Galaxy S8 May Feature ARM Mali-G71 GPU And 4K Display

Megalith

Megalith

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If this was a couple of months ago, I’d be whining about why a smartphone would even need a 4K display, but now that I’ve tried VR, I will just say that the next Galaxy should be very interesting for those kinds of applications. Of course, there is no telling how much the battery life will suffer for this display novelty.

The new GPU is said to be up to 1.8 times as powerful as the Mali-T880 MP12 GPU used in the Exynos 8890-powered Galaxy S7. Moreover, this GPU is reportedly faster than the one from the Snapdragon 830 according to GFXBench results. The Mali-G71 GPU uses ARM’s brand new Bifrost architecture, which is claimed to offer high-end 4K and VR experiences. It is also compatible with Vulkan, OpenGL ES 3.2, GPU Compute, and Android RenderScript APIs. Running at 850MHz, the 16nm GPU can provide a throughput of 27.2Gpix/s, which is double than that of the Mali-T880 GPU running at the same frequency.
 
damicatz said:
A phone doesn't need a 4K display. All you are doing is increasing power usage and slowing down performance since the integrated GPUs in phones can't handle those types of resolutions.
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Have you used gearvr? No? Ok then, it actually needs 8k, 4k still won't be enough.
 
gxp500 said:
Have you used gearvr? No? Ok then, it actually needs 8k, 4k still won't be enough.
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That's isn't why you buy a phone though is it? Just to use VR? I think this is a fork in the road where a phone ceases to just be a phone because a phone doesn't need to be saddled with the overhead of a 4k display.
 
thesmokingman said:
That's isn't why you buy a phone though is it? Just to use VR? I think this is a fork in the road where a phone ceases to just be a phone because a phone doesn't need to be saddled with the overhead of a 4k display.
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People buy smartphones for several different reasons. VR is one reason and for that use 4K and above screens are needed. What a phone needs is based entirely on the individual buying it and their uses.
 
The galaxy line was once my favorite line of phones. With this, it is dead to me.
 
thesmokingman said:
That's isn't why you buy a phone though is it? Just to use VR? I think this is a fork in the road where a phone ceases to just be a phone because a phone doesn't need to be saddled with the overhead of a 4k display.
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Phones don't need internet browsers, or 3D games, or the ability to watch videos or listen to music, but that's what consumers want...
 
The best will be watching people try not to look like 80 year olds texting, browsing, and snapchatting using a 4K panel that's 6" diagonal, with the battery life of 3 hours..... :p

VR? yeah, we need DPI not overall resolution....how much of the current 1200x1080 (or whatever they are) panels are you actually looking at when you're using the VR headset.......I recall seeing the science somewhere online...it's why game makers have to make games that force you to use your head/neck and not just your eyes, the way most of us do gaming in 2D.
 
Most important question: How much more will it cost me to replace after I crack the screen?
 
If they were smart they would go with an nvidia GPU... but hey, the mobile division has been phoning it in for years so what can you expect?
 
thesmokingman said:
That's isn't why you buy a phone though is it? Just to use VR? I think this is a fork in the road where a phone ceases to just be a phone because a phone doesn't need to be saddled with the overhead of a 4k display.
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I can't tell if you're serious or making a joke.

Using a smartphone as a traditional phone has to be one of its least common applications these days.

Most people communicate over apps or texts or emails, and the occasional phone calls are often over bluetooth like when in the car.

Its the most common form of GPS navigation, internet browser, media consumption, gaming platform, hotspot, alarm clock, smarthome controller, remote control, and much much more. Heck, its often used for obscure applications like controlling camera equipped quadcopters, the display and GPS/internet connection for my smart radar detector, and diagnosing car problems like my bluetooth OBD2 connector in the car.

"Mobiles" would be a better name these days, to signify its really a mobile computer.

With 4K television screens becoming more common, its also very useful to have a mobile that can output to it smoothly, and a integrated GPU that can handle simple 4K movies and games like minecraft could surely handle beefier games at say 1080p outside of VR.

With wireless charging, I also don't see the big inconvenience with say charging it every evening, or even just setting it down next to you at work so its always topped off at 100%.

There is certainly a market for "dumbphones", but that market is well covered with inexpensive Chinese products and expensive iPhones.

I've been waiting to upgrade my S6 Edge with a 4K phone, including VR use, so this is certainly for me.
 
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All I want to know is how much larger is the blast radius for its defence mode?
 
Ducman69 said:
I can't tell if you're serious or making a joke.

Using a smartphone as a traditional phone has to be one of its least common applications these days.

Most people communicate over apps or texts or emails, and the occasional phone calls are often over bluetooth like when in the car.

Its the most common form of GPS navigation, internet browser, media consumption, gaming platform, hotspot, alarm clock, smarthome controller, remote control, and much much more. Heck, its often used for obscure applications like controlling camera equipped quadcopters, the display and GPS/internet connection for my smart radar detector, and diagnosing car problems like my bluetooth OBD2 connector in the car.

"Mobiles" would be a better name these days, to signify its really a mobile computer.

With 4K television screens becoming more common, its also very useful to have a mobile that can output to it smoothly, and a integrated GPU that can handle simple 4K movies and games like minecraft could surely handle beefier games at say 1080p outside of VR.

With wireless charging, I also don't see the big inconvenience with say charging it every evening, or even just setting it down next to you at work so its always topped off at 100%.

There is certainly a market for "dumbphones", but that market is well covered with inexpensive Chinese products and expensive iPhones.

I've been waiting to upgrade my S6 Edge with a 4K phone, including VR use, so this is certainly for me.
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Is this the rebuttal now? Omg phones are used for browsing, text, etc etc. No shit sherlock. If you haven't got the point, it's that 4k screens on a 6in device is just a waste and if its to output VR, it's even more stupid. Desktops have a hard enough time running 4k games, we don't want more fake crappy 4k on phones when those resources can be put to better use.
 
thesmokingman said:
Is this the rebuttal now? Omg phones are used for browsing, text, etc etc. No shit sherlock.
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If you haven't gotten the point, its that mobiles aren't phones, they are mobile computers that have a million different applications, INCLUDING virtual reality. And not just virtual reality gaming, but even just for watching TV and movies on a virtualized bigscreen since it can provide the illusion of sitting in a movie theater or enjoying 360o photographs, just like you are there. With a little dock, it could also turn your 4K TV into a smart-TV, since it will obviously be able to output 4K video no problem.
thesmokingman said:
If you haven't got the point, it's that 4k screens on a 6in device is just a waste and if its to output VR
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According to who? You? What are your credentials?

What resources are required to display a 4K movie or TV show or streams or ASMR/meditation guidance in a virtualized environment? What resources are needed to show 360o photographs? 4K can make the difference between screendoor and no screendoor.
thesmokingman said:
Desktops have a hard enough time running 4k games, we don't want more fake crappy 4k on phones when those resources can be put to better use.
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No they don't. Desktops have a hard time running photorealistic type games in 4K, absolutely. But what about a 4K minecraft? Or Pacman in 4K? What about a 4K sidescroller mario bros? You act like there's 4K Crysis and that's it.

Look at this VR resolution simulator, and yes its a very simple minecraft game, but notice how the screendoor diminishes as you go up in resolution. Its night and day.

And again, there is a hell of a lot more to VR than playing video games. There are a ton of 360o videos just on youtube alone, which I browse with my GearVR.

VR is also great for watching 3D media, as it really "pops".
 
The only reason for a 4K screen on a sub 6" device would be VR imo. I would wager most people that buy smart phones never once use them for VR. If that is your thing, then great for you. For the rest of us, it is waste of resources. A needless drain on the battery and processing power of the smart phone.
 
Gorankar said:
The only reason for a 500hp engine on a sub 10K lb vehicle would be Racing imo. I would wager most people that buy cars never once use them for racing. If that is your thing, then great for you. For the rest of us, it is a waste of resources. A needless drain on the gas tank and hood length of the vehicle.
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Fixed that for you... ;) The existence of a 4K flagship mobile doesn't mean there won't be cheaper lower resolution battery sipping "Camry" type mobiles on the market to choose from. In fact, I'd wager those more basic devices will be the mainstream choices, especially since most service providers are making you buy your own phone now and not including it into the plan. Its not like its one or the other.
 
A pretty terrible car analogy. On the small screens, outside of VR, 4K would hardly be noticeable. 500HP compared to 120HP would be noticeable pretty much all of the time. Gear VR is pretty damn cool, but 4K is fairly pointless to most of us outside of VR.
 
Gorankar said:
A pretty terrible car analogy. On the small screens, outside of VR, 4K would hardly be noticeable. 500HP compared to 120HP would be noticeable pretty much all of the time. Gear VR is pretty damn cool, but 4K is fairly pointless to most of us outside of VR.
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Extremely high DPI will still be nice regardless, assuming any video apps take advantage of it. Either way, why does it matter? Samsung is doing it because it's a feature they can use in ads to make the phone seem cool. For those of us that like VR it's a great feature. For everyone else. Eh, what's the point in caring if it doesn't effect you?
 
Because it will affect battery life, and cost. Which affects everyone regardless of VR usage or not. Those extra pixels are not free when it comes to processing power, battery life, or the wallet. If they bring back the swappable battery, I might be a bit happier with this decision.
I am not condemning the decision to go 4K, just saying it falls outside my preference given the possible trade offs involved.
 
Gorankar said:
Because it will affect battery life, and cost. Which affects everyone regardless of VR usage or not. Those extra pixels are not free when it comes to processing power, battery life, or the wallet. If they bring back the swappable battery, I might be a bit happier with this decision.
I am not condemning the decision to go 4K, just saying it falls outside my preference given the possible trade offs involved.
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As long as the battery life isn't as bad as some of the phones I've had over the years I'll be okay. Though I can understand battery life can be an issue for power users. Outside of VR I don't use my phone for too much beyond normal smartphone stuff.
 
gxp500 said:
Have you used gearvr? No? Ok then, it actually needs 8k, 4k still won't be enough.
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It's a phone, not a video game system.

There is no way you are going to push enough pixels with an integrated GPU using LPDDR4 with all of 3.2gbps of bandwidth (which is significantly less than even the Wii U). Even if you had a Pascal-based Tegra, you would be bottlenecked by the lack of dedicated video memory.
 
damicatz said:
It's a phone, not a video game system.

There is no way you are going to push enough pixels with an integrated GPU using LPDDR4 with all of 3.2gbps of bandwidth (which is significantly less than even the Wii U). Even if you had a Pascal-based Tegra, you would be bottlenecked by the lack of dedicated video memory.
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All you had to do was say that you've never used GearVR and have no experience to base your opinions on. It would have taken less time.

People use GearVR for more than games. 360 videos are great, it's a good 3D movie player, even watching 2D videos on it is amazing. As far as games go, most of the games on GearVR aren't super graphically intensive. The ones worth playing are designed around the device and it's limitations.

All this stuff reminds me of a few years ago when people were bitching that phones didn't need 1080p screens and they would never be useful and games would be too powerful for phones to handle them.
 
I like the 2560*1440 display on my Lumia 950... everything is razor sharp and nary a pixel to be seen....
 
Gorankar said:
For the rest of us, it is waste of resources. A needless drain on the battery and processing power of the smart phone.
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Just lower the resolution to 720p like you can on the new note 7 and enjoy your pixels.
 
gxp500 said:
Just lower the resolution to 720p like you can on the new note 7 and enjoy your pixels.
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It's not just about the extra gpu cycles required to render the higher resolution. A higher resolution display also doesn't let as much light to pass through as a lower resolution, so a brighter and more power hungry backlight is needed. And lowering the rendering resolution doesn't fix that.
 
TrailRunner said:
It's not just about the extra gpu cycles required to render the higher resolution. A higher resolution display also doesn't let as much light to pass through as a lower resolution, so a brighter and more power hungry backlight is needed. And lowering the rendering resolution doesn't fix that.
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Yes but the gpu only renders 720p compared to 2.5k or 4k so it uses less power, its not perfect but its better than nothing. Some components might use less power while other will use more, its a balancing act, they'll throw in a bigger battery and no one will care anymore.
 
That is a feature I greatly suspect they will not include in their next phones. It will be a very courageous innovation by omission. ;)
 
gxp500 said:
Yes but the gpu only renders 720p compared to 2.5k or 4k so it uses less power, its not perfect but its better than nothing. Some components might use less power while other will use more, its a balancing act, they'll throw in a bigger battery and no one will care anymore.
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Speaking of battery, that is one thing I hope they do, as I really don't care about 1-2mm less thickness. And if you make the corners slightly raised and rubberized, I wouldn't even need to put it in a case.

But I have to say, ever since I've gotten my S6, the fact that wireless charging (especially the second gen ones now) work so well, I really never worry about battery life.

I have a wireless charger by my front door, by my bed stand, by my office, and by my computer desk at work.

I don't like sitting down with crap in my pockets, so was always setting my phone down anyway, and this way its getting topped up and near 100% most of the day, and there's no fiddling with USB cables.
 
TrailRunner said:
It's not just about the extra gpu cycles required to render the higher resolution. A higher resolution display also doesn't let as much light to pass through as a lower resolution, so a brighter and more power hungry backlight is needed. And lowering the rendering resolution doesn't fix that.
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Galaxy phones have never had a backlight.
 
tybert7 said:
don't let the door hit you on the way out, have fun with the iphone or the lg/sony/htc
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Nah, I'll just keep my fully customized Gnex running 6.0.1. I have the advantage of not having to be forced into shitty features.
 
Derangel said:
All you had to do was say that you've never used GearVR and have no experience to base your opinions on. It would have taken less time.

People use GearVR for more than games. 360 videos are great, it's a good 3D movie player, even watching 2D videos on it is amazing. As far as games go, most of the games on GearVR aren't super graphically intensive. The ones worth playing are designed around the device and it's limitations.

All this stuff reminds me of a few years ago when people were bitching that phones didn't need 1080p screens and they would never be useful and games would be too powerful for phones to handle them.
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Maybe I didn't make myself clear. You aren't pushing 4K worth of pixels with LPDDR4 that barely rivals the Wii for memory bandwidth. You would be bandwidth constrained even for the 2D parts. The only way 4K screens would work would be to render at 2K and use some kind of upscaling algorithm defeating the whole purpose and needlessly wasting power.

You want VR? Get an Oculus or a Vive and use a PC that has the proper amount of power to actually make full use of it.
 
damicatz said:
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. You aren't pushing 4K worth of pixels with LPDDR4 that barely rivals the Wii for memory bandwidth. You would be bandwidth constrained even for the 2D parts. The only way 4K screens would work would be to render at 2K and use some kind of upscaling algorithm defeating the whole purpose and needlessly wasting power.

You want VR? Get an Oculus or a Vive and use a PC that has the proper amount of power to actually make full use of it.
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We'll see when the phone is actually out, assuming any of these specs are even real.

I had a Rift. Even Lucky's Tale make me feel like I was going to throw up (Edit: And let's not even go into what Subnautica felt like). Have yet to experience that feeling with the GearVR. At least as long as I'm sitting.
 
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