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Funny Tech Support Call

If intelligence directly correlates to income how come artists, actors, athletes, politicians, marketing gurus, and more all get paid far more than the vast majority of people? If it were truly intelligence correlated should not those people be getting the absolute smallest paychecks? Heck, there was a bit on the news the other day about how the highest paid public worker in the city was a bus driver, pulling in nearly $150,000 a year. As a bus driver. Having a higher intelligence certainly is an advantage towards making more money, but it is hardly the determining correlating factor.
 
blitzkommando said:
If intelligence directly correlates to income how come artists, actors, athletes, politicians, marketing gurus, and more all get paid far more than the vast majority of people? If it were truly intelligence correlated should not those people be getting the absolute smallest paychecks? Heck, there was a bit on the news the other day about how the highest paid public worker in the city was a bus driver, pulling in nearly $150,000 a year. As a bus driver. Having a higher intelligence certainly is an advantage towards making more money, but it is hardly the determining correlating factor.
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What a bloody second. Are you seriously saying that artists, actors, athletes, politicians, and marketing people aren't intelligent?
 
It took me a long time to get my 80 year old uncle to let me password protect his wifi. He just didn't get the need.

I finally had to load up the list of people attached to the router and then ask him to count the number of computers in in house.
 
Derangel said:
What a bloody second. Are you seriously saying that artists, actors, athletes, politicians, and marketing people aren't intelligent?
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I believe what he is saying is that if intelligence was a direct correlation/determining factor in income, then people like Einstein and Stephen Hawking should be making off like oil barons while someone like Jessica Simpson (who once asked, while eating a can of Chicken of the Sea brand of tuna, "I don't know if am I eating chicken or am I eating fish.") should be watching their food stamps bounce.
 
Listening to tech ignorant people just make me feel embarrassed. It's not that I've done those things, it's just that I can't believe that someone is actually like that.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
since.... *forever*? smarter people generally make more than dumber people... been like that forever, and no intelligent person would ever really doubt that....

for anyone that might disagree, google the word outlier
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Which is why you are either the richest person on these forums, OR you are dumber than Paris Hilton. :p
 
Ashbringer said:
I loved the analogy of if you're hungry is it ok to steal food? Hell yes I'm going to steal food. Starve and do the right thing, or steal food? Fuck yes, I'm going to wanna live and steal food.

I loved how the guy went on and on about how someone is going to steal her banking and email information. Honestly, who'd want to take her information? If she's stupid enough to buy a wifi extender, then she obviously doesn't have money.

About 99.999999 times out of 10, nobody has open wifi to steal your personal info. Chances are, they are too lazy to enter in a password. Personally, so am I, but I block by mac address. Had my neighbor who claimed who could get on my router, and I had him try and prove it. He was wrong.
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Well, for starters, MAC addresses can be easily spoofed... Hiding your SSD or enabling MAC address filtering isn't much of a security measure, and I don't understand how you're too lazy to enter a simple 6-character password (once!) but you can be bothered to go into the router setup every time you bring a new device or laptop home and add it's MAC address to the filter list (even if the router can auto-grab it). :p

Anyway, I get what you're saying... It's a security risk, to an extent, chances are slim that you'd actually encounter someone trying to maliciously steal data over an open connection, but it does happen, and it's all about context. In the suburbs it might not be terribly common, but I imagine in a crowded city appartment it's way more common.

Forget about the personal security risks though... There's a much better incentive for people to secure their connections, sadly, bandwith caps. If your neighbor (or his kids, or half a dozen of 'em) is using your WiFi willy nilly chances are good they might incur overage charges on your account by exceeding your monthly bandwith limit. I'd say that's a way more likely scenario that would piss a lot of people off just as well.

It's the example I've started to use anyway, when trying to give neophyte customers a good reason to secure their WiFi.
 
AFAIK WPA2 is way harder to circumvent than a MAC address filter or a hidden SSID (which doesn't even work very well half the time)...
 
J.C. said:
Disagree all you want, but I will use any unsecured access point I find. I do not war-drive, do not try access anything on their LAN, it is simply for internet access. I take the position that if someone does not take any steps to prevent others from using their access point, they are ok with others using it.

I state this because their airwaves are flowing to me. If they were playing music instead, I am not stealing their music. If I sing along to the music and they hear me singing, I am still not stealing their music. I do not consider it remotely like stealing cable tv service by using a splitter because both the person with the unsecured wifi and I, BOTH are paying for broadband. The ISP is not losing any money because there is no way I can pay for each access point everywhere, nor should I need to as I am already paying for an account providing internet access... it is a mere technicality where I am when I use the internet.

Further, I keep an open access point that I don't mind others using. Surely someone will come along and suggest this makes me liable for whatever they do on the internet. OK, but there is such a thing as civil disobedience. I do not agree with laws which penalize the owner of an internet account because of the actions of others, and I do not agree that it is morally wrong to use any open wifi access point.
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You're entitled to your opinion, unfortunately the law disagrees with you on most counts (except for being liable for what someone does with your unsecured connection). Feel free to write to your appointed representative if you feel that strongly about any of it. :rolleyes:
 
I think th e point of setting up a password is not to actually stop someone, but to get them to move on. The folks that drive through neighborhoods are lazy asshats who don't want to work for their money. Thus, if you put a couple of roadblocks in their way, they are much more likely to move down the street and jump on your neighbor's open connection. If someone really wants in, there is no method available that will keep them out... just slow them down. It's the owner's job to put as many obstacles in the way to make it not worth the baddies' time.
 
WPA2 encryption still takes way more than 2 min to break... WEP might be breakable while war driving but not WPA2, AFAIK. It's important to change your router's config password as well btw.
 
Ashbringer said:
My mac address filtering is only meant to keep my neighbors from getting a free ride, and consuming my bandwidth. Someone could go through the trouble to get on my network, but from what I understand encryption isn't going to slow them down by much either.

My mac address filtering slowed them down by a couple of minutes, but the encryption will only buy me another 2 minutes.
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WPA2 with a full key of randomness like awghj9rweh395=h5jjgehia0=e+($#UT(+nmbke[tmn

only attack on WP2 for that is brute force and with a full key it would take YEARS
 
also WEP and WPA1 are totaly broken WEP can be cracked in under 30 sec and WPA1 in a few hours at most

WPA2+AES is the only thing you should be using even better set up a RADIUS server :D
 
Modred189 said:
I think th e point of setting up a password is not to actually stop someone, but to get them to move on. The folks that drive through neighborhoods are lazy asshats who don't want to work for their money. Thus, if you put a couple of roadblocks in their way, they are much more likely to move down the street and jump on your neighbor's open connection. If someone really wants in, there is no method available that will keep them out... just slow them down. It's the owner's job to put as many obstacles in the way to make it not worth the baddies' time.
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Exactly; that's the point of wireless authentication and encryption - deterrence. Nobody's going to bother breaking into a properly secured wireless network - if someone was determined to connect to your network then he'll probably just toss a brick through the window and jack into a wired switch.
 
blitzkommando said:
If intelligence directly correlates to income how come artists, actors, athletes, politicians, marketing gurus, and more all get paid far more than the vast majority of people? If it were truly intelligence correlated should not those people be getting the absolute smallest paychecks? Heck, there was a bit on the news the other day about how the highest paid public worker in the city was a bus driver, pulling in nearly $150,000 a year. As a bus driver. Having a higher intelligence certainly is an advantage towards making more money, but it is hardly the determining correlating factor.
Click to expand...

dammit child, I said to google what an outlier was...

Derangel said:
What a bloody second. Are you seriously saying that artists, actors, athletes, politicians, and marketing people aren't intelligent?
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+1....

SamuraiInBlack said:
I believe what he is saying is that if intelligence was a direct correlation/determining factor in income, then people like Einstein and Stephen Hawking should be making off like oil barons while someone like Jessica Simpson (who once asked, while eating a can of Chicken of the Sea brand of tuna, "I don't know if am I eating chicken or am I eating fish.") should be watching their food stamps bounce.
Click to expand...

once again, outliers, and a basic grasp of economics and statistics would be nice

Ualdayan said:
Which is why you are either the richest person on these forums, OR you are dumber than Paris Hilton. :p
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lol, i'll never tell...

I actually like to think of myself as a young person with middle of the pack intelligence... I'm not stupid, but I'll never really matter to the rest of the world...

But yea, I really, *really* can't believe there are people on this forum that actively think that the more intelligent someone is, the less they'll make, and basing that assumption on the rarest and most unique outliers possible.... I guess its that kind of ignorance that has allowed our electorate to become so gobsmackingly retarded in recent years...
 
Aren't most wireless adapters that come with laptops set to "connect to the first unsecured wireless connection". So, by default the laptop you buy at the store is configured to connect illegally to open wireless networks?
 
shit, I just realized that i've probably been successfully trolled (nobody on this forum is that stupid)....

touche my good sirs......
 
DogChainX said:
Aren't most wireless adapters that come with laptops set to "connect to the first unsecured wireless connection". So, by default the laptop you buy at the store is configured to connect illegally to open wireless networks?
Click to expand...

I've never seen a laptop or wireless adapter that automatically connects to unsecured connections out of the box. They might seek 'em out and present you with a list of possible connections so that you can make your own judgment, but they don't make random automatic connections to anything w/o the user's input. So if anyone's breaking the law it's you, not your computer. ;)

Regardless, it's kind of a grey legal area (as anything that involves technology tends to be), so I wouldn't find it shocking that the default behavior of a router or wireless adapter doesn't actually conform to the letter of the law (which was written before WiFi was even a vague concept in an engineer's mind y'know).
 
The sad reality is the current and last generation (and a half) have grown up with the credo that if you don't get caught stealing then it isn't wrong.

Even the old "stealing from the grocery store" line doesn't really phase digital thieves, because "oh well that is different, digital stuff is not the same as real stuff".

Siphoning wifi is illegal. Downloading copyrighted media is illegal. Cracking trademarked software is illegal. If you are doing these things, then you are wrong, you know you are wrong, and you deserve full punishment under the law and embarassment in full public view of society.
 
hellokeith said:
The sad reality is the current and last generation (and a half) have grown up with the credo that if you don't get caught stealing then it isn't wrong.

Even the old "stealing from the grocery store" line doesn't really phase digital thieves, because "oh well that is different, digital stuff is not the same as real stuff".

Siphoning wifi is illegal. Downloading copyrighted media is illegal. Cracking trademarked software is illegal. If you are doing these things, then you are wrong, you know you are wrong, and you deserve full punishment under the law and embarassment in full public view of society.
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is that I should run open routers and hope someone illegally downloads music while using them. Then when the RIAA tries to extort me I whip out some lawyers on them and sue them for incorrectly assuming it was me when I was nothing but a victim of theft. Sounds good to me! :p
 
say I connect to an open wifi network, how would I be able to view what information is going through it?
 
Impulse said:
I've never seen a laptop or wireless adapter that automatically connects to unsecured connections out of the box. They might seek 'em out and present you with a list of possible connections so that you can make your own judgment, but they don't make random automatic connections to anything w/o the user's input. So if anyone's breaking the law it's you, not your computer. ;)

Regardless, it's kind of a grey legal area (as anything that involves technology tends to be), so I wouldn't find it shocking that the default behavior of a router or wireless adapter doesn't actually conform to the letter of the law (which was written before WiFi was even a vague concept in an engineer's mind y'know).
Click to expand...

Last week I setup my father's new HP laptop. I turned it on, and went through a few HP setup dialogs. I never saw ANY dialog concerning connections, but it connected to a neighbor's 802.11G "linksys" network without any of my inputs. I thought Windows 7 Home Premium does exactly as you described, but not in this case...go figure.

Just because an act is defined as legal/illegal doesn't mean it's a sensible law. But that also doesn't mean you shouldn't follow the laws of the land to suit your own agenda. :D

I know grey areas will always exist with rules, regulations and laws....I just hope the judge who navigates those grey areas aren't of the type of judges i've seen in action in the court rooms. *starting rant* Who all seem to have no ability to "judge" on anything *end rant*
 
DogChainX said:
Last week I setup my father's new HP laptop. I turned it on, and went through a few HP setup dialogs. I never saw ANY dialog concerning connections, but it connected to a neighbor's 802.11G "linksys" network without any of my inputs. I thought Windows 7 Home Premium does exactly as you described, but not in this case...go figure.
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seems like an issue where the person operating the laptop should be required to educate themselves to a reasonable level before operating such equipment...

after all, ignorance of the law is no defense, and with computers becoming more and more a part of everyday life, it seems reasonable that people be held liable for the consequences of their actions
 
DogChainX said:
Aren't most wireless adapters that come with laptops set to "connect to the first unsecured wireless connection". So, by default the laptop you buy at the store is configured to connect illegally to open wireless networks?
Click to expand...

Not at all. Hell, Windows now *warns* you if you try to connect to an open wifi access point and you have to confirm that you really want it to connect.
 
I cant believe Leo dealt with her so nicely. I think that made her feel like what she was doing wasnt wrong. But was pretty funny none the less.
 
I think he either scared the heck out of her (in a good way) or half of it flew over her head and she wasn't even listening halfway into his discussion... :p He laid it all out pretty well for a neophyte to understand tho.
 
Leo actually has always done that, laying it out so people could understand. I love listening to twit, the tech guy not so much, but the ones with dvorak are the best. He cracks me up.
 
I used to get CrankyGeeks or w/e Dvorak's show was called on my TiVo (downloaded directly every week), but TiVo borked all their online services for out-of-state users (and Puerto Rico falls in that grey area apparently) so I stopped getting it... I need to subscribe online and start downloading it to my iPod or something.
 
Its simple. Only make your shit more difficult too hack then your naibors. Youll NEVER be able to stop hackers. Just make things a little big hard for them so they go hack someone else.

Just like camping. You dont need too out run the bear. Only your slowest friend.
 
Derangel said:
I always disable SSID broadcasting and use WPA or WEP when I set up wireless for someone. And damn it someone needs to hire Leo, Patrick Norton, Kevin Rose, and give them their own TV show again.
Click to expand...

You need to read this article from 2005:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=43
The six dumbest ways to secure a wireless LAN

I will give you part:

"SSID hiding: There is no such thing as "SSID hiding". You're only hiding SSID beaconing on the Access Point. There are 4 other mechanisms that also broadcast the SSID over the 2.4 or 5 GHz spectrum. The 4 mechanisms are; probe requests, probe responses, association requests, and re-association requests. Essentially, youre talking about hiding 1 of 5 SSID broadcast mechanisms. Nothing is hidden and all youve achieved is cause problems for Wi-Fi roaming when a client jumps from AP to AP. Hidden SSIDs also makes wireless LANs less user friendly. You dont need to take my word for it. Just ask Robert Moskowitz who is the Senior Technical Director of ICSA Labs in his white paper Debunking the myth of SSID hiding."

Oh, and WEP can be cracked in about 2 minutes so I wouldn't use that anymore.
 
Gibbage said:
Its simple. Only make your shit more difficult too hack then your naibors. Youll NEVER be able to stop hackers. Just make things a little big hard for them so they go hack someone else.

Just like camping. You dont need too out run the bear. Only your slowest friend.
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that was good!!!!! i think pretty much everybody uses other people's wireless.

unbelievable that you can get arrested!!!!!
 
I would pay money to smash her in the face with the "wireless extender" she "bought".

I mean if you don't secure your wifi, it's your own fault if people make use of it, it's like living in a glass house and then expecting privacy.

But more over this bitch should be steralized and drug through a pile of dirty needles and rusty razors.
 
I remember watching Leo Laporte's 'Screen Savers' shows pretty religiously back in the day, it's nice to see that he still has a show. And, the guy's never looked healthier, really slimmed down or something.
 
Leo Laporte is great!

He's been doing this kind of thing for over 20 years. I used to watch him on TechTV. Now he's started up his own webcasting service called twit.tv. What you were watching was a clip from Twit live which lets you peek at Leo and friends as they record their podcasts for twit.tv.

It was actually a good example of a tech support call though. There are a lot of clueless people out there but they're not all evil bastards. The lady genuinely didn't know any better.

:cool:
 
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