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Fragmenting Programs

R

Retardo

Gawd
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Messages
954
I read alot of magizines and every now and then i see an ad for a Defragging program. It doesnt really say why its better than the defragging program that comes w/ windows so why is it better? or is it even better? The defragging program that comes w/ windows seems to work fine.
 
The ones that come with windows aren't usually too good because they aren't as thorough as 3rd party ones. I'm a big fan of Diskeeper's line, and have been using them for quite some time. But there are others. The do a better job of sorting out your files, and also add some other features, like a boot-time defragger, which is something the Windows one doesn't do.
 
yeah, and also the 3rd party products are faster at defragging
i use diskkeeper 8.0. its pretty fast and gives you a report of the fraggmented files, etc....
 
Windows XP comes with a stripped down version of diskkeeper that is in fact pretty good. It has less features and takes longer. The defrag program in earlier versions of windows was not that great and took even longer to run. I must say though that I am very impressed with Diskkeeper 8 it's quite fast and feature rich.
 
I have been using O&O Defraq for quite some time now, tons of features and just damn good overall. Do I notice any difference between the one that comes with XP? No, but if it does what it says then the reassurance of a more efficient system is nice.
 
I use O&O Defrag Pro (v4) they are now on v6.5
and there are massive differences in the level of automation, reporting and most impportantly how you defragment
for instance, rather than just reassemble fragmented files into contiguous ones, you can order them in various schemes to improve access (towards the outer edge of the HDD platter where access, transfer and latency are better) schemes include by Name, most Accessed and Date

there are lots of other features, like defraging with just the resources available, concurrently defrag multiple volumes, MMC snap-in, automatic defrag thresholds employing one of the schemes, ect
 
I used to use it long ago
its primary advantage was its ability to relocate the pagefile to the outer edge of the platter
something I now do with Partition Magic (moving the system partition, and then creating a dedicated partition for the pagefile) and then setting the pagefile location(s) in Windows

That a good partition strategy and a good defragmenter are the primary keys to optimizing
 
Ice Czar said:
I use O&O Defrag Pro (v4) they are now on v6.5
Click to expand...

After playing around with 6.5, I know why you're using 4. I definitely don't like the fact that 6.5 makes an authentication call everytime you open the software. I'm sticking with 4.
 
hmmm wasnt aware of that
and if you just cut it off at the firewall?
v4 does everything I need so I never saw any reason to upgrade
I also got in on what turned out to be the BlueCon Beta Test
when it was actually reasonably priced ($45 vs $350)
if with less features than it now has
 
Ice Czar said:
hmmm wasnt aware of that
and if you just cut it off at the firewall?
Click to expand...

Cut if off at the firewall, won't load.

Got a response from tech support, here's their explanation.

Since we use TCP/IP as an internal communication protocol, a particular port must be free for this. Please read the following information:

When O&O Defrag starts up, I receive an error message (10061)/my firewall reports an access attempt. Why? What can I do about this?

The communication between the components of O&O Defrag (e.g. the Agent and the GUI) is based on TCP/IP. This communication takes place only internally, and doesn't access the internet. However, most firewalls are programmed to recognize internal IP communication, so you receive a warning message.

You don't have to turn off your firewall! Simply open up port 50300. Since O&O Defrag automatically checks access privileges, there can be no external access over this port even if you are connected to the internet.
Click to expand...

Opening up a port so a program can run seems like a fairly bad idea and a crappily archtected product. Using TCP/IP?

Other thing I didn't like in 6.5 was a process that continuously ran even when the app was closed, consumed about 5MB. Doesn't happen with 4.

6.5 is a fair bit faster defragging though.
 
The communication between the components of O&O Defrag (e.g. the Agent and the GUI) is based on TCP/IP. This communication takes place only internally, and doesn't access the internet.

huh?
is that not like sending a package with the FEDEX to your self??
Why would you need a open port when a gui have to "speak" to its .exe?
It means that this prog wont work on a machine without a tcpip installed....very strange!
and indeed bad programming :rolleyes:
 
Diskeeper is HORRIBLE. Perfectdisk is AWESOME. You only need to run it once, no matter what, and it does a wonderful job. And it's pretty fast. www.raxco.com (Raxco, give me some money for advertising for you now!)
 
I have been using Norton Speed Disk for a number of years and have never had problems with it. Norton also has some other good utilities
 
I used to use Speed Disk but it doesn't fully defrag anymore. MS doesn't, SD doesn't, Diskeeper doesn't, Perfectdisk DOES! When I defrag, I do not want to see a single block that means fragmented file, nor do I want to see my free space fragmented. And I want to only run it once to accomplish that. Perfectdisk does all of that.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
Any opinions on Norton Speed Disk?
Click to expand...

I us to us it all the time....until the last time I used it and then it completely screwed up my partition. Lessons learned from that experience

1. Have all of my music/videos etc. on a different partition other than a OS partition
2. I have no plans of using Speed Disk EVER AGAIN!!

Now grant it I know it was probably a fluke and hell shit happens but shit hasn't happened since that experience
 
I've tried out o&o Defrag, Diskeeper and Perfectdisk.

Ended up with Diskeeper because it does a solid job defragging your MFT and Paging file.

6/8/04 Defrag Comparison

I did open up port 50300 and probe it @ GRC. Came back as stealth, but I just don't like that and completely agree it's rather crappily architected.
 
of course O&O does that as well
but I clear my paging file at shutdown anyway, a common security tweak

Glad your happy with it ;)

for future reference, take editors ratings at PC Magazine with a grain of salt,
these are the same guys that have rated Norton AntiVirus the editors pick since the dawn of time
there is a widely held belief that their advertising dollars influence their choices

between O&O and Diskeeper
its really a personal preference for the various features
both are excellent programs
 
Well, PerfectDisk and O&O got good ratings (Diskeeper also), while Speed Disk got the horrible rating it deserved... I think that article is fairly accurate.
 
actually that article was simplistic drivel
but thats what PC Magazine tends to dish up to the "computer illiterate" normally
they didnt really do a very good review of any of the features
sure they included a few loosers but didnt go indepth on the programs that where actually in contention

That review wasnt really offbase, unlike others Ive seen
but it also wasnt done half as well as many an amateur enthusiast site either
 
Quite aware of the issues with PCMag, but if you open the performance results links on the first page, the test seems to be straightforward and its difficult to argue with the results. They aren't subjective like "good" and "very good" which you typically see on their AV tests.

If you want AV tests... head over to Rokop.de or av-comparatives.org.

FYI Diskeeper 6.5 had some issues moving MFT on my rig and defrag 4.0 was pretty slow and had the same issues with MFT.
 
I did open those, but again very simplistic benchmarks
without exploring the various results available through the different features and strategies available

both Diskeeper and O&O are serious server level feature rich defrag programs with control over optimizing your specific filesystem and partiotioning strategy

they reduced it to mom and pop which is best for a dummy level
Im familiar with both Rokop.de or av-comparatives.org
and Virus Bulletin as well ;)
 
Ice Czar said:
I did open those, but again very simplistic benchmarks
without exploring the various results available through the different features and strategies available

both Diskeeper and O&O are serious server level feature rich defrag programs with control over optimizing your specific filesystem and partiotioning strategy

they reduced it to mom and pop which is best for a dummy level
Im familiar with both Rokop.de or av-comparatives.org
and Virus Bulletin as well ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, simplistic, but I don't need to get too in depth. Not using it on a server.

Not to get OT, but VB is getting pretty useless. Not enough details on the test and platform used. Not to mention they don't provide enough info about why an app fails. For example, BitDefender had 1 false positive, yet VB gives them a big FAIL. Not a big deal when you get down to it.
 
Its why I figure Kaspersky fails so much
false positives :rolleyes:
but the test rules are simple, no false positives and everything on the wild list

actually while you may not be running a server, you are likely to be wanting to optimize your access to the maximum, being an enthusisast and all :p

and why would you take extra time out of your gaming or whatever to be running maintence?
thats where the automated server features come in, by setting automatic thresholds, and specific strategies on what kind of defragmentation occurs on various partitions
and since its in the background with whatever resources are left over

you could actually be defraging while fragging :p
 
Ice Czar said:
Its why I figure Kaspersky fails so much
false positives :rolleyes:
but the test rules are simple, no false positives and everything on the wild list

actually while you may not be running a server, you are likely to be wanting to optimize your access to the maximum, being an enthusisast and all :p

and why would you take extra time out of your gaming or whatever to be running maintence?
thats where the automated server features come in, by setting automatic thresholds, and specific strategies on what kind of defragmentation occurs on various partitions
and since its in the background with whatever resources are left over

you could actually be defraging while fragging :p
Click to expand...

Actually KAV for XP has done quite well since 4.5. You should check out 5.0, Personal is fully released and Workstation is in beta.
 
Odd thing I've noticed is that my HD is fragmenting fairly quickly. Not sure if this is due to multiple scans while I'm testing AV apps or the defrag apps themselves. Any ideas?

Using my laptop, 1.8GP4, 768MB RAM, 5400RPM HD, XP SP2 build 2147.

I'm talking drive goes from 0% to 3% same day.
 
tazdevl said:
Odd thing I've noticed is that my HD is fragmenting fairly quickly. Not sure if this is due to multiple scans while I'm testing AV apps or the defrag apps themselves. Any ideas?

Using my laptop, 1.8GP4, 768MB RAM, 5400RPM HD, XP SP2 build 2147.

I'm talking drive goes from 0% to 3% same day.
Click to expand...

3% is alot? damn... :confused:
 
No it's more an issue that it's fragmenting quickly. Never had this issue before. Drive is fine, passed fitness tests, so not sure where the problem is unless there's an issue with SP2.
 
http://partition.radified.com/partitioning.htm
specifically page 2 > Advantages of Multi-Partition Drives

could be any number of apps writing
the most infamous offenders are filesharing aps, do to the way they incrementally recieve the files, I always had them with their own download partition

the Paging file is the most written but if its fixed....
the MFT gets dedicated space so thats not likely
offhand Id guess its your temp files, IE cache ect

you can take partitioning to eliminate fragmentation to an extreme
http://zapwizard.com/Partitioning/index.html
but that introduces repair and recovery hassels
 
I'll check that out. I'm wondering if it's more an issue with Diskeeper. I'd assume that the performance defrag option is driven by program access. So if my habits change, the app will perceive the drive as being fragmented and reorder the apps to increase performance.

Just odd, or I guess it could be an SP2 build issue.
 
so which is the best defrag program out there? i have tried o&o, diskeeper, perfectdisk, nortons speed disk and windows built in defrag and i still cannot seem to work out the best one? but judging from www.download.com the amount downloaded is PERFECTDISK IS THE WINNER since it has been downloaded 1 MILLION TIMES!

ok i know i am going to get some flaming now just because i chose PD purely on the basis of it being downloaded x amount of times, but from judging all program options, they seem to have all that set it and forget it option. if i was to choose, it would seem to be o&o since u can defrag MFT at boot time too. Plus it defrags quite fast too. and it produces an HTML report status of my HD. it shows me that most of my XXX is defragged all over my HDs. :D
 
IMO its really a question of personally balancing which features and performance parameters are important to you

my earlier rant ::p
regarding the review, was that it lacked the depth to guage all those features and presented a few simple benchmarks as a justification

a good read > Optimizing Disks

tazdevl
TaskInfo 2003 (Shareware) might help you ID what process\ap is responsible for the fragmentation, if you select the process it will give you the files in the lower right pane (file tab)

another possibility is O&O allows you to click on a fragment and see what it is (start O&O, select a volume to analyze, go to the main graphical window and right click a fragment, youll get a popup of it and its nieghbors (depending on the block scale, you can get individual fragments at a 3pixel block size) of course youd need to recognize the entry
and that might not tip you as to which process is responsible, (why I linked Tasknfo)
 
ok i really feel its the time to defragment my pc. lol. i have rounded it down to either 0 & 0 or perfect disk. for me, perfect disk seems to defrag hard drives really fast but i feel that it does not defrag it thorough. o&o seems to take longer however seems more thorough. can someone tell me which program i should go for? either o&o or perfect disk.

i am so picky since i feel i am going to buy either only ONE not BOTH programs :confused:

well the pc i need to defrag is this:
windows 2000 pro
533mhz celeron
320mb sdram. wuhuu
maxtor 40gb 2mb - has os
maxtor 122gb 8mb - has backup, vids, music, progs, etc.
some intel 8010 graphics card :p

HAVE NOT DEFRAGGED EITHER DRIVES FOR LIKE 4/5 YEARS ID SAY.
please dont flame me. lol. well its because the pc is too slow to run msn, edonkey, word and kazaa at the same time. i am a student therefore no time. yes, i know i could leave on over the night but i cant afford electricity just like that unlike you rich people.
 
Perfectdisk is extremely thorough in my experience. You may need to do an offline defrag before you do a smartplace defrag, though.

IMO, you won't go wrong with either PD or O&O. Flip a coin?
 
dandragonrage said:
Flip a coin?
Click to expand...

Id take each for a test ride ;)
Really think it comes down to which set of features you end up appreciating more
 
lynxlynx said:
The communication between the components of O&O Defrag (e.g. the Agent and the GUI) is based on TCP/IP. This communication takes place only internally, and doesn't access the internet.

huh?
is that not like sending a package with the FEDEX to your self??
Why would you need a open port when a gui have to "speak" to its .exe?
It means that this prog wont work on a machine without a tcpip installed....very strange!
and indeed bad programming :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Are you sure you unerstand how the O+O software works? I was using the "pro" version (or did they call it the "server" version?) on trial, and the agent in that version could talk to any running instance of the defragmenter engine.

Say you have three machines; you can schedule, run, and check status on any of the three machines from one machine. For large organizations (or even single users who have more than a couple of machines to manage -- like me) it's very helpful.

I think it's a great architecture. The local communication doesn't need to be high-bandwidth, and there's far less latency over TCP/IP to the local host to itself than your FEDEX implementation implies, and than the UI needs to show the status of the operation.

.B ekiM
 
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