Gaming meets Graphic Design Computer

Due to time issues I'd like to order the following parts tonight. They cost a total of $1307, since the $ is pretty much equal to the CHF.. If one of you you could confirm that I havn't slipped up anywhere that would be cool.


2 X SATA300 750GB - 7200 SAMSUNG SpinPoint F1 (32MB) [SAH-HD753LJ] (To be Raid 0'd) - $263.40

INTEL Core 2 Quad 2.5GHz Q9300 + Ventilateur [ LGA775 - 6MB - 45nm - 1333MHz] - $323.80

EVGA e-GeForce 8800GT Superclocked PCIe ( GeForce 8800GT 512DDR 2xDVI ) - $250.50

DDR2 4GB [2GBx2] DDR800 (PC2-6400) - CORSAIR [TWIN2X4096-6400C5 G] - $112.90

MSI P35 Platinum ( Intel P35 - Socket 775 - FSB 1333 ) - $167.40

Alimentation 650W CORSAIR TX Series [CMPSU-650TXEU] - $117.90

ZerOtherm NV-120 Nirvana - Universal CPU Cooler [ Socket LGA775 / 939 / AM2 / 940 ] - $71.50

Total (for now): 1307.40 CHF

Potentially still to come: Case / Case Fans.
 
ElevenFingers said:
Basically what you're implying is that case cooling isn't that important as long as it's quiet even if you upgrade your stuff?
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No. Case cooling IS important. The Yate Loons and the Scythe S-Flex are recommended because they are both quiet AND provide good cooling.

Well anyhow here are the pics
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I'm going to have to let Danny Bui or enginurd or someone else let you know what will fit or not. Since I don't know when Danny Bui might see this thread again, here's his list of recommended cases, in case you want to get a new one. I realize the links won't help you, but you'll have an idea of pricing. Personally, I'm using the Antec P182 in my new computer.

--------------------------------
Originally Posted by Danny Bui

Cooler Master RC-590-KKN1-GP ATX Case - $60
Cooler Master RC-690-KKN1-GP ATX Case - $70
Cooler Master Mystique RC-632S-KKN1-GP ATX Case - $75
Antec Solo - $78
Lian Li PC-7B Plus II Silver ATX Case - $80
Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B ATX Case - $90
AeroCool Masstige ATX Case - $100
Gigabyte Aurora GZ-FSCA1-ATB ATX Case - $115
Rocketfish Aluminum Full-Tower Case - $120
Antec P182 ATX Case - $130
Thermaltake Armor VA8000BWS Full Tower ATX Case - $140
Thermaltake Armor VA8003BWS Full Tower ATX Case - $150
Lian Li PC-A16A ATX Case - $150
--------------------------------

If one of you you could confirm that I havn't slipped up anywhere that would be cool.
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The only thing I see is that the 8800 GT video card you are getting runs hot, and noisy. Here is a review.
 
The CG is only temporary, and I don't feel like shelling out extra money for a card that I'm going to replace in 6 months time if this one does the job.
 
While everything MAY fit, with creative placement of drives to avoid the vidcard, it will be a cramped case. You'll also need some 80mm fans for your front intake and I highly suggest a 120mm exhaust fan. You may also want to remove that duct on the sidepanel and stick another exhaust fan there, unless you'll need it for an intake. You'll need good cable management to improve airflow in that case, btw, so get creative and check out the rate your cables thread to get some ideas. It also looks like you should remove the "grill" of the rear exhaust fan using a dremel. In other words, that case needs a lot of work. It would be better to get a new one when you can.

Any 8800GT that uses the stock reference cooler, like the one you chose, will run hot and noisy. So if you want something quieter, look at the Asus or MSI models, with dual slot coolers. However, those brands don't have a step-up program. There may be some BFG and eVGA models with improved coolers, but I'm too lazy to look.
 
ElevenFingers said:
The CG is only temporary, and I don't feel like shelling out extra money for a card that I'm going to replace in 6 months time if this one does the job.
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Well, how about a 9600 GT 512MB then? That's fine for a 20" monitor, and runs cooler and less noisy than an 8800 GT. And if you get a BFG Tech or eVGA card, you can use their Step-Up programs within three months to only pay the difference in price from a 9600 GT to get a new GTX260 or GTX280.
 
That BFG NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT OC PCIe ( GeForce 9600GT 512DDR 2xDVI HDCP HDTV) looks a lot better in terms of everything. Thanks a lot for pointing that out. I'll look into getting a new case as well.

Is this the one you had in mind?

PS: Some of the links in that list of cases are broken.
 
ElevenFingers said:
Is this the one you had in mind?
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Yes. I figure that if you get a card that is already overclocked, you'll probably be able to overclock it even faster than a non-overclocked version since it's probably binned higher than a non-overclocked version. Of course, I could be wrong :)
 
I like the Antec P182 ATX Case too. It's a little more expensive here though. Do you recommend I take the optional fans or would they just get in the way of my HSF? I really like the interior design of the case and it looks mature/classy from the outside.

So basically get this case, change the CG and then I'm finally good to go? No last changes?
 
The P182 comes with 3 fans, two exhaust in the upper chamber, and one middle fan for the lower chamber. You can add two more fans without modding, a wind tunnel intake for the upper chamber, and you can mod the case to take an intake fan in the lower chamber. I'd recommend at least adding an intake fan to the upper chamber.

Typically, you can't go much higher with pre-OC'd cards than you can with non-pre-OC'd cards, so its up to you. People usually just get the non-OC'd version and OC it themselves.
 
ElevenFingers said:
I like the Antec P182 ATX Case too. It's a little more expensive here though. Do you recommend I take the optional fans or would they just get in the way of my HSF? I really like the interior design of the case and it looks mature/classy from the outside.

So basically get this case, change the CG and then I'm finally good to go? No last changes?
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I recommend getting that case, I have the older P180 revision and I love mine:) The P182 is the improved version of that case. Change the GC if you want. The 9600GT is a bit weaker than the 8800GT.
 
Danny Bui said:
Change the GC if you want. The 9600GT is a bit weaker than the 8800GT.
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He's planning on replacing it with a next generation card anyway. And on a 20" monitor, I don't think he'll see much of a difference between the 9600 GT and an 8800 GT, except the 9600 GT will be quieter and run cooler.
 
What's your favorite 120mm fan that I should add to the case? Can it be multiples of the same fan or do the slots have different sizes?
 
ElevenFingers said:
What's your favorite 120mm fan that I should add to the case? Can it be multiples of the same fan or do the slots have different sizes?
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I realize this web site is probably worthless for you, but at least you can see what I'm referring to: 120mm Yate Loon D12SL-12 Case Fan - Black (47 CFM, 28 dBA). The fans are available in different colors, and even blue LEDs. Type in Yate Loon in the web site's search box, to see all of the available fans.

The case determines what size fans you can use. Most cases use 120mm fans.
 
ElevenFingers said:
What's your favorite 120mm fan that I should add to the case? Can it be multiples of the same fan or do the slots have different sizes?
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Yes it can be multiples of the same fan. The P182 uses nothing but 120mm fans. Definitely see if you can get that specific Yate Loon that AndonSage linked to. That's the better Yate Loon model from what I've seen so far.
 
I ordered it all. I stayed with the 8800 GT and I took the case. I'm down 1500 CHF... so about $1500. Thanks to everyone here at [H]ard|Forum, especially Danny Bui, AndonSage and enginurd.

Addition: I just read an article that basically said that the current games actually run worse on a quad core. I already ordered it though so I was wondering how bad this effect is and how long it should take for games to be able to use quad cores efficiently.
 
ElevenFingers said:
Addition: I just read an article that basically said that the current games actually run worse on a quad core. I already ordered it though so I was wondering how bad this effect is and how long it should take for games to be able to use quad cores efficiently.
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Even though games may technically run "worse" on a quad core, they should still be sufficiently playable when paired with a good graphics card. Quad core processors are usually clocked slightly slower than dual-core processors, so if a game is only able to utilize one or two cores, then the extra two cores on the quad would be of no benefit and the slower clock would mean that there would be worse performance. It's nothing to worry about with any of the Core 2 quads though.
 
ElevenFingers said:
Addition: I just read an article that basically said that the current games actually run worse on a quad core. I already ordered it though so I was wondering how bad this effect is and how long it should take for games to be able to use quad cores efficiently.
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"Run worse" is subjective. If a game only uses one or two cores, then the extra cores on a quad-core won't help. At that point, performance depends on the speed of the CPU. Most quad-cores are clocked lower than similarly priced dual-cores. However, if you overclock a quad-core up past 3GHz, then you really won't see a difference. I read an article that showed the "sweet spot" for gaming was 3.2GHz to 3.4GHz (depending on the game), and any speed past that provided highly diminishing returns. Here is an article you can read: May 14, 2008: CPU scaling in games with quad-core processors. They declare the Q9450 to be the winner, although the E8400 might be the best bang for the buck, currently.

More and more games will use four cores, so you'll be ready for them :)
 
So reviving an ancient topic with a twist,

I'm back from college and want to replace my Envy14 laptop with my old desktop which still seems to run alright. I've been out of the loop for too long to know what's in style and potentially a good buy. I will be buying the parts in the united states this time.

I want to be able to use all the current media (blu-ray etc..) and run games on very high to ultra.

I *think* this is what I currently have but I hadn't booted this desktop in two years so I'm not 100% sure I bought what I said I bought. But let's say I'm 99% sure.

2 X SATA300 750GB - 7200 SAMSUNG SpinPoint F1 (32MB) [SAH-HD753LJ] (To be Raid 0'd)
INTEL Core 2 Quad 2.5GHz Q9300 + Ventilateur [ LGA775 - 6MB - 45nm - 1333MHz]
EVGA e-GeForce 8800GT Superclocked PCIe ( GeForce 8800GT 512DDR 2xDVI )
DDR2 4GB [2GBx2] DDR800 (PC2-6400) - CORSAIR [TWIN2X4096-6400C5 G]
MSI P35 Platinum ( Intel P35 - Socket 775 - FSB 1333 )
Alimentation 650W CORSAIR TX Series [CMPSU-650TXEU]
ZerOtherm NV-120 Nirvana - Universal CPU Cooler [ Socket LGA775 / 939 / AM2 / 940 ]

I'd like to keep as much of the old computer as possible without inhibiting it's power too much. Which parts besides the GPU do you think need replacing and which GPU would you recommend? Money isn't a huge issue but I like bang for buck deals. If there's a card or cards that have been on the market for a while but still hold their own and are compatible with my machine that'd be perfect. I'm not sure my CPU will still hold up to the likes of I5-7 four years later and I'm pretty sure I need more ram. Harddrives and power-supply seem alright to me but I may be wrong. The system will be reformatted once I back up all my old files.

Also, I might be connecting this system to a 5.1 surround sound system and from what I can see I don't have enough outputs coming from my motherboard to support it. Would I need a soundcard or am I being a complete audio-noob?

Which Blu-ray compatible tray would you recommend to replace my 6 year old CD/DVD tray?
 
DDR2 RAM is relatively overpriced these days. Whether or not the CPU is good enough for games on high to ultra is largely dependent on what games you're planning to play. If BF3 and Skyrim, you're gonna need a new CPU + mobo + RAM HSF.

The PSU and HDDs are still usable. Also, what case are you using?
 
Thanks for the quick reply. Like four years ago you're being very helpful. :)

I have until mid August to get the parts so there isn't a real hurry yet. While I do have roommates that have cars, I myself do not, so I'd prefer ordering online in most cases. I live in Minneapolis, MN if there's some crazy supplier I don't know about.

I'm using the basic Antec P182. Currently the middle shelf is empty and only one of the top trays is being used. The HDDs are in the bottom shelf. One card slot has the 8800GT in it and another has my WLAN card. No additional Fans or mods. And yeah, I'm looking to run whatever comes out for the next year or so on high/ultra. I'll be playing D3, GW2, SoaSE-Rebellion (CPU intensive) for sure but I also own Skyrim, Civ V, Shogun 2 etc. and would love to see those on their highest settings. I still tinker with CS5 and do some Matlab work.

What would you recommend as a new CPU, mobo and RAM/HSF. What about a GPU? I'd love to spend less than a grand total if possible, but I understand that these are the most expensive parts.

I'm looking for a solid and stable system that won't need too much work over the next two years. Games in 2013 don't have to run on Ultra. And yeah, the HDDs seem stable enough. Is 650W enough to power todays system's? Hopefully my heat-sink will fit on the new mobo.

I may want to hook up some turn-tables to this system. Would anything besides the software be required?

All in all it looks like I will need:

Mobo
CPU
GPU
RAM
*CD/DVDRW (Blu-Ray compatible if it isn't too much more expensive)
*Audio (If required in addition to Mobo for 5.1/Home Cinema)
*Additional Fans if things are going to be getting hotter.

*optional if I have money left over

Budget: $600-1000 (best bang for buck applies)

What I have:

Monitor
Case - Antec P182 (basic - no mods)
PSU - 650W CORSAIR TX Series
HDDs Raid 0 - 2 X SATA300 750GB - 7200 SAMSUNG SpinPoint F1 (32MB)
Heat Sink - ZerOtherm NV-120 Nirvana
 
How does the AMD Radeon HD 6950 hold up? I've heard good things about it. How far is DX12 off the horizon? Would I be able to fit a mobo and two SLI/Crossfire'd cards in my case or should I opt for a slightly faster single card?

2 x AMD Radeon HD 6950 Crossfired or one GTX670? Could I potentially SLI a second one later and what kind of motherboard would be required to do so?

Do you think the price of the GeForce GTX670 will go down over the next few months?

I most likely won't be buying any of this stuff until mid July or so.
 
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Sorry, dunno how I missed this thread. To answer your questions:

What CPU you should get depends on your answer to this question:
6) Will you be overclocking?

As for what motherboard, please answer this question:
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? UEFI? etc.

GPU wise, that's largely dependent on this question:
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

A good 650W like the Corsair TX650 will be enough for today's systems. No, your heatsink will not fit on a new motherboard these days. You will need a new HSF if you plan on overclocking. If overclocking, I recommend this HSF:
$30 - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus HSF for LGA 1366 and LGA 1156

The HD 6950 2GB is a good card if you can get it for $200 to $230. Any higher and you might as well go for the HD 7850 which trades blows with the 6950 but has lower power usage and will end having longer driver support.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about DX12. It hasn't even been announced and MS is trying to time the release of their new DX with a new OS release. Windows 8 is only coming with an updated DX11. So it's not even something that you should think about.

Due to the fact that the Antec P18x series was never designed for dual GPUs, temperatures will be relatively high if you go for a SLI/Crossfire setup. So single GPU is your best bet if you're not switching cases anytime soon or don't plan on modding a side fan over the GPU area to the P182.
 
I haven't ever overclocked. I had planned to do it last time when I built the computer but because I was a little worried about messing it up I never did. I would, however like to do it. Especially if it's stable and safe. More power for less money just sounds great.

Concerning the motherboard: I think I will need Raid 0 for my HDDs. I think the HDDs are SATA II, but I'm so clueless on this subject it's not even funny. USB 3.0 and in-built Wifi would be nice but isn't neccessary. I will be hooking up two monitors at most to this system. 6 USB ports would be great. And the ports to support a 5.1 Audio system if that's part of a motherboard. I don't think I will be getting two GPUs for a few reasons, some of which you mentioned. I am looking for a mid to hi-end GPU and CPU though and don't want my Motherboard to bottleneck them.

I plan on running things on a single monitor. Right now that monitor is 22" but I will most likely be buying a new one when I move. It probably won't be bigger than 25" and I won't be getting eyefinity. From what I've read the GTX670 seems to be an awesome card for a single-monitor 1080p setup. Hopefully come July this card will be a little cheaper.

I was really happy with my 8800 GT and I'm looking for a similar card like it was for its time. The HD 7850 does look like a really great card. Do you think the GTX 670 will get any cheaper over the next few months? How much more oomph do I get for $150 when comparing the GTX670 and HD7850? Do other components, such as Mobo, cooling etc factor in?
 
ElevenFingers said:
I haven't ever overclocked. I had planned to do it last time when I built the computer but because I was a little worried about messing it up I never did. I would, however like to do it. Especially if it's stable and safe. More power for less money just sounds great.
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Actually you're paying more money for the pleasure of overclocking actually:
$200 - Intel Core i5-3450
$240 - Intel Core i5-3570K

Both CPUs perform the same at stock speeds. However, the i5 3450 has a limited OC of around 3.6Ghz. The i5-3570K can OC past 3.6Ghz all the way to 4.2Ghz to 4.5Ghz.

ElevenFingers said:
Concerning the motherboard: I think I will need Raid 0 for my HDDs. I think the HDDs are SATA II, but I'm so clueless on this subject it's not even funny. USB 3.0 and in-built Wifi would be nice but isn't neccessary. I will be hooking up two monitors at most to this system. 6 USB ports would be great. And the ports to support a 5.1 Audio system if that's part of a motherboard. I don't think I will be getting two GPUs for a few reasons, some of which you mentioned. I am looking for a mid to hi-end GPU and CPU though and don't want my Motherboard to bottleneck them.
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Ok, when exactly do you plan on buying the parts of this PC? If it's not this month, then I'm going to hold off on the mobo recommendation as my mobo recommendations tends to change more often than other parts due to the somewhat volatile pricing that mobos have. Not to mention the use of newegg's combo deals.

ElevenFingers said:
I was really happy with my 8800 GT and I'm looking for a similar card like it was for its time. The HD 7850 does look like a really great card. Do you think the GTX 670 will get any cheaper over the next few months? How much more oomph do I get for $150 when comparing the GTX670 and HD7850? Do other components, such as Mobo, cooling etc factor in?
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I can't predict what the prices will be for the GTX 670 in the next few months. However, as far as I can see, the only big reason for the GTX 670 to get cheaper would be if AMD lowers the price of their GPUs again. At this point in time, the GTX 670 performs as fast, if not faster, as the $450 to $480 HD 7970. AMD already cut the prices on that card earlier this month. IMO, in order for the GTX 670 to get significantly cheaper, AMD would have drop their HD 7970 to around $350 or less.

As for the performance difference between the HD 7850 and GTX 670, depending on the game, you're looking at a 30% to 50% performance increase.
 
Thanks for all the useful imformation. I'll be buying the parts in July and will be doing some research over the next two months. Most likely I'll be coming back to this post as I get more and more precise on what I am looking for. I may try to put together a second computer from the leftover parts of three older computers I have laying around in the meantime.
 
I think I will be getting the 670 or 7970 but I don't know from which brand. I hadn't even realized it mattered. Could you point me in the direction of a good deal? Is the Intel Core i5-3570K still your recommended deal?

How does the ASRock Z77 Extreme4 compare to other motherboards for the gtx670 and i5-3570K?
 
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ElevenFingers said:
I think I will be getting the 670 or 7970 but I don't know from which brand. I hadn't even realized it mattered. Could you point me in the direction of a good deal?
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I still recommend the GTX 670 from Asus, eVGA, Gigabyte, or MSI.
ElevenFingers said:
Is the Intel Core i5-3570K still your recommended deal?
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If you're doing overclocking, then go for the 3570K. If you're not overclocking, then go for the Core i5 3450
ElevenFingers said:
How does the ASRock Z77 Extreme4 compare to other motherboards for the gtx670 and i5-3570K?
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Not a fan of AsRock. I'd rather go with a mobo from Asus, Gigabyte, or MSI instead. I recommend this mobo in particular:
$150 - Asus P8Z77-V LK Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard
 
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