Fun with ubuntu.

LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
I want to see you type it. No insinuating, no cute metaphor with a dozen elipses after it, no beating around the bush.

I want to see you post "If you leave a completely patched Windows box unattended for more than forty-eight hours, it will become infected and start spreading viruses, joining a botnet, or be put to otherwise nefarious uses." or something really close to it.

If that's really what you believe, come out and say it.
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OK, I believe I can settle this right here, right now:

I have a bigger dick than anybody else here.

Seriously, guys - can we stop waving them around like schoolchildren? Anybody with half a brain can see the flaws in both arguments, and it's getting boring now.

I'm sure there was a point to this thread, once upon a time.
 
back on topic, i installed ubuntu on dad's laptop (he lent it to me cause he totally f*cked his XP installation) and i really like it so far. I'm typing this from ubuntu, everything runs great and am really impressed at how smooth compiz fusion is on the intel gfx (dont know about how it affects the batter life though). My only complaint is that i cant set cpu and wireless power profiles for battery and ac and that the os cant control the lcd brightness. otherwise, this is one kickass os . I was a total linux noob (aside from playing with some disrtos for a couple of days) but the ubuntu forums are great and the people in irc were very helpful as well.

as for windows, i cant help but laugh at the people who dont update their os and dont run any security software. my dad is such a person, every time see a "update available" popup from he clicks it off regardless of what it is and he comes to me with a totally fubar XP installation. sure there are people who manage to stay secure but they are few and should considers themselves lucky. when install windows i dont even plug in the ethenet cable or install any wireless drivers until i have all the service packs/updates, comodo firewall, anti-virus/spyware, and hips suck as threatfire installed, i cant even remember when i last found maleware on any of my computers and i'm not too careful about what sites i go to either. also using a virtual sandbox type app such as sandboxie or defensewall (better but no x64 version yet) is a VERY good idea and it will make your pc virtually immune to most maleware.
 
Shiznit

What type of laptop are you running? I couldn't control the brightness either, unless I was in Totem or something. Then again I have all my shortcut keys working on my dell c500 so its not a big deal for me. I will say that depending on your wifi card..the ubuntu forums has a decent howto on various wifi cards to enable powersaving modes. Maybe you should poke around some there.
 
Acer 9410, when I add the brighness plugin to the bar it says "cannot get laptop panel brightness". I dont mind doing it with the keyboard, but in Windows in can be done in software through the acer power service, hopefully 7.10 will fix it.
 
duby229 said:
If you think it is so ludicrous, and ridiculous, then take up the challenge. Take any PC, with ANy hardware, and configure it however you wish. Once its configured and updated, with any software that you want, leave it alone for three days connected to the internet.... Then prove to us that it isnt massively infected..... Go ahead.
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I've been there, done that. I read your previous posts and I'll agree that this happens on pre-Vista machines. I've seen it happen, as in I told someone to disable his ethernet connection before patching (using downloaded files from autopatcher).

Using Vista (always fully patched), I've left my machine wide open on my DSL modems' DMZ for weeks at a time with the only protection being Vista's firewall (modified by using configuration pane) and UAC. I did that often when i didnt want to share files with my roommates and to feign ignorance, "I set up sharing SEE, but its not working" was usually my excuse.

Putting my system back behind a hardware firewall, i saw no abnormal traffic using ethereal. I was eventually nagged into using AVG, and Spybot. After scanning, guess what these programs found? Nothing. And I won't lie and say OMG i NEVER look at pr0n. Of course I do.

I'm back behind my modem's firewall now, again after being nagged by doomsday scenarios. Looking at my bank account i still have the same amount of money. Tinfoil hat off.

I'm also dualbooting Fiesty Fiesta on the same system. PITA to get the GTX properly configured. Yes, it's nice now but still, a PITA to get it working correctly and definitely not what a regular Windows user would be capable of. Also, on my T40, the USB ports worked exactly ONE TIME after install. How they even worked is a mystery because its a known issue and of course i found this out after the fact. I had to look for a solution which equates to turning off USB, turning it back on, but being stuck at USB 1.1 speeds. Fun times indeed.

For all the doomsday people out there: I usually do run a software firewall. The problem is that all of the current free Vista firewalls are terrible and most of the commercial FW's are bloated jack-of-all-trades apps. The last seemingly good FW that i tried was Outpost. I love the block list features, but i had to temporarily uninstall it as for once i had to share files and Outpost was not being cooperative. I'll try it again soon.
 
shiznit said:
Acer 9410, when I add the brighness plugin to the bar it says "cannot get laptop panel brightness". I dont mind doing it with the keyboard, but in Windows in can be done in software through the acer power service, hopefully 7.10 will fix it.
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I hear ya on that. That said I find that in general Laptop support seems to lag a bit, and varies depending on the manufacturer. Certainly having a dell is a boost..as they are very Ubuntu friendly..seeing how they will sell you a laptop preloaded. I would wait until 8.4 though. I am running 7.1 right now..and am still missing some stuff (wifi LED I know a rather unelegant hack...but why bother) and I still am getting the HD parking issue even though I am running the newest kernel available. I haven't found 7.1 a big change so far..rather small improvements than a revolution.
 
KENNYB said:
For all the doomsday people out there: I usually do run a software firewall. The problem is that all of the current free Vista firewalls are terrible and most of the commercial FW's are bloated jack-of-all-trades apps. The last seemingly good FW that i tried was Outpost. I love the block list features, but i had to temporarily uninstall it as for once i had to share files and Outpost was not being cooperative. I'll try it again soon.
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Comodo is the best software firewall you can get imo and it's free and light weight. Get 3.0.9.229 beta, works great in vista x86 or x64. The new proactive defense feature is really powerful but probably overkill and you can tone it down or disable to minimize popups.
 
shiznit said:
Comodo is the best software firewall you can get imo and it's free and light weight. Get 3.0.9.229 beta, works great in vista x86 or x64. The new proactive defense feature is really powerful but probably overkill and you can tone it down or disable to minimize popups.
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I did check out Comodo, but I didn't see any links to a vista version. They will email you when a Vista-compatible version is available.
 
KENNYB said:
For all the doomsday people out there: I usually do run a software firewall. The problem is that all of the current free Vista firewalls are terrible and most of the commercial FW's are bloated jack-of-all-trades apps. The last seemingly good FW that i tried was Outpost. I love the block list features, but i had to temporarily uninstall it as for once i had to share files and Outpost was not being cooperative. I'll try it again soon.
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Everybody is certainly entitled to there opinion. But until somebody takes up the challenge that I've offered it is all just small talk. It's all BS and leg pulling.

All I've said is take a Windows machine put it on a network witgh internet access.. Provide any king of protection that you see fit. Update it as you see fit.... Then leave it sit idle for three days.... Then prove that it is not infected. I'm still waiting for someone to take up that challenge...
 
duby229 said:
Everybody is certainly entitled to there opinion. But until somebody takes up the challenge that I've offered it is all just small talk. It's all BS and leg pulling.

All I've said is take a Windows machine put it on a network witgh internet access.. Provide any king of protection that you see fit. Update it as you see fit.... Then leave it sit idle for three days.... Then prove that it is not infected. I'm still waiting for someone to take up that challenge...
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Hopefully no one gets to literal with your challenge. I can see a couple ways to win that. Put a ME box together..I mean whats the chances of that running for 3 hours let alone 3 days? :D
 
Ghettobox said:
Hopefully no one gets to literal with your challenge. I can see a couple ways to win that. Put a ME box together..I mean whats the chances of that running for 3 hours let alone 3 days? :D
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They can feel free to take any version of windows they want, with any configuration they want. Any Firewall, any malware scanner. Anything. They can be as literal as they want. I'd then like to see them prove the box isnt infected.
 
duby229 said:
They can feel free to take any version of windows they want, with any configuration they want. Any Firewall, any malware scanner. Anything. They can be as literal as they want. I'd then like to see them prove the box isnt infected.
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how do you prove that it is then? I still think that a properly configured windows can pass your three day test, a good windows user can avoid the malware, however lets face it 99% of people who use computer dont follow safe practices.
 
duby229 said:
They can feel free to take any version of windows they want, with any configuration they want. Any Firewall, any malware scanner. Anything. They can be as literal as they want. I'd then like to see them prove the box isnt infected.
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I did, and you ignored it, remember? Post 79. ;)
 
As I Lay Dying said:
how do you prove that it is then? I still think that a properly configured windows can pass your three day test, a good windows user can avoid the malware, however lets face it 99% of people who use computer dont follow safe practices.
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There are a lot of people that may believe thats true. However, they are wrong. Unless if they can prove that there computer is not infected, until then it is nothing more then an opinion they hold, or for lack of a better word "superstition"

For arguments sake we'll just call it the "My Windows is not infected" myth.....

Myth? Yep that's what it is....

2. A person or thing existing only in imagination, or whose
actual existence is not verifiable.
[1913 Webster]
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This the definition of a trojan....

3. (Computers) A computer program designed to evade the
security precautions within a computer system and perform
illicit operations, or to do malicious damage, and often
designed to look like a different kind of program, such as
a game, archiver, or directory lister. This term is not
applied to a program that replicates itself, such as a
virus.
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I especially like the second definition given....

2. Hence, any thing or person which appears harmless but is
designed to destroy or attack from within. It may
sometimes refer to a group; -- see also fifth column.
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This here proves that Windows update is IN FACT a trojan.
http://windowssecrets.com/2007/09/27/03-Stealth-Windows-update-prevents-XP-repair

WoW!! I mean that right there fits the definition perfectly. I can get into the WGA... I can get into IE... I can get into SMB.... But all you really need to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that your computer and every other computer that runs a MS OS are in --fact-- infected with malware is right there in that one single link....
 
duby229 said:
Everybody is certainly entitled to there opinion. But until somebody takes up the challenge that I've offered it is all just small talk. It's all BS and leg pulling.

All I've said is take a Windows machine put it on a network witgh internet access.. Provide any king of protection that you see fit. Update it as you see fit.... Then leave it sit idle for three days.... Then prove that it is not infected. I'm still waiting for someone to take up that challenge...
Click to expand...

I'll take up that challenge. I'd have to do a clean install first, but come next weekend, I'll be ready. What kind of proof do you want?

But... your whole argument is... let's just say illogical. Proof: Prove that unicorns don't exist.
 
KENNYB said:
I'll take up that challenge. I'd have to do a clean install first, but come next weekend, I'll be ready. What kind of proof do you want?

But... your whole argument is... let's just say illogical. Proof: Prove that unicorns don't exist.
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Ah... It's too late, I already let the cat out of the bag. I wouldve let you run all your tests, and have post your results, then Id've proven that although your results dont show malware, the malware is built into the OS. Windows update is a trojan. IE is a common backdoor. SMB is a FS finger. And then of course there is WGA that we are all so familiar with....

MS OS are all so full of malware straight out the box that you dont need third party infections.
 
duby229 said:
This the definition of a trojan....



I especially like the second definition given....



This here proves that Windows update is IN FACT a trojan.
http://windowssecrets.com/2007/09/27/03-Stealth-Windows-update-prevents-XP-repair

WoW!! I mean that right there fits the definition perfectly. I can get into the WGA... I can get into IE... I can get into SMB.... But all you really need to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that your computer and every other computer that runs a MS OS are in --fact-- infected with malware is right there in that one single link....
Click to expand...

Stretching it a bit, don't you think? Although I'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that would actually want MS to perform silent installs, I doubt that MS actually wants to "destroy or attack" a user's system. Loosen the straps on that tinfoil hat.
 
KENNYB said:
Stretching it a bit, don't you think? Although I'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that would actually want MS to perform silent installs, I doubt that MS actually wants to "destroy or attack" a user's system. Loosen the straps on that tinfoil hat.
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You can call it what you want, but it is what it is... In this instance Windows Update is in fact a trojan. I can also show beyond a doubt where IE is used as a backdoor. Or where SMB is used as a filesystem finger. Or even where system software, and hardware configurations can be spoofed from WGA.

All of this is malware that MS actively leverages against you. Is it fair to say "destroy or attack"? That would be a resounding YES..
 
duby229 said:
You can call it what you want, but it is what it is... In this instance Windows Update is in fact a trojan. I can also show beyond a doubt where IE is used as a backdoor. Or where SMB is used as a filesystem finger. Or even where system software, and hardware configurations can be spoofed from WGA.

All of this is malware that MS actively leverages against you.
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Nice way to change the topic. You went from daring anyone to prove that their system wouldn't be "massively" infected to OMG, WGA is SATAN. People in the know, regardless of tinfoil hats, have suspected that Windows has a NSA back door. Welcome to .... 1999?

ReubenRose,
Having to edit a file to configure my trackpad (to turn off tapping), was another fun exercise.
 
KENNYB said:
I didn't mention that yes, i did find a beta version, but i don't want to use a beta. I've used enough beta software in my life that I can wait for a release.
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i give up, Comodo beta is better than any other fully released and paid for firewall but i guess you'll never know.
 
duby229 said:
This here proves that Windows update is IN FACT a trojan.
http://windowssecrets.com/2007/09/27/03-Stealth-Windows-update-prevents-XP-repair

WoW!! I mean that right there fits the definition perfectly. I can get into the WGA... I can get into IE... I can get into SMB.... But all you really need to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that your computer and every other computer that runs a MS OS are in --fact-- infected with malware is right there in that one single link....
Click to expand...

OK here's the problem with your argument: Can you prove that MS actually designed Windows Update "to destroy or attack from within"?. That problem could just be another OS bug. And do remember that all OSes have bugs, even Linux.

And duby229, now you're just being childish. Two people (KENNYB & InorganicMatter) have already stated that they want to take up your challenge yet you're ignoring them or dismissing them out of hand. While you may consider Windows Update to be a trojan, others logically don't. So give those two people the benefit of the doubt, show or tell them how to prove whether or not their system is infected and see what happens.

What's the worst that can happen? You can get proven wrong? So what?

Oh and just to get things back on topic:

One of the hardest thing I've tried to do in Ubuntu is use my TV as my primary display. Haven't been able to figure that out yet. GeeXbox and Sabayon Linux can easily detect and use my TV as my primary screen but not ubuntu, no matter how matter times I tinker with the xorg.conf. At least setting up the wireless card was easy.

Still though, the TV display does hinder my efforst to turn my Linux rig into a MythTV box.
 
KENNYB said:
Nice way to change the topic. You went from daring anyone to prove that their system wouldn't be "massively" infected to OMG, WGA is SATAN. People in the know, regardless of tinfoil hats, have suspected that Windows has a NSA back door. Welcome to .... 1999?
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OK, then prove to me that its not massively infected... I just proved that it is... So in the face of facts, what do you have that shows your not?
 
Danny Bui said:
OK here's the problem with your argument: Can you prove that MS actually designed Windows Update "to destroy or attack from within"?. That problem could just be another OS bug. And do remember that all OSes have bugs, even Linux.

And duby229, now you're just being childish. Two people (KENNYB & InorganicMatter) have already stated that they want to take up your challenge yet you're ignoring them or dismissing them out of hand. While you may consider Windows Update to be a trojan, others logically don't. So give those two people the benefit of the doubt, show or tell them how to prove whether or not their system is infected and see what happens.

What's the worst that can happen? You can get proven wrong? So what?

Oh and just to get things back on topic:
Click to expand...

How can I get proven wrong? Windows Update --is-- a trojan. You have windows update on your computer. You have a trojan on your computer. Your computer is infected....

1+1=2
Now as I said, if you want to try and prove that your computer is not infected, then please take up the challenge. But the only way to prove that is to prove that Windows Update is not a trojan. You have to prove that IE is not a backdoor. You have to prove that SMB is not a filesystem finger. You have to prove that WGA is not a data miner....

So if you are so confident that you can prove that Windows is not massively infected by malware, then please take up challenge and do so.
 
duby229 said:
OK, then prove to me that its not massively infected... I just proved that it is... So in the face of facts, what do you have that shows your not?
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What kind of proof are you looking for? Tell us how we can prove to you that after days on the net, a system will be massively infected? Provide a rubric.

Also, your proof that Windows update is a trojan is thin at best. You have not shown that Windows Update was DESIGNED "to destroy or attack from within." According to the second definition that you provided, a trojan must be DESIGNED "to destroy or attack from within."

So while hackers and others have been able to attack your PC via Windows Update and IE, it does not mean that they were DESIGNED to do so. Windows Update and IE are flawed, yes but trojans? No. Show us some evidence that MS actually designed Windows Update to be a trojan. That is, show us that it was MS' intent to destroy people's systems from within.
 
duby229 said:
OK, then prove to me that its not massively infected... I just proved that it is... So in the face of facts, what do you have that shows your not?
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The only thing you proved is that MS included a trojan that at the very least is used to update WGA. What other functions it serves is debatable. Name one court case where the MS backdoor was used.

Proving that a system isn't infected is impossible. Refer to my unicorn proof as to why that's the case. Without actual proof that my system is infected, my system is not "massive" infected.

I've been laughing at your whole argument for 3 pages now. Did you honestly expect anyone to fall into that trap?
 
shiznit said:
i give up, Comodo beta is better than any other fully released and paid for firewall but i guess you'll never know.
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Did you read my reply? I said i will wait for a release. It's coming soon and since I've had zero problems so far, I can wait. When a person uses their system for actual work, they don't take the chance of using beta software. Like i said, I can wait the extra month for the official release.

More fun with Ubuntu: CRTL+ALT and click and drag. Looks cool but I've never found a use for this.
 
Danny Bui said:
What kind of proof are you looking for? Tell us how we can prove to you that after days on the net, a system will be massively infected? Provide a rubric.

Also, your proof that Windows update is a trojan is thin at best. You have not shown that Windows Update was DESIGNED "to destroy or attack from within." According to the second definition that you provided, a trojan must be DESIGNED "to destroy or attack from within."

So while hackers and others have been able to attack your PC via Windows Update and IE, it does not mean that they were DESIGNED to do so. Windows Update and IE are flawed, yes but trojans? No. Show us some evidence that MS actually designed Windows Update to be a trojan. That is, show us that it was MS' intent to destroy people's systems from within.
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All provided handily from the link I gave.Did you read it? It was MS that updated files without the users permission, or even without registering them. That action broke the system --as it was designed to--

It was designed to update the files without the users knowledge. It was designed so that it didnt register the updated files. It was designed to be a trojan.
 
duby229 said:
All provided handily from the link I gave.Did you read it? It was MS that updated files without the users permission, or even without registering them. That action broke the system --as it was designed to--

It was designed to update the files without the users knowledge. It was designed so that it didnt register the updated files. It was designed to be a trojan.
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Was it designed to "to destroy or attack from within" as stated in the second definition you provided? Was it? It was designed to update and not register the updated files without the user consent but I do not see the intent to destory, harm, or attack the system from within. Yes repaired systems could no longer update but can you prove that MS actually wanted and intended that to happen? According to MS, secret Windows updates have occurred for several years now. This latest problem with Windows Update could just be another bug in the already long list of bugs for MS OSes.

Yes, Windows update could be classified as a trojan by your first definition sans the malicious damage part. However, by your second definition, Windows update cannot be classified as a trojan.
 
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