First time builder...please advise on rig

[guinness07]

Hey everyone. I have FINALLY decided to tackle my fears head on and try building my own gaming rig this time around vs. using boutique manufacturers. I feel that I know enough to be dangerous but in no way am an expert (e.g., I still have NO IDEA how to overclock but would love to try it once I get this rig up and running).

Could I please get some advice on my overall rig build? Either that or even humor me with a thumbs up as I shamelessly seek validation to give me some level of confidence that I actually have a clue what I am doing.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Rig will be used for gaming, web browsing, general office use.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included? $1700-$1800 ex. tax/shipping
3) Where do you live? Pittsburgh, PA
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? MB, CPU, RAM, GPU, PS, Case, Media Reader, DVD R/W, Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, HDD, CPU Fan/Heatsink.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Just speakers (Klipsch Promedia 2.1) and potentially case fans (120mm)
6) Will you be overclocking? Yes, but probably not hardcore as it will be first time.
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have? 23" 1920 x 1080
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC? June 2011
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? USB 2.0/3.0, SATA 3/6Gb/s, eSATA
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? Yes, Windows 7 (64bit)

My build so far...

CPU: Core i5 2500K ($224.99)
Fan/Heatsink: Antec Kuhler H2O 620 Liquid Cooler ($79.99) I believe a bit overkill but I am a sucker for the case and any heatsink/fan combo over 150mm (basically anything) would prevent me from using the 220mm LED side fan. This option is more streamlined.
MB: GIGABYTE GA-Z68MX-UD2H ($159.99)
RAM: CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB DDR3 ($94.99)
GPU: XFX Radeon 6970 2GB ($319.99)
Case: IN WIN Dragon Rider ($149.99)
PS: COOLER MASTER Silent Pro 700W ($89.99)
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1 TB 7200RPM ($64.99)
SSD: OCZ Vertex 2 120GB SSD ($189.99)
DVD R/W: ASUS DVD-RW (Black) ($20.99)
Media Reader: Koutech USB 2.0 Card Reader ($19.99)
Monitor: Dell Ultrasharp U2311H 1920 x 1080 ($287.00)
Keyboard: Microsoft SIDEWINDER X4 ($52.95)
Mouse: RAZER DeathAdder Gaming Mouse ($44.99)

Some specific questions:
1) Is my PS overkill? I plan to stay single GPU and don't want to waste electricity if I don't have to so hoping for an efficient PS that isn't that costly (modular too).
2) I've heard some feedback on the SSD that I should get a Vertex 3. I am up against my budget so is it better to get a 120GB Vertex 2 or get a smaller Vertex 3 and use for caching only?

TOTAL: $1795.82 (incl rebates, excl taxes & shipping)

Any thoughts?

 

[Dangman]

Well one thing: Don't factor in rebates around here as they're not guaranteed discounts.

As for the fparts themselves:

- There's a combo deal link for the exact mobo and CPU you chose that shaves off $25:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.654387

- You're not gonna notice an iota of difference between that Corsair RAM and this G.Skill set in real world apps and games:
$75 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

- If you want to save cash, then drop the HSF down to the following:
$30 - Xigmatek Gaia SD1283 120mm HSF

- Don't bother with the OCZ Vertex 2 SSDs at all. Not only is the Sandforce SF-1200 controller used by those SSDs significantly slower than stated specifications, they're pretty slow in real world usage compared to other SSDs out there. And then there's the fact that OCZ recently made those SSDs even slower. So unless you're getting that specific Vertex 2 for like $70, it's not worth getting at this point in time. As for the OCZ Vertex 3, due to OCZ's track record when it comes to SSDs as well as their level of customer support, I don't recommend going OCZ at all for the SSD. I recommend getting Crucial's C300, C400, or m4 series SSDs, Intel's 320 and 510 series SSDs, and Corsair's Performance 3 SSDs. Minimum size you should be looking at is 64GB.

- PSU wise, at $120, that Coolermaster PSU isn't that good of a buy considering that the larger amperage and higher quality 650HX costs about the same:
$126 - Corsair 650HX 650W Modular PSU

So while the Coolermaster does have an extra 50W, the Corsair has better distribution of its rated wattage among the rails. That Coolermaster only has 50A on the +12V rail. The Corsair listed above has 52A on the +12V rail. So higher quality + more power at virtually the same price. And no, neither PSU is overkill.

- Case wise, that Inwin case isn't worth $150 IMO from the hands on time I've had with it. There are significantly better bang for the buck as well as larger and better cooling cases out there:
$70 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K58W ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K56 ATX Case
$90 - Cooler Master CM690 II Advance ATX Case
$100 - Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B ATX Case
$106 - Lian Li PC-7B Plus II ATX Case
$127 - Fractal Design Define R3 Black ATX Case
$110 - NZXT Whisper WHI - 001BK ATX Full Tower Case
$120 - Velocity Micro GX2-W Silver Classic Aluminum Case with Side Window
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK Black Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$165 - Corsair Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case

 

[guinness07]

Thanks for the advice, this really helps!

Some quick follow-ups. If I scale back to a 64GB SSD, am I at that point installing my Windows 7 OS only (versus potentially the OS and some games or other frequently used programs)? Is a smaller 64GB SSD still worth the investment if all I am getting is a faster load on startup? How much of an enhanced performance can I expect from my startup vs. magnetic HDD?

Thanks again!

 

[Jonowxeno]

I recently built my Uncle an Office PC using a 64GB Crucial C300 and after Windows 7 + Office and some other basic installs, he was between 35-40GB. So you should be able to fit a game or two, but if it's in your budget, a 120+GB gives you much more headroom.

Also, the startup difference was noticable for him, I think he went from 2minute from a 5400rpm drive to about 7-10seconds to get to usable desktop, but this depends on how much startup programs you have as well. Access times are much faster as well but it obviously costs a premium.

 

[Dangman]

Thanks for the advice, this really helps!

Some quick follow-ups. If I scale back to a 64GB SSD, am I at that point installing my Windows 7 OS only (versus potentially the OS and some games or other frequently used programs)? Is a smaller 64GB SSD still worth the investment if all I am getting is a faster load on startup? How much of an enhanced performance can I expect from my startup vs. magnetic HDD?

Thanks again!

Well even after all the Windows updates and small program installation (Anti-virus, anti-malware, Google Chrome, etc), a Windows 7 install takes up about 20GB to 22GB. So you can still install multiple smaller sized programs or 1-5 games depending on the size of those games.

You're not getting just a faster startup time with a SSD. You're gonna get extremely quick responses from the PC itself. I.e an app will take half a second to load when it could take up to a minute to load on a modern hard drive. You rarely have to wait for a program to start up with a SSD. So yes, a 64GB SSD is still worth the investment.

 

[guinness07]

Another question I have is whether I can better allocate my funding across components. In particular, from GPU to SSD. It sounds as if the SSD could REALLY make an impact in the day to day performance of my PC. Would it be better to scale back my HD 6970 2GB to a HD 6950 2GB GPU, and re-allocate those funds toward a bigger/better SSD? If I scaled back to this GPU:

HIS HD6950 2GB ($269.99) I can save myself $50, which I could then allocate to my SSD and upgrade from the OCZ to this...

Crucial M4 2.5" 128GB.

I heard that you could "unlock" that version of the HD6950 and basically crank it up to a 6970, although admittedly, I have absolutely no idea how to do that (apparently it involves flashing the bios but no idea how to do that yet). However, even if I kept the 6950 at stock speed, would this shift in spend be worthwhile or would I be taking too big a hit on graphics to justify. Please note that I'm using this rig primarily for gaming so I would love to ensure that I have the best performance possible.

Thanks!

 

[msny]

Well one thing: Don't factor in rebates around here as they're not guaranteed discounts.

As for the fparts themselves:

- There's a combo deal link for the exact mobo and CPU you chose that shaves off $25:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.654387

- You're not gonna notice an iota of difference between that Corsair RAM and this G.Skill set in real world apps and games:
$75 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10600CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM

- If you want to save cash, then drop the HSF down to the following:
$30 - Xigmatek Gaia SD1283 120mm HSF

- Don't bother with the OCZ Vertex 2 SSDs at all. Not only is the Sandforce SF-1200 controller used by those SSDs significantly slower than stated specifications, they're pretty slow in real world usage compared to other SSDs out there. And then there's the fact that OCZ recently made those SSDs even slower. So unless you're getting that specific Vertex 2 for like $70, it's not worth getting at this point in time. As for the OCZ Vertex 3, due to OCZ's track record when it comes to SSDs as well as their level of customer support, I don't recommend going OCZ at all for the SSD. I recommend getting Crucial's C300, C400, or m4 series SSDs, Intel's 320 and 510 series SSDs, and Corsair's Performance 3 SSDs. Minimum size you should be looking at is 64GB.

- PSU wise, at $120, that Coolermaster PSU isn't that good of a buy considering that the larger amperage and higher quality 650HX costs about the same:
$126 - Corsair 650HX 650W Modular PSU

So while the Coolermaster does have an extra 50W, the Corsair has better distribution of its rated wattage among the rails. That Coolermaster only has 50A on the +12V rail. The Corsair listed above has 52A on the +12V rail. So higher quality + more power at virtually the same price. And no, neither PSU is overkill.

- Case wise, that Inwin case isn't worth $150 IMO from the hands on time I've had with it. There are significantly better bang for the buck as well as larger and better cooling cases out there:
$70 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K58W ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K56 ATX Case
$90 - Cooler Master CM690 II Advance ATX Case
$100 - Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B ATX Case
$106 - Lian Li PC-7B Plus II ATX Case
$127 - Fractal Design Define R3 Black ATX Case
$110 - NZXT Whisper WHI - 001BK ATX Full Tower Case
$120 - Velocity Micro GX2-W Silver Classic Aluminum Case with Side Window
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK Black Full Tower ATX Case
$140 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$165 - Corsair Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case

OP, consider the Phantom Case as a great alternative (I have the white one, comes
in red or black also).

They are great for cooling and cable management!

 

[draken24]

Me loves phantom! I have it in red... Whats up msny!

 

[msny]

Me loves phantom! I have it in red... Whats up msny!

Dang, we need a Phantom lovefest thread!

Just got my extra 200mm fan for the top, gonna install this weekend.

 

[Dangman]

It is true that the larger SSDs are faster than their small sized cousins. Dropping down from the HD 6970 to a HD 6950 woundn't be a huge dramatic difference. At most you're losing 12% to 15% performance. However I would not drop down to a HIS card unless the budget is substantially low. Stick with a Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, or XFX due to their longer warranties and better customer support.

It's far easier to replace a GPU than a SSD with your OS on it. So yes, I would downgrade the GPU and up the SSD.

 

[Cobalt35]

However I would not drop down to a HIS card unless the budget is substantially low. Stick with a Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, or XFX due to their longer warranties and better customer support.

This. I have an old HIS Radeon 4890 GPU that I keep as a spare... I have to downclock it by 50MHz or it hard locks windows on the stock cooler. It also has some nasty coil whine on it which has not happened at all on any other brand that I've come across.

 

[guinness07]

I looked at several of the reviews for the Phantom case and the cooling temps didn't look that great compared to the Dragon Rider.

NZXT Phantom

InWin Dragon Rider

Do you also think that the lack of USB 3.0 is much of an issue (I suppose it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to just connect to the USB 3.0 through the back of the unit vs. the front.

Lastly, I think I would need to find a media card reader that is 5.25" vs. the standard 3.5" (although I am rethinking the media card reader entirely. I should be able to just use the USB connection that most of these devices (camera, video camera, etc.) have, correct?

I know that every case has its plusses and minuses. I am just curious what it is about the Phantom that is creating such a love fest if the cooling doesn't seem that great and it seems to be missing some features that may be more prevalent in years to come (front USB 3.0).

 

[Dangman]

Do you also think that the lack of USB 3.0 is much of an issue (I suppose it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to just connect to the USB 3.0 through the back of the unit vs. the front.

Not really unless you absolutely can't connect drives in the rear.

Lastly, I think I would need to find a media card reader that is 5.25" vs. the standard 3.5" (although I am rethinking the media card reader entirely. I should be able to just use the USB connection that most of these devices (camera, video camera, etc.) have, correct?

Yes.

I know that every case has its plusses and minuses. I am just curious what it is about the Phantom that is creating such a love fest if the cooling doesn't seem that great and it seems to be missing some features that may be more prevalent in years to come (front USB 3.0).

Well the design of the case is pretty much a huge deal to some. Not to mention the fact that it has a good deal of interior space and cable management compared to the InWin. Note that the Phantom case came out long before USB 3.0 hardware was actually released. So you really can't fault the Phantom for not having USB 3.0 when the hardware for it wasn't even out for it.

 

[draken24]

Lots of space cable management... Added 1 fan other than the stock fans and my cooling is excelent.. As far as the reader most are 3.5 however most.come with the adapter .... Im on my cell right now so cant really link... But look up my threads about 2 weeks ago I posted my rig... U will see what I mean about the card reader in the pics... Il bump the thread just incase u cant find it...

 

[msny]

I looked at several of the reviews for the Phantom case and the cooling temps didn't look that great compared to the Dragon Rider.

NZXT Phantom

InWin Dragon Rider

Do you also think that the lack of USB 3.0 is much of an issue (I suppose it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to just connect to the USB 3.0 through the back of the unit vs. the front.

Lastly, I think I would need to find a media card reader that is 5.25" vs. the standard 3.5" (although I am rethinking the media card reader entirely. I should be able to just use the USB connection that most of these devices (camera, video camera, etc.) have, correct?

I know that every case has its plusses and minuses. I am just curious what it is about the Phantom that is creating such a love fest if the cooling doesn't seem that great and it seems to be missing some features that may be more prevalent in years to come (front USB 3.0).

Well, i read that review on the Phantom, its wrong on the temps.
Reread it.

My CPU idle temp, no OC, has never gotton higher the 33C since the day
I built it.

They also tested with only the basic fans and a stock Intel HS/fan
I'd expect it to be higher.

Its a failed review right there, for an experienced builder, trying to make an evaluation.

 

[draken24]

Ya problably shoulda mentioned it before... At 4.2 with stock gpu.. my temps are the best ive ever had

 

[E4g1e]

I looked at several of the reviews for the Phantom case and the cooling temps didn't look that great compared to the Dragon Rider.

NZXT Phantom

InWin Dragon Rider

That's deceiving because the two reviews used completely different system configurations. The review of the Phantom, for example, used an i7-920 CPU-based setup with a GeForce GTX 260 GPU while the review of the InWin case used a much-lesser CPU, the Core 2 Duo E8400 and a less-power-hungry GPU (a Radeon HD 4870). And the C2D/4870 combo does not heat up the inside of the case anywhere near as much as the i7/GTX260 combo does.