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Gaming build help (times two!)

A

Ater

n00b
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
6
Preamble: I'm looking to upgrade both my computer and my wife's. I've been out of the hardware game for a while (5ish years), and it's a little overwhelming trying to reacquaint myself. I have no idea where AMD and Intel lie in their respective strengths anymore, or even if you should still try to pair AMD cards with AMD CPUs, and nVidia cards with Intel CPUs.

I've tried to answer the questions to the best of my memory, with a little help from CPUID (as I've long since thrown away boxes and receipts).

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Primary: Gaming
Secondary: Web browsing
Tertiary: Video consumption & minimal spreadsheet flailing

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
~$500 +/- $100, tax and shipping not included.
Note: This is per computer. The goal is to keep the total cost for both rigs ~$1000.
Note, the second: I place greater emphasis on excellent value over raw budget.

3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.
Raleigh, NC USA. No Microcenters near me, to my knowledge, unfortunately.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU + Mobo
RAM
GPU
Power Supply (for me) - would prefer semi-modular and quiet

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Cases - me: Silverstone Raven v2 / her: Thermaltake Armor
HDD - Samsung 256g SSDs
PSU - her: Corsair TX650w
CPU Cooler - me: Corsair H50
RAM - 2x 4g 2000Mhz DDR3; 2x 2g 2000Mhz DDR3 (if it's easier/better, I can pass on reusing these)
Monitors - me: 2x 24" 1920x1200 / her: 2x 24" 1920x1080
Peripherals - both: Razer Lycosa keyboard, Logitech m518 mouse, Logitech G13 gamepad, 2.1 speakers

6) Will you be overclocking?
If it's a better overall deal to get a relatively cheaper CPU and then overclock, I'm fine with doing that. Otherwise, this isn't a priority.

7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
me: 2x 24" 1920x1200
her: 2x 24" 1920x1080

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Within the next two weeks. I can be patient when it comes to waiting for a good deal, though.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
SATA 6Gb/s (this would help take full advantage of our SSDs . . . right?)
Otherwise, not much. We have no plans to Crossfire or SLI. We can go pretty barebones with the motherboard. I guess overclocking capabilities would be handy if I was going the route mentioned above regarding OCing a cheaper CPU to achieve a better overall deal.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Both - Windows 7 64bit

Bonus) What are your gaming habits? Triple A titles? Retro/Indie? MMOs?
We play most of our games about release "late". Example, after this upgrade, I'm going to be playing Bioshock Infinite. She would like to play Metro: Last Light. We just bought Diablo III. She's currently playing Banished, and we both still play Borderlands 2.


I place a high priority on quiet computing. My current PSU is a Seasonic, and I'd prefer to stick to that brand. I'm okay giving up a little bit of power for some quieter parts. Just a little, though.

In general, I'd rather buy parts new. There's no Microcenter or Fry's near me, so everything will be purchased online. However, I am okay buying a GPU that was used for bitcoin mining, through eBay, for something like this: $175 + $13 s/h Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3G (by the way, is that a good deal?)

Some parts that have caught my attention:
GPUs
Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3G - $175 + $13 (I mentioned this above)
CPUs
Intel Pentium Processor G3258 - $75
Athlon X4 750K - $80

I have no idea about motherboards or RAM. Most guides I'm running across cover enthusiast gear, while I just need something pretty barebones. If I'm wrong on that, though, I am very willing to be educated.

Sorry for the massive amount of text. I figured it would be better to err on the side of more detail, than less.

Thanks for helping out this uber-lurker.
 
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What CPU and motherboard do the both of you have? The two CPUs you've mentioned may not even be that much of an upgrade considering that you have such high-speed RAM and expensive cases which means that you may have spent quite a bit of money on CPUs at the time.

Some additional questions:
1) What's the model number of those RAM?
2) What's the model number of your current Seasonic? Why are you replacing it?
3) Do you still have the additional brackets for your Corsair H50?

To answer your questions/concerns:
No you don't have to pair AMD with AMD nor do you have pair Intel with Nvidia. They all play nice with each other, even five years ago ;). Basically, for gaming, you'd want an Intel CPU. If you plan on playing with just the onboard video or Mantle enabled games only, that's when AMD CPUs is usually are good alternatives to Intel. Other than that, I would stick with Intel CPUs for gaming.

SATA 6Gb/s really only matters if you're doing constant data transfers between multiple SSDs. For the most part, you'll still get the main benefit of a SSD, the fast random read/write times, with the SSD on an older SATA 3.0Gb/s port.

That Sapphire isn't a good deal since it's now sold. With that said, still not worth it IMO even if it was still available considering that a brand-new R9 280, which isn't that much slower than the R9 280X, can be found for around $230 to $250, usually from a far more reputable manufacturer like Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI. Not to mention the addition of an actual warranty.
 
I updated my signature with my current build information to help out (can't believe it took me over 9 years to do that . . .). As for her, she has an Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz and a Gigabyte P35-DS3L.

To answer your questions:
1) To clarify, I have two 4GB sticks (F3-12800CL9-4GBSR2) and two 2GB sticks (F3-12800CL9-2GBRL) in my rig. I completely misread the speed on it. It's not 2000. For her, she has two 2GB sticks of G.Skill DDR2 (F2-8500CL5-2GBPK).
2) Seasonic SS600HT. I guess I'm just worried that it's getting old and that new GPUs and CPUs have increased requirements (especially from an amperage point of view).
3) Alas, I do not. This current rig has gone through three moves with us, and not all the spare parts made it through all three.

Now that the "ooh, shiny" phase has worn off a bit, I'm starting to wonder if just upgrading our old GTX 260s to R9 280s will be sufficient for us. Would our current CPUs be bottlenecking our gaming too much with an R9 280?

My original thought process when I dived back into hardware research was that Intel CPUs did seem to be better for gaming (like you corroborated). Thus, upgrading my AMD CPU and her older Intel CPU would be a good idea. But, as I think about it, I'm not sure anymore if the cost to upgrade would be worth the performance increase.
 
Well some notes:

  • You're definitely looking at new RAM for either you or your wife as your wife's DDR2 RAM is completely incompatible with newer motherboards.
  • Your current PSU is fine.
  • You might be looking at a new HSF or even using the stock HSF as that Corsair H50 is more than likely only compatible with AMD. I really wouldn't recommend AMD CPUs for gaming.
  • Your current CPUs will bottleneck the crap out of the R9 270 let alone the faster R9 280.

I'll be back later with a build list for the both of you.
 
FNtastic said:
Did you say something about Intel processor being better at gaming than AMD?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu8Sekdb-IE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV2Voo5h3eU
Click to expand...

Yes I did. I hate watching "review videos" because I can read faster than the video takes to play. So I didn't watch those videos. So I cannot account for veracity of those videos. However, I can prove my position:
http://www.hardwarepal.com/battlefield-4-benchmark-mp-cpu-gpu-w7-vs-w8-1/

Ater said:
Much appreciated.

This seems like a good deal to me, but I'm proving myself to be uneducated in these matters: Asus R9 280 $229 - $20 MIR = $219
Click to expand...
I don't factor in MIR until I actually receive them.
Ater said:
Also, I'm not sure how high I have to go for the CPU to not bottleneck the GPU. Would this deal, overclocked, be sufficient? - MSI Z97 U3 Plus and Intel Pentium G3258 - CPU and MOBO $99

Again, thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
Not really worth it since you'd also have to buy a 3rd party cooler to keep that CPU cool. Might as well use the money spent on the cooler towards a faster CPU from the get-go. At a minimum, you should be fine with the Core i3 4130. Maybe the Core i5 4430 if you can afford it. It would certainly last longer than the Core i3.
 
FNtastic said:
So, you're going to try and dispute something without all of the evidence? Sounds like great detective work! :cool:
Click to expand...
Meh, I'm not sitting in front of my PC for 30+ minutes to watch videos narrated by an annoying voice and more than likely improperly done "review/test" when I can read a properly done article in 5 to 10 minutes and not have to suffer through it.
 
Dangman said:
Meh, I'm not sitting in front of my PC for 30+ minutes to watch videos narrated by an annoying voice and more than likely improperly done "review/test" when I can read a properly done article in 5 to 10 minutes and not have to suffer through it.
Click to expand...

Immediately dismiss the validity of others' work based on something that may or may not be correct, written by someone else. With no proof of work. Sounds like you will make a great politician one day! :cool:
 
FNtastic said:
Immediately dismiss the validity of others' work based on something that may or may not be correct, written by someone else. With no proof of work. Sounds like you will make a great politician one day! :cool:
Click to expand...
I have provided my proof. You have provided your "proof". Now it's up to the OP to decide.
 
Dangman said:
I have provided my proof. You have provided your "proof". Now it's up to the OP to decide.
Click to expand...

Great job at dismissing someone else's claims again. Way to do it in such a passive aggressive way.

I only wanted the OP to not get ripped off by the Intel market and get stuck with something that cost him 4 times as much as what he could get with AMD. Anyway, good luck OP. This guy's detective work is obviously top-notch and he's already figured everything out for everyone without even entertaining the opposing claims. :cool:
 
I think . . . I'm getting more caught up in analysis-paralysis. I'm trying to do my research, staying open-minded to all sides.

One of the things that I tried to look up was the comparison between the Core i5 4430 and the FX-6300. I know that seems like a weird thing to compare, but I'm trying to figure out what's "good enough" for me. Why spend the money on an 80" tv if I'm good with a 40", ya know?

I haven't been finding a lot of positive information about AMDs FX series when it comes to gaming, but that seems to be more a matter of an FX chip "only" getting 70 FPS instead of an i5's 90 FPS (making those numbers up to illustrate the point). Which means that the FX is "good enough" for now, but the i5 will server me better over the next five years.

I'm big on value, but I will definitely pay more for a superior product . . . if the marginal costs are worth it.

Ugh. My head hurts. :confused:
 
FNtastic said:
Great job at dismissing someone else's claims again. Way to do it in such a passive aggressive way.

I only wanted the OP to not get ripped off by the Intel market and get stuck with something that cost him 4 times as much as what he could get with AMD. Anyway, good luck OP. This guy's detective work is obviously top-notch and he's already figured everything out for everyone without even entertaining the opposing claims. :cool:
Click to expand...
When you find a well written article that proves your point, then I'll entertain your claims. Until then, I'm not bothering with your youtube videos. Even if there are youtube videos that proves MY position, I still wouldn't use them if they're shoddily done and executed like the ones you posted.

OP, in case you're wondering what my other issues with those videos, besides what I mentioned earlier about suffering through annoying voices, they are:
1) They don't mention how many runs they did of each game to get an average score
2) The first video only used older games whereas the article I posted is of Battlefield 4 Multiplayer. The second video only shows BF4 singleplayer and everyone knows that's nowhere near as stressful as BF4 multiplayer.

All in all, those videos were lazy work. Again, compare the information you get from the BF4 CPU Multiplayer article I posted to those videos and that's should be easily evident.

Ater said:
I think . . . I'm getting more caught up in analysis-paralysis. I'm trying to do my research, staying open-minded to all sides.

One of the things that I tried to look up was the comparison between the Core i5 4430 and the FX-6300. I know that seems like a weird thing to compare, but I'm trying to figure out what's "good enough" for me. Why spend the money on an 80" tv if I'm good with a 40", ya know?

I haven't been finding a lot of positive information about AMDs FX series when it comes to gaming, but that seems to be more a matter of an FX chip "only" getting 70 FPS instead of an i5's 90 FPS (making those numbers up to illustrate the point). Which means that the FX is "good enough" for now, but the i5 will server me better over the next five years.

I'm big on value, but I will definitely pay more for a superior product . . . if the marginal costs are worth it.

Ugh. My head hurts. :confused:
Click to expand...
It is true that FX CPUs are "good enough" but it is also true that if you're going to spend good money, it might as well be on the best possible bang for the buck.

For you:
$185 - Intel Core i5-4430 CPU
$70 - MSI B85-G41 PC MATE Intel B85 ATX Motherboard
$240 - Asus DirectCU II R9280-DC2T-3GD5 Radeon R9 280 3GB PCI-E Video Card
----
Total: $495

For your wife:
$185 - Intel Core i5-4430 CPU
$70 - MSI B85-G41 PC MATE Intel B85 ATX Motherboard
$76 - Kingston HyperX Blu KHX1600C10D3B1/8G 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM
$240 - Asus DirectCU II R9280-DC2T-3GD5 Radeon R9 280 3GB PCI-E Video Card
----
Total: $571

Total for everything: $1066 shipped.

I'm assuming that you're going to stay at 12GB of RAM while your wife gets 8GB of RAM. 4GB of RAM is technically fine but with the continually rising cost of RAM these days, might as well get as much you can now before they become overly expensive.
 
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Oh, wow. Thanks for that. That seems perfect for us. I didn't actually think I could go with a quality Intel build for ~$250. Always thought I would have to break the $300 mark, which is why I gave AMD such strong consideration. The performance increase and the future-proofing for only a $50 increase (the FX builds I was looking at were ~$200) seems quite worth it.

Since the CPU is beefy enough out of the box, and I won't be overclocking for some time (if ever), will the stock cooler be sufficient for the time being?
 
Ater said:
Oh, wow. Thanks for that. That seems perfect for us. I didn't actually think I could go with a quality Intel build for ~$250. Always thought I would have to break the $300 mark, which is why I gave AMD such strong consideration. The performance increase and the future-proofing for only a $50 increase (the FX builds I was looking at were ~$200) seems quite worth it.

Since the CPU is beefy enough out of the box, and I won't be overclocking for some time (if ever), will the stock cooler be sufficient for the time being?
Click to expand...
Yes the stock cooler is sufficient for the time being unless you happen to live in a very very hot place or there's no cooling in your home.
 
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