Five 2.1 Speaker Set Comparison

RishiGuru said:
Also when I said " I will never compare between this two" means I am not trying to compare. I just prefer one
over the other.
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Yes, I figured that's what you meant, but its not what the sentence means. Saying "I will never compare" in the literal sense means you wont be pointing out the differences or similarities between them, but that's what you did ;) I dont particularly want to argue over it as its not on the topic of the thread.

Its like saying "I'm going to pull this person's heart out of their chest, but I'm not going to kill them". You are saying something that will kill them, then saying you wont kill them. The same way as you compare something, then say you wont compare them.

English is a funny language and its easy for confusion to arise even when it is your first language. Especially with a word like "compare" as it can have different connotations when used in different circumstances.

RishiGuru said:
...that (the) objective review of a product is a substantial part of any review. Subjective part is the rest.
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I agree with the statement in general, but not in all cases and often not in audio. An objective analysis is only as good as the test procedure and range of data provided, and its only as useful as that data can be interpreted by the readers. Its why audiophiles come up with so many words to describe sound, if it could be displayed purely in cold hard data, it would.

Like comparing hard drives. You can simply run a few tests and it will tell you which drive is better for which task. Video cards can be compared by recording frame rates, frame periods and frame delays and the "subjective" part of the review is only necessary to say whether there were other variables that arose during the review which can't be captured by the data.

Comparing audio, however, is much harder. Especially when the data shows all sets of speakers to be erratic, determining which one actually produces the "better" sound for a given listener can't be done from data alone.

That's my opinion of course ;)
 
Never meant to encourage your rants, just thought it was curious you would never answer direct questions. Will be glad to see this and your other post go away and fade from view. Subjective is fine but not when you try to present your opinion as fact and then berate others who point it out.
 
RishiGuru said:
I understand you completely Blackbeard Ben, you can never find any positives about a person or an object under discussion. You always need third party support for that. Thats why I am here.

I admit though, you are very good in pointing out the negatives about a person or an object under discussion all by yourself. Thats why you are here.

See what I mean guys.
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"The glass is twice as big as it needs to be" is an engineering joke (actually, it's originally a George Carlin bit). It means that using such a large glass is a potential waste of resources.

It's not negative at all. It means you the opportunity to use a smaller glass! How great is it that you don't have to use such a large glass for this liquid holding task?!?




Snufykat said:
Never meant to encourage your rants, just thought it was curious you would never answer direct questions. Will be glad to see this and your other post go away and fade from view. Subjective is fine but not when you try to present your opinion as fact and then berate others who point it out.
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You got that right.
 
@RishiGuru - Do you think a Auralex SubDude would benefit the THX certified sub in the Logitech Z623 system?

I am thinking it will help to isolate the sub from interacting with the floor and help deepen the already impressive bass even more. I have heard many stories of THX certified subwoofers knocking pictures off the wall, cracking plaster and even foundations of houses! I would like to obviously avoid this if at all possible as I would hate to get a knock on my apartment door at 2 am because I knocked the light fixture off the ceiling of my downstairs neighbor.
 
Mathemabeat said:
@RishiGuru - Do you think a Auralex SubDude would benefit the THX certified sub in the Logitech Z623 system?

I am thinking it will help to isolate the sub from interacting with the floor and help deepen the already impressive bass even more. I have heard many stories of THX certified subwoofers knocking pictures off the wall, cracking plaster and even foundations of houses! I would like to obviously avoid this if at all possible as I would hate to get a knock on my apartment door at 2 am because I knocked the light fixture off the ceiling of my downstairs neighbor.
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I am finally calm now.

[Note: I only answered because it was you. Don't expect anymore in this thread.]
 
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Mathemabeat said:
@RishiGuru - Do you think a Auralex SubDude would benefit the THX certified sub in the Logitech Z623 system?

I am thinking it will help to isolate the sub from interacting with the floor and help deepen the already impressive bass even more. I have heard many stories of THX certified subwoofers knocking pictures off the wall, cracking plaster and even foundations of houses! I would like to obviously avoid this if at all possible as I would hate to get a knock on my apartment door at 2 am because I knocked the light fixture off the ceiling of my downstairs neighbor.
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Yup it'll help. I have an Auralex GRAMMA for my MFW-15 and it works great. Also you can find it for $50 on Amazon.

RishiGuru said:
I am finally calm now.

[Note: I only answered because it was you. Don't expect anymore in this thread.]
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There's something wrong with you.
 
A good way to test these is to go to the local Best Buy... they usually have them all setup if the store people dont' suck ass.

The Klipsch ProMedia setup always sounds the best to me, but they don't have a few in this list like the Corsair speakers. Still the promedias are definitely nice in my opinion
 
I wouldn't call testing anything in Best Buy a good idea. You have no idea how they're setting those up (Wonder what's inside a Bose headphone stand? I wonder, and so does everyone else who hasn't signed a non-disclosure act about them...), and the noisy environment and horrible speaker & sub positioning are, well, horrible.

Then again, if they're all set up similarly shitty...

I still maintain that the Dayton DTA-1 + B652 combo provides better quality at less than half the price ($58). Put the extra money you've saved towards a sub - the Dayton SUB-80 is just $100 - and you've got a far better performing system for what, $30 more than the cheapest of those?

Not to mention, the upgradability... Want a better sub? Buy one! Better speakers? Buy them! (Or build your own...)
 
Blackbeard Ben said:
I still maintain that the Dayton DTA-1 + B652 combo provides better quality at less than half the price ($58). Put the extra money you've saved towards a sub - the Dayton SUB-80 is just $100 - and you've got a far better performing system for what, $30 more than the cheapest of those?

Not to mention, the upgradability... Want a better sub? Buy one! Better speakers? Buy them! (Or build your own...)
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whats the next step up, do you recommend from the dayton dta-1 + b652?
 
A better pair of speakers - the B652 is very good for $30, but the amp would still be good powering $1000 speakers that are efficient enough.

I've got some Klipsch B-2s that are a definite step up - and they're much more efficient too. You can find those, or the better B-2s, for under $200 on eBay (NOS or used). The Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 or 9.2 would be great for a little more, and for a bit more than that I might go for the Dali Ikon 1 or whatever the entry level B&W bookshelf speaker is.

If you're talking a big step up, the Klipsch Palladium P-17b would be a good choice. But we're talking over $2000 used...

This little Spica T-50 looks really cool with the triangular cabinets:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1299856323&/Spica-TC-50-Legendary-Monitors

My money would probably have to go to Infinity Infinitesimals or Kappa 5s, however.
 
My choice for upgrading the B652 is to do the Silverflute driver replacement and the crossover upgrade that joeljoel1947 describes in the user reviews section. Its not too expensive, probably will boost the SQ quite a bit, and one can say one did it all themselves.

JMO
 
Just want to chime in about the Klipsch Pro Media 2.1s, since I've had my set on three different PCs across five years- short answer is that I really like them.

On games like Stalker, where ambient sounds really add to the atmosphere, these speakers do great. On games like Crysis, where things are much more visceral with plenty of intese firefights, these speakers do great. Bass is *powerful*. There is an adjustment for the bass level on the right speaker. A small dot at 11 o'clock indicates the preferred sub setting. I either leave it there or set the control at 12 o'clock for pretty much everything.... anything beyond that just becomes a dumb level of bass. :)

On music, well, last weekend I spent about a half hour setting them up just right (distance apart and toe-in), since my new Acer monitor is so wide that I had move things around on top of my desk. Listen, adjust, listen, adjust and so on. After I was happy with the setup, I just listened to some of my favorite songs for an hour or so, simply enjoying the sound.

One thing I look for in speakers is a nice soundstage / good vocals. On something like Tori Amos, I love it when her voice just hangs there perfectly between the speakers... maybe that's more of an audiophile thing, but the Klipsch 2.1s pull it off. They also do fine on rock, rap, and techno, with a powerful sound and *plenty* of loudness.

The right speaker also has the main volume control and a headphone jack, which I appreciate. Sound quality can be a subjective thing, and I know that there are newer and more high tech 2.1 systems out there, but I'm happy with these and haven't felt the need to upgrade.
 
Couple things to add-

This is with onboard audio, all music was from an old fashioned CD spinning in the CD drive, no EQ settings that I know of, and Windows volume set at 60%. I also like having the speakers up near ear level, so here's my solution to raise them up some-

100_0586.jpg


Sorry about the pic quality and the ugly mouse pad.

What is up with Tom's taking measurements with the bass maxed? That would be totally unlistenable in my opinion.

edit-
*sigh*
Did more reading and apparently the new 2.1s are different than the old 2.1s. New ones have hardwired sats, no on/off switch on the back of the sub, and the sub weighs less. Mine are definitely the older models, so your mileage may vary...
 
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As an owner of the newer Klipsch 2.1s, I have to say the bass is disappointing at higher levels. I can only stand to have the subwoofer turned to 8 or 9 before it starts to become too strong and thumpy, but at that lower level it still sounds acceptable. I completely know what you mean about the soundstage and vocals though, that aspect seems to have survived the change.
 
It really is too bad that this is on page 7 and I want to address things with page 1-2.

Anyways if you guys really think those Promedias are great speakers then fine so be it. I thought my promedia 4.1s had awesome song until I went through 3 sets, 2 within the first 3 months of ownership. Last set died 2 months after warranty.

I am willing to bet the Promedias have worse reliability than then old Xbox 360s. The bass was boomy and the Logitech z5500s I had blew away the Promedias in bass response and even though the Logitechs had a slight humming issue and they survived 10 moves they never broke.

I am looking for a good 2.1 system and I probably won't go with Logitechs, but you can sure as hell bet I will never go with Klispch Promedias because of their shitty reliability.
 
roaf85 said:
It really is too bad that this is on page 7 and I want to address things with page 1-2.

Anyways if you guys really think those Promedias are great speakers then fine so be it. I thought my promedia 4.1s had awesome song until I went through 3 sets, 2 within the first 3 months of ownership. Last set died 2 months after warranty.

I am willing to bet the Promedias have worse reliability than then old Xbox 360s. The bass was boomy and the Logitech z5500s I had blew away the Promedias in bass response and even though the Logitechs had a slight humming issue and they survived 10 moves they never broke.

I am looking for a good 2.1 system and I probably won't go with Logitechs, but you can sure as hell bet I will never go with Klispch Promedias because of their shitty reliability.
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I was going to snag the Logitech system only because it was 107 on sale but after having my G15 v2 fail after about a year and a half and having to RMA my G930 after about a month and a half is just sad (the charging port is terrible for something that needs to be charged so often, it's a micro usb a mini would have been a better option).

Grab the Corsair SP2500, it's expensive but getting great reviews everywhere. Some people say just get M-Audio speakers and a sub but that ends up being the same price.
 
Why recommend an overpriced 2.1 system? I dont see how AV40 + sub will sound worse than the SP2500. It was recommended in your thread. I dont see why you would recommend it to someone else after people have told you to stay away from it.
 
ThumperSD said:
Why recommend an overpriced 2.1 system? I dont see how AV40 + sub will sound worse than the SP2500. It was recommended in your thread. I dont see why you would recommend it to someone else after people have told you to stay away from it.
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Who said the AV40 + sub would sound worse?

He asked for a 2.1 system and the Corsair is exactly that, on top of that they come with a TWO YEAR warranty. Yes I will say it's a bit on the higher end price wise but the range is 35Hz-20kHz which is the same range as the AV40 + sub (for the same 250). There has been only one person who's heard these and made a comparison to the Klipsch set, I haven't seen a review of someone who's comparing the AV40+sub to these. So why not recommend them?
 
Because AV40 + Sub > SP2500. Why wouldnt you choose the better setup for the same price? You can grab Skullcandy headphones for the same price as a RX700. The RX700 will sound better so why would you choose the Skullcandy? It makes no sense. You have a point about the warranty though but it would never change my decision if I were to choose between these two setups.

Also dont pay too much attention to their freq range. Because we all know it can be VERY misleading. Just because two setups can hit the same freqs doesnt mean they will both sound the same. Anyone can say a Z2300 will sound better than the BX5a just because it can hit lower freqs. In the end, the BX5a's sound quality is MUCH better yet lacks the bass that the Z2300 offers.
 
ThumperSD said:
Because AV40 + Sub > SP2500. Why wouldnt you choose the better setup for the same price? You can grab Skullcandy headphones for the same price as a RX700. The RX700 will sound better so why would you choose the Skullcandy? It makes no sense. You have a point about the warranty though but it would never change my decision if I were to choose between these two setups.

Also dont pay too much attention to their freq range. Because we all know it can be VERY misleading. Just because two setups can hit the same freqs doesnt mean they will both sound the same. Anyone can say a Z2300 will sound better than the BX5a just because it can hit lower freqs. In the end, the BX5a's sound quality is MUCH better yet lacks the bass that the Z2300 offers.
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Have you heard them to make the comparison to say they are that much better?
If you can't judge them by freq. range or by power how are you supposed to judge them?

FYI: I'd like to add that I'm not trying to troll but understand how people can judge these speakers without hearing them when every review loves them. I'm willing and ready to drop the price of the Corsair system on either it or the AV40+sub but I've found nothing convincing to go with the latter, only thing the AV40 has for it is people love them for music.
 
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ThumperSD said:
Which brings me back to why you would recommend speakers you have never heard
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Touché.

Yet my point, Because AV40 + Sub > SP2500. You've heard both of them to make this claim?

roaf85:

There are many options out there, one of the main ones people recommend are the M-Audio AV40 and a sub to create a 2.1 system yourself (Quite a few people recommend the Dayton Sub-100). You also have the option of getting the just recently releasedCorsair SP2500 2.1 system which if you can tell has been the product of much debate lately.
 
You judge by sound quality. Comparing sets of speakers based entirely on freq range is like comparing the which two or more drinks tastes better based entirely on its nutrition label. I dont know why it's so hard for people to grasp on this.

Based on your logic, a Z2300 > BX5a
 
ThumperSD said:
You judge by sound quality. Comparing sets of speakers based entirely on freq range is like comparing the which two or more drinks tastes better based entirely on its nutrition label. I dont know why it's so hard for people to grasp on this.

Based on your logic, a Z2300 > BX5a
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So then by your information anything you say can be disregarded because you haven't had the chance to listen to the SQ from the Corsair set?

I'm trying to weed through all the fluff people keep adding saying these speakers (the corsair system) are overpriced garbage. None of my local places keep stock of the M-Audio system and I'm not going to pay a 25% restocking fee at BB to test them out. This is the same reason I haven't ordered the Corsair system, 250 is quite a bit to spend on speakers for my computer but I'm willing to do it for quality and something that will last. The speaker set I have (I was always guesstimating but I've had them for 10 years).

I currently use harman kardon hk695, so obviously I'm not going to sit and say I'm even remotely close to an audio expert but you don't ever learn if you don't ask questions.
 
Dextar said:
So then by your information anything you say can be disregarded because you haven't had the chance to listen to the SQ from the Corsair set?

I'm trying to weed through all the fluff people keep adding saying these speakers (the corsair system) are overpriced garbage. None of my local places keep stock of the M-Audio system and I'm not going to pay a 25% restocking fee at BB to test them out. This is the same reason I haven't ordered the Corsair system, 250 is quite a bit to spend on speakers for my computer but I'm willing to do it for quality and something that will last. The speaker set I have (I was always guesstimating but I've had them for 10 years).

I currently use harman kardon hk695, so obviously I'm not going to sit and say I'm even remotely close to an audio expert but you don't ever learn if you don't ask questions.
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Here is the best solution. If you buy either one (AV40 + sub vs Corsair), you may easily second guess your purchase after the fact. Remove all doubt and get a receiver + bookshelf + subwoofer. I had logicraps, AV40 + subwoofer previously. Went with used Denon from Craigslist + BIC F12 subwoofer + Energy Bookshelf speakers. I guarantee you do something similar you will never have buyer's remorse, conversely with the other 2 choices I can't guarantee it.

Lastly with the receiver upgrade path you can add additional speakers up to 7.2 and have a total of 2 subwoofers. You can't say the same for the other solutions.

Btw found this looks like he tried over here too. Love the replies
 
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Dextar said:
So then by your information anything you say can be disregarded because you haven't had the chance to listen to the SQ from the Corsair set?

I'm trying to weed through all the fluff people keep adding saying these speakers (the corsair system) are overpriced garbage. None of my local places keep stock of the M-Audio system and I'm not going to pay a 25% restocking fee at BB to test them out. This is the same reason I haven't ordered the Corsair system, 250 is quite a bit to spend on speakers for my computer but I'm willing to do it for quality and something that will last. The speaker set I have (I was always guesstimating but I've had them for 10 years).

I currently use harman kardon hk695, so obviously I'm not going to sit and say I'm even remotely close to an audio expert but you don't ever learn if you don't ask questions.
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Actually yes you can disregard it but my point is that you should not blindly recommend speakers especially at that price tag. That is all I should have said.
 
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