First time builder, noob questions.

D

DarrisBard

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
224
Hi HardOCP forum.

My immediate Goal is to play Fallout 3, Prince of Persia 2008, and PES 2010 at 1280 x 1024.

My current pc is getting very long in the tooth (Crt, ddr 400, x700 etc.) even though I tend to stay behind the curve. I'm trying to build a decent machine but I have noob questions.

I'm not really looking for a parts critique but I'll list them so we are on the same page and then I'll ask my noob questions.

Motherboard: Intel dg41ty mATX
CPU: E7500 FSB=1066
Ram: 2x2 gb dual channel corsair ddr2-800
GPU: Sapphire 4670 512 mb
HDD: WD 320 GB 7,200 rpm
DVD: Samsung burner
Speakers: Logitech s220
Case: Cooler Master elite 341 mATX
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified
Monitor: 19" LCD Hanns-G
OS: Windows 7 home (oem)

Ok here are my noob questions. This forum looks like a very knowledgeable/helpful place so thanks in advance.

1. Does the Motherboard autodetect the FSB as 1066 (matching the cpu)? Or do I have to muck around in BIOS? I don't intend to overclock but I read that there aren't really options for overclocking on this motherboard. I was worried that if it sets it to 800 I wouldn't be able to change it.
2. What's up with ram speed? I've read things about matching FSB speed and ram speed...but for example some motherboards only support ram that is faster than the FSB speeds. Is it pointless for me to get ddr2-800 and I should stick to ddr2-667?
3. Also on ram, what's that about 32-bit OS' not detecting all 4gb? Still a problem with windows 7?
4. The 4670 GPU isn't limited by the PCI-e 16x 1.0 bandwidth is it? Is 2.0 that important?
5. Any thoughts on Intel HD audio? I do listen to cd's on the computer often. I wonder if a pci sound card will help in that department or if just having those speakers is enough?
6. That CM elite 341 case has 4 fan spots (for 120 cm fans I think). 1 in front, 2 side, and 1 rear. Front and sides intake, and rear exhaust, right? Or do I not need side fans at all? Are they pointing the right way?

I really appreciate any help. I feel pretty confident about putting it all together because I took apart an older machine and reassembled it correctly. Obviously you make mistakes when you do stuff the first time. This comes to about 800 bucks (I'm in the US) and seems like it should do what I want. Got to wait for windows 7 to come out but I figured I'd ask now.

DB
 
1. Yes
2. The motherboard you chose only does up to 800, so get 800.
3. It always will be a problem, always use 64-bit.
4. It will never be important, ignore it.
5. Integrated audio is fine these days.
6. It comes with 1 fan, it will be fine. Maybe a front one would be good to add.

$800 for all that is absurd. Should be ~$400, because that's a mid-range end system. Personally if I was doing a build like this I would buy all the used parts I can to make it even cheaper. I don't like buying new stocked items that have been sitting on the shelf going obsolete for 2 years. It makes more sense to me to find what I can used. Usually better parts are found for the price as well. This is where forums and fleamarkets come in. ebay is mostly a scam site now for anything electronic.
 
 
  1. See Auzner's answer.
  2. Everything is based off of the base FSB speed.

    Formulas for Intel LGA775 platform @ 1:1 settings:
    c × [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed (c = CPU Multiplier)
    2 × [Base FSB speed] = Effective RAM speed
    4 × [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed

    On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is, for the most part, useless. However, P35 and newer only support RAM speeds as low as DDR2-667, so if your base FSB speed is lower than 333, the BIOS should bump the RAM speed to a supported level.

    For example, these will be your stock speeds on a G41 with an E7500 and DDR2-800:
    E7500: 11 × 266 = 2.9Ghz, DDR2-667, 1066FSB
  3. See Auzner's answer.
  4. PCIe 1.1 16x is the same speed as PCIe 2.0 8x (4GB/s); Even the HD5870 can't saturate that bandwidth. ;)
  5. Logitech makes terrible speakers if you're an audiophile. No, a soundcard won't help those speakers. :p If you're a semi-Audiophile, at least go for the M-Audio AV30 2.0 speaker set from amazon. If you don't care that much about audio quality, then stick with logitech. As Auzner said, onboard audio is much better than it used to be.
  6. Yes, have at LEAST 2 fans. If you notice your system temps are high, add the side fans. You want at least a balanced airflow.

I highly suggest going with shiro's build list instead... much better bang for buck and upgrade path.
 
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lt_shiro said:
We don't suggest getting any socket 775 at its end of life state.
suggested changes
Click to expand...
What he said is better. The parts you originally chose were just fine, but not the pricing. Here it would be better to buy the low end stuff of a newer platform than the mid-high of a past generation (and new). During the summer I remember seeing HD4850's for $80 with rebates. Everyone is always leaping for new cards, so the for sale section will always have any type of video card.
 
Auzner said:
1. Yes
2. The motherboard you chose only does up to 800, so get 800.
3. It always will be a problem, always use 64-bit.
4. [PCI-e 2.0] It will never be important, ignore it.
$800 for all that is absurd.
Click to expand...

Thanks Auzner, good info. And I agree that $800 does seem too much.

I have had bad experiences with online trading where I have held up my end but have not received what I was supposed to. Not that I think this place is like that but...

enginurd said:
  1. Logitech makes terrible speakers if you're an audiophile. No, a soundcard won't help those speakers. :p If you're a semi-Audiophile, at least go for the M-Audio AV30 2.0 speaker set from amazon.
Click to expand...

  1. Great info. I'm trying to avoid crappy speakers and I know $25 speakers aren't going to cut it. I haven't researched that part as much.

    I highly suggest going with shiro's build list instead... much better bang for buck and upgrade path.
    Click to expand...
    I appreciate Shiro's suggestion and I realize it is probably accurate. I prefer to stick with Intel.

    Would this be a more matched processor? I'm not too expert on processors.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116091

    I am strongly considering a faster card like that 4850 but I'd probably also have to get a stronger power supply.
    Edit: Plus I'm running a relatively low resolution...extra power wasted?

    Oh one more noob question. Should I immediately update the bios to the latest version? That seems easy to do on that intel board.

    Thanks for the help guys. I definitely came to the right place.

    DB
 
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The speakers and LCD you want to buy new are "throw-away" parts. It's garage sale junk people eventually get rid of. Things like that are found used everywhere. If you want new items you should spend more and get nicer things. New monitors are pretty expensive items, so I see why you'd go for a ~$120 LCD. There are many threads on cheap LCDs vs CRTs. If your existing CRT is trinitron I recommend you keep using it for awhile. If you want a different monitor, check out your local craigslist and see if anyone is getting rid of trinitron monitors that work for $0-20. Even if they want $100 for it, offer $20.

If you're not going to spend more than $50 on speakers, whatever you're getting is a simple stereo powered desk speaker design that has existed for 20 years. You might as well get a used pair some place since it will be the exact same thing. Look for big heavy beige ones, they'll sound just the same as a new sleek logitech pair.

A 400W PSU is fine for a single card, single drive, single dc processor system.

Before the system is whole you could update the bios while it's convenient.
 
DarrisBard said:
I appreciate Shiro's suggestion and I realize it is probably accurate. I prefer to stick with Intel.

Would this be a more matched processor? I'm not too expert on processors.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116091

I am strongly considering a faster card like that 4850 but I'd probably also have to get a stronger power supply.
Edit: Plus I'm running a relatively low resolution...extra power wasted?
Click to expand...
The $66 AMD X2 245 that lt_shiro still outperforms the $83 Intel PDC E6300 that you linked to. To match the AMD X2 245, you have to get the $120 E7500. See why we recommend AMD now? Is your preference for Intel that intense that you're willing to spend twice the amount of money you need to on a comparable CPU? The extra cash saved by going with an AMD build can be better put towards a faster video card like HD4850.

So again, the question is: Do you really like Intel that much?

The Corsair 400CX is more than enough for a HD4850 video card. Also resolution have little to do with your power supply.
 
I am strongly considering a faster card like that 4850 but I'd probably also have to get a stronger power supply.
Edit: Plus I'm running a relatively low resolution...extra power wasted?
Click to expand...

This is quoted off the ATI site.

ATI Radeon™ HD 4850 System Requirements
* PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard
* 450 Watt or greater power supply with 75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express® power connector recommended (550 Watt and two 6-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode)
* Certified power supplies are recommended. Refer to http://ati.amd.com/certifiedPSU for a list of Certified products
* Minimum 1GB of system memory
* Installation software requires CD-ROM drive
* DVD playback requires DVD drive
* Blu-ray™ playback requires Blu-ray drive
* For a complete ATI CrossFireX™ system, a second ATI Radeon™ HD 4850 graphics card, an ATI CrossFireX Ready motherboard and one ATI CrossFireX Bridge Interconnect cable per graphics card (included) are required
Click to expand...

Edit: Not to contradict what Danny Bui said. Corsair makes excellent PSUs so you would likely be fine with your current one.
 
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For gaming builds, Intel Core2 chips are outperformed by their price equivalent AMD counterparts. If you reeeeeeallly wanna stick with Intel and have an $800 budget, go for the Core i5 750. But as shiro mentioned, such a system would be complete overkill for your needs. Do you live near a Microcenter?

If you absolutely insist on a Core2 build, go with the E6300 and OC it to at least 3.1Ghz. Though, in order to OC, you'll need a better board, like the GA-EP43-UD3L, along with an aftermarket CPU cooler, like the CM TX3.

skittzle said:
This is quoted off the ATI site.

* 450 Watt or greater power supply with 75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express® power connector recommended
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The 6-pin PCI Express power connector draws all its power from the +12V rail. Since the CX 400W only has a single +12V rail, its PCIe connector is on that rail, which has 30A available (12Vx30A=360W). Of course, other components will use much of that also, but the vidcard would only need 75/12=7A. I think it has enough juice.
 
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From what I've read around the internet the general consensus seems to be that the corsair 400w can handle a card that requires one pci-e 6 pin connector. I was thinking it would be safer to go with a 450w power supply,as recommended, and not have to worry.

I feel like I've been miscommunicating with Danny Bui. To clarify, higher resolutions require a stronger video card...and a stronger video card would need a more expensive psu as others posted. Since I'm using low resolutions I don't need the more expensive equipment. Hopefully lol.

I do have to stick with Intel.

Do you live near a Microcenter?
Click to expand...

I do actually. I know they sometimes have cheapo stuff.

Windows XP has been good for me. Hopefully Windows 7 will be good for games as well.
 
Then I recommend this PSU if you want that headroom:
$68 - Seasonic SS-500ET 500W PSU

At your resolution, the HD4770 and HD4850 is more than enough. And both can run off the Corsair 400W PSU

Why do you have to stick with Intel?

A majority of the latest games out there run a bit faster on Windows 7 than Windows XP.

A cost effective Intel build would be this:
$159 - Intel Core i5 750 from Microcenter
$110 - Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 Intel P55 ATX Motherboard
$86 - G.Skill Ripjaw Series F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 2 x 2GB DDR3 1600 RAM
----
Total: $355 plus tax and shipping
 
Cool, so do you wanna go overkill with Core i5 or sell yourself short with Core2? :p

/edit: i do not type too slow... danny types too fast.

BTW, you can sometimes get Microcenter to pricematch newegg. ;)
 
At this point I have the answers to my questions and I have some good suggestions for alternative builds and cheap parts. When windows 7 is released I'll make my final decisions. Thanks again for all the help.

Hmm, I forgot to ask what you guys think of DirectX 11? If it is a "big deal" that might impact video card choices down the road.
 
Look at how things turned out with Vista and DirectX 10. I personally don't believe that DX11 will be a big deal... not this (upcoming) year, anyways.

One more for the pot: Before you decide upon anything, post your build list here. Prices may change and new items may arrive within the next 2-4 weeks. (Keep in mind that Windows 7 will be released on October 22.)
 
DirectX 11 doesn't matter, performance of AMD new 5 series in current cards should be only fact in buying.
 
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