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G80s and R600s?!

I honestly dont think they will be released until next year. There really isnt any need for them. Both ATI and Nvidia just got done doing refreshes on there cards. Both are really good cards from both companies and are both ATI and Nvidia cards are selling really good. They should wait at least 6 more months before they even think about rolling them out. I just dont see any need for them.
 
i disagree with that assumption, its not like the DX10 cards will be worthless for DX9 games and should still give us our normal increase in performance with DX9 games as well, not to mention with alot of talk about UT2007 having a patch ready for DX10 complaince, the new flight sim coming out from MS, and Crysis coming out fairly soon as well all being DX10 it would be smart to have the market saturated with DX10 parts ready for these games when the gamer wants to play them.

theres no reason for the games to come out to start supporting them, they never have and possibly never will, even though support for DX10 won't come till vista which isn't until 2007, doesn't mean ATi or Nvidia can get their driver support for their products top notch in the mean time

also, ATi is moving into unified architecture, releasing a product with that ahead of time (as they already have with the XENOS) and supplieing it to the consumers also gives them further room ahead of the competition as far as technology goes, who knows when the DX10 games start coming out they'll already have a revision going into them with.
 
Trimlock said:
i disagree with that assumption, its not like the DX10 cards will be worthless for DX9 games and should still give us our normal increase in performance with DX9 games as well, not to mention with alot of talk about UT2007 having a patch ready for DX10 complaince, the new flight sim coming out from MS, and Crysis coming out fairly soon as well all being DX10 it would be smart to have the market saturated with DX10 parts ready for these games when the gamer wants to play them.

theres no reason for the games to come out to start supporting them, they never have and possibly never will, even though support for DX10 won't come till vista which isn't until 2007, doesn't mean ATi or Nvidia can get their driver support for their products top notch in the mean time

also, ATi is moving into unified architecture, releasing a product with that ahead of time (as they already have with the XENOS) and supplieing it to the consumers also gives them further room ahead of the competition as far as technology goes, who knows when the DX10 games start coming out they'll already have a revision going into them with.
Click to expand...
it makes sense for the G80 to come out in a few months but everything i have read on the R600 says its DX10 only. so it looks like we could have a new Nvidia series well before Ati.
 
hmm.. yea, i haven't heard anything much from ATI or Nvidia. I'm thinking about my Conroe system, and I'd like to pick everything up by maybe november or december, so just planning ahead on whether I should save up for a card like a 7900GT or X1900XT or wait for a new gen card (if it comes out when i buy my conroe system). I guess I'll just use my current g-card until DX10 comes out
 
it makes sense for the G80 to come out in a few months but everything i have read on the R600 says its DX10 only. so it looks like we could have a new Nvidia series well before Ati.
Click to expand...

well the G80 is Nvidia's official DX10 part, the only differences between the two products from what i'm aware of is ATi's is unified, Nvidia's is not
 
Trimlock said:
i disagree with that assumption, its not like the DX10 cards will be worthless for DX9 games and should still give us our normal increase in performance with DX9 games as well, not to mention with alot of talk about UT2007 having a patch ready for DX10 complaince, the new flight sim coming out from MS, and Crysis coming out fairly soon as well all being DX10 it would be smart to have the market saturated with DX10 parts ready for these games when the gamer wants to play them.

theres no reason for the games to come out to start supporting them, they never have and possibly never will, even though support for DX10 won't come till vista which isn't until 2007, doesn't mean ATi or Nvidia can get their driver support for their products top notch in the mean time

also, ATi is moving into unified architecture, releasing a product with that ahead of time (as they already have with the XENOS) and supplieing it to the consumers also gives them further room ahead of the competition as far as technology goes, who knows when the DX10 games start coming out they'll already have a revision going into them with.
Click to expand...


I wasnt talking about Direct X 10 though. There are only a handful of games that are supporting it anyway. I was just talking about, the frequent refreshes of video cards these days, and its been like 6 months since the ATI refresh and 2 months since the Nvidia refresh. They need to slow down. With SLI, Crossfire, and other tech out now, or less you are running a really high resolution, for the most part, today hardware does fine in games. Sure Oblivion and some other games, could benefit from faster cards, but not that badly.
 
i agree with the fact that games do not currently need anything much faster then we have, but by the time these come out, we are surely to have alot more demanding games, such as UT2007, and Supreme Commander, i full plan on being an early adopter of these cards even though i'm sure by the time their true potential to be released doesn't happen for another 8 months

i did kind of splurge this round (although i got bad ass deals) and got a X1800XL and a X1900XTX, which i don't even game that much on ... kinda funny how that works, i game more on my 6800GT then my XTX... :D either way once this card arives i'll be keeping my XL and ditching everything else i have, i can't wait to see what both companies come out with
 
I wouldn't be worried about DX10 for now, we have a while until games really start using it.

I've heard that R600 is suppose be out before the end of the year, but a DX10 only card is retarded. There will be backward modes otherwise alot of people would be upset.
 
The sooner the better. While you guys might be apathetic about having D3D10 cards prior to Vista's release, a lot of devs want to know how D3D10 actually performs, and the sooner the cards are out the sooner they'll know.
 
I kinda get the impression that we'll be seing the G80 a lot sooner than the R600, ATi probably won't release the R600 until Vista arrives reason is that this GPU will not show marked performance improvement on DX9 games, instead ATi will answer the G80 with a refresh for the R580.

Of course this is all speculation, please add salt.
 
you speculate that it won't come out till Vista and that it won't have improved DX9 performance, why would you say that?

we don't even know what these cards are coming with yet, or even what mem spec they'll use, will they be the first to incorporate GDDR4? or will they have GDDR3? we have no clue what any of these cards will release with
 
skeeder said:
I wouldn't be worried about DX10 for now, we have a while until games really start using it.

I've heard that R600 is suppose be out before the end of the year, but a DX10 only card is retarded. There will be backward modes otherwise alot of people would be upset.
Click to expand...

I thought DX9 was supposed to be emulated in vista. So even if the hardware is only DX10, the wrapper should be able to handle DX9->DX10. Might be similar to when DirectDraw was phased out and started being done in Direct3D.
 
trek554 said:
it makes sense for the G80 to come out in a few months but everything i have read on the R600 says its DX10 only. so it looks like we could have a new Nvidia series well before Ati.
Click to expand...


That logic does not make any sense. All DX10 parts should be able to run any lowever versions of DX. And ATI had the R9700 (first DX9 cards) out there months before DX9 was even avaible. So I dont think that will be the driving factors on which is released first. But more so where each is at in the developement process....
 
We do have some confirmed specs about both GPUs and also some roadmaps, and these are the source of speculations.

It is quite known that ATi are working on a refresh for the R580 from what I understand this chip will have no architecture changes just a boosting of the clock frequency + possible the use of GDDR4, this card is probably intended to cover the interim period between next August and the release and wide implementation of Vista next year, ATi did state that they will not release the R600 before Vista is released.

NV on the other hand does not have any further refreshes for the G70/71 coming, only the G80, which they've been working on for a long time now (some patents are dated DEC 2003).

Both cards should be able to run DX9 software, BUT the R600 with its unified design is geared more towards DX10 performance.

Oh, and always take what I say with a grain of salt I'm no expert at all, I just read a lot.
 
Suflex said:
I kinda get the impression that we'll be seing the G80 a lot sooner than the R600, ATi probably won't release the R600 until Vista arrives reason is that this GPU will not show marked performance improvement on DX9 games, instead ATi will answer the G80 with a refresh for the R580.

Of course this is all speculation, please add salt.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I actually think that we'll be seeing the R600 either just as soon as the G80, or possibly earlier. My main reason for thinking this is so far ATi has stuffed a lot of basically D3D10 technology into their drivers and the X1000 series of chips, showing that they've not only done a lot of R&D on the necessary tech, but have done enough R&D such that they can use it in a practical sense right now. Some of the features I'm referring to are things like Render-to-vertex-buffer, HDR+AA, and alpha-to-coverage (it seems like this has seen an early implementation in the form of AAA, or at least uses some algos that AAA does).
 
Sure ATi have more experience with unified technology than NV, the Xenos GPU is a testament to that, but this soes not mean they have to release first, marketing wise it may not the better option.
 
It would make sense to release the DX10 cards as soon as they could. If Microsoft wants people to all use DX10, then the hardware needs to be in the hands of people before Vista is released, not after. This will also help push devs to use all the crazy new DX10 features for their games, as well as bring the performance up a few notches in the process.

It wouldn't make sense to release the new cards after, or along side the Vista release. I would expect something soonish. Well, I would hope so, because i'm holding out till they do. I dont want to be screwed next year with a non-native DX10 card. I want my realtime water ripples.
 
I'm under NDA about it but I figure what the hell, llet 'em sue. They'll be coming out on the 30th of july and then the 16th of december, respectively. :p


Come on bro... u should know that that's a well guarded secret. No one knows that can talk and those who can't talk don't care if you know because they are too busy worrying about not getting sued by a multi-million dollar company.
 
Lazy_Moron said:
I honestly dont think they will be released until next year. There really isnt any need for them. Both ATI and Nvidia just got done doing refreshes on there cards. Both are really good cards from both companies and are both ATI and Nvidia cards are selling really good. They should wait at least 6 more months before they even think about rolling them out. I just dont see any need for them.
Click to expand...

Yea, and they could both release the cards now and leave DX10 off or not enabled in drivers or something. Then release new cards next year with Vista and push them as the DX10 cards to have. Then they'd get consumers to buy into 2 product lines.
 
i hope so, otherwise theres going to be a lot of older games i can't play anymore.
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
I believe that is what DX9L is for no?
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D3D9Ex exists primarily to provide a way for D3D9 apps to take advantage of VDDM/D3D10's new features. Yes, D3D9 works with a unified shader architecture. It would be suicidal for ATi or NV to release a new GPU that no games made in the last 15 years can use, and can only be used for games in the future.
 
We do have some confirmed specs about both GPUs and also some roadmaps, and these are the source of speculations.

It is quite known that ATi are working on a refresh for the R580 from what I understand this chip will have no architecture changes just a boosting of the clock frequency + possible the use of GDDR4, this card is probably intended to cover the interim period between next August and the release and wide implementation of Vista next year, ATi did state that they will not release the R600 before Vista is released.

NV on the other hand does not have any further refreshes for the G70/71 coming, only the G80, which they've been working on for a long time now (some patents are dated DEC 2003).

Both cards should be able to run DX9 software, BUT the R600 with its unified design is geared more towards DX10 performance.

Oh, and always take what I say with a grain of salt I'm no expert at all, I just read a lot.
Click to expand...

i can agree with your assumption, but i think ATi would be smarter to release a product to compete against Nvidia's when they release and market a DX10 product.

does it matter? in real time no, but look how well the NV40 series (6 series) did against ATi's 420 series by just marketing SM3.0? did it make a lick of a difference? no, but just having that on the box made it more marketable and i believe was one of the sole reasons for selling better, and i can see the same thing happen with the DX10 release

although i really want to see if GDDR4 is all that, and see how well it works on a R580 GPU
 
I'm truly looking forward to these new cards, total anticipation of how high the dB rating on ATI's cooling solutions will go. We'll all have to start wearing ear protection before you know it.
 
just watch the R600 and G80 come with some kind of mini phase-change cooling solution LOL! and they will STILL run 80 C
 
Suflex said:
I kinda get the impression that we'll be seing the G80 a lot sooner than the R600, ATi probably won't release the R600 until Vista arrives reason is that this GPU will not show marked performance improvement on DX9 games, instead ATi will answer the G80 with a refresh for the R580.

Of course this is all speculation, please add salt.
Click to expand...

ATi announced that the R600 will release this year.. before VISTA and will be the fastest DX9 card EVER.. which does make sense.. given that when using DX9 apps it will probably revert to being a 16TMU, 16ROP, 8 Vertex Shader, 56 Pixel Shader Unit card.... clocked much higher then the x1900 and using GDDR4 with ATi's AMAZING ringbus memory controller.

Click ME!

Edit: 64 Unified shaders.. not the 60 I based my calculations on.
 
ElMoIsEviL said:
ATi announced that the R600 will release this year.. before VISTA and will be the fastest DX9 card EVER.. which does make sense.. given that when using DX9 apps it will probably revert to being a 16TMU, 16ROP, 8 Vertex Shader, 52 Pixel Shader Unit card.... clocked much higher then the x1900 and using GDDR4 with ATi's AMAZING ringbus memory controller.

Click ME!
Click to expand...
maybe that will shut up all the people saying we wont see G80 and R600 before Vista.
 
ElMoIsEviL said:
ATi announced that the R600 will release this year.. before VISTA and will be the fastest DX9 card EVER.. which does make sense.. given that when using DX9 apps it will probably revert to being a 16TMU, 16ROP, 8 Vertex Shader, 56 Pixel Shader Unit card.... clocked much higher then the x1900 and using GDDR4 with ATi's AMAZING ringbus memory controller.

Click ME!

Edit: 64 Unified shaders.. not the 60 I based my calculations on.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'd bet that even on Direct3D9 and OGL apps, either the driver or the card will automatically reallocate pixel/vertex shader usage similar to what Xenos does right now.
 
Is it just me or there is really no reference what so ever to a release date in the linked article?
 
I think both companies will try their damnest to get new cards out by the holiday season.
 
And whatever happens, I'm sure ATI doesn't want to get caught like last time with the 7800 series out for months before the X18XX series came to market.
 
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