a member here since the Frag-tape days and it's insider reporting like this that makes me feel like I am part of something bigger than a Website or forum.

    You and your lawyers have balls of solid Adamantium.
    I am really looking forward to the next reviews of Nvidia products.
    I just hope you don't get "Seth Riched"
     
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  36. ssnyder28

    ssnyder28 2[H]4U

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    Articles like this are what makes me a proud supporter of the [H]
     
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  37. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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  38. GameHard6

    GameHard6 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I wonder if this will be enough to develop partnerships between NVIDIA's competition. The collective of all the competition should be enough to start a real threat to NVIDIA.
     
  39. Shotglass01

    Shotglass01 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nope! Nope, nope, nope, nope nope, nope, nope! It doesn't matter who is profiting or even who is providing the GPU. As an example, my AIB company, SuperBBQ, makes the Hotgrill line of cards. Both feature Nv and AMD GPU's. But it's my company. I spent the money to get it going, I also spent, at least some, of my dollars getting the brand going. I may have had help with discounts and marketing materials from Nv, but it's my company. The mining craze has absolutely nothing to do with this. It's the market today. If Nv wants to ride this gravy train, drop the AIB's and make their own damn cards. Then they can do with whatever the hell they want. But don't gag my company that sells your cards. I pushed the Hotgrill line, I hired the employees, I pay rent on my space, I deal with the RMA's and I have to be sure I have stock to sell. The only way I see this is as a bullshit move by Nv. It's their GPU, but now it's in my card branded as the Hotgrill. And if they cut off my GPU supply then it's my fault for basing my company on the laurels of another. See Netscape ft. BFG.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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