Gaming / Workstation build

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styx0r

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
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Let me preface this by saying I'm interested in minimum stable FPS, in excess of 120fps, in all situations, on the source engine. I realize this is excessive for most people - I just want no slowdown / jitter in any situation. The difference between 2.8ghz and 3.8ghz on my current i7-930 provides a noticeable improvement in gameplay consistency, but I'd like to improve on that even more.

I realize that the source engine is often CPU limited. I will always sacrifice graphics quality for speed and FPS consistency in configs.

Current config:

i7-930 @ 3.8ghz
16GB DDR3 1600 (probably high CAS latency)
Gigabyte x58 UD5
Thermaltake 850watt PSU (over 6 years old, can't stably run dual GPUs, due to rail limitations)
.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

Gaming, mainly on the source engine. I also use this machine for Sketchup, Photoshop, heavy web browsing (3x 1920x1080 displays), and occasional video editing. Think heavy multitasker, with occasional VMs.

I'm mainly interested in advice about ways to maximize the consistency of the gaming experience. - i.e. will faster RAM actually net me an improvement in microstutter between frames, during highspeed FPS maneuvers.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

I would like to spend $1000 or less.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.


Eugene, Oregon. No microcenter near by.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

Replace CPU, RAM, Motherboard, and power supply, and nothing else.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

Corsair Obsidian 550D
Corsair H100
Gigabyte 670 (I could swap this for dual 290X, which are mining in another machine, but want to avoid FPS inconsistency)
Benq xl2420T
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD
Bluray Drive

6) Will you be overclocking?

Yes. I'm assuming i7-4770k, to whatever the chip comfortably hits - 4.6?

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

1920x1080, 24in

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

In the next 2 weeks.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.


SLI/Crossfire support would be nice, but not mandatory. I do not need bluetooth, firewire, onboard video, wifi, etc. I would like reliable electrical components, and stable overclocking, given reasonable settings.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

Win 8.1 x64



In summary, this is not an upgrade of necessity, but a luxury upgrade. I'm looking for the best possible gameplay on an old engine, and looking forward to the extra CPU power in everyday tasks. Please weigh in on higher speed RAM, and PSU suggestions should accommodate the possibility of a 2 card crossfire or SLI setup.


Thanks for your time! :)
 
Faster RAM won't actually net you any sort of real world improvement that would justify their higher costs.

As for your PSU, what Thermaltake 850W PSU do you have?
 
I've heard many people say this about faster RAM, and I've seen benchmarks demonstrating the diminishing FPS returns.

However, lower CAS latency at higher clockspeeds is faster, by definition. I know it won't increase max FPS, but it might reduce per-frame latency.

I realize it's common to dismiss RAM faster than 1333/1600 as 'unnecessary' - are you suggesting its only application is in benchmark chasing?



It's a thermaltake 850 toughpower: http://support.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1432&ID=1509
 
I'm guessing this is for CS:GO?

If it is you can try putting this command into your launch options
"-threads 8" without quotes

With your current setup you should be exceeding 120fps minimum.

In addition to the new parts, you should consider lightboosting your monitor if you haven't already
 
styx0r said:
I've heard many people say this about faster RAM, and I've seen benchmarks demonstrating the diminishing FPS returns.

However, lower CAS latency at higher clockspeeds is faster, by definition. I know it won't increase max FPS, but it might reduce per-frame latency.

I realize it's common to dismiss RAM faster than 1333/1600 as 'unnecessary' - are you suggesting its only application is in benchmark chasing?
Click to expand...
Its main application is indeed benchmark chasing. There are a handful of other situations where the faster RAM may help but none of those situations apply to your specific situation.

Now some people have said that they feel a "smoothness" with faster RAM. However, none of those people have ever provided actual evidence of that "smoothness" nor have shown that it isn't a placebo effect.

AFAIK, there hasn't been any conclusive review or data showing that faster RAM and/or lower latency RAM will reduce per-frame latency by a noticeable amount.
styx0r said:
It's a thermaltake 850 toughpower: http://support.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1432&ID=1509
Click to expand...
Have you actually tried that PSU with multiple GPUs before?
 
Yes, I've tried the PSU with multiple GPUs, and it will shutdown under full load. I'm using the appropriate PCI-E connectors, no hacked molex nonsense.

Single GPU, + OC'd i7-930 will pass 8hrs of OCCT PSU test.
Dual GPU will crash in under 10 minutes. I have tried a number of GPUs, fyi.

It's a 6 year old PSU, which has been on almost constantly since purchasing.


Also, I'm continuing to research the memory speed debate. The 'smoothness' you mention seems to be the frame latency, and in CPU-bound games, faster RAM appears to have a noticable effect.

In GPU bound games, expensive RAM does practically nothing, which makes sense - the CPU side of things isn't being limited by CPU -> RAM, RAM -> CPU speed.

See attached article if you're interested:


I appreciate the discussion of a seemingly beaten to death topic. (RAM speed) I've been building machines for ten years, and have always opted for standard speed RAM. Even though I understand the basics of RAM timings, clockspeed, and multi-channel bandwidth, I've always dismissed them as relatively unimportant, so I wanted to re-explore this subject to be sure I'm making the correct assumptions.
 
Suprfire said:
I'm guessing this is for CS:GO?

If it is you can try putting this command into your launch options
"-threads 8" without quotes

With your current setup you should be exceeding 120fps minimum.

In addition to the new parts, you should consider lightboosting your monitor if you haven't already
Click to expand...

I'm achieving 240fps under most conditions (except complex scenes / fast action, when high sustained FPS is most important). Again, I realize this is not a reasonable / normal gaming request, but I definitely notice when FPS drops below 120 @ 120hz, and I'd like to eliminate those dips in Source entirely, if possible.

I play CS:GO and TF2.
 
styx0r said:
Yes, I've tried the PSU with multiple GPUs, and it will shutdown under full load. I'm using the appropriate PCI-E connectors, no hacked molex nonsense.

Single GPU, + OC'd i7-930 will pass 8hrs of OCCT PSU test.
Dual GPU will crash in under 10 minutes. I have tried a number of GPUs, fyi.

It's a 6 year old PSU, which has been on almost constantly since purchasing.
Click to expand...
Hmm...you might have just gotten a defective PSU as it shouldn't be doing that. Either way, time for a new PSU. I recommend these PSUs:
$155 - Seasonic X750 Gold 750W Modular PSU
$150 - Corsair AX760 760W Modular PSU
styx0r said:
Also, I'm continuing to research the memory speed debate. The 'smoothness' you mention seems to be the frame latency, and in CPU-bound games, faster RAM appears to have a noticable effect.

In GPU bound games, expensive RAM does practically nothing, which makes sense - the CPU side of things isn't being limited by CPU -> RAM, RAM -> CPU speed.

See attached article if you're interested:
Click to expand...
I don't like to do this (attacking the source) but I really wouldn't take anything from Tom's as a serious source due to sloppy testing methods and reporting. Then again, even in the Tom's article, they state that in the one game where there was a difference, it still didn't mater that much.

styx0r said:
I appreciate the discussion of a seemingly beaten to death topic. (RAM speed) I've been building machines for ten years, and have always opted for standard speed RAM. Even though I understand the basics of RAM timings, clockspeed, and multi-channel bandwidth, I've always dismissed them as relatively unimportant, so I wanted to re-explore this subject to be sure I'm making the correct assumptions.
Click to expand...
Still the correct assumption: No point in getting higher speed and/or lower latency RAM unless they're cheaper or equal to lower speed/higher latency RAM for systems with a dedicated GPU.

It's a different case altogether with AMD's APUs: That's where faster RAM is justifiable to some degree for games.
 
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Thanks for the advice!

I'll skip the 'high end' RAM.

Suggestions for motherboard? I've been looking at the ASUS Maximus VI Hero, but am not necessarily sold on the board. Unless the onboard sound is truly good, I'll probably use an external DAC instead...

Less expensive options that OC well, perhaps?
 
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