First Time Computer Builder (Also, Hello)

[OrangeWolf]

Hey there folks, it's the new person! I spent a while looking around for somewhere to start off posting, but finally decided to jump right in. I'm brand new at this computer building stuff, and while I've always kept up a fair bit with reviews and whatnot for hardware I've never had as comprehensive an understanding as I'd like. I'm gonna try to change that.

I apologize in advance if I ask too many questions or talk too much, or if this post ends up being tl;dr. I did read the rules so at least I think I've avoiding breaking those.

1) What will you be doing with this PC?

Gaming & Photoshop, but I not what I think is considered "hardcore" for either. Also writing a Dissertation and using various basic Chemistry softwares (Spartan comes to mind).

2) What's your budget?

I'd like to keep it under $900 if possible, as that's what I won at the Casino in November, but I can push that a bit if it's genuinely worthwhile. That includes Tax & Shipping.

3) Where do you live?

Mississippi, USA

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget?

As far as I know, I need a CPU, Graphics Card, RAM, PSU, Mobo, Hard Drive, Case, and Optical Drive.

However I am new at this so if I am also going to need something like a sound card or CPU cooler or something, I don't know that I need it.

Monitor not included in budget -- I expect one as a present.

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing?

None. I'm starting completely from scratch and have never even owned a Desktop.

6) Will you be overclocking?

No. As far as I know this isn't worth it and decreases the lifetime of the parts -- please correct if wrong.

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

23"-24"

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

No time constraints, but current plan was for early February, so a few weeks.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc.

I don't know, honestly, but let me have a go here...

RAID -- This is the thing where it either backs up your first drive or stores your data on both, right? I don't think I need this?

Firewire -- I don't know what Firewire is generally used for -- Google shows me a picture of a cable that I recognize as having used before and says something about IEEE 1394, but this doesn't help me much. I guess yes?

Crossfire/SLI -- No.

USB 3.0 -- yes. I'd like at least one of these because I'm hoping it will be nice in the future when more devices use it -- it's backwards compatible with 2.0 yes?

SATA 6GB/s -- No clue. My basic knowledge implies that this is usually used with a Hard Drive and I think the regular SATA is 3GB/s, so this seems like a good idea on the surface?

I'd also like to make sure I have enough ports for expansion later on if there is something I want to add or end up needing. My hope is to keep the processor/mobo combo for a long time and upgrade the other parts, so I'd prefer it didn't get dated.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

Not yet -- however eBay has what appear to be valid/legit/unopened copies of Windows 7 64bit going for under $100. I will make attempts to get one of those.

=~=~=~=~=~=~=​

I hope that wasn't too long. See, the thing is, I want to learn this stuff. I don't want to just get a list of parts and go out and buy them and stick them together -- I want to learn so I can look at parts suggestions and understand why these are the best suggestions. I've been reading metric tons of links it seems like, both here and elsewhere on the internet (Tom's Hardware comes to mind), but like most other things reading seems to be helpful only to a point.

Oh, and I don't expect full commentary from anyone really -- this is a lot of stuff to sort through -- but anything anyone wants to chime in with would be greatly appreciated.

** Please let me know if I should take part specific discussion to the sub-forums dedicated to those -- I was tempted but I didn't want to spam the forum with a bunch of posts as new as I am. **

CPU -- My understanding is that upgrading the CPU often requires upgrading the motherboard, which is a pain for various reasons. Working on this assumption I am planning to budget a good bit for a CPU and then upgrade other parts down the road as needed.

Is that a standard practice?

Currently I am looking at the various members of the i7 family. I don't think the i5 series offers hyper-threading and I'd like to make sure I'm future proof for any software I might need that actually takes advantage of HT.

i7-2600 ($300) -- The new Sandy Bridge tech. Seems to have a good price/performance ratio but I'm not sure if the extra cost over an older model is worth it.

Other ones to consider include the i7-870, but the price difference there is only $20 cheaper at Newegg so unless it drops now that the new ones are out I can't see that being worth it. It's also made on the older 45nm process, and I understand smaller is better.

I could also try saving money and getting a Xeon Quad-Core for around $200, but benchmarks here imply that it's already dated.

Motherboard ($125?) -- In the last week only I've learned that these have different sockets for different kinds of processors and some of them come with extras that others do not.

I think I need to figure out the processor before I graduate into selecting a motherboard, but if someone would tell me what ports I'm likely to want that would be brilliant.

Some of them have more or less PCI slots than others, for example, but I don't really know what I might put in those outside of the major parts. Are they used for expansion later?

My problem is that I'm too ignorant to know what I need half the time -- I don't know if I want HDMI or not, for example, but only about half the motherboards I looked at have it. And I've heard of HDMI, so it's safe to guess that its something I might miss having later if I don't get it.

I don't want to cut any more corners than I have to and wish I had something here later that I didn't get.

Graphics Card ($100-200) -- Games! Games are fun!

I'm mostly looking at three different cards at the moment, but other suggestions are welcome.

Radeon 5770 is the "cheap" one of the bunch at around ($130). I suspect this is sufficient for my gaming needs but I am not sure. Either way this is a part I intend to upgrade in 2 years or so.

Other options are the Geforce GTX 460 and the Radeon HD 6850. Both hover around the ($200) mark but are superior cards. I just don't know if I need these or not. I do know that they are extremely similar when only one card is being run at a time, but there must be some difference, even if not in games. Yes?

Oh, I guess I should say that I'd like to play WoW and SC2 at near-Max settings, and other games (like Dragon Age) at good settings.

I heard the 460 SE isn't worth it for the minor price cut and the 465 is a POS, but again, feel free to correct me if those are more worthwhile than I've read. I'm also open to buying an older graphics card (I heard the Radeon 4870 and Geforce GTX 285 are good) but Newegg and various other sites don't seem to sell those anymore, and I don't want a used one, so I don't know where to acquire them.

Also I notice a ton of different companies making the exact same card -- reading reviews implies that some run hotter than others, perform better than others, or are quieter than others of the same kind. I find this frustrating.

Power Supply ($75) -- Currently looking at Antec EarthWatts 650W. I think that should offer sufficient power, but I do want "room to grow" so to speak, so if a larger one would be in order I'd rather grab it now rather than later.

I've heard Corsair makes significantly better power supplies, is that worth the extra cost?

Case ($50) -- Open to suggestions here I reckon. I've never put things into a case before so I have little concept of what's needed. Roomy would be nice -- I don't want to feel cramped -- and something that comes with plenty of cooling/airflow. I had plenty of issues with overheating laptops and want to avoid heat in my desktop.

I have no intention of doing anything with water cooling or whatever fancy things there are, however it seems that some cases come with places for fans but that the actual fans don't always come in all the slots (I.e. a case with places for 4 fans that only comes with two) -- do I need to buy extras?

I'd prefer something basic and sturdy, without a lot of flashing lights, but the look of the case is not a vital aspect.

So far I've looked at the following... NZXT BETA EVO Classic, Cooler Master Centurion 534, Cooler Master Haf 912, & Various Antecs (200, 300, 900) on Newegg.

Memory ($50-100) -- Ok, so, I know if I try to do Tri Channel I need a special mobo for that, so I'm thinking it's better to stick with Dual Channel. Also DDR3>DDR2 methinks. My understanding is that Dual Channel works best in pairs while Tri works better in a Trio -- so you would buy 2, 4, or 8 GB for Dual and 3, 6, or 12 GB for Tri.

Does the speed of the RAM need to match, uh, the Front Side Bus (?) for optimal performance? If so, how do I find out that speed so I can match the RAM at 1333, 1600, or whatever up to it? Anything else I should know about optimizing RAM? I know these things aren't required to match, but if it works better that way when they not?

At the moment looking at buying either 4GB ($50), and upgrading later, or just picking up 8GB ($90) now. If I plan to upgrade later I need to be sure I have extra RAM slots on my mobo.

Hard Drive ($75-?) -- I'd like a Terabyte of space if possible, but honestly I don't care as much about the storage space as I do the performance. I'd rather have a 640GB with excellent performance than a 2TB that doesn't perform as well.

I also want the option of adding a Solid State Drive (SSD) later. I guess I need an extra slot on the Mobo for that? Granted I'm not sure how to xfer the installation of my OS or whatever else to the SSD from the, uh, other, but I'm sure I can google that.

Optical Drive ($25?) -- I like the idea of LightScribe but it's not a big issue. I would like a DVD-burner. If I wanted to have room for two drives in the future (to copy one disc to another directly for example) would that also require something else to be available on the motherboard?

Monitor (N/A)-- Quick question here -- I see these video cards say they can display like 2500x1600 or something for resolution, but as far as I know you can't force an LCD/LED monitor to display higher than it's listed rating (usually 1920x1080 lately) -- or can you? I've love to turn up my resolution so I can have more publications open on the screen at the same time for reading/writing.

Other ($?) -- Network card? Memory Card Reader? Wireless Card? Do I need extra spots for those on the Mobo if I decide I need/want them in the future? What else am I missing? Sound card? Is it worth getting one of those instead of using the onboard option? If so does there have to be room for that? I need to use a microphone and headphones regularly.

What about Thermal Paste -- do things come with that or do I have to buy it or ... what? I don't think most folks have to put it on Desktops they purchase regularly, so it is a one time thing?

As for other things I want (reading here) I just don't know if I want/need half of that or not, because despite reading Wikipedia I don't have a good grasp on all of it. I feel out of my depth here -- but extremely determined.

TOTAL: $755-1000+ not including whatever I can get Win7 for off of eBay.

Thank you in advance for any help that is offered, trust me, it's greatly appreciated. I have a lot of questions about how things work and what's best and ideal and whatnot, as you can see above, so really anything is excellent given my basic starting knowledge (I find that most websites assume I know more than I do when I read articles trying to explain things to me). But anyway, I love discussion and debate, and I eagerly await... uh, damnit, what else rhymes?

Cheers folks.

 

[Dangman]

First and foremost: Welcome to the forum! Hope you learn something here!

No. As far as I know this isn't worth it and decreases the lifetime of the parts -- please correct if wrong.

RAID -- This is the thing where it either backs up your first drive or stores your data on both, right? I don't think I need this?

Firewire -- I don't know what Firewire is generally used for -- Google shows me a picture of a cable that I recognize as having used before and says something about IEEE 1394, but this doesn't help me much. I guess yes?

USB 3.0 -- yes. I'd like at least one of these because I'm hoping it will be nice in the future when more devices use it -- it's backwards compatible with 2.0 yes?

Yes

SATA 6GB/s -- No clue. My basic knowledge implies that this is usually used with a Hard Drive and I think the regular SATA is 3GB/s, so this seems like a good idea on the surface?

Only really useful if you're getting a high-end SSD.

I hope that wasn't too long. See, the thing is, I want to learn this stuff. I don't want to just get a list of parts and go out and buy them and stick them together -- I want to learn so I can look at parts suggestions and understand why these are the best suggestions. I've been reading metric tons of links it seems like, both here and elsewhere on the internet (Tom's Hardware comes to mind), but like most other things reading seems to be helpful only to a point.

For future reference, take whatever is written or stated at the Tom's hardware with a grain of salt. They're not that reliable or as accurate several several years back.

CPU -- My understanding is that upgrading the CPU often requires upgrading the motherboard, which is a pain for various reasons. Working on this assumption I am planning to budget a good bit for a CPU and then upgrade other parts down the road as needed.

Is that a standard practice?

Basically yes. Generally, if you start off with a decent enough CPU, you can definitely hold off on upgrading it later on. It's usually video cards that requires constant upgrades or so.

i7-2600 ($300) -- The new Sandy Bridge tech. Seems to have a good price/performance ratio but I'm not sure if the extra cost over an older model is worth it.

Other ones to consider include the i7-870, but the price difference there is only $20 cheaper at Newegg so unless it drops now that the new ones are out I can't see that being worth it. It's also made on the older 45nm process, and I understand smaller is better.

The Core i7 2600K has a significantly better price to performance ratio than any of the Core i7 8xx or 9xx CPUs. So the i7 2600K is definitely the CPU you want to get.

Motherboard ($125?) -- In the last week only I've learned that these have different sockets for different kinds of processors and some of them come with extras that others do not.

I think I need to figure out the processor before I graduate into selecting a motherboard, but if someone would tell me what ports I'm likely to want that would be brilliant.

Some of them have more or less PCI slots than others, for example, but I don't really know what I might put in those outside of the major parts. Are they used for expansion later?

My problem is that I'm too ignorant to know what I need half the time -- I don't know if I want HDMI or not, for example, but only about half the motherboards I looked at have it. And I've heard of HDMI, so it's safe to guess that its something I might miss having later if I don't get it.

I don't want to cut any more corners than I have to and wish I had something here later that I didn't get.

Well you want a socket LGA 1155 motherboard using either the P67 or H67 chipset as that's compatible with the i7 2600K CPUs. Yes PCI and PCI-E are used for future expansion later. Like sound cards, storage controllers, USB controllers, TV Tuners, etc. Don't worry if it doesn't have many or no PCI slots as that's on the way out now. PCI-E x1 is basically the future standard for most non-video card expansion cards

If you're gaming, that means you'll be using a seperate GPU. Which means that having HDMI is utterly useless to you since, AFAIK, you can't use the onbaord GPU of the Core i7 2600 CPUs alongside a dedicated video card. So HDMI is not needed or even usable in your case.

I'm mostly looking at three different cards at the moment, but other suggestions are welcome.

Radeon 5770 is the "cheap" one of the bunch at around ($130). I suspect this is sufficient for my gaming needs but I am not sure. Either way this is a part I intend to upgrade in 2 years or so.

Other options are the Geforce GTX 460 and the Radeon HD 6850. Both hover around the ($200) mark but are superior cards. I just don't know if I need these or not. I do know that they are extremely similar when only one card is being run at a time, but there must be some difference, even if not in games. Yes?

Oh, I guess I should say that I'd like to play WoW and SC2 at near-Max settings, and other games (like Dragon Age) at good settings.

While the HD 5770 1GB would be more than enough for SC2 at 1920x1080 (typical resolution of 23" and 24" monitors these days), it will struggle with games like WOW and Dragon Age at that resolution. So I recommend the HD 6850 1GB or the GTX 460 1GB if it's cheaper as the lowest cards needed for medium to high settings for that resolution. Also note that if you spend any more than $200 SHIPPED for a HD 6850 1GB or GTX 460 1GB card, you're getting ripped off. If there's room in the budget, I would edge towards the $240 HD 6870 card.

Power Supply ($75) -- Currently looking at Antec EarthWatts 650W. I think that should offer sufficient power, but I do want "room to grow" so to speak, so if a larger one would be in order I'd rather grab it now rather than later.

I've heard Corsair makes significantly better power supplies, is that worth the extra cost?

That Antec PSU will be enough for your current setup. However, its lower amount of amperage on the +12V rail will limit future upgrades. So in this case, the Corsair 650TX would be a better choice:
$90 - Corsair 650TX 650W PSU

$13 more and you get better quality and more amperage on the +12V rail which means more room for future upgrades. For future reference, the Corsair 650TX has 52A on the +12V rail whereas the Antec Earthwatts has 45A on the +12V rail. So even though they're rated at the same wattage, the Corsair PSU technically has more power than the Antec where it counts.

I'd prefer something basic and sturdy, without a lot of flashing lights, but the look of the case is not a vital aspect.

So far I've looked at the following... NZXT BETA EVO Classic, Cooler Master Centurion 534, Cooler Master Haf 912, & Various Antecs (200, 300, 900) on Newegg.

Avoid the Antec 900 case. It's simply not a good choice for the money. The HAF 912 would be my pick out of those three cases.

Memory ($50-100) -- Ok, so, I know if I try to do Tri Channel I need a special mobo for that, so I'm thinking it's better to stick with Dual Channel. Also DDR3>DDR2 methinks. My understanding is that Dual Channel works best in pairs while Tri works better in a Trio -- so you would buy 2, 4, or 8 GB for Dual and 3, 6, or 12 GB for Tri.

The Core i7 2600K only supports dual channel RAM setups and DDR3 RAM so that kind of seals everything for you right there.

Does the speed of the RAM need to match, uh, the Front Side Bus (?) for optimal performance? If so, how do I find out that speed so I can match the RAM at 1333, 1600, or whatever up to it? Anything else I should know about optimizing RAM? I know these things aren't required to match, but if it works better that way when they not?

No. Honestly, no matter what the platform, the answer is the same: DDR3 1333 RAM is all that you need. Maybe DDR3 1600 RAM if you're planning on overclocking. Timings do no matter that much.

At the moment looking at buying either 4GB ($50), and upgrading later, or just picking up 8GB ($90) now. If I plan to upgrade later I need to be sure I have extra RAM slots on my mobo.

I recommend this RAM:
$90 - G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9D-8GBRL 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM


Hard Drive ($75-?) -- I'd like a Terabyte of space if possible, but honestly I don't care as much about the storage space as I do the performance. I'd rather have a 640GB with excellent performance than a 2TB that doesn't perform as well.[/QUOTE]
This hard drive has one of the best bang for the buck performance out there:
$70 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

I also want the option of adding a Solid State Drive (SSD) later. I guess I need an extra slot on the Mobo for that?

You just need an extra SATA port for a SSD.

Optical Drive ($25?) -- I like the idea of LightScribe but it's not a big issue. I would like a DVD-burner. If I wanted to have room for two drives in the future (to copy one disc to another directly for example) would that also require something else to be available on the motherboard?

You just need two spare SATA ports on the motherboard to fit two SATA DVD burners. For DVD burners, they're basically the same IMO. So just go for the cheapest one with free shipping from Newegg and call it day.

Monitor (N/A)-- Quick question here -- I see these video cards say they can display like 2500x1600 or something for resolution, but as far as I know you can't force an LCD/LED monitor to display higher than it's listed rating (usually 1920x1080 lately) -- or can you? I've love to turn up my resolution so I can have more publications open on the screen at the same time for reading/writing.

You can't.

Other ($?) -- Network card? Memory Card Reader? Wireless Card? Do I need extra spots for those on the Mobo if I decide I need/want them in the future? What else am I missing? Sound card? Is it worth getting one of those instead of using the onboard option? If so does there have to be room for that? I need to use a microphone and headphones regularly.

Well most motherboards these days comes with an acceptable NIC (Network Interface Card FYI) so no real need to buy an Intel network card (Pretty much the best option for a 3rd party NIC) unless you're doing a lot of LAN transfers between your PC and another on your network. You just need a spare PCI-E x1 slot for that in that case.

You basically need extra PCI-E x1 slots for the Wireless card or sound card. You don't need a dedicated sound card unless you have a very high-end or excellent speaker setup and/or you're an audiophile.

What about Thermal Paste -- do things come with that or do I have to buy it or ... what? I don't think most folks have to put it on Desktops they purchase regularly, so it is a one time thing?

The stock HSF comes with thermal paste. You don't need to buy additional thermal paste unless you're planning on taking apart the PC multiple times.

 

[OrangeWolf]

Danny Bui... you, sir, are a godsend. Thank you. Especially for taking time to explain things like why one 650W PSU is a significant upgrade over another, similar, one. The things you commented on were exactly the type of feedback I was hoping to get -- excellent suggestions along with good explanations for why.

I'll comment more tonight or tomorrow once I've nailed down the build a bit more.

More comments from others are always welcome!

Cheers

 

[bastage]

While the HD 5770 1GB would be more than enough for SC2 at 1920x1080 (typical resolution of 23" and 24" monitors these days), it will struggle with games like WOW and Dragon Age at that resolution. So I recommend the HD 6850 1GB or the GTX 460 1GB if it's cheaper as the lowest cards needed for medium to high settings for that resolution. Also note that if you spend any more than $200 SHIPPED for a HD 6850 1GB or GTX 460 1GB card, you're getting ripped off. If there's room in the budget, I would edge towards the $240 HD 6870 card.

Your either overestimating a 5770 or under estimating SC2.. I had a 5770 with SC2 & although it was playable at 19x12 if I wanted anything better then medium I had to turn the res down.. The 6850 or GTX460 are at the minimum I would recommend for a gaming rig currently.. I Agree though if you can swing the 6870 or even better a 6950 then it would be a good choice to do.

 

[Dangman]

Your either overestimating a 5770 or under estimating SC2.. I had a 5770 with SC2 & although it was playable at 19x12 if I wanted anything better then medium I had to turn the res down.

Nah, just basing it on all those reviews that I think you showed me showing that the HD 4850 was more than enough for 1920x1080 SC2 gaming. Since the HD 4850 < HD 5770...

 

[tiraides]

One caveat about the GTX 460: Lately, there has been a GTX 460 SE model available for around $150-$170. While it has 1GB of 265-bit GDDR5 memory, it has lower clock speeds and less shader processors than the "normal" 1GB model. (To put into perspective, the 768MB model has the same speeds as the "normal" 1GB card.) Not-so-coincidentally, the "normal" 1GB GTX 460 has recently jumped up to around $180 to $230 depending on the brand and features.

Having said all of that, I agree with Danny Bui: If you're spending more than $210 anyways, go for a better video card.

 

[Ultima99]

Since you arent buying right away I feel I should mention that Nvidia is expected to release the GTX 560 within 2 weeks. You would be remiss to not check out this option when it becomes available.

 

[rpchip]

Orangewolf, do you live anywhere near Leake county.

 

[OrangeWolf]

@rpchip -- Depends on how you define close. I live in Hattiesburg.

@Ultima99 -- Thanks! New releases are always helpful. I think I'm going to set myself a max of $200ish for a Graphics card. Assuming that the new card is not in that price range, would it cause the prices of the others to drop soon after release? That would be well worth watching for either way.

@Tiraides -- Thanks for the extra info there. Explains some stuff I was reading through earlier when looking at cards.

@Bastage -- Nice input from someone actually playing the games. Much appreciated.

Ok, let's try this again. Working with the posts here, Danny Bui's in particular, and the responses I got from two of my friends...

Processor: Still up in the air here. If the i7-2600k is truly that much of an upgrade of the i7-2600, then for only $30 it replaces that one on the list as my "expensive option" and moves into my "most likely to purchase" position.

Let me ask this though -- what's the best sub-$250 option out there right now? There are a plethora of i5-processors hovering around the $200 range, including the newer ones, as well as older i7-processors. That doesn't even touch on last generation Xeon chips, which I understand are generally solid despite their age.

I can look at benchmarks here, but that doesn't tell me much about future-proofing (and wow, look at that i7-2600k go!) and other aspects.

Motherboard: Assuming an i7-2600k processor, I checked out P67 and H67 motherboards as Danny Bui said and tentatively added an ASUS P8P67 to my list. It appears to have lots of ports.

The all-mighty Google says that the primary difference in P67 and H67 is that only the H67 can make use of the on-board graphics that come with the Processor, while P67 requires a Discrete card. Is there anything else I should be aware of there? I.e. One or the other preferred for any reason given that I'll be using a Discrete GPU anyway?

On HDMI -- is the reason that I don't need it / it's unusable in my case because there's going to be a port for that on the Graphics Card? I think I misunderstood in my first read of the thread and thought that I would be unable to use HDMI at all, but you were speaking in terms of using it directly with the Mobo I think? If so, that now makes perfect sense -- thank you again.

Graphics Card: Same as my original post. 5770 vs. 6850 vs. GTX 460 -- Leaning strongly towards the 6850, unless the release of the 560 in approx. two weeks drops the cost of other cards into my price range.

Am I right in assuming that simply picking the cheapest 6850 on the internet isn't the best option? Glancing through reviews I see that some of them have complaints of being loud while others are praised for being quiet, so apparently just being a "Radeon 6850" isn't good enough. Any particular brands have the best reputation?

I'd like to get something even nicer, but I expect that anything will be impressive given my past gaming standards. To date I have never gamed on anything but a Laptop, and while my laptop is nice (Thinkpad FTW) I've always kept settings at Low-Fair for optimal performance.

Power Supply: Corsair 650TX as per Danny Bui's recommendation and information. However someone elsewhere did strongly recommend a Modular Power Supply, which I think this isn't. As far as I can tell Modular is a difference with the cables that makes things more convenient?

Case: Same as above, more or less. For now leaning towards the Haf 912 unless I hear other cases recommended. I'll read reviews to make sure no one is complaining about their RAM/Mobo/GPU not fitting properly.

Memory: Tentatively 2x4GB Ripjaws as suggested earlier. If this build doesn't get too expensive I might up it to 1600 in case I ever decide to overclock, but this looks like good RAM for a good price.

What's with the Voltage, Latency, and Timing with RAM? I see those stats listed by each one.

Hard Drive: Samsung Spinpoint F3 looks like a brilliant recommendation. Definitely getting one.

After talking to a friend I'm strongly considering going ahead and getting an SSD for this build instead of adding one later. Apparently if you want to run your OS off of the SSD it can be a pain to re-install/transfer it from one Hard Drive to another. How big is Windows 7 these days? I'm guessing I'd want a 64GB drive, if not more, so I have room for other programs as well.

Any suggestions? Tentatively looking at a Crucial 64GB. Adding an extra $120+ for this may or may not happen though, depending on my final build -- this is purely in the land of "Oh, wouldn't it be nice if..." My Mobo did have a 6Gb/s slot though, so I'm guessing this one is a good choice to go with that?

Thanks again folks!

Edit: Not that any of you need this, but someone linked me this Logical PC Buying Guide and I found it a very interesting representation. I don't doubt it's far from perfect, but I still found it in an interesting read. They do suggest allocating more money towards a GPU than CPU for gaming, which explains all of the gaming builds I've seen, but I'm guessing they aren't as future proof for upgrades. I hope I'm not going overboard on my processor though -- it just looks so shiny!

 

[Dangman]

Processor: Still up in the air here. If the i7-2600k is truly that much of an upgrade of the i7-2600, then for only $30 it replaces that one on the list as my "expensive option" and moves into my "most likely to purchase" position.

The i7 2600K and i7 2600 are exactly the same CPU in virtually every way but one: you can overclock the i7-2600K whereas the i7-2600 you can't.

Let me ask this though -- what's the best sub-$250 option out there right now? There are a plethora of i5-processors hovering around the $200 range, including the newer ones, as well as older i7-processors. That doesn't even touch on last generation Xeon chips, which I understand are generally solid despite their age.

Hands down, it's the Core i5-2500K or i5 2500K CPU. Again, don't bother AT ALL looking at the Core i5 7xx or 6xx CPUs or the Core i7 8xx or 9xx CPUs. They are not worth buying any more now that the Core i5-2xxx and Core i7-2xxx series CPUs are out.

Motherboard: Assuming an i7-2600k processor, I checked out P67 and H67 motherboards as Danny Bui said and tentatively added an ASUS P8P67 to my list. It appears to have lots of ports.

Looks like an ok motherboard but right now, not the best choice considering that you can get the better Asus P8P67 PRO for just $17 more once you factor in shipping plus a free game:
$380 - Intel Core i5-2500K CPU + Asus P8P67 PRO Intel P67 ATX Motherboard Combo
$495 - Intel Core i5-2600K CPU + Asus P8P67 PRO Intel P67 ATX Motherboard Combo

Do note that the above combo deals expire on January 31st and there is no guarantee that a similar combo deal will be available in February.

The all-mighty Google says that the primary difference in P67 and H67 is that only the H67 can make use of the on-board graphics that come with the Processor, while P67 requires a Discrete card. Is there anything else I should be aware of there? I.e. One or the other preferred for any reason given that I'll be using a Discrete GPU anyway?

Well, the H67 route would give you onboard video as a backup just in case your video card dies for whatever reason.

On HDMI -- is the reason that I don't need it / it's unusable in my case because there's going to be a port for that on the Graphics Card? I think I misunderstood in my first read of the thread and thought that I would be unable to use HDMI at all, but you were speaking in terms of using it directly with the Mobo I think? If so, that now makes perfect sense -- thank you again.

Yeah you won't be able to use the HDMI port on the motherboard if you install a dedicated video card.

Am I right in assuming that simply picking the cheapest 6850 on the internet isn't the best option? Glancing through reviews I see that some of them have complaints of being loud while others are praised for being quiet, so apparently just being a "Radeon 6850" isn't good enough. Any particular brands have the best reputation?

Gigabyte and Asus have a good reputation for video cards as well. XFX is good but been seeing a lot QC issues with them lately. I only recommend Sapphire or HIS if the budget is REALLY tight.

Power Supply: Corsair 650TX as per Danny Bui's recommendation and information. However someone elsewhere did strongly recommend a Modular Power Supply, which I think this isn't. As far as I can tell Modular is a difference with the cables that makes things more convenient?

Modular means that you can remove the PSU cables from the PSU and therefore allow for really easy cable management and possible airflow issues. Modular PSUs do tend to cost a bit more than their non-modular counterparts:
$100 - XFX P1-650X-CAH9 650W Modular PSU
$100 - XFX P1-650X-CAG9 650W Modular PSU
$120 - Corsair 650HX 650W Modular PSU

What's with the Voltage, Latency, and Timing with RAM? I see those stats listed by each one.

Basically, all you need to know for current hardware, get the low voltage you can get for a reasonable price (1.5V is just fine) and latency and timings don't really matter that much in games.

After talking to a friend I'm strongly considering going ahead and getting an SSD for this build instead of adding one later. Apparently if you want to run your OS off of the SSD it can be a pain to re-install/transfer it from one Hard Drive to another. How big is Windows 7 these days? I'm guessing I'd want a 64GB drive, if not more, so I have room for other programs as well.

Yeah I'd recommend a 64GB SSD minimum. Stick with that Crucial SSD for now. However do note that both Crucial and Intel are releasing newer and faster versions of their current SSD lineup in a few months from now.

Edit: Not that any of you need this, but someone linked me this Logical PC Buying Guide and I found it a very interesting representation. I don't doubt it's far from perfect, but I still found it in an interesting read. They do suggest allocating more money towards a GPU than CPU for gaming, which explains all of the gaming builds I've seen, but I'm guessing they aren't as future proof for upgrades. I hope I'm not going overboard on my processor though -- it just looks so shiny!
[/I]

Yeah I have a few issues with that list. Take it with a grain of salt.

As for the CPU VS GPU spending debate, it really depends on the persons's short-term and long-term plans with that
gaming PC. If they just want a huge short-term advantage, then definitely spend more on the GPU. However the long-term plan would be to spend a decent amount on the CPU and then the GPU. Video cards depreciate rather fast compared to other PC parts.

 

[Ultima99]

The best guesses for 560 pricing are from $199-229 so it might be in your range. There is a good chance it will cause some price decreases on other cards.

 

[OrangeWolf]

Again, don't bother AT ALL looking at the Core i5 7xx or 6xx CPUs or the Core i7 8xx or 9xx CPUs. They are not worth buying any more now that the Core i5-2xxx and Core i7-2xxx series CPUs are out.

*nod* Got it. I'll get one of the new CPUs for certain sure. Thanks.

In fact, I really like your combos. Civ5 is one of the few games I've seen in a Newegg combo that I'd actually play and was considering buying, so that's a real bonus. I'll probably pick one of those up before the Deal expires even if I haven't bought all the other parts yet. *thumbs up*

Thanks for the information on the Modular units. Not sure what I'll do there but since Corsair makes good options for both I can pick any of the ones listed, modular or not, and turn out well. That's one more thing I can cross off the list.

Basically, all you need to know for current hardware, get the low voltage you can get for a reasonable price (1.5V is just fine) and latency and timings don't really matter that much in games.

Fair enough. Gaming isn't the primary purpose of this computer, but it might be the only thing that is truly taxing for a while.

However do note that both Crucial and Intel are releasing newer and faster versions of their current SSD lineup in a few months from now.

Awesome info to have -- in that case I might wait since money won't be as tight. Stupid Question incoming: How difficult/irritating would it be to buy an SSD in a few months and transfer my OS (and some programs) to the SSD from the regular hard drive?

I need to go read an article on BIOS or something. I think there's something in there where you can tell a computer to boot from somewhere different (like those flash drive recovery things).

...If they just want a huge short-term advantage, then definitely spend more on the GPU. However the long-term plan would be to spend a decent amount on the CPU and then the GPU.

Thanks. In that case I'll stick with the direction I've been going. Gaming is a fun pastime for me, not something I want to do hardcore or stay on the cutting edge of.

@Ultima99 -- Sweet. I'll wait to pick up a GPU til that's out, either for the new one or to get hopefully a cheaper price on the first.

 

[bastage]

So after reviewing the thread with talk of SSD's & a 200 dollar GPU I assume the 900 dollar budget is gone?

Anyhow I just spec'd this system along the lines of the thread. Biggest change you will notice is I droped from the 2600k to the 2500k.. Reason was the price difference was pretty much enough to cover the SSD & no matter which way you slice it you will get more gain from the SSD then you will from Hyperthreading..

390 Intel Core i5-2500K + ASUS P8P67 PRO + Sid Meier's Civilization V
80 G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
180 GIGABYTE GV-R685D5-1GD Radeon HD 6850 1GB
135 Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1 2.5" 64GB
55 SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB (promo code HARDOCP112C)
70 Antec NEO ECO 620C 620W
50 COOLER MASTER HAF 912

Shipped total of 972.81.. In addition you will still need a cooler if your gonna OC & an optical drive. But from the discussion of your needs & wants I think this is best value for the money.. & a 64gb SSD should be enough for OS & almost all apps other then games.

 

[OrangeWolf]

Aye, Bastage, that's what I'm looking at. Thanks for condensing it so well. I tend to talk a lot instead of doing that. The $900 was a general target moreso than a hard max (I lucked up and won $900 at the Casino in late November).

$21 -- LiteOn Optical Drive with excellent reviews.

I don't plan on OverClocking, at least not at this time.

I just realized that I don't own a keyboard. I'll probably order one from Thinkpad's website.

I've got a bit of time to kill if I wait for the 560 release to see what prices do, though I might go ahead and order. I'm really satisfied with this build I think. At present the only thing I might change is waiting on the SSD until the nicer/faster ones come out (and 2500k vs. 2600k).

Thanks much. This forum has been exponentially more helpful than I had hoped.

 

[bastage]

Honestly 90% of the people who buy the 2600k over the 2500k will never actually do anything with a noticeable difference outside of benchmarks. The bottom line is there both bloody hell fast. With SSD's if you have never used one before then you could be going to basically ANY 2nd gen SSD & be very very happy with the results. I have had several & can tell you that unless I am running benchmarks an SSD is an SSD is an SSD.. I know others have said they could tell the difference in day to day use. But even on the lowest of them (intel x25v) everything loaded as fast as I could click. & The fastest being raid 0 intel's it felt the same.

 

[TType85]

I would avoid getting your windows from ebay. I know a few people who ended up getting counterfit copies. When you are buying your parts you can get something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ows_7_home_premium_oem-_-32-116-754-_-Product

 

[bastage]

I would avoid getting your windows from ebay. I know a few people who ended up getting counterfit copies. When you are buying your parts you can get something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ows_7_home_premium_oem-_-32-116-754-_-Product

I agree on this.. the resk isnt worth the few bucks you save.. If your a student though you can get it cheaper (65 bucks)

 

[OrangeWolf]

I agree on this.. the resk isnt worth the few bucks you save.. If your a student though you can get it cheaper (65 bucks)

I'd love to know how -- best I can figure out on getting it for being a student is getting the upgrades for cheaper. I haven't been able to find a discounted Full Version that way, just Upgrades. I'm a Graduate Student if that matters (but not for much longer, yay).

I'm hesitant to spend more than $100 on the OS but I shouldn't be -- in the end I might do as you say and just pick it up properly. Thanks for the link.

 

[bastage]

Microsoft had it avail for 65 as long as you have a .edu email.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[OrangeWolf]

I think that deal ended before I even knew I'd be purchasing a computer (if it's still available, I'd love a link). I will drop someone an e-mail at Microsoft (or else just call if I can't find the right e-mail to use) and ask. I have the required .edu e-mail. Cheers

 

[Deleted member 88227]

Welcome my fellow Mississippian.

 

[bastage]

I think that deal ended before I even knew I'd be purchasing a computer (if it's still available, I'd love a link). I will drop someone an e-mail at Microsoft (or else just call if I can't find the right e-mail to use) and ask. I have the required .edu e-mail. Cheers

It is an upgrade currently.. but google it & there are ways around the actual "upgrade". You can do a clean install.

http://www.microsoft.com/student/en/us/software/windows/default.aspx

 

[OrangeWolf]

It is an upgrade currently.. but google it & there are ways around the actual "upgrade". You can do a clean install.

http://www.microsoft.com/student/en/us/software/windows/default.aspx

Ok -- I can get a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit Upgrade for $20 via someone I know, but I told them not to bother since I needed to install cleanly.

You mean that I can buy that upgrade and actually use it for a clean install instead of an Upgrade? Going to go google that right now.

Found this -- seems like you aren't really supposed to do it in many situations. Talks a lot about what is or isn't eligible for an upgrade. Apparently it's fairly easy to get 'round that though if you wanted to. Speaking of, I do have an old laptop that I'm not using (it's got broken fans and other issues and only turns on sometimes) -- but it has Windows XP on it. Could I call Microsoft and get permission to re-install that OS on another computer (and therefore have a valid license) or does it not really work that way?

Edit: *wave* Skillz

 

[bastage]

In order to do it legally you would need to have a legal & fully transferable OS that you "could" install on the new system. Though you would never actually need to install it.

 

[OrangeWolf]

Yeah I'm gonna go with doing it legally. But I'm going to check all the old computers I can find lying around and see if I can locate one with XP that I legally re-install elsewhere then use the Ultimate 64bit upgrade. That's a hell of a good thing to know man -- because I can get the upgrade so cheaply. *thumbs up*

Edit: SSD question -- I'm probably going to pick one up for OS/applications (Windows, Photoshop, Spartan, etc.) but when I mentioned this to someone they immediately said that I should not put my games on it as well, only other applications. Something about read/write and how SSDs don't like being constantly read, which is apparently what games do, and that I shouldn't use it for those. Is that accurate? I did google it but got varied results with that and not sure what to trust from the internet at large.

 

[Deleted member 88227]

^^Not true. They are only limited by size, so you just can't put much stuff on them.

The Intel SSDs are much more reliable in frequent read/write and handling "deleting" of things that need deleting than most other drives. From what I've read on here.

 

[bastage]

Yeah ssd's are limited by size. Typically you out games on another drive because there huge in comparison. If you had the cash to spend on a really big ssd there is no reason not to install games on an ssd.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[rpchip]

Orangewolf about a 100 miles north difference.

 

[OrangeWolf]

@Skillz & Bastage -- OK, good to know. I was thinking more like I'd put Windows, a few smaller applications I use regularly, and WoW on it (75% of my gaming) and all the rest on the Samsung F3. Depending on size though might not be worth it. Thanks!

@Rpchip -- Haha, yeah I know where Leake is . When I said it depends on your definition of close I just meant that we're close by standards of the rest of the forum, but not close enough that we could have run into each other at lunch. Nice to see another Mississippian here though!

 

[bastage]

Wow gets huge gains from being on an ssd. That being said its a huge game. But if you have the space its a good move.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[Deleted member 88227]

@Skillz & Bastage -- OK, good to know. I was thinking more like I'd put Windows, a few smaller applications I use regularly, and WoW on it (75% of my gaming) and all the rest on the Samsung F3. Depending on size though might not be worth it. Thanks!

@Rpchip -- Haha, yeah I know where Leake is . When I said it depends on your definition of close I just meant that we're close by standards of the rest of the forum, but not close enough that we could have run into each other at lunch. Nice to see another Mississippian here though!

No doubt, I'm in Biloxi/Ocean Springs

 

[OrangeWolf]

Bump time!

I had an issue with my payment method that has now been sorted out (hopefully) so I can finally order. However I wanted to run the final build by you all once again just in case something has changed in the past 2 weeks or so and there are better deals out there. I intend to order this weekend (as some of the deals end on the 31st).


$390 - Combo w/ Intel i5 2500k + Asus Mobo + Civ5
$180 - Gigabyte Radeon 6850
$85 - Ripjaws RAM 8GB (2x4GB)
$60 - Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB
$90 - Corsair 650W Power Supply
$60 - CoolerMaster HAF 912
$25 - DVD-burner Optical Drive
$40 - Thinkpad Keyboard

Total: $930


I don't think I'm missing anything but, as is obvious from reading this thread, I'm really very new to this.

Is that good RAM for the price? Or is there a better cheaper option? Also I know the low voltage is good, but the ... er, CAS latency and timings? Those confuse me but it looks like good RAM. There are some cheaper ones without heatsinks around also.

I don't want to pay more than $200 for the graphics card, but some of the cheaper 6870s are edging down into that range now -- but I'm hesitant to buy a "cheap" 6870 over a quality 6850. Opinions? I'll be using 1920x1080 resolution most likely.

650W will really be fine, even if I upgrade later and add more Hard drives and better graphics and whatever else? I debated modular but if the cords are detachable I'll probably lose them.

I decided to wait on an SSD -- from what I've read on these forums most people are waiting for the new things coming out in a few months. My original target price was $900 anyway -- though it can stretch to $1100 for good reasons.

I don't know where to get a quality keyboard for $40 or less except from Thinkpad. I like the typing feeling with "clicky" keys and I like having media keys to manage my music players without tabbing out.

Let me know if I missed anything (I have an OS now).

Any last minute suggestions are welcome -- Thanks again guys!

Edit: Oh! Thermal paste?

 

[Dangman]

Is that good RAM for the price? Or is there a better cheaper option? Also I know the low voltage is good, but the ... er, CAS latency and timings? Those confuse me but it looks like good RAM. There are some cheaper ones without heatsinks around also.

That's good RAM for the price. Though if you don't need fancy heatsink, yes you can save $7 bygoing with this set:
$78 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

I don't want to pay more than $200 for the graphics card, but some of the cheaper 6870s are edging down into that range now -- but I'm hesitant to buy a "cheap" 6870 over a quality 6850. Opinions? I'll be using 1920x1080 resolution most likely.

Really it depends on what matters more to you: Sheer performance or good cooling and good warranty/support. At your resolution, every bit of GPU power is needed.

650W will really be fine, even if I upgrade later and add more Hard drives and better graphics and whatever else? I debated modular but if the cords are detachable I'll probably lose them.

It'll be ok but a larger PSU is only $20 more :
$110 - Corsair 750TX 750W PSU

Edit: Oh! Thermal paste?

The stock paste will be fine.

 

[OrangeWolf]

Thanks again Danny -- your posts are always awesome. I think I'm going to bump up to a 750W -- with no idea of my upgrade path it seems the safest route, but we shall see. Thanks for confirmation 650W *would* work.

I'll check prices and reviews on cheaper 6870's tonight -- reading around this forum people seem to think it's a fairly significant step-up.

Here's a quick n00bie software question -- I have legit. copies of Photoshop, Chemdraw, etc. that haven't been installed on a computer yet and am planning on putting them on this one. If I buy an SSD in 6 months and re-install Windows on that (removing it from the F3 drive) I can re-install those right?

Thanks yet again [H]ard Forum. Looks like I'm finally almost ready to have all these parts arrive so I can screw up putting them together ^^.

 

[Dangman]

Here's a quick n00bie software question -- I have legit. copies of Photoshop, Chemdraw, etc. that haven't been installed on a computer yet and am planning on putting them on this one. If I buy an SSD in 6 months and re-install Windows on that (removing it from the F3 drive) I can re-install those right?

Probably.

 

[tonytnnt]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there's any difference between these two sets of RAM besides the fact that one is on sale:

$55 - G.SKILL Value Series F3-10666CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$78 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

Be sure to use the coupon code referenced here to take 15% off the memory price, bringing it down to $55.25 with free slow shipping. This deal won't last for very long though as you're stacking a coupon that expires today with a Newegg Shell Shocker (which is also a limited time deal.) The coupon is good on all Newegg RAM though. Only a $20 savings, but you can put that toward your OS, or get a good dinner out of it.

 

[E4g1e]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there's any difference between these two sets of RAM besides the fact that one is on sale:

$55 - G.SKILL Value Series F3-10666CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$78 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

Be sure to use the coupon code referenced here to take 15% off the memory price, bringing it down to $55.25 with free slow shipping. This deal won't last for very long though as you're stacking a coupon that expires today with a Newegg Shell Shocker (which is also a limited time deal.) The coupon is good on all Newegg RAM though. Only a $20 savings, but you can put that toward your OS, or get a good dinner out of it.

Both are fine, but the PC3-10600 is the one to choose to minimize the risk of a POST failure in certain systems.

 

[J Macker]

The Spinpoint F4 2TB drive is roughly the same performance as the F3 1TB and it's usually around $80.

I'd wait to buy it for $80. It's a good way to spend $20.

Also, because the 6950 is only $260 after rebate, that's only spending $80 more for a much more powerful video card. Flash it to a 6970 and you're sitting at top of the hill.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...1355&cm_re=radeon_6950-_-14-161-355-_-Product

I think it's $80 well justified.

 

[OrangeWolf]

@E4g1e -- I don't know what a POST failure is. Is that when the computer is supposed to beep at start-up or something? I will google it later. But worth the extra $15 for the POST-friendly RAM?

@J Macker -- I don't know what "flashing" is (unless we're talking about nudity). Some form of over-clocking? Is there any advantage to the F4 other than more space? I'm pushing 300GB with my external files included so space isn't a huge issue right now if I get at least a 500GB option.

As for the upgrades suggested, well, I'm really trying to figure out what I need to have an enjoyable experience for a few years without going over and buying parts I won't need and/or notice (especially if I replace the GPU in two years anyway). I want to get as good of quality parts as I can so the number of things I want to replace in 2 years is minimal (and perhaps limited to the GPU).

It's really easy for me to talk myself into a nicer GPU, an SSD, $20 here, $80 there, etc. Because I can afford it. I'm not rich but I could stretch my budget by a few hundred dollars if I thought I needed to -- but I'm not sure if I do or not because I've never owned a Desktop to know what to really expect in comparison. I've run SC2 at 1920x1080 resolution on a 23" LCD monitor with my current laptop graphics card (Quadro FX 570m -- 256MB? or 512?) and I thought it hummed along just fine -- I wished I could have turned the graphics up past Low-Fair, but as far as as FPS and gameplay went I thought it was good. Platinum League in 2v2 and Gold for 1v1 at least. So I think the 6950/6870 might be a hell of a lot better card, but I'm not sure if I'd notice or miss it in comparison to the 6850 for the next two years or so given where I am coming from. It's just too hard for me to envision the differences since I've never experienced high-end gameplay. I'm willing to be convinced though -- Oh, and I read all the [H]ardOCP articles on the various cards in this price range, some damned good writing.

Thanks very much for the comments folks -- always open to more, so far no one has said anything that I didn't find helpful in some way (and I learned about that other 10600/10666 number on RAM!). Keep 'em coming if you all are willing.

 

[OrangeWolf]

Well crap -- I just tried to order and it looks like the combo is different or expired or something. I don't see Civ5 included anymore, crap. I figured it meant through the 31st, not at the stroke of midnight as 30th turned into 31st.

Lesson learned.

So since I can't have that is there a different motherboard that would be better? Or should I just buy the current combo and suck it up about the loss of the game? I saw on the motherboard thread that people are complaining about the 1155 Mobos atm anyway. I don't want to get something less good though -- important part.

I shouldn't have screwed around til the last minute -- though granted it wasn't yet midnight (about 11) on the 30th here when I tried.

Checking out new deals now -- who knows, perhaps something better. Sorry to keep bumping this. Really sorry, I feel sort of irritating.

Edit: Was looking at the LE version of the Pro mobo I was already planning to buy. It looks pretty similar on paper -- but it says it has USB 3.0 x2 and USB 2.0 x6, but then on the onboard USB list it says 8 USB 2.0 -- so I think I don't quite understand what's up there. Not sure of the real world disadvantage to the slightly cheaper option either -- though reviews do say it's more difficult to overclock properly for some reason.

Edit2: Actually, maybe I should either just buy the same one minus the game or go post in the Motherboard section, since the rest of the "General Hardware" is taken care of. Really sorry guys, I'm an idiot, but you are all exceptional.