Gaming Rig - Opinions Please

[fredgarven]

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

Gaming, web browsing, watching HD movies and TV shows, etc.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

$2000 to $2500 total

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

Little Rock, AR USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

Case, mobo, CPU, CPU cooler, RAM, video, power, hard drive(s) / ssd, Blu-Ray / DVD Burner, SATA cables.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

Kingston SSDNow V Series SNV425-S2BD/128GB 2.5" Desktop Bundle 128GB SATA II Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

6) Will you be overclocking?

Hopefully

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

Dell 3007WFP 30" 2560x1600 Dual-link DVI input only

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

Now

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.

RAID, SLI, USB 3.0, SATA III, onboard sound, lots of HD connections, front panel USB 3.0 connection.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

I have a TechNet subscription.


What I have been looking at so far is as follows:

$254.99 - Thermaltake Level 10 GT (VN10001W2N) Black Case

$159.99 - GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD4-B3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

$559.98 - 2 x EVGA 02G-P3-1568-KR GeForce GTX 560 Ti (Fermi) 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

$169.99 - CORSAIR Professional Series HX850 (CMPSU-850HX) 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC

$219.99 - Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K

$68.70 - ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-R 135mm Long life bearing CPU Cooler Red LED


In addition to opinions on what I have been looking at so far, I would like to get some opinions on memory, SSDs, and hard drives.

First, I want at least 8 GB of memory with the ability to add more if EVER needed. So I need a two stick kit. I am a little confused about the memory speeds. The motherboard I am looking at specs its memory speed at DDR3 2133. Does that mean I would have better overclocking results with pricier memory running at that speed? Or should I just stick with the standard DDR3 1600? Also, I am concerned about memory voltage specs. A lot of them show 1.5V and some show 1.65V. Concerning speed and voltage, which is better for overclocking?

Second, I am looking at SSDs and I am at an empasse. I wanted to get this:
$249.99 - Kingston HyperX SH100S3/120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) (Stand-alone Drive)
But then I read about the Sandforce controller being buggy. Should I hold off on an SSD for now? I don't want to settle for another slower one.

Third, I have no idea what hard drives to get. My plan was to buy the SSD above and run the OS and my favorite games from it. I was then going to get three or four 2 TB hard drives and run them in RAID5 and use my current Kingston SSDNow 128 GB using the Intel Smart Response feature of the motherboard. However, I am not sure that would even work. I know that sounds like a lot of space but trust me, I will use it.

That's it for now. All opinions and suggestions are much appreciated. The only thing I am standing firm on is that ugly, but cool case. I have to have it!

 

[xBanzai89]

That Zalman is overpriced for its performance. A Coolmaster Hyper 212+ for $30 will perform just as good for overclocking that 2500K.

A 2x4GB DDR3 1333MHz at 1.5V for $40-$50 is all you need for memory. Even clocking up to 2133MHz will not make that much of a difference for game performance. It is not recommended getting above 1.5V ram too for Sandy. Beyond that there is no real reason to overclock ram as you have a unlocked multi on that 2500K.

For a SSD I would recommend the Crucial M4 128GB. The drive is a favorite for being recommended here due to good CS and reliability. Thanks to the newest firmware there is now a 20% boost in performance too making it even a better value.

I recommend the Samsung F3 1TB a lot, but concerning your needs I am not sure what would be a good one. I am sure someone here can fill you in on that.

 

[E4g1e]

fredgarven,

Go with xBanzai89's suggestions. Especially the recommendation for the Crucial M4 SSD. You see, the Kingston HyperX SSD uses a Sandforce controller - and all newer Sandforce-based SSDs suffer from the BSOD issue in Windows (meaning that you'll almost certainly experience repeated BSODs when you use any recent Sandforce SSD such as that HyperX). All recent Sandforce-based SSDs have been proven extremely unstable just even running Windows.

 

[tiraides]

How do you want to handle RAID: Do you want to go cheap or do it right?

I ask because Danny Bui, among others, would not recommend you using the onboard RAID controller (or the Samsung HD103SJ) for RAID 5. I mean, why RAID 5? You'd still need some sort of backup setup (like external drives or a multi-drive NAS) as RAID only guarantees drive uptime.

But if you want more information on RAID 5 in general, courtesy of the man himself:

HDD: 3x Western Digital GP 2TB (already have one) in RAID5

Unforuntately the above Western Digital drives are unsuitable for the Windows/controller based RAID that you're going for due to the lack of TLER. When using with Windows or any sort of RAID controller (that includes both software and true hardware RAID), those drives will be either noted as degraded, not detected at all, or even kicked from the RAID array once setup. Those drives are only usuable in a RAID if you're using a non-Windows solution. So right now, you should be looking at Samsung or Hitachi drives if you want any sort of semblance of reliability with a parity based RAID array, Windows, and a card based RAID. So I recommend this:
$80 - Samsung Spinpoint F4 HD204UI 2TB 5400 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

You could probably use the 2TB drive you have now as the OS drive for the server.

RAID Card: HighPoint RocketRAID 2310 PCI Express x4 (x8 and x16 slot compatible) SATA II (3.0Gb/s) Controller Card

Do note that you have selected a software RAID controller. It does not have a XOR engine that a true hardware RAID controller will have and does not have an onboard cache. In other words, it's still gonna use the PC's CPU to do all of the parity calculations. As such, you're gonna see rather slow performance, especially in Windows, due to that CPU once you start loading a ton of data onto the server.

We're talking like 40Mb/s to 50Mb/s at best here. If you don't mind the used route, I recommend the following:
[Dell Perc 5/i Card]

If you don't mind buying used hardware with little or no warranty, you could buy a Dell Perc 5/i card off eBay for ~$100 or so plus two of these SFF-8484 to 4 x SATA Cables for ~$25. Thus, you get 8 ports and a true hardware RAID controller for around ~$125 or so. Add a battery backup unit for ~$40 and you're set in case of power outages as well up the performance. Not a bad deal considering that a new true PCI-E hardware RAID controller is around $450 for 8 ports.

EDIT: As of May 2009, it seems that you can find many Perc 5/i cards with the BBU and PCI bracket for $120 and under. Excellent price!
EDIT: As of May 2010, it seems that prices for Perc 5/i cards have jumped up to $150 without BBU and PCI bracket.
EDIT: As of May 2011, it seems that the Perc 5/i5 can be be had for about $100 with BBU but without PCI Bracket.

But those Dell Perc 5/i cards are finicky about motherboards. It will take up PCI-E x16 slot if you don't have a PCI-E x8 slot.

Read these threads for more info:
Dell Perc 5/i RAID Card: Tips and Benchmarks
Finally went to a Hardware Raid5 controller...
Dell Perc 5/i - Mainboard Compatibility List
Solution for Dell Perc 5/i for Intel Chipsets
Add 8 device SAS/SATA 256MB BBU Enterprise class RAID card to your rig for about $100 w/ PERC 5i (LSI 8480E OEMed to Dell)

There's actually a thread on that very topic over in the Networking & Security subforum:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1621700

However the main reason for enterprise grade drives would be hardware RAID support IMO. The problem is that many hardware RAID controllers these days do not work that well with consumer grade drives. With that said, if you're using software or OS based (not Windows) RAID, then the choice of drives isn't that big of an issue from a compatibility aspect.

However if you're still gonna insist on consumer grade drives after reading the above thread and my post on it, then I recommend at least going with Hitachi hard drives as their consumer grade drives tends to work rather well with hardware RAID controllers.

Also, have you thought about going with a prebuilt PC that's been certified for ESXi usage? It would simplify things a lot.

TL;DR:
- Hardware RAID 5 > Software/OS RAID 5 > Windows RAID 5 (but a hardware RAID card can be expensive)
- Enterprise HDDs are recommended for hardware RAID; otherwise, use consumer grade Hitachi or Samsung HDDs
- If RAID5 isn't a priority, then 2TB "green" drives would work for your needs

And all of this information is on top of what xBanzai89 mentioned earlier, who I agree with.

 

[fredgarven]

Ok thanks a lot guys. I got the memory situation sorted out. I am going to step back from the SSD for now. I will just use my trusty old Kingston SSDNow for a little while longer until the issues get ironed out.

As for hard drives, I am really not looking to break any records with speed. I just want to store and share on my network large amounts of data. I am using RAID 5 right now with three 750 GB HDs and and two 1 TB drives in RAID 1 and I'm running out of space on them. I have three 2 TB externals that are almost full and one 1.5 TB external that is approaching full capacity.

My biggest question that I cannot find an answer for anywhere online is if I setup a RAID 5 array with four 2TB drives on the built-in SATA II ports, can I run an SSD on one of the SATA III ports using Intel's Smart Response Technology caching applied to the array in order to help with the speed?

 

[fredgarven]

Ok, I'll be pulling the trigger on this on Saturday, maybe Sunday. Here is what I have. Keep in mind, I am not real concerned with saving money more than I am with having everything run fast, stable, match up in color, and look pretty.

$289.99 - Thermaltake Level 10 GT Snow Edition

$179.99 - GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3P

$279.99 x 2 - EVGA 02G-P3-1568-KR GeForce GTX 560 Ti (Fermi) 2GB

$169.99 - CORSAIR Professional Series HX850 (CMPSU-850HX) 850W

$219.99 - Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz

$69.99 - G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB)

$69.99 - ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-B 135mm Long life bearing CPU Cooler Blue LED

$390.99 - Crucial M4 CT256M4SSD2 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

$20.99 - ASUS 24X DVD Burner

I have decided to keep my old system and use its hard drives as file storage for now. I will just add 2TB-3TB drives one at a time to this new system as needed and forego the whole RAID thing.

I have just a few concerns:

1) Will that memory at a 7-7-7-21 timings be any faster at all than the other G.Skill Ripjaws running at 9-9-9-24?

2) Do I need to be worried about the Z68 Gigabyte motherboard and the restart loops? Has that been corrected with BIOS updates? My research on this is not clear. Do any of you have more information on this?

3) I have a 30" monitor running at 2560x1600. I wanted to be able to use the LucidLogix Virtu setup using the HDMI connection on this motherboard. I want this feature in order to save not just a little tiny bit of insignificant power, but also heat. I spend a lot of time not gaming. I want my discreet cards to be able to shut down while using non-3D applications. My monitor only has a DVI input. I see there is such a thing as an HDMI to DVI with dual-link capabilities. Dual-link DVI is required in order to get to 2560x1600. Would an HDMI to dual-link DVI adapter support the 2560x1600 resolution using the Virtu feature of this board? Everything I can tell points to only 1920x1200 max, making this a useless feature for me. This would force me to have to use the discreet cards full time.

4) Do you guys think the 850w power supply is too much? I plan to add 3-4 hard drives within two years. Could I get away with a 750w? Also, my next build in 3-4 years will be an upgrade to this new box with the intent on salvaging as many parts from it as possible.

Thanks a lot in advance for your help. I really appreciate any comments or advice.

 

[Forceman]

1) Will that memory at a 7-7-7-21 timings be any faster at all than the other G.Skill Ripjaws running at 9-9-9-24?

4) Do you guys think the 850w power supply is too much? I plan to add 3-4 hard drives within two years. Could I get away with a 750w? Also, my next build in 3-4 years will be an upgrade to this new box with the intent on salvaging as many parts from it as possible.

Thanks a lot in advance for your help. I really appreciate any comments or advice.

I would not pay that much for that memory. You would be just as well served with this set, for $20 cheaper, as Sandy Bridge is not terribly sensitive to RAM speed:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428

I'd say the 850 watt PSU is a prudent choice with the 2 x 560s and a large number of hard drives (and it's not that much more expensive than the HX750), but someone else can probably weigh in with a more informed opinion.

 

[tiraides]

If you're really concerned about Gigabyte's potential issues, then consider one of the following alternatives:

$160 - MSI Z68A-GD55
$165 - Asus P8Z68-V

Again, grab the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus over the Zalman CNPS9900MAX-B. You'll have similar if not greater performance for $40 less.

You won't see any performance benefit by going with DDR3 1xxx CL7 RAM over DDR3 1333 CL9 RAM. Go with the oft-cheaper DDR3 1333 CL9 kit; even a name-brand "value" RAM kit would work wonders.

Though you have your "file server" already established, I recommend a HDD like the Samsung HD103SJ for basic storage needs in your new system. SSDs, like HDDs, perform better when they're not filled to capacity, so you can use the Samsung drive to store "non-essential" data like pictures or music (or programs that you won't use often). The Samsung HDD is also fast enough that you won't have to wait long for said data/programs to load.

A good 850 watt power supply with at least 65A in the 12V rail(s) is what we recommend for dual-card CrossFire or SLI these days, so you're fine. However, I recommend not trying to grab the biggest PSU you can find for the sake of longevity. Power supplies degrade over time, but they degrade even faster if they're constantly pushed. Plus, given that the costs of power supplies have generally gone down over time, it's more practical to buy a newer, better (quality) PSU if and when the time comes.

Which games are you playing? At what level of visual quality? I ask because for many of the more modern FPS (or graphically intensive) games, you may want a high-end (GTX 570 or HD 6970) dual-card solution.

Unfortunately, I can't answer your questions about LucidLogix Virtu. I don't know enough about the technology to make an informed opinion on your options.

 

[fredgarven]

Again, grab the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus over the Zalman CNPS9900MAX-B. You'll have similar if not greater performance for $40 less.

The choice of the Zalman is me simply liking the look of it better than the CoolerMaster. Cost be damned! I'm a little older now and making a bit more, I deserve to splurge a little, within reason of course.

Which games are you playing? At what level of visual quality? I ask because for many of the more modern FPS (or graphically intensive) games, you may want a high-end (GTX 570 or HD 6970) dual-card solution.

I would prefer to use the full potential of my monitor at 2560x1600 in all games. That is one of the reasons for my new build. I did choose the 2 x GTX 560TI in SLI with 2 GB of VRAM each because I was under the impression they would handle it. Are you saying they will not?

 

[Forceman]

Are you specifically partial to Nvidia? Have you considered 2 x 6950s? I think they would outperform the 2x 560s and be a little cheaper to boot.

 

[fredgarven]

Are you specifically partial to Nvidia? Have you considered 2 x 6950s? I think they would outperform the 2x 560s and be a little cheaper to boot.

I'm not exactly partial to nVidia as much as I am EVGA. Since they only offer nVidia, it's pretty much all the choice I have. Do you know of an AMD/ATI manufacturer that supports their hardware as well as EVGA? I'm certainly willing to entertain the idea.

 

[Dangman]

I'm not exactly partial to nVidia as much as I am EVGA. Since they only offer nVidia, it's pretty much all the choice I have. Do you know of an AMD/ATI manufacturer that supports their hardware as well as EVGA? I'm certainly willing to entertain the idea.

XFX is the closest.

 

[fredgarven]

XFX is the closest.

I'll take a look. Thanks for that.

So does anyone have an answer as to concern #3 in post #6 above?

 

[Dangman]

So does anyone have an answer as to concern #3 in post #6 above?

As far I can tell, yes you are limited to 1920x1200 (maybe even x1080) when using the onboard video. However it appears that the video port can support up to 2560x1600 once you switch from the onboard video to the dedicated GPU. Which is not really worth it since you're still using the dedicated GPU.