GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

The longer it takes Nvidia to release a statement, the more truth this has, imo.

They have such a huge market share, all they need to do is keep releasing good products. I am a long time Nvidia supporter, but I kinda hope this bites them in the ass.
So very tired of the "fuck everyone" for the maximum profit mentality some companies have.
 
razor1 said:
Now if things go side ways like nV starts to limit which partners get what allocation of GPU's and cards, yeah that is bad, does this type of program do that, I would need to see the contract, but what Kyle has written it certainly looks it can be used in that way, but we can't say for sure at this point.
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GPP companies getting priority access to chips could very much result in that. Especially around launch. It could lead to situations where non-GPP companies get screwed out of launch allocation because Nvidia met the demands of all GPP companies first and there was nothing left for anyone else. For AIBs its less of a concern, but for OEMs it could be a pretty big deal.
 
Derangel said:
GPP companies getting priority access to chips could very much result in that. Especially around launch. It could lead to situations where non-GPP companies get screwed out of launch allocation because Nvidia met the demands of all GPP companies first and there was nothing left for anyone else. For AIBs its less of a concern, but for OEMs it could be a pretty big deal.
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They do that any ways, right now, Tier 1 AIB's and OEM's get cards and chips first. They also get more supply of cards and gpus too. This is normal in business.

There was no program to speak of before, it was just normal.

And you got this wrong, if Kyle read the between the lines correctly, it hurts AIB"s much more. because AIB's don't have the flexibility or as much money to make another line of products and market those lines separately.

OEM's for systems already do this, AMD and Intel systems are branded differently. At least in Dell/alienware. HP have their different model numbers. Lenovo not too familiar with them.
 
Derangel said:
There is a big difference between a mutual agreement to provide certain software with computers or signing a purchase agreement with a company and being essentially blackmailed. This is like what Intel did years back. Nvidia is using their leverage over the dedicated GPU market to bully and blackmail AIBs and OEMs into agreeing with their terms. If companies do not comply they lose out on a lot of stuff, including all that marketing funds and priority access to chips. Imagine a situation where Nvidia tells a non-GPP company "Sorry, we don't have enough product for you this round, you will have to wait until the next shipment, but in the next shipment you will be in the back of the line behind all of our GPP members".
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I'm sorry, I read the article twice now and I don't see the part where nvidia is blackmailing its partners.
 
FearTheCow said:
I choose to believe the [H], I can't remember a single time they have been wrong, whether it affected them negatively or not.
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I'm not saying their wrong, I am saying the same thing they are, need more info, but as it stands it looks shady.
 
I bought my last 1080Ti from Asus because Kyle tested it and said it's good.

No test from Kyle, no purchase, it's that simple.

AMD GPU...Go go go :) they need a kick in their ass, Hard|OCP like
 
razor1 said:
OEM's are in the same boat man, it doesn't force OEM's not to use other's products, they just have to distinguish them differently.
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OK, so take Dell for example, how does forcing Alienware becoming exclusively nVidia impact them and their gaming PC business? They have to start an entirely new line with new chassis for AMD or not participate?
 
Derangel said:
Read the "benefits" of joining GPP. Then imagine companies not getting ANY of those if they don't join.
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Thats not blackmail man, to give something when a partner joins a program is not blackmail. What Intel did was totally different.

Intel forced Dell , Toshiba and Hitachi into exclusively by giving them large sums of cash based on their use of competitors products as a whole. I don't see that here, at least not yet. I don't see why an AIB or OEM will go into such an arrangement if it was so.
 
Chimpee said:
I agree that Nvidia is screwing with AMD by limiting their exposure to AIB or OEM, but any 1st amendment violation always involves the government and another entity. What Nvidia is doing could be an anti-trust issue, and it will be easier for the Court to accept that is an anti-trust issue rather than a 1st amendment issue.
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Marketing is generally protected under the 1st Amendment though government has a lot of power to restrict it compared to other types of speech because of consumer implications. I don't see how nVidia has more power to restrict the marketing rights of AMD than government. There's no way nVidia could have an enforceable agreement that says GPP members can't call an AMD gaming GPU part a gaming part nor use AMD marketing for such parts.
 
ND40oz said:
OK, so take Dell for example, how does forcing Alienware becoming exclusively nVidia impact them and their gaming PC business? They have to start an entirely new line with new chassis for AMD or not participate?
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Alienware has two brands within its lines one for AMD based one for Intel based. Ok take an Intel based one and make a "hyper gaming" model *this is a new brand within the intel brand of Alienwares* with nV cards, it fills the GPP requirements while still selling other products.
 
razor1 said:
Alienware has two brands within its lines one for AMD based one for Intel based. Ok take an Intel based one and make a "hyper gaming" model *this is a new brand within the intel brand of Alienwares* with nV cards, it fills the GPP requirements while still selling other products.
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Alienware is a gaming brand, so no AMD.
 
razor1 said:
Alienware has two brands within its lines one for AMD based one for Intel based. Ok take an Intel based one and make a "hyper gaming" model *this is a new brand within the intel brand of Alienwares* with nV cards, it fills the GPP requirements while still selling other products.
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That's asinine, the whole point in Alienware is you can go to their website, pick the computer you like and pick the components you like including the graphics card. Limiting models to only one brand of video card is taking away one of the biggest choices a buyer makes when purchasing a gaming PC.
 
FearTheCow said:
Alienware is a gaming brand, so no AMD.
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Who says so, the GPP doesn't say that, it doesn't force a company to not use exsisting brand for other products. They just want their products to be separate from the competitions.

So make two seperate lines for Alienware gaming, one for AMD cards and one for nV cards simple.
 
ND40oz said:
That's asinine, the whole point in Alienware is you can go to their website, pick the computer you like and pick the components you like including the graphics card. Limiting models to only one brand of video card is taking away one of the biggest choices a buyer makes when purchasing a gaming PC.
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That is what its asking for, nV wants their cards to be apart from AMD's. They are trying to make AMD's card irrelevant to buyers in more ways than one. Not just the merits of the card, marketing also. And that is why this isn't like what Intel did, what Intel did was direct, you can't sell AMD products otherwise, we cane you.

This doesn't mean you can't get thread ripper with an nV card. You just can't get the same named system with either AMD or nV card, that is it.
 
razor1 said:
Alienware has two brands within its lines one for AMD based one for Intel based. Ok take an Intel based one and make a "hyper gaming" model *this is a new brand within the intel brand of Alienwares* with nV cards, it fills the GPP requirements while still selling other products.
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Kyle used the example of Asus ROG. That's a pretty broad brand overview (ROG is Asus's singular branding for gaming if I am correct), I would consider Dell Alienware to be alike in that manner, much more than a simple product line like the Threadripper or Intel counterpart Area 51 prebuilt. If it's stuff like preventing AMD GPUs in Area 51, that's not the biggest deal in the world. (At first look) But cutting off AMD from the entire ROG branding? Thats really serious.
 
razor1 said:
Thats not blackmail man, to give something when a partner joins a program is not blackmail. What Intel did was totally different.

Intel forced Dell , Toshiba and Hitachi into exclusively by giving them large sums of cash based on their use of competitors products as a whole. I don't see that here, at least not yet. I don't see why an AIB or OEM will go into such an arrangement if it was so.
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You should read the settlement against Intel. There is one big point in the settlement "
  • retaliating against computer makers if they do business with non-Intel suppliers by withholding benefits from them."
GPP could very well fall under that. And lets not ignore the mention of Marketing Development Funds in GPP. Unless I'm misunderstanding things MDF is Nvidia directly giving OEMs and AIBs money.
 
razor1 said:
Who says so, the GPP doesn't say that, it doesn't force a company to not use exsisting brand for other products. They just want their products to be separate from the competitions.

So make two seperate lines for Alienware gaming, one for AMD cards and one for nV cards simple.
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and THIS is exactly what Kyle means by limiting choices. GPP forces you to make dedicated prod lines, two or more, so you have less ressources left for actual models and choices if you need 2 sets of everything, BS, either A or B, but no Ab or Ba...no no.
 
Derangel said:
Read the "benefits" of joining GPP. Then imagine companies not getting ANY of those if they don't join.
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Do they have those benefits now? If they do and those are removed by not switching to or entering the new program then there's a problem.
 
I heard through the grapevine that all these companies like Asus, Gigabyte & MSI are all the same company. I heard that in the beginning there was one main company and due to monopoly laws in the United States in order to sell, they had to split the company up into smaller companies, listed above, the catch was that they were split up and told to compete against one another in the United States.
 
razor1 said:
That is what its asking for, nV wants their cards to be apart from AMD's. They are trying to make AMD's card irrelevant to buyers in more ways than one. Not just the merits of the card, marketing also. And that is why this isn't like what Intel did, what Intel did was direct, you can't sell AMD products otherwise, we cane you.
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And this is exactly the point of the article. It makes things more difficult for both the AIB/OEM and the consumer. There's no reason a consumer should have to go to a different sub-brand of a company to purchase a different GPU. Could you imagine if Samsung tried pulling this with their SSDs and said they have to be the only storage vendor made available for a gaming product line?
 
SighTurtle said:
Kyle used the example of Asus ROG. That's a pretty broad brand overview (ROG is Asus's singular branding for gaming if I am correct), I would consider Dell Alienware to be alike in that manner, much more than a simple product line like the Threadripper or Intel counterpart Area 51 prebuilt. If it's stuff like preventing AMD GPUs in Area 51, that's not the biggest deal in the world. (At first look) But cutting off AMD from the entire ROG branding? Thats really serious.
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Yeah this is trying to get rid of any marketing advantage for AMD products with current branding of AIB and OEM products as a whole. That is not anti trust.


Derangel said:
You should read the settlement against Intel. There is one big point in the settlement "
  • retaliating against computer makers if they do business with non-Intel suppliers by withholding benefits from them."
GPP could very well fall under that. And lets not ignore the mention of Marketing Development Funds in GPP. Unless I'm misunderstanding things MDF is Nvidia directly giving OEMs and AIBs money.
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We don't know that right now. You and others are assuming it will be used for this. I don't see how any AIB or OEM would let that slide. Not only that, All major OEM's were under Intel's thumb, felt the hurt of not going to AMD back in the day. Dell especially wanted to go with AMD because they were losing marketshare but Intel forced them to stick with Intel.
 
ND40oz said:
And this is exactly the point of the article. It makes things more difficult for both the AIB/OEM and the consumer. There's no reason a consumer should have to go to a different sub-brand of a company to purchase a different GPU. Could you imagine if Samsung tried pulling this with their SSDs and said they have to be the only storage vendor made available for a gaming product line?
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Yes having different marketing or asking a partner to have different marketing or telling if you want to be in this partner program, we want separate marketing for our products, is not anti trust.

If they say you are in this program, you can no longer sell the competitors products in any of your lines or have to limit the total amount of competitor's products, that is anti trust, that is what Intel did.
 
Popped Kyle's Article on Yahoo's AMD and NVDA message boards - it's a hit!
 
ND40oz said:
There's no reason a consumer should have to go to a different sub-brand of a company to purchase a different GPU.
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I'm not seeing how this makes any difference at all. Do you try and find Aorus or ROG on Newegg when looking for an RX570 or GTX1070? I'd just be looking for the RX570 or GTX1070, and I don't care what other silly names the AIB slaps on it. About the only name of any significance is EVGA, and only for their support.
 
I haven't read all 5+ pages of responses, but...

This doesn't sound all that sinister to me.

Yeah, it's not a great deal. And you won't have ROG branded nVidia cards ~and~ ROG branded AMD cards.

But it doesn't stop Asus from having ROG branded nVidia cards ~and~ Strix branded AMD cards? (just a for-instance).

I can understand nVidia doesn't want it's cards branded the same as the competition, and that I actually think makes some sense.

The rest of it, sounded like most of it was wrapped up with brand recognition. Doesn't sound like it's a big hurdle to get over, but maybe I'm missing part of it.
 
razor1 said:
Yes having different marketing or asking a partner to have different marketing or telling if you want to be in this partner program, we want separate marketing for our products, is not anti trust.

If they say you are in this program, you can no longer sell the competitors products in any of your lines or have to limit the total amount of competitor's products, that is anti trust, that is what Intel did.
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I've never mentioned antitrust at all, just that this is bad for consumers and the AIB/OEMs. But if you think

it will lose the benefits of GPP which include: high-effort engineering engagements -- early tech engagement -- launch partner status -- game bundling -- sales rebate programs -- social media and PR support -- marketing reports -- Marketing Development Funds (MDF).
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is not coercion, than we're not going to see eye to eye on this.
 
ND40oz said:
Is not coercion, than we're not going to see eye to eye on this.
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This shit...

They're not forcing anything. They've literally said that they'll sell GPUs to AIBs who do not participate, and those AIBs that are willing to work with them on branding, they're willing to go the extra mile to support.
 
Brian_B said:
I haven't read all 5+ pages of responses, but...

This doesn't sound all that sinister to me.

Yeah, it's not a great deal. And you won't have ROG branded nVidia cards ~and~ ROG branded AMD cards.

But it doesn't stop Asus from having ROG branded nVidia cards ~and~ Strix branded AMD cards? (just a for-instance).

I can understand nVidia doesn't want it's cards branded the same as the competition, and that I actually think makes some sense.

The rest of it, sounded like most of it was wrapped up with brand recognition. Doesn't sound like it's a big hurdle to get over, but maybe I'm missing part of it.
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People already associate Geforce with NVIDIA, so when someone buys an Asus ROG Geforce whatever, they know what they're getting. Asus has spent time and money developing the ROG brand and if you look at their product lineup the vast majority fall under that ROG Strix category. This basically seems like NVIDIA trying to strongarm them into shoving AMD products into the "other" category. NVIDIA shouldn't have any control over what brands/names those companies use if they've spent time/money developing the name recognition that goes along with them.
 
SimianRob said:
People already associate Geforce with NVIDIA, so when someone buys an Asus ROG Geforce whatever, they know what they're getting. Asus has spent time and money developing the ROG brand and if you look at their product lineup the vast majority fall under that ROG Strix category. This basically seems like NVIDIA trying to strongarm them into shoving AMD products into the "other" category. NVIDIA shouldn't have any control over what brands/names those companies use if they've spent time/money developing the name recognition that goes along with them.
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And they don't 'have a say'. They're offering benefits to those that are willing to participate- if ASUS wants to keep ROG brand agnostic, they can!
 
ND40oz said:
I've never mentioned antitrust at all, just that this is bad for consumers and the AIB/OEMs. But if you think



is not coercion, than we're not going to see eye to eye on this.
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That is not coercion The company needs to be part of the program to get the benefits of the program, they just need a separate line for those specific nV products. If a company decides not to be part of that program, oh well, they don't get those extras.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I'm not seeing how this makes any difference at all. Do you try and find Aorus or ROG on Newegg when looking for an RX570 or GTX1070? I'd just be looking for the RX570 or GTX1070, and I don't care what other silly names the AIB slaps on it. About the only name of any significance is EVGA, and only for their support.
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I'm specifically talking about Dell and their gaming brand Alienware in that post since I was talking OEMs. If you want a gaming PC from Dell, I go to their website, click the products drop down, highlight gaming and Alienware is my first choice. If Alienware is now exclusively nVidia, buyers are missing choices.
 
heatlesssun said:
There's no way nVidia could have an enforceable agreement that says GPP members can't call an AMD gaming GPU part a gaming part nor use AMD marketing for such parts.
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But Kyle and others spelled it out for you. NVidia could simply retaliate against those companies by giving them lower priority in allocating products and engineering resources.

razor1 said:
Dell especially wanted to go with AMD because they were losing marketshare but Intel forced them to stick with Intel.
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Not forced. Bought. Intel CEO Otellini called Michael Dell "the best friend money can buy" back then.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
And they don't 'have a say'. They're offering benefits to those that are willing to participate- if ASUS wants to keep ROG brand agnostic, they can!
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Let's be real here though, those benefits could leave the vendors that don't participate in a serious disadvantage. It might come to a point where they really don't have the option of not participating if they want to remain competitive. This program really isn't great if we want the GPU market to have any competition going forward, it's already in a pretty rough spot as we speak.
 
ND40oz said:
I'm specifically talking about Dell and their gaming brand Alienware in that post since I was talking OEMs. If you want a gaming PC from Dell, I go to their website, click the products drop down, highlight gaming and Alienware is my first choice. If Alienware is now exclusively nVidia, buyers are missing choices.
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Dell Alienware Area 51 is their Intel line up, , Area 51 thread ripper is their thread ripper AMD line up

Two separate lines, why did Dell do this? Well differentiation of products. Simple, this is what nV wants with their GPU's.
 
razor1 said:
That is not coercion The company needs to be part of the program to get the benefits of the program. If a company decides not to be part of that program, oh well, they don't get those extras.
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Yeah, hey Dell, we're going to need you to have Alienware dump AMD GPUs and you get the benefits of the program. It's OK, you just need a new brand that isn't a gaming one and put your AMD GPUs under that one. It'll be great all around.

Oh you don't want to do that, we'll let you know when we have some GPUs available to ship your way.
 
ND40oz said:
I'm specifically talking about Dell and their gaming brand Alienware in that post since I was talking OEMs. If you want a gaming PC from Dell, I go to their website, click the products drop down, highlight gaming and Alienware is my first choice. If Alienware is now exclusively nVidia, buyers are missing choices.
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Then they make Alienware Red and Alienware Green. Whoop.

SimianRob said:
Let's be real here though, those benefits could leave the vendors that don't participate in a serious disadvantage. It might come to a point where they really don't have the option of not participating if they want to remain competitive. This program really isn't great if we want the GPU market to have any competition going forward, it's already in a pretty rough spot as we speak.
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Sure! And Nvidia could lose their business as well. This works both ways- can Nvidia afford for ASUS to give them the finger?
 
razor1 said:
Dell Alienware Area 51 is their Intel line up, , Area 51 thread ripper is their thread ripper AMD line up
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Come on man, we're talking GPUs, I can go pick an Aurora R7 and choose an nVIdia or AMD card.
 
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