Fun with ubuntu.

[Verge]

oh common. you have to just be trolling now. There's no way you can think that running everything unpatched is a good thing. There are ways this junk gets around routers and firewalls. With the scenario of your uber router protecting you it would just take putting a machine that wasnt under your control for its entire life onto your network. Could easily happen with having a friend over to lan party, classmates over to study, family comes to visit, or even when you're b0rking around with your router and goof up the security.
This very thing happened a lot when blaster first went out. Companies and Universities responded quickly, blocking it at the edge firewall. Then a worker drone from sector 7G, shows up to work after stoping by starbucks to have a late and checks cnn on his laptop . Bam, crap is behind the firewall and IT people have to stay late. grumpy times.

But enjoy your network. Try not to play with others.

I never said it was a good thing... you accuse me of trolling, and now you are falsely making blind assumptions. Have you even read my posts ? I guess you severely missed the entire point i'm trying to make here. If you aren't a moron, you can run windows virus free with very little effort. Unfortunately some people like duby are forced to share their computers with their 13 year old sisters, who constantly infect them with myspace adware.... now he has bad feelings towards windows making him go on blind crusades in order to sway the masses opinions. Well, it isn't true, and there are thousands of people who aren't morons, and who can easily testify to this. I'm not sure what thread you are reading, or where you are drawing your conclusions.


As for your example, not sure why IT people would be staying late, the patch that fixed blaster was released months before blaster ever hit... were they doing their job....

 

[Frobozz]

I never said it was a good thing... you accuse me of trolling, and now you are falsely making blind assumptions. Have you even read my posts ? I guess you severely missed the entire point i'm trying to make here. If you aren't a moron, you can run windows virus free with very little effort. Unfortunately some people like duby are forced to share their computers with their 13 year old sisters, who constantly infect them with myspace adware.... now he has bad feelings towards windows making him go on blind crusades in order to sway the masses opinions. Well, it isn't true, and there are thousands of people who aren't morons, and who can easily testify to this. I'm not sure what thread you are reading, or where you are drawing your conclusions.


As for your example, not sure why IT people would be staying late, the patch that fixed blaster was released months before blaster ever hit... were they doing their job....

I formed the idea that you thought that running un-patched was a good thing back on post #26 with the strong assertions and use of caps. I agree with your point that you can keep windows virus free with little effort, but I disagree that running with no-patches helps with reaching & maintaining that idea in anyway.

And the 13 y/o sister is a force to be reckoned with. Best of luck to most any OS.

 

[Whatsisname]

yes, there have been numerous exploits for IE that allows software to install itself without asking the user.

...

so... now all of a sudden you can get a virus from just looking at a webpage? come on... somebody enabled some sort of activex or something to get compromised...

 

[ReubenRosa]

so it happens from time to time I compair notes with fellow techs. and share tools and ideas. so one day after being away on vacation for about a month I am talking to my fellow tech and he says he has all the latest tools I use up to date on his pen drive. so I proceed to copy the contents to my own. I proceed to go on my merry way. well a few days later I notice my pc began to act up. A process began to appear. http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-062310-0921-99&tabid=2

That low threat little trojan friggin caused my machine to slow down but worst off all it made me realize my fellow techs pen drive was infected and I had to back track and clear out his pen drives.. our tech bench pc and repair all systems we had worked on to make sure they were all clean.

And all I did was plug in a pen drive and got infected. No internet access required.

 

[Verge]

I formed the idea that you thought that running un-patched was a good thing back on post #26 with the strong assertions and use of caps. I agree with your point that you can keep windows virus free with little effort, but I disagree that running with no-patches helps with reaching & maintaining that idea in anyway.

And the 13 y/o sister is a force to be reckoned with. Best of luck to most any OS.

no man, i don't condone running unpatched software... i just do on that one computer, cause i've yet to see the need. We wsus frequently here as a result of something like blaster/sasser, i was working at bestbuy at the time, i saw the chaos, and laughed at everybody as we charged them 60 dollars for not patching their software months in advance. Oh well, guess maybe they learned their lesson. The mac fanboyism is just extremely annoying these days... "windows will get a virus after 3 days of being on the internet".... that comment was completely ludicrous.

p.s. i wish i was typing this in ubuntu right now actually, the spell checker is so nice

 

[ReubenRosa]

Yeah so far so good with ubuntu no crashes so far. thank god for it. while currently restoring an older compaq laptop after installing service pack2 I am patiently waiting for this old celeron laptop to install the rest of the latest xp updates.
should be done in like 30 minutes.

they got a great connection here downloads are going as high as 800kbs a sec.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

I don't care what OS you use, not staying up to date with security patches is french frying when you should pizza. I have seen linux, osx, and especially windows get hit with exploits from not being up to date. Also to the guys who think that running windows without any form of protection is a good idea remember now a days viruses are more subtle, most viruses wont but an annoying pinwheel in the middle of your screen, viruses now like to turn your machine into a zombie.

 

[Verge]

I don't care what OS you use, not staying up to date with security patches is french frying when you should pizza. I have seen linux, osx, and especially windows get hit with exploits from not being up to date. Also to the guys who think that running windows without any form of protection is a good idea remember now a days viruses are more subtle, most viruses wont but an annoying pinwheel in the middle of your screen, viruses now like to turn your machine into a zombie.

True, but a fast majority of the patches i see are vulnerabilities(especially in IE) that require the user to execute a script or remote patch of code.... if you don't execute, you are virus free.... basically making it not really a virus at all. Using opera only, and webmail, makes all these threats pretty much nonexistant. There are opera exploits out there, but who wastes time trying to leverage those.... nobody runs opera anymore... not sure why.


once again, ubuntu spell checker would rock right now... as well as multiple desktops

 

[Spaceninja]

I <3 Spyware....... made a ton of money off of that stuff. I almost miss the computer tech business.

I have Win Xp on one machine in the house, I have too many years worth of financial data to move to another app. If I didn't have stocks and other investments I might mess with it. Other than that one machine everything else in the house is running Ubuntu. Other than when I go to mess with something (Old Compaq Deskpro) it runs great. When I get something working correctly on it, I then will follow the same steps to get it working on my notebook. Unless I messed with something I have never had Ubuntu, or any other Linux distro mess up on me.

I have had Windows get some random reg prob and crap out. Or have it decided that it didn't like a perfectly good stick of ram. Yes the ram and motherboard were fine. XP just didn't like it.

 

[Dangman]

p.s. i wish i was typing this in ubuntu right now actually, the spell checker is so nice

Firefox does have a built-in spell checker, not matter what OS it is on I believe. Assuming that you are using Firefox as your main web browser.

 

[Eva_Unit_0]

pretty much all of my windows machines don't have thier updates, don't have a virus scanner, or an ad blocker... and they run beautifully... only a firewall [hardware... ipcop] between them and the internets...

its called safe surfing... and some people really need to learn how


now wheres my cookie

lol you do realize that ipcop is linux based, right? Basically you just said that your windows boxes are safe because you have a linux firewall to protect them.

 

[InorganicMatter]

lol you do realize that ipcop is linux based, right? Basically you just said that your windows boxes are safe because you have a linux firewall to protect them.

Please, every embedded network device on planet earth is powered by Linux in one way or another. Your Netgear\Linksys\Dlink firewall is probably Linux-based as well.

 

[duby229]

Please, every embedded network device on planet earth is powered by Linux in one way or another. Your Netgear\Linksys\Dlink firewall is probably Linux-based as well.

Prolly more likely a licensed proprietary version of xenix Or in Linksys case, CiOS.

 

[goodcooper]

lol you do realize that ipcop is linux based, right? Basically you just said that your windows boxes are safe because you have a linux firewall to protect them.

lol yup


i'm not dissing linux here, i'm an avid user of linux and OSX and am quite good with both OSes, but don't go saying that any windows machine WHEN LEFT ALONE is going to be full of spyware in ANY amount of time no matter what...


because that is what was said...

Verge is absolutely right... its ludicrous... ridiculous


and anybody who has had a fresh load of windows xp crash on them without absolutely any 3rd party applications or drivers is dealing with faulty hardware... windows in itself is solid... the way it deals with 3rd party apps and drivers (sometimes very very badly) is what should be attacked... easy enough... linux has the same problem (less so than it used to) and OSX is so closed that we couldn't tell if it does or not (for anybody who's been inside OSX and taken it apart, they know its just the same)

now stop with the vehement defense of software (no matter what!) intended for totally different purposes

 

[duby229]

lol yup


i'm not dissing linux here, i'm an avid user of linux and OSX and am quite good with both OSes, but don't go saying that any windows machine WHEN LEFT ALONE is going to be full of spyware in ANY amount of time no matter what...


because that is what was said...

Verge is absolutely right... its ludicrous... ridiculous


and anybody who has had a fresh load of windows xp crash on them without absolutely any 3rd party applications or drivers is dealing with faulty hardware... windows in itself is solid... the way it deals with 3rd party apps and drivers (sometimes very very badly) is what should be attacked... easy enough... linux has the same problem (less so than it used to) and OSX is so closed that we couldn't tell if it does or not (for anybody who's been inside OSX and taken it apart, they know its just the same)

now stop with the vehement defense of software (no matter what!) intended for totally different purposes

If you think it is so ludicrous, and ridiculous, then take up the challenge. Take any PC, with ANy hardware, and configure it however you wish. Once its configured and updated, with any software that you want, leave it alone for three days connected to the internet.... Then prove to us that it isnt massively infected..... Go ahead.

 

[Ghettobox]

I've got to say a couple of things. My JOB is computer security. I don't want to plug anything..but lets say I have intimate knowledge of windows/Linux/BSD and their security and how it applies to business and commerce. Not surfing for porn, or gathering wallpapers and icons. You know..real work.It's my job to find these things. I live on the bleeding edge of security. I have seen and found things you can't possibly believe.

Windows in simply the way it is designed is insecure. Period. Before making blanket statements about the security of any windows install..do yourself a favor and do a little research at OSdesign 101. Any system that runs root by DEFAULT is already compromised. Now..one can argue that Unix/Linux/BSD style "root/winner takes all" security model is dated, and maybe not ideal. Or why its even necessary to have a filesystem. But it's immeasurably more secure than any OS that defaults to root login. Sure you can insulate yourself to some degree from malware, viri etc. At best your missing out by running a notoriously WEAK OS. If you don't mind being hamstrung by your OS, by all means peck away at your DOS box.

Maybe you do have a box running default XP pre SP1 with zero malware. Seems plausible enough to me...unadvised but plausible. That said..any argument for running said system is at best weak, at face value borderline silly. I won't get into the list of available ways to burn your OS to the ground..if you run a "secure" windows install you know them. You "know" what sites you can and can't go to..or at least you hope you do. Of course the list of sites can change hourly, and that doesn't take into account a serious crack of your ISP, a exploit available from a piece of hardware you own, or a new Zero day exploit. Then again not running any AV/Spyware/Firewall on a rottenly designed OS, you'll never know will you? Unless of course your a jedi master of the registry, and can read the inner most workings of your MBR/HD/firmware/drivers and their code somehow.

I'm not saying Linux isn't without weakness. Or that you do have a virus/malware (which it likely has) or your box is a zombie/honeypot (which it likely is) or that you don't have a decent firewall. I'm sure you do. You are the exception..not the rule though. And that is a fact. While in a perfect world everyone would know there way around like you purport to. Fact is that ain't the real world though. So patches, AV and such are a necessity. Unless you run an OS that isn't so weak,poorly designed, and badly implemented. Then again you own the only bulletproogf windows box on earth..minus a single patch, upgrade, or SP. So why bother?

Ghettobox

PS..wanna PM me your IP? I'll send ya mine to my openBSD laptop.

 

[meinzorn]

You know.. Comparing windows and linux side by side. I do the exact same web browsing on both operating systems, I play the same games on both operating systems, I do the same web development on both operating systems and guess which one I have more problems with.

Windows.

I do nothing differently on either system and Linux works better.

 

[goodcooper]

If you think it is so ludicrous, and ridiculous, then take up the challenge. Take any PC, with ANy hardware, and configure it however you wish. Once its configured and updated, with any software that you want, leave it alone for three days connected to the internet.... Then prove to us that it isnt massively infected..... Go ahead.

i just said, i do it ALL the time... tell me what i need to do to appease you... what would be sufficient proof, and i'll do it...

 

[As I Lay Dying]

sudo rm -rf /thisthread

 

[ReubenRosa]

Run Dr.web cure-it and let it do a full scann of your hard drive.
Its a fantastic stand-alone scanner. and after it finishes scanning show us the results.

 

[markt435]

@markt435
Linux is just different, its NOT hard!. infact the desktop (GNOME or KDE) is alot easier to use then 2k,XP or Vista (wife has a windows laptop but prefers my GNOME desktop and want me to put linux on her machine).
With a fully setup system and configured the way you want it is alot better then anything MS has to offer, BUT it can be a pain to get it to such a state (one of the downsides of too many options )
take a week and just use linux, choose a week where you don't need windows-specific things (games, MS-apps...) and just use it for email,web,chatting....

i actually had a nice setup going before i tried to mess with compiz. its like aero...you know, completely useless but nice to look at. seriously i could throw windows around the screen all day if i was bored enough. i guess the cube is nice to use but i don't think it helps with productivity much does it? i'd be messing with that like the window effects. but yeah, i don't see compiz in my future. beryl runs kinda crappy so forget that one too.

as for which desktop is easier to use...for me, its windows. mainly because i know it like the back of my hand...lol. bias i know but eh.

btw i was gonna ask...does everyone hate gnome or something? i've noticed on the ubuntu forums a genuine hate for it lol. and what is the difference really? is kde that much better?

 

[:LJ:]

btw i was gonna ask...does everyone hate gnome or something? i've noticed on the ubuntu forums a genuine hate for it lol. and what is the difference really? is kde that much better?

To be honest, I've never liked KDE - it's nothing specific, just that I can't get along with it. It seems to me like it tries too hard to put everything except the kitchen sink into the desktop. GNOME just feels more organised and solid to me.

Personal preference at the end of the day, though.

 

[meinzorn]

I definitely prefer gnome over KDE...

But I haven't been using either of them.
I've been using xfce, which is a super super light window manager. I love it. It's simple, functions great, and is incredibly fast.

and it's just like AMD vs Intel. It's a preference. You can in some ways make either one look better or worse than the other.

 

[PornoSatan]

I read through this entire thread, and I'm with goodcooper 100%. It's very easy, with a firewall, decently secure browser, and common sense to avoid 99% of Windows spyware.

duby229: You clearly either A) Dont have a clue. or B) Assume said Windows PC in your scenario isnt behind a firewall. The scenario you describe is the epitome of a typical non-security minded user who just installs XP without any sort of firewall. That user is the one who becomes infected by all the worms probing the internet in search of the unpatched systems.

If your mother/sister/brother/ or yourself apparently manages to avoid that (and its easy too, by simply installing a home router for example), then they're BOUND to, repeat BOUND to install some spyware themselves because they:

• Saw some popup/imbed that masqueraded as a windows alert box saying their system infected. It must be right?
• Wanted to install some super cool cursor they saw browsing.
• Were the 100000 visitor according to the flashy popup and really did want the reward.
• Thought playboy-pics.jpg.exe was a legitimate pic.
• Thought a 325K tony-hawks-pro-skater-game.exe was the real thing.

The list can go on forever. It's very easy if you atleast have half a clue what you're doing to avoid nearly all spyware on an unpatched system. I dont run a virus scanner, or have every patch in the world. Because it's simply not needed. But then again I dont have to because I'm the only user, your story might be different. What tools do I use? Here's a little list.

Regmon
Filemon
Process Explorer
Hijack This
Tcpview
Autoruns
Rootkit Revealer

These tools dont come right out and say "YOU GOT A VIRUS!". They do their intended functions and let you judge. And thats how I like it.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

duby229: You clearly either A) Dont have a clue. or B) Assume said Windows PC in your scenario isnt behind a firewall. The scenario you describe is the epitome of a typical non-security minded user who just installs XP without any sort of firewall. That user is the one who becomes infected by all the trojans probing the internet in search of the unpatched systems.

you mean the average windows/pc user. I agree a good windows user can avoid all that crap, but most users can get viruses, spyware behind a corporate firewall and virus scanner. But I believe the point is, take a linux/bsd/osx machine and put it up against a windows machine with an average user and guess which one will get effed up, thats dubys point. Just because you can make your windows secure does not mean its built with security in mind.

 

[digital_exhaust]

B) Assume said Windows PC in your scenario isnt behind a firewall

I run my Xubuntu laptop without a firewall frequently, and have no problems at all. I think that was duby's point. Unless I misunderstood something, I'm pretty sure the point was, would you do so with your Windows machine?

I assume you wouldn't..... but of course, you know what they say about assumptions...

sudo rm -rf /thisthread indeed....

 

[As I Lay Dying]

exactly a linux user on average has no virus scanner, no root kit scanner and no firewall, except for the one on their router.

 

[PornoSatan]

exactly a linux user on average has no virus scanner, no root kit scanner and no firewall, except for the one on their router.

Yeah because they dont need to (yet). Do you honestly believe that would still be true if the Windows/Linux user base was reversed? I dont. Worms with root scouring the internet for the latest sendmail exploit or latest <insert here> exploit. Your trusty open sourced utilities could all be lying to you because some rogue worm/hacker decided to take the code and modify it with a backdoor. You think the average user would notice a difference? Heh, nope. Spyware these days is targetted towards the masses. Worms looking to get the most infections possible, in the fastest allotted time. Malware that takes advantage of user ignorance, appearing to be legit. Does using Linux cure ignorance? No it doesnt.

digital_exhaust: Not if I had a choice.


Dont read my text and pin me to one side or the other. I have nothing against Linux/BSD. But I do think duby229's statement was far fetched.

 

[Ghettobox]

Yeah because they dont need to (yet). Do you honestly believe that would still be true if the Windows/Linux user base was reversed? I dont. Worms with root scouring the internet for the latest sendmail exploit or latest <insert here> exploit. Your trusty open sourced utilities could all be lying to you because some rogue worm/hacker decided to take the code and modify it with a backdoor. You think the average user would notice a difference? Heh, nope. Spyware these days is targetted towards the masses. Worms looking to get the most infections possible, in the fastest allotted time. Malware that takes advantage of user ignorance, appearing to be legit. Does using Linux cure ignorance? No it doesnt.

digital_exhaust: Not if I had a choice.


Dont read my text and pin me to one side or the other. I have nothing against Linux/BSD. But I do think duby229's statement was far fetched.

You clearly know next to nothing about security, OSS in general.

a. worms don't change the code of an OS..let alone your firewall/av scanner. Why? They don't have root privelage..and likely don't have access to the compiler or headers (BTW..disabling your GCC compiler without root acces is a very highly reccomended securitystep). Oh..and have you ever heard of a code audit? This isn't windows.

b. Most "malware" is based on the principal most people have a broadband connection, and said malware will use your connection as a honeypot/zombie. Sure some peope like to burn the OS to the ground, or steal data..they are becoming more rare though for the home user. And if you don't think people will notice..well what can I say. Maybe a little homework would be up your ally before espousing these "nuggets" of wisdom.

And as a matter of fact people that use linux tend not to be the type to click the monkey to win a Wii. Show me a fulltime linux user that dumb. Please.

 

[Ghettobox]

I read through this entire thread, and I'm with goodcooper 100%. It's very easy, with a firewall, decently secure browser, and common sense to avoid 99% of Windows spyware.

duby229: You clearly either A) Dont have a clue. or B) Assume said Windows PC in your scenario isnt behind a firewall. The scenario you describe is the epitome of a typical non-security minded user who just installs XP without any sort of firewall. That user is the one who becomes infected by all the worms probing the internet in search of the unpatched systems.

If your mother/sister/brother/ or yourself apparently manages to avoid that (and its easy too, by simply installing a home router for example), then they're BOUND to, repeat BOUND to install some spyware themselves because they:

• Saw some popup/imbed that masqueraded as a windows alert box saying their system infected. It must be right?
• Wanted to install some super cool cursor they saw browsing.
• Were the 100000 visitor according to the flashy popup and really did want the reward.
• Thought playboy-pics.jpg.exe was a legitimate pic.
• Thought a 325K tony-hawks-pro-skater-game.exe was the real thing.

The list can go on forever. It's very easy if you atleast have half a clue what you're doing to avoid nearly all spyware on an unpatched system. I dont run a virus scanner, or have every patch in the world. Because it's simply not needed. But then again I dont have to because I'm the only user, your story might be different. What tools do I use? Here's a little list.

Regmon
Filemon
Process Explorer
Hijack This
Tcpview
Autoruns
Rootkit Revealer

These tools dont come right out and say "YOU GOT A VIRUS!". They do their intended functions and let you judge. And thats how I like it.

And precisely what does this description of what your talking about have to do with the "default" install pre SP1 Xp box? Nice list of tools you got there. None of them are in a default XP install. NONE. And by the looks of your list it seems to be aimed at saving your bacon from the biggest flaw in any version of windows. Root by default. Then again..they could all be lying..as some "worm with root" changes your code.

 

[PornoSatan]

a. worms don't change the code of an OS..let alone your firewall/av scanner. Why? They don't have root privelage..

No shit. When did I say they "change the code of an OS"? And they dont have root privilege, atleast until they get it right? Thats where exploits come in.

Oh..and have you ever heard of a code audit

Yeah I'm sure every average user would audit code and MD5 their binaries for comparison

b. Most "malware" is based on the principal most people have a broadband connection, and said malware will use your connection as a honeypot/zombie. Sure some peope like to burn the OS to the ground, or steal data..they are becoming more rare though for the home user. And if you don't think people will notice..well what can I say.

This is just a rehash of what I said here: Spyware these days is targetted towards the masses. Worms looking to get the most infections possible, in the fastest allotted time. Malware that takes advantage of user ignorance, appearing to be legit.

And as a matter of fact people that use linux tend not to be the type to click the monkey to win a Wii.

Re-read what I said about if the user base were reversed

-----

And precisely what does this description of what your talking about have to do with the "default" install pre SP1 Xp box?

It was spawned from a post duby229 made. Claiming that a fully patched Windows box behind a firewall with an antivirus if let alone for 3 days would magically become infected, I'll bet you and everyone else $1000 it wouldnt. Hell an unpatched WinXP box without a AV sitting behind a simple home router wouldnt either. Wanna bet?

Nice list of tools you got there.

Arent they? Thank god for SysInternals

And by the looks of your list it seems to be aimed at saving your bacon from the biggest flaw in any version of windows. Root by default.

Nah more for analyzing program behavior and entries. But what you describe is pretty accurate of a memory resident AV like Norton, which runs 24/7 making sure "root by default" is prevented, which I dont use. Crap maybe I should be worried

Then again..they could all be lying..as some "worm with root" changes your code.

Indeed they could be, kernel mode rootkits are a bitch right? But I dont think I've seen (or *gasp* detected atleast) a single everyday Windows utility that was backdoored in the sense of being modified at the source code level and recompiled. Now lets go back to our imaginary scenario of majority Linux minority Windows. You think the average user would figure it out if a simple utility like LS/PS were backdoor'd to hide certain directories/files/processes on a rooted system? Hell no. Could a worm carrying trojan do something like that assuming it had root via <insert exploit>? Most definately. Clearly rootkits are a non issue for Linux/Unix. Hey I was curious if you knew where that term "rootkit" originated from? When you get the answer let me know.

And Ghettobox your post reeks of hostility and bias towards *nix. I'm honestly not being biased either way. I'm stating simply *nix would have far more problems than it does if it had the user base an OS like Windows does. I hope you have the capacity to understand the same.

 

[As I Lay Dying]

I'm honestly not being biased either way. I'm stating simply *nix would have far more problems than it does if it had the user base an OS like Windows does. I hope you have the capacity to understand the same.

I think you are partially correct, its the number of users is a factor, however, *nix is susceptible to exploits however not running as a root user helps in reducing the problem. Think about it, its easier to break into a house if the front door is unlocked, right?

 

[duby229]

It was spawned from a post duby229 made. Claiming that a fully patched Windows box behind a firewall with an antivirus if let alone for 3 days would magically become infected, I'll bet you and everyone else $1000 it wouldnt. Hell an unpatched WinXP box without a AV sitting behind a simple home router wouldnt either. Wanna bet?

I'll make that bet. I've been waiting for several years for someone to take up the challenge. Do I finally have a taker? Going once, going twice? Come on you know you wanna.

You can always claim otherwise, but the proof is in the pudding.

 

[InorganicMatter]

I'll make that bet. I've been waiting for several years for someone to take up the challenge. Do I finally have a taker? Going once, going twice? Come on you know you wanna.

You can always claim otherwise, but the proof is in the pudding.

My HTPC runs Windows XP MCE, is always at least three months out of date on patches, doesn't have any antivirus, and is on almost 24/7. Been clean and rock solid for going on a year. Why? Because I use common sense on the internet.

I win; what's my prize?

 

[duby229]

My HTPC runs Windows XP MCE, is always at least three months out of date on patches, doesn't have any antivirus, and is on almost 24/7. Been clean and rock solid for going on a year. Why? Because I use common sense on the internet.

I win; what's my prize?

Except you dont have any antivirus on that computer. No malware detection? How do you know its clean? I'll be willing to bet that you contribute to the problem, and dont even know it. So arrogant... too arrogent...

 

[LstBrunnenG]

If you think it is so ludicrous, and ridiculous, then take up the challenge. Take any PC, with ANy hardware, and configure it however you wish. Once its configured and updated, with any software that you want, leave it alone for three days connected to the internet.... Then prove to us that it isnt massively infected..... Go ahead.

Didn't there used to be a thread here where people would show off their uptime in weeks, months, and years?

 

[duby229]

Didn't there used to be a thread here where people would show off their uptime in weeks, months, and years?

Yep, most of them spreading infections the whole time. Keyloggers, Honeypots, and Zombies.... Most of them.....

 

[LstBrunnenG]

I want to see you type it. No insinuating, no cute metaphor with a dozen elipses after it, no beating around the bush.

I want to see you post "If you leave a completely patched Windows box unattended for more than forty-eight hours, it will become infected and start spreading viruses, joining a botnet, or be put to otherwise nefarious uses." or something really close to it.

If that's really what you believe, come out and say it.

 

[InorganicMatter]

Except you dont have any antivirus on that computer. No malware detection? How do you know its clean? I'll be willing to bet that you contribute to the problem, and dont even know it. So arrogant... too arrogent...

I guess we'll see who's arrogant. Just for you, I installed AVG, updated, and scanned. The results...

I'll take Shiner, please.

 

[Ghettobox]

"No shit. When did I say they "change the code of an OS"? And they dont have root privilege, atleast until they get it right? Thats where exploits come in. "

Oh I don't know. How about here?

"Your trusty open sourced utilities could all be lying to you because some rogue worm/hacker decided to take the code and modify it with a backdoor. You think the average user would notice a difference?"


"Yeah I'm sure every average user would audit code and MD5 their binaries for comparison

A little FYI..code audit's aren't generally done by end users. While I might take a peak at a program once in awhile..I'm the exception rather than the norm. And then again it entirely depends upon said app and what language it's in. If you'd like to understand a code audit..if your capable..feel free to browse on over to openBSD.org


"This is just a rehash of what I said here: Spyware these days is targetted towards the masses. Worms looking to get the most infections possible, in the fastest allotted time. Malware that takes advantage of user ignorance, appearing to be legit."


Maybe..maybe not.

"Re-read what I said about if the user base were reversed "

Reversing the user base doesn't change the code one bit. It doesn't change the default policies, or the basic tenants of the OS. Or did you mean something else?
Like what if windows was built like Linux..and Linux was built like windows? What if C-A-T spelled dog?
-----


"It was spawned from a post duby229 made. Claiming that a fully patched Windows box behind a firewall with an antivirus if let alone for 3 days would magically become infected, I'll bet you and everyone else $1000 it wouldnt. Hell an unpatched WinXP box without a AV sitting behind a simple home router wouldnt either. Wanna bet?"

No thanks. Not my post, not my challenge. I have far better ideas if your looking for money. Same challenge I made earlier. Give me a guest account name..with no rights on your win box.and your IP. I'll do same on my openBSD laptop. Let's see who gets root first. Then see who can burn who's install to the ground.


"Arent they? Thank god for SysInternals "

Yes they are..I wasn't being sarcastic actually. Although if your so great at staying out of trouble on the web..why run them at all?

"Nah more for analyzing program behavior and entries. But what you describe is pretty accurate of a memory resident AV like Norton, which runs 24/7 making sure "root by default" is prevented, which I dont use. Crap maybe I should be worried "

Your choice. Not mine. Worry..don't..I couldn't care less. My bad..must have been the 2 out of 7 tools you listed aiming to save your bacon from giving up root. So sorry. Apparently only 28.6% of your tools have that job.

"Indeed they could be, kernel mode rootkits are a bitch right? But I dont think I've seen (or *gasp* detected atleast) a single everyday Windows utility that was backdoored in the sense of being modified at the source code level and recompiled. Now lets go back to our imaginary scenario of majority Linux minority Windows. You think the average user would figure it out if a simple utility like LS/PS were backdoor'd to hide certain directories/files/processes on a rooted system? Hell no. Could a worm carrying trojan do something like that assuming it had root via <insert exploit>? Most definately. Clearly rootkits are a non issue for Linux/Unix. Hey I was curious if you knew where that term "rootkit" originated from? When you get the answer let me know. "

Blah..Blah..Blah. Name me a single public rootkit for kernel 2.6. Just one. Please. Let's not pretend it's 2002 anymore shall we? Explain to me why over 70% of the web..including most of the state and federal governments run a *nix of some type and your saying that *nix has no user base? Thats right...crackers would rather have a keystroke logger on your box..and maybe run up your credit card than the DB to the DMV, or the division of taxation.

"And Ghettobox your post reeks of hostility and bias towards *nix. I'm honestly not being biased either way. I'm stating simply *nix would have far more problems than it does if it had the user base an OS like Windows does. I hope you have the capacity to understand the same. "

Of course I am biased. I haven't been hiding under the guise of neutrality. Once again. What does user base have to do with OS construction? I am completely in the dark here. And how do you figure *nix has no user base once again. Only the most important DB's, services and most important info is kept on *nix..your right. Windows has such a huge base compared to that. And thank you for the reply.