G-Sync First Impressions from TR Forums

[xoleras]

Easy there, ace. There are a ton of good solutions for both tearing and input lag, none perfect, but none require you to spend 200 on adapting a monitor you own, or buying a new one altogether.

And on the second point, that's exactly what I said: I AM going to spend $2000 on GPUs.

Wrong, there is no solution for input lag. If you're using vsync, you have input lag. There's no way to avoid it since frames are being delayed from output, hence, input lag. You are going to spend $2000 on GPUs. And you're still going to get input lag. And you're ignoring the fact that G-sync allows you to up the image quality "for free" even if you have 2000$ in GPUs - since the 30-60 fps range is "smooth" with g-sync, you can potentially add SGSSAA, among other things. Normally, even with 2000$ in GPUs, this will cause stutter. With G-sync? You have more room for error without getting stutter or input lag.

V-sync isn't a solution especially if you're playing any type of FPS competitive game. V-sync would be fine for games designed specifically for a "set" type of hardware as consoles are, developers can have a hardware target and design the game to more or less always be at 60 frames. This of course is not possible with PCs. You're continually dealing with a trade-off between stuttering and input lag. With that being the case, I can't see how anyone could say that g-sync is a gimmick. It's a real benefit for the majority of gamers, IMO, as long as they don't mind the cost of entry. And yeah, getting a g-sync monitor will cost less than throwing another 600$ GPU at the problem as you describe - it's almost like you're stating that you have a problem with paying 200$ for a g-sync monitor. But you don't have a problem buying another 600$ GPU for 60 fps (while still getting input lag)? What sort of cognitive dissonance is this? That doesn't even make sense. You'll throw down 2000$ for GPUs. But 200$ more for a monitor is a no-go. That's what you essentially just stated.

The only issue I see so far with G-sync is getting it into more monitors. I'd love to see this tech in a 1600p or 1440p IPS panel. Nvidia is apparently working on making that happen, so we'll see.

 

[pontiac4life]

I agree, if it works fine at 30FPS and above then that's something I can't wait to get my hands on, even with my setup some of my games will dip below 60fps and as soon as I'm even at 59fps I get the damn stutter. Mostly because I have everything on max with high AA. The ONLY way to stop the stutter is to lower the settings to keep min of 60fps or use adaptive V-Sync and set it to "half refresh rate" which will then be a smooth 30fps, but then I miss out on when my setup can do in between 31fps-60fps

Using a framerate limiter does not stop the stutter because you only have 2 options for smooth non stutter , either exactly half your refresh rate or exactly your refresh rate, anything else will be stutter

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

And you're ignoring the fact that G-sync allows you to up the image quality "for free" even if you have 2000$ in GPUs - since the 30-60 fps range is "smooth" with g-sync, you can potentially add SGSSAA, among other things. Normally, even with 2000$ in GPUs, this will cause stutter. With G-sync? You have more room for error without getting stutter or input lag.

I completely agree.

 

[pontiac4life]

When I use the adaptive v-sync @half refresh rate I get smooth gameplay as in no stutter but I then get added motion blur when panning left and right etc. I wonder if G-Sync will remove the motion blur even at lower fps

 

[PcZac]

I know I'm waiting for G-Sync to buy a new monitor. I was going to get one of the Korean 2650x1440 panels, but G-Sync definitely seems to be worth the wait, and the prices of those monitors will come down as G-Sync rolls out. I don't mind paying $150 premium on a piece of hardware that will last as long as 2 or 3 computers as long as there is some noticeable benefit.

 

[pontiac4life]

The only thing that I don't like are the reviews for this specific monitor, they say it's the worst colors and black level ever from what I keep reading

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

When I use the adaptive v-sync @half refresh rate I get smooth gameplay as in no stutter but I then get added motion blur when panning left and right etc. I wonder if G-Sync will remove the motion blur even at lower fps

I doubt it, literally the only thing that it seems to do is remove that jutter when using vsync when your framerate dips below your display's refresh rate.

I hope that it reduces input lag down to what you'll see when using vsync on a 60hz display with a 59 fps cap.

The only thing that I don't like are the reviews for this specific monitor, they say it's the worst colors and black level ever from what I keep reading

I don't think that its all that bad tbh. Colors may not be the best but this is the first tn that I've ever owned that didn't have issues with banding which is a huge plus. I also don't really see any noticeable backlight bleed. I do get the lines at 144hz though. Thankfully I don't find them bothersome.

 

[xoleras]

The only thing that I don't like are the reviews for this specific monitor, they say it's the worst colors and black level ever from what I keep reading

I'm not a fan of TN monitors, but the VG248 is designed from the ground up as a gaming monitor. For gaming and 3d Vision, it really is a phenomenal screen. If you've never used lightboost before, you're in for a treat the first time you try it for gaming.

That said , I like it (VG248QE) for gaming, but don't like it for productivity tasks. The difference between it and a high quality IPS panel is immediately noticeable when doing productivity tasks within windows. Of course, you can work around that issue by using a dual monitor setup. That's the only drawback I see for g-sync so far. I don't mind the cost - but I would like to see it in a wider selection of monitors, particularly IPS panels.

 

[pontiac4life]

But you can't use lightboost with gsync right?

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Of course you can. All "lightboost" is is 3d vision and that works with gsync. There is also some other mode for 2d iirc.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

But you can't use lightboost with gsync right?

Nope; Lightboost relies on fixed frame-times, which G-Sync varies.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

Nope; Lightboost relies on fixed frame-times, which G-Sync varies.

So, unless I misunderstood, Gsync doesn't do anything for motion blur, which means it will be useless for fast paced gaming.

 

[pontiac4life]

Two different answers, great....lol...

 

[limitedaccess]

Two different answers, great....lol...

Lightboost as it is now won't work.

In theory it could work with a variable strobing rate (likely requiring additional hardware support) to match the variable refresh rate (assuming certain fps criteria are met).

 

[IdiotInCharge]

So, unless I misunderstood, Gsync doesn't do anything for motion blur, which means it will be useless for fast paced gaming.

As it stands with LCD technology, no. LCDs will have to get better, or get replaced with something better, to get rid of what's left of LCD technologies' 'slow' pixel response times.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Nope; Lightboost relies on fixed frame-times, which G-Sync varies.

Gsync works in 3d vision which is the whole point of lightboost.

Some of the lightboost hacks may not work though. Then again ToastyX seems to make everything work somehow.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Gsync works in 3d vision which is the whole point of lightboost.

Some of the lightboost hacks may not work though. Then again ToastyX seems to make everything work somehow.

Please stop making shit up. If you had even a moderate understanding of how this technology worked, you'd understand why implementing G-Sync with Lightboost would be extremely difficult, and thus why it's not going to work anytime soon.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Please stop making shit up. If you had even a moderate understanding of how this technology worked, you'd understand why implementing G-Sync with Lightboost would be extremely difficult, and thus why it's not going to work anytime soon.

Links to back up your claims? You can claim anything that you want on the net. I like to see proof to back it up.

Its a dynamic refresh rate. Explain to me how that wouldn't work. Lightboost (3dvision) is just a strobing backlight that works with and without vsync.

Links or stfu.

I suppose that you also know more about the topic than the owner of blur busters.

Or Nvidia

 

[limitedaccess]

If you want more details regarding this -

http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-includes-a-strobe-backlight-upgrade/

Also see some more details here -

http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/creating-strobe-backlight/#variablerefresh

 

[pontiac4life]

I guess I shouldn't have asked the question because it's gotten out of control....lol...I ask because I don't own the monitor or never experienced lightboost before, if this monitor has lightboost and g-sync between 30fps-144fps at the same time then I want one NOW! That would be awesome to have no motion blur and no stutter between 30fps-144fps

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Links or stfu.

Lightboost was a hack, initially; G-Sync includes official support for it, but does not work at the same time.

Read the link limitedaccess posted above. Mark (who actually posts on a forum that I frequent) discussed the same idea there too- essentially, making Lightboost work with G-Sync is a difficult challenge that isn't surmounted in the current version of G-Sync, and may never will be overcome given that there are a lot of variables involved.

Remember that Lightboost itself is a 'hack' designed to mask slow pixel transitions, and it's not very conducive to quality display output.

 

[xoleras]

I was under the impression that a new updated lightboost would be utilized to use both at the same time? That nvidia was working on something along those lines? I could be wrong though.

IMO, it's really not a big deal. Lightboost is great but lightboost also doesn't address the issues that G-sync addresses. Once you go 30-60 fps with lightboost, it doesn't play smoothly.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

I was under the impression that a new updated lightboost would be utilized to use both at the same time? That nvidia was working on something along those lines? I could be wrong though.

IMO, it's really not a big deal. Lightboost is great but lightboost also doesn't address the issues that G-sync addresses. Once you go 30-60 fps with lightboost, it doesn't play smoothly.

Both have their uses, but Gsync will be useless for competitive gaming since no motion blur is more important than tearing. Might limit the use overall, but we'll see. I will wait for the next generation of Gsync type implementation that will also address the motion blur issues.

 

[xoleras]

I wouldn't expect anyone on the AMD side to embrace G-sync anyway. Just like I wouldn't expect anyone on the NV side to embrace Mantle. The technology is sound and is a great step forward - not just for PCs, but everywhere - the fact that HDTVs and monitors have never been async in terms of framerate is a problem that needs to be solved on a wide scale. This is the first iteration created not by a TV manufacturer, but nvidia. I would like this solved on a wide scale for everything, but alas. Nvidia spent their hard earned R+D on this technology and won't give it away. That's completely understandable. Why spend millions and give it away to your competitors? That would be really stupid.

Anyway, not everyone will be willing to pay the price of entry. It won't be for everyone and certainly isn't meant for everyone, which is fine. And those on the red side for mining purposes will likely stay. Which is cool. That said, I do expect any early issues to be ironed out - one thing I do like about nvidia is that they take a new tech and try to slowly evolve it over time with updates. They're pretty great about updating their software features every couple of months, and i'd expect G-sync to also have issues ironed out fairly quickly. As far as I understand it, nvidia is working on a new version of lightboost specifically for G-sync. I could be wrong though.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

I wouldn't expect anyone on the AMD side to embrace G-sync anyway. The technology is sound and is a great step forward - not just for PCs, but everywhere. But, not everyone will be willing to pay the price of entry. And those on the red side for mining purposes will likely stay. Which is fine by me.

Are you using lightboost right now BTW, curious. Sig indicates you aren't.

No, not currently. The main reason is that I lost interest in gaming for now (way too much in a short span of time). I am also waiting for the next generation of 144hz monitors.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Lightboost was a hack, initially; G-Sync includes official support for it, but does not work at the same time.

Read the link limitedaccess posted above. Mark (who actually posts on a forum that I frequent) discussed the same idea there too- essentially, making Lightboost work with G-Sync is a difficult challenge that isn't surmounted in the current version of G-Sync, and may never will be overcome given that there are a lot of variables involved.

Remember that Lightboost itself is a 'hack' designed to mask slow pixel transitions, and it's not very conducive to quality display output.

Lightboost is just the display sticking in 3d mode while no longer running 3d vision. I've seen it happen by mistake at various times since I first started using 3d vision. The various hacks are just different methods getting that to happen reliably.

Nvidia has outright stated that this will work in 3d since day one.

 

[xoleras]

No, not currently. The main reason is that I lost interest in gaming for now (way too much in a short span of time). I am also waiting for the next generation of 144hz monitors.

Understandable. I didn't mean that with any sort of negative connotation - I get burned out on gaming every now and then and take a few weeks off. It's happened a few times, although I always inevitably come back for more. It's the hobby that I just can't give up on for some reason.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Lightboost is just the display sticking in 3d mode while no longer running 3d vision. I've seen it happen by mistake at various times since I first started using 3d vision. The various hacks are just different methods getting that to happen reliably.

Nvidia has outright stated that this will work in 3d since day one.

There's a good one. Keep up the Lightboost = 3D thing- we're getting a kick out of it.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

There's a good one. Keep up the Lightboost = 3D thing- we're getting a kick out of it.

WTF do you think that lightboost is? You may want to look into how 3d vision monitors work and what the strobe was originally intended to do.

Yes, lightboost = the display in 3d mode. Do you even own a 3d vision display?

I'm sorry, you don't know what you're talking about. Unless you are just a troll.

General
Q: What, exactly, is LightBoost?

LightBoost is a strobe backlight invented by nVidia for 3D Vision to serve three purposes simultaneously:

Blurbusters lightboost faq

Current light boost hacks afaik are just different methods of forcing the display into 3d mode. Unless something has changed recently. If you don't believe me and actually own a display try the hack out and go into the OSD on the display, it'll be in 3d mode.

 

[Unknown-One]

Provisions for switching between fixed refresh rates. Not quite the same thing.

Incorrect. eDP allows the graphics card to instruct the display to hold a static image, and then refresh on-demand (just like G-Sync). The original intent of this feature was to enhance power-saving, as it would allow the graphics chip to go to sleep while the display is static, but it can also be used to instruct a display to hold an image until a new frame is ready to be displayed (just like G-Sync).

This feature of eDP requires the monitor have internal memory (also just like G-Sync) to hold the frame while waiting for further instruction from the graphics card.

Intel has already demonstrated the tech, and they did it well in advance of Nvidia. It's just that Intel is targeting mobile while Nvidia is targeting gamers.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

If you don't believe me and actually own a display try the hack out and go into the OSD on the display, it'll be in 3d mode.

How's that G-Sync display of yours working out? Owning a Lightboost display doesn't make you suddenly an expert on all things that you don't own.

You can have either Lightboost or G-Sync, not both.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

How's that G-Sync display of yours working out? Owning a Lightboost display doesn't make you suddenly an expert on all things that you don't own.

You can have either Lightboost or G-Sync, not both.

Proof?

 

[limitedaccess]

The confusion here might be due to interchanging Lightboost and 3D Vision.

Lightboost was something implemented originally to address certain drawbacks with 3D Vision for 3D gaming. It was "hacked" (so to speak) to work outside 3D gaming for benefits in 2D gaming as well.

Lightboost however is not inherently tied into 3D itself. You can have 3D without lightboost. There are 3D Vision monitors without lightboost for instance. I'm not sure however if Nvidia 3D Vision 2 certification requires lightboost support or not and whether or not there are current monitors without lightboost off the top of my head.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Proof?

Q: Which is better? LightBoost or G-SYNC?

It depends on the game or framerate. As a general rule of thumb:
LightBoost: Better for games that sustain a perfect 120fps @ 120Hz
G-SYNC: Better for games that have lower/fluctuating variable framerates.
This is because G-SYNC eliminates stutters, while LightBoost eliminates motion blur. LightBoost can make stutters easier to see, because there is no motion blur to hide stutters. However, LightBoost looks better when you’re able to do perfect full framerates without variable frame rates.
G-SYNC monitors allows you to choose between G-SYNC and backlight strobing. Currently, it is not possible to do both at the same time, though it is technically feasible in the future.

Is reading hard for you?

 

[xoleras]

Nvidia is working on a solution to combine both, at least this is my impression. In fact, they did state that they are working on driver updates to allow such - I know I read this at a couple of places.

It could be feasible to combine both? Yeah? Even if the initial implementation doesn't. IMO, the games that can maintain a perfect 120 fps 100% of the time are few and far between. Unless you have 2000$ in GPUs. Anything that is variable in framerate, which is the majority of gamers, would benefit more from G-sync. Let's take metro: LL or Crysis 3 on ultra settings. Even with a single GTX 780ti you aren't going to have 120 fps solid. Not even close. Even with 780ti SLI, you probably won't have 120 fps solid, when both games are maxed out. So here's where G-sync comes into play. Variable framerate. Anything that is variable has tearing and stuttering, even with a 120hz screen - and G-sync will remove that. And you also will not have input lag associated with v-sync.

Don't get me wrong. Lightboost is pretty great. Yet, In my mind, this makes G-sync desirable despite the benefits of lightboost. You aren't going to have many truly demanding games that are straight up 120 fps+ all the time. Not unless you're callsign vega and have 4 GTX Titans overclocked in a water loop. Like I said. I'm under the impression that nvidia is working on a way to combine both. Correct me if i'm wrong on this.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

The confusion here might be due to interchanging Lightboost and 3D Vision.

Lightboost was something implemented originally to address certain drawbacks with 3D Vision for 3D gaming. It was "hacked" (so to speak) to work outside 3D gaming for benefits in 2D gaming as well.

Lightboost however is not inherently tied into 3D itself. You can have 3D without lightboost. There are 3D Vision monitors without lightboost for instance. I'm not sure however if Nvidia 3D Vision 2 certification requires lightboost support or not and whether or not there are current monitors without lightboost off the top of my head.

No but the only way to get the monitor to do "lightboost" is to get it into "3d mode" which is not inherently tied to 3d vision. If you want to see what I mean NCX who posts here quite a bit goes over this display and the different settings pretty well in his review. Its a video review and should do a pretty good job describing what I'm talking about.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Is reading hard for you?

It took you a long time to find one quote to back up your claims then you go acting like a douchebag about it. I supposed that you expect people to just take your word for it.

I'm still going to send an email to Mark about this and ask him to expand on this a bit.

I couldn't give a rats ass about 2d lightboost. At the moment it looks like shit. All that I care about is how this works with 3d vision, personally. If that is the case and it doesn't work in 3d I'm sure that there are quite a few 3d vision users like myself that would like to know about it.

It would be nice if you tried to have a civil discussion instead of acting like a douche.

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

Understandable. I didn't mean that with any sort of negative connotation - I get burned out on gaming every now and then and take a few weeks off. It's happened a few times, although I always inevitably come back for more. It's the hobby that I just can't give up on for some reason.

No worries, I didn't take it that way. We aren't fighting in this thread..yet

But yeah, gaming just has it's highs and lows, nothing really interesting has been coming out recently in regards to games. It will make it all the more sweeter when a good game comes out and new technologies have gone through bug fixes and are on the second or third generations. Let's see what Gsync brings to the table and if/when light boost works with it. Maybe someone can even hack Gsync to work with AMD

 

[Deleted whining member 223597]

It took you a long time to find one quote to back up your claims then you go acting like a douchebag about it. I supposed that you expect people to just take your word for it.

I'm still going to send an email to Mark about this and ask him to expand on this a bit.

I couldn't give a rats ass about 2d lightboost. At the moment it looks like shit. All that I care about is how this works with 3d vision, personally. If that is the case and it doesn't work in 3d I'm sure that there are quite a few 3d vision users like myself that would like to know about it.

It would be nice if you tried to have a civil discussion instead of acting like a douche.

Hold on a second, we were all talking about using Gsync and light boost together due to the benefits to gaming in 2D. YOU came in here throwing a bitch fit and telling everyone that it works. Maybe just a simple misunderstanding from everyone here since one was talking about 2D and you about 3D, but don't tell someone else to stfu if you don't actually know either.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

Oh, shit.

The glasses, I'm not sure how those would work at a variable refresh rate. That sucks.

Hold on a second, we were all talking about using Gsync and light boost together due to the benefits to gaming in 2D. YOU came in here throwing a bitch fit and telling everyone that it works. Maybe just a simple misunderstanding from everyone here since one was talking about 2D and you about 3D, but don't tell someone else to stfu if you don't actually know either.

Where did, I say that I knew for sure? I was just asking for proof. Its not like there is a shit ton of info on this tech that hasn't really been released to the public just yet. I don't ever just take random people on the internet for their word, I'm sorry. Shit like this is why I avoid the video card section on this forum. People act like children here.