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Gaming Upgrade - can it be cheaper?

A

almalino

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,591
I want to upgrade my old computer. It must last as long as possisble with minimal upgrades.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming - BF3, BF2143 :) 1920x1200
Windows 7 running VirtualBox with Windows XP to run Photoshop for moderate photo processing,

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
400 Euro (may be more)

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
Finland

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc.
CPU - i5-2500k or other?
MB - not sure
Memory - not sure
CPU cooler - not sure


5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?
Antec P182
ATI 5870
600 watt PSU
120 GB SSD

6) Will you be overclocking?
Yes if it is needed for future gaming

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
1920x1080

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
ASAP

9) What features do you need in a motherboard?
USB 3.0
Single video card
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

Windows 7 64 bit

I'm thinking of (prices from hintaseuranta.fi):
CPU - i5-2500k - 215 Euro
MB: Asrock Z68 Extreme3 gen3 - 135 Euro
RAM:16GB DDR3 1600 - 104 Euro
Heatsink: Which one?

Total: 450 Euro+Heatsink

Can I make upgrade cheaper with other components?
 
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The motherboard is already pretty shady. I would look at a Gigabyte, MSI, or Asus Z68 or Z77 motherboard instead.

Which RAM did you choose?
As for HSF, the Coolermaster Hyper 212+ is our top budget HSF recommendaiton.

The only way you can make the build cheaper is to drop the overclocking requirement. If you do, you can drop the CPU down to a Core i5 2400 or 2300 and drop the motherboard down to a H67 motherboard.
 
I want to keep overclock requirement. So, the only way to reduce the cost is to look for used parts here.

CPU - i5-2500k - 215 Euro
MB: Asrock Z68 Extreme3 gen3 - 135 Euro
RAM:16GB DDR3 1600 - 104 Euro
Heatsink: Which one?

Total: 450 Euro+Heatsink


Too bad.
 
Last edited:
Made it a bit cheaper with cheaper motherboard and dropped memory to 8GB - I see no reason for 16GB at the moment even with VirtualBox. Am I right? I plan on average overclock and single GPU. Should be fine for me.

CPU - i5-2500k - 215 Euro
MB: Asrock Z68 Pro3 Gen3 - 90 Euro
RAM:8 GB DDR3 1600 - 54 Euro
Heatsink: Which one?

Total: 360 Euro+heatsink
 
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If I buy in Germany here http://www.getgoods.de

Delivery: 15 Euro
CPU - i5-2500k - 191 Euro
MB: Asrock Z68 Pro3 Gen3 - 82 Euro ( ppl report OCing is complex here, but possible)
RAM:8GB DDR3 1600 - 49 Euro
Heatsink: Which one?

Total: 337 Euro + heatsink

Want even cheaper :) Any ideas? I managed to reduce price by 113 Euro from the original post. Not bad. Can I go under 300?
 
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Changed motherboard to P67. See no reason to buy Z68

If I buy in Germany here http://www.getgoods.de

Delivery: 15 Euro
CPU: ______ i5-2500k - 191 Euro
MB: _______ ASRock P67 Pro3 SE 65 Euro
RAM: ______ 8GB DDR3 1600 - 49 Euro
Heatsink: Which one?

Total: 320 Euro + heatsink

Want even cheaper Any ideas? I managed to reduce price by 130 Euro from the original post. Not bad. Can I go under 300?
 
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Any comments why I should not go with components above? If I go with AMD can I get similar performance with a cheaper price?
 
Ok, again for the second time: Which RAM did you choose?
And again, I've already recommended you our top budget HSF: The Coolermaster Hyper 212+.
Also, what 600W PSU do you have?

As for the motherboard, that motherboard isn't good at all quality wise. There's a reason why good overclock capable mobos cost so much more. I'd avoid Asrock's Z68 and P67 motherboard altogether considering how poor AsRock's Z68 mobos were:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/12/07/asrock_z68_pro3_lga_1155_motherboard_review/
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/11/09/asrock_z68_extreme4_gen3_motherboard_review/

As for AMD, no you can't get similar performance with a cheaper price with an AMD setup.

Ok, what matters more: Saving money or overclocking? As clearly evident, you cannot get both without getting some really crappy parts that actually makes the PC worse than those prebuilt Dells and HPs.
 
Danny, thank you for suggestions!

To answer your questions:
PSU: Corsair PSU 620W 620HX
RAM: I have not selected any particular brand. It is just an indication of price for the RAM with required characteristics. For example this one: http://www.getgoods.de/hardware-sof...-kit-pc3-12800-ddr3-1600-cl9-hyperx-xmp-4x2gb
Heatsink: Unfortunatelly I cannot find model you mentionied in Finland. Actually, I think heatsinks are pretty much in 30 Euro category.

Do you have a suggestion of cheap but reliable P67 motherboard not from AsRock?
 
almalino said:
RAM: I have not selected any particular brand. It is just an indication of price for the RAM with required characteristics. For example this one: http://www.getgoods.de/hardware-sof...-kit-pc3-12800-ddr3-1600-cl9-hyperx-xmp-4x2gb
Click to expand...
If you're going for an Intel setup, do not get that RAM. For an Intel setup, make sure that whatever RAM you get has a RAM voltage of no more than 1.5V. Any higher and you risk damage to the CPU. So since that Kingston RAM is rated at 1.65V, it's basically a bad choice for an Intel setup.
almalino said:
Heatsink: Unfortunatelly I cannot find model you mentionied in Finland.
Click to expand...
Probably because you didn't use the right words:
http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/321448

almalino said:
Do you have a suggestion of cheap but reliable P67 motherboard not from AsRock?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't even recommend a P67 motherboard in general since the P67 mobos tend to be older releases. A Z68 mobo would have better support and will have a higher chance of reliability since it's newer than P67 and most manufacturers learned from their mistakes with their P67 mobos.

So I recommend this MSI Z68 mobo instead:
http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/812162
 
Danny Bui said:
If you're going for an Intel setup, do not get that RAM. For an Intel setup, make sure that whatever RAM you get has a RAM voltage of no more than 1.5V. Any higher and you risk damage to the CPU. So since that Kingston RAM is rated at 1.65V, it's basically a bad choice for an Intel setup.
Click to expand...

Danny, thank you for commenting! I noticed you provided similar comment to other builds in this forum. Did you have a bad experience with RAM rated over 1.5 v? Is it a well known fact?

Danny Bui said:
Probably because you didn't use the right words:
http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/321448
Click to expand...

Thank you! Seems like I was not trying hard enough to find the item.

Danny Bui said:
I wouldn't even recommend a P67 motherboard in general since the P67 mobos tend to be older releases. A Z68 mobo would have better support and will have a higher chance of reliability since it's newer than P67 and most manufacturers learned from their mistakes with their P67 mobos.

So I recommend this MSI Z68 mobo instead:
http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/812162
Click to expand...

I check the raiting of AsRock and MSI boards at newegg and they both got 3 out of 5 points. Actually, there are more people giving 5 to AsRock then to MSI. I feel those boards are equally bad quality, but I might be wrong. BTW, you almost convinced me that it makes sense to buy a better board. I plan to use the computer for many years and OI do not want my computer breaking because I saved just 30 euros on MB.

I may be go with Gigabyte because I have very good experience with it.

So, updated part list:
If I buy in Germany here http://www.getgoods.de

Delivery: 15 Euro
CPU: ______ i5-2500k - 191 Euro
MB: _______ NOT SELECTED but ~100 Euro
RAM: ______ 8GB DDR3 1600 - 49 Euro
Heatsink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 30 Euro

Total: 385Euro
 
almalino said:
Danny, thank you for commenting! I noticed you provided similar comment to other builds in this forum. Did you have a bad experience with RAM rated over 1.5 v? Is it a well known fact?
Click to expand...
Well known fact. It came straight from the Intel representative here on the forums:
IntelEnthusiast said:
With the 2nd generation Intel® Core™ processors only support DDR 3 at 1066/1333 and now on some 1600; that isnt what I am hearing as causing the issue in almost every case is that they are running the memory at 1.65v +. The 2nd generation Intel Core processor only support memory at 1.5v ±5% (1.425v to 1.575v) anything over this has a chance of damaging the processor memory controller.

Personally the performance increase of anything over 1600 doesnt seems to be worth the extra cost.
Click to expand...

almalino said:
I check the raiting of AsRock and MSI boards at newegg and they both got 3 out of 5 points. Actually, there are more people giving 5 to AsRock then to MSI. I feel those boards are equally bad quality, but I might be wrong. BTW, you almost convinced me that it makes sense to buy a better board. I plan to use the computer for many years and OI do not want my computer breaking because I saved just 30 euros on MB.

I may be go with Gigabyte because I have very good experience with it.
Click to expand...
The GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H was pretty much our go-to Gigabyte Z68 mobo back when Z68 mobos were the main chipsets.
 
Thank you , again, for suggestions!

So, updated part list:
If I buy in Germany here http://www.getgoods.de

Delivery: 15 Euro
CPU: ______ i5-2500k - 191 Euro
MB: _______ Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 105 Euro
RAM: ______Corsair 8GB KIT PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 CL9 Vengeance 1.5v 49 Euro
Heatsink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 30 Euro

Total: 390Euro

Any comments? I guess this is pretty much the upgrade cost.
 
almalino said:
What about this one
http://www.huuto.net/kohteet/p8z68-v-pro--lga1155------ei-hv/225875341

it used but still has 1.5 years warranty ongoing.
Click to expand...

No. A second owner will not be warrantied at all whatsoever with most motherboards: Most warranties, including the ones on Asus motherboards, apply only to the original owner (or original purchaser) of said product. So in other words, if you buy a used motherboard, you're totally screwed unless whomever sells it offers its own warranty.
 
almalino said:
Thank you , again, for suggestions!

So, updated part list:
If I buy in Germany here http://www.getgoods.de

Delivery: 15 Euro
CPU: ______ i5-2500k - 191 Euro
MB: _______ Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 105 Euro
RAM: ______Corsair 8GB KIT PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 CL9 Vengeance 1.5v 49 Euro
Heatsink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 30 Euro

Total: 390Euro

Any comments? I guess this is pretty much the upgrade cost.
Click to expand...

I decided to try to estimate similar PC from Finnish shops
Delivery: 15 Euro
CPU: i5-2500k 212 Euro
MB: Asus P8Z68-V LX, 102 Euro
RAM: CORSAIR DDR3-1600 2*4G CL8 VENGEANCE 56 Euro
Heatsink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 36 Euro

Total: 420 Euro

Is MB selection fine?
 
almalino said:
I decided to try to estimate similar PC from Finnish shops
Delivery: 15 Euro
CPU: i5-2500k 212 Euro
MB: Asus P8Z68-V LX, 102 Euro
RAM: CORSAIR DDR3-1600 2*4G CL8 VENGEANCE 56 Euro
Heatsink: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 36 Euro

Total: 420 Euro

Is MB selection fine?
Click to expand...

You might run into compatibility issues between the RAM and the CPU heatsink: The Vengeance RAM's heatsinks are high enough to interfere with the proper installation of the CPU heatsink's fan. In fact, the RAM heatsinks might force you to mount the CPU heatsink's fan so far off-center that either the combo might not fit inside the case or the CPU cooling performance might suffer significantly.
 
E4g1e said:
You might run into compatibility issues between the RAM and the CPU heatsink: The Vengeance RAM's heatsinks are high enough to interfere with the proper installation of the CPU heatsink's fan. In fact, the RAM heatsinks might force you to mount the CPU heatsink's fan so far off-center that either the combo might not fit inside the case or the CPU cooling performance might suffer significantly.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the warning! I will try to find smaller RAM then.
 
almalino said:
Thank you for the warning! I will try to find smaller RAM then.
Click to expand...

The Corsair Vengeance RAM comes in both the one that I described in my previous post and a "LP" ("Low Profile") version that does not have such rall heatsinks (the Vengeance LP does have a heatsink, but it's low enough to fit under a tower CPU heatsink). If you want to use a big tower CPU air cooler, the LP version of the Vengeance RAM is the safer bet.
 
Finally I upgraded my PC after several months of hesitating. Decided not to save on the parts and bought:

Intel Core i5 2500K
Asus P8Z68-V/GEN3
Corsair Vengeance Low Profile 8 GB Kit PC3-12800, 1600 MHz, 2x240 DIMM 8 GB Kit
Arctic Cooling Arctic Freezer 13 PRO
OCZ Agility 3 120 GB 2.5" SSD

Assembled today and PC switched on without any problems from the first time. I'm happy though have not had a chance to test any games on it yet. Downloading BF3 now.
 
You really should have asked for a final look over on that build. A few of those parts aren't good for the money.
 
Danny Bui said:
You really should have asked for a final look over on that build. A few of those parts aren't good for the money.
Click to expand...

Which ones?
MB and Heat sink get good reviews and cheap enough. RAM is lest then 1.5v as recommended here.

I really appreciate your help but yesterday I just got an itch and just went to the show with cheapest prices in the country and bough all these components. Upgrade altogether was 540 Euros.
 
almalino said:
Which ones?
MB and Heat sink get good reviews and cheap enough.
Click to expand...
Those happen to be the parts that are bad for the money IMO.

You could have gotten the Asus P8Z77-V LK Intel Z77 motherboard for less than that Asus Z68 mobo. You would have gained a newer mobo and native USB 3.0 support. The Z68 mobos rely on not-so-reliable 3rd party USB 3.0 controllers for USB 3.0 support.

As for the HSF, at least here in the U.S, that Arctic Cooling Arctic Freezer 13 PRO (At $45 USD) is a pretty bad value since the cheaper Coolermaster Hyper 212+ (at $30 USD) outperforms that Arctic HSF by 20%.

Then there's the SSD: It's from a company with relatively poor customer support, poor track record when it comes to SSDs, and that particular SSD uses the Sandforce controller, controllers that have a history of stability and reliability issues. You should have spent the extra 15 euros for the far more reliable, reputable, stable, and larger storage having Crucial M4 128GB SSD.
 
Danny Bui said:
Those happen to be the parts that are bad for the money IMO.

You could have gotten the Asus P8Z77-V LK Intel Z77 motherboard for less than that Asus Z68 mobo. You would have gained a newer mobo and native USB 3.0 support. The Z68 mobos rely on not-so-reliable 3rd party USB 3.0 controllers for USB 3.0 support.

As for the HSF, at least here in the U.S, that Arctic Cooling Arctic Freezer 13 PRO (At $45 USD) is a pretty bad value since the cheaper Coolermaster Hyper 212+ (at $30 USD) outperforms that Arctic HSF by 20%.

Then there's the SSD: It's from a company with relatively poor customer support, poor track record when it comes to SSDs, and that particular SSD uses the Sandforce controller, controllers that have a history of stability and reliability issues. You should have spent the extra 15 euros for the far more reliable, reputable, stable, and larger storage having Crucial M4 128GB SSD.
Click to expand...

Those are all good points.Thank you! Unfortunately,my purchase was spontaneous and I just got best parts available at the moment in the shop :) Undortunatelly all Z77 MBs were too expensive there at the moment of purchase.

Arctic Cooling Freezer was 30 Euros here, the same as Hyper 212+. Though 20% better performance still worth looking for.

I think this computer will work for me for the next 5 years to come. Like the previous Dual Core one.
 
almalino said:
Those are all good points.Thank you! Unfortunately,my purchase was spontaneous and I just got best parts available at the moment in the shop :) Undortunatelly all Z77 MBs were too expensive there at the moment of purchase.

Arctic Cooling Freezer was 30 Euros here, the same as Hyper 212+. Though 20% better performance still worth looking for.

I think this computer will work for me for the next 5 years to come. Like the previous Dual Core one.
Click to expand...

Just tried automatic overclocking utility from Asus and selected Extreme option. It immediatelly overclocke to 4.3 Ghz and asked do I want to try even higher. I was like WTF, I didn't expect even 4 GHZ. Decided that I do ot need more. Why? Still amazing overclock for autyomatic tool.
 
Danny Bui said:
Not the SSD. I am certain that SSD will be an issue later on.
Click to expand...

Actually, I agree with you. I have 3 such SSDs at home. They works great but one already died once and need to be replaced. So, I guess this one will eventually die also.

But I do not worry about that because it has 3 years warranty and I use SSD only for OS files that is very easy to reinstall.
 
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