Folding Practices Guidlines - Accepted by PG

This is good stuff. Its nice to have an official set of rules to fall back on in the event of an argument :)
 
They still have that subjective paragraph about running bigAdv, why don't they just say "if your machine can't finish a WU in 2 (or whatever) days, GTFO!".

Also is there any talk about added built-in error reporting/ feedback? This would greatly speed up the identification of rotten WU's that go around terrorising these good people.

PS: Congrats on being the frontrunner in the nominations.
 
Also is there any talk about added built-in error reporting/ feedback? This would greatly speed up the identification of rotten WU's that go around terrorising these good people.
It is slowly being fixed. There are several issues ranging from work server bugs, not all work servers running the latest code, to client bugs on the Linux side that prevent partial work units from getting properly sent back to PG. It isn't something that is as easy as some would think that can be quickly fixed.
 
They still have that subjective paragraph about running bigAdv, why don't they just say "if your machine can't finish a WU in 2 (or whatever) days, GTFO!".

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=10697#p105038

That is a little vague to me as well. They pretty much say for quad cores (no HT) to GTFO. They are a little hesitant to strictly say that i7's with HT are ok. Not even a mention about 6 core processors (like Thuban's). However they pretty much stated that if you are able to complete the -bigadv in Half of the deadline you were good to go no matter what hardware was used. That kinda puts my mind at ease that essentially they will look the other way if the WU's are done in half the deadline.
 
I don't believe it is a simple fix (or that they ever totally fix it given the distributed nature of the project). I'm on about improving the reporting with bug reports. The problem is many users experience bad WU's but this goes largely unreported (I'm guilty of this and I'm sure many others are also).

That is by far my biggest grip with the project which can be largely minimised. Happy folders == more productive folders.

Just my 2c.
 
Yes very good work Tobit
Now those people who were cherry picking units have some good reading material. They formed their own team from what I recall, to bad, I doubt they have a forum to post that link in.
 
6.Donors should not intentionally stop/pause the FAH Client to manipulate the completion time or wuresult upload time of work units.

I seem to recall reading something about evga pulling this stunt in the CC to drop a huge update
 
They still have that subjective paragraph about running bigAdv, why don't they just say "if your machine can't finish a WU in 2 (or whatever) days, GTFO!".

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=10697#p105038

That is a little vague to me as well. They pretty much say for quad cores (no HT) to GTFO. They are a little hesitant to strictly say that i7's with HT are ok. Not even a mention about 6 core processors (like Thuban's).

Because they're waffling, big surprise. :rolleyes:
No definitive answer because all they want is the results, they kinda just look the other way (obviously).

Maybe I'm thinking they should be a little more blunt on the subjects, but 3 & 4 don't really put a solid point across either. "Don't do it, don't experiment", but no word on punishing those who do.

Putting up a "list" of guidelines is a step forward. Clearly they're not saying "these are the RULES", they're not even really using the word RULE anywhere, and they're still not coming out and saying "we will actively punish those who circumvent the rules". So what exactly is gained from this? I don't get it. Maybe I'm playing more devil's advocate on this since I'm not actively folding ATM, but I just don't get it. :eek: Maybe PG doesn't want to turn f@h into a dictatorship, but for the integrity of the project and the sanity of a lot of people who contribute to it ~ I think they should. Again though, clearly the name of the game is results. They want the end result, without a care on the when, where, and how. SMH
 
So what exactly is gained from this?

I think there's a limit to what PG can do about "cheaters" or those who break the "rules." Those types of people are always going to be out there either way. I think this FAQ is more for donors who are new to the project or new to DC in general, and may not know that it's frowned upon to dump slow WUs or try to run bigadv on bare minimum hardware.

Lately this team has seen a few people show up with massive hardware but no background in F@H, and I think it's nice to be able to point them to a FAQ on the Stanford site with best practices.
 
So what exactly is gained from this? I don't get it.
Please see Xilikon's original thread for background before condemning this. For PG to even think about adopting something like this, albeit with some PC-esque changes to limit the use of the "prohibited" phrase, is a major step forward.
 
...

Putting up a "list" of guidelines is a step forward. Clearly they're not saying "these are the RULES", they're not even really using the word RULE anywhere, and they're still not coming out and saying "we will actively punish those who circumvent the rules"....

Clearly... :rolleyes:

Best Practices FAQ
Introduction

Folding@home (FAH) is a major scientific endeavor, but is also a kind of contest for some donors to see who can donate the most points. In order to keep a sense of fair competition, we asked donors to help us establish a list of rules. These rules are stated below to engender the spirit of competition in a way that is impartial for all donors. We thank everyone for their contributions and hope they will enjoy competing and donating to the project.

Saying you'll get punished if you break a rule in a Best Practices FAQ isn't very helpful when trying to attract new donors. They want to promote competition, not foster the fear of reprisal if you mis-step. Running a client from a group that acts like a Police State wouldn't be very fun. Honey, not vinegar.

But if you have any doubts about getting punished when the rules get broken, I can think of about 12 million reasons not to doubt it.

Just saying... ;)
 
Saying you'll get punished if you break a rule in a Best Practices FAQ isn't very helpful when trying to attract new donors.
That's like saying warning hackers that they'll get banned if they cheat in an online game isn't very helpful when trying to attract new players. The presence of hard rules isn't a deterrent to people who have no intention of breaking them. As for the people who are coming to the project to cheat and manipulate their way into getting more points, those aren't the kinds of people Pande Group wants in the first place, right?
 
Actually, you'd be surprised at how "sensitive" some people are. People have complained about me being insensitive. No, really. I think I'd fit right in over here. :cool:

My preference is for "harder" language, but it didn't happen. Nothing said by PG will deter the attempts of the people who try to manipulate the points, so PG doesn't address those people (PG deals with them in other ways). PG does address the people that will listen, and PG's feels they don't need to use harsh language with those people. I can see their point.

Also, if it later becomes clear that "Please don't..." is causing more problems than fixing, we'll lobby to get a few "b*tchslaps" put in there. :)
 
Actually, you'd be surprised at how "sensitive" some people are. People have complained about me being insensitive. No, really. I think I'd fit right in over here. :cool:

My preference is for "harder" language, but it didn't happen. Nothing said by PG will deter the attempts of the people who try to manipulate the points, so PG doesn't address those people (PG deals with them in other ways). PG does address the people that will listen, and PG's feels they don't need to use harsh language with those people. I can see their point.

Also, if it later becomes clear that "Please don't..." is causing more problems than fixing, we'll lobby to get a few "b*tchslaps" put in there. :)
Sensitive or not, the fact is that Pande Group is too afraid of losing donors to take a real stance against the kinds of behaviour that are detrimental to the project. In the long run, that will only hurt it.
 
Actually, you'd be surprised at how "sensitive" some people are. People have complained about me being insensitive. No, really. I think I'd fit right in over here. :cool:

My preference is for "harder" language, but it didn't happen. Nothing said by PG will deter the attempts of the people who try to manipulate the points, so PG doesn't address those people (PG deals with them in other ways). PG does address the people that will listen, and PG's feels they don't need to use harsh language with those people. I can see their point.

Also, if it later becomes clear that "Please don't..." is causing more problems than fixing, we'll lobby to get a few "b*tchslaps" put in there. :)
I know some people around the project have advocated "harder" language, and I have to say that, while I appreciate the move by PG to codify some kind of "rules", I completely understand their soft stance. They really don't care about points, just the science, and if people are off-put or driven away by a more forceful stance, then the science just doesn't get finished. They understand that points are a big part of why people participate, and people won't tolerate too much abuse of the system, so they should have some kind of rule in place to justify their "b*tchslaps" if, and when, they come... I just don't see a reason to be too disappointed with this step by PG.

Sensitive or not, the fact is that Pande Group is too afraid of losing donors to take a real stance against the kinds of behaviour that are detrimental to the project. In the long run, that will only hurt it.

only PG can determine whats "detrimental" to the project... its their project after all. If they feel that they can tolerate the behavior of a few assholes while preserving a donor-friendly attitude, then thats for them to decide. We may be blowing the impact of these jerks out of proportion, It'd be nice to see what really goes on under the hood with this data, but realistically speaking that'll never happen (the academic world is just too cutthroat)
 
I think this is a huge step forward in clarifying PG's official stance on many subjects. My thanks to Xilicon, Jebo_4jc and Tobit for all of your input and getting this in place. :D
 
marty9876 said:
not the words I would use, but sure, why not lol:p

Oh, look! The outcast son has returned. And how cute, he's learned how to edit quote tags. Well done little marty. You stay classy!
 
glad to see these adopted.

Looking at the language that was used, though, I think somebody unnecessarily modified some of the language xilikon, pantherX and I had going in the original thread at FF, and made the language more ambiguous in the process.
 
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