first REAL shader 2.0 vs 3.0 comparison

guys i guess your confused on what pics im talking about, i guess creedAMD is the only one who actually saw the pics. atleast he has a valid arguement.

..........
IM TALKING ABOUT THESE PICS.... (the same pics on the first post of this thread) and the bad quality pics are the ones i were refereing to when i told you to go look at this thread. (those other pics are clearly not as bad quality as these.)

2.0
5.jpg

A fairly bad quality example (as far as my camera capabilities are concerned). This is a screeny from FarCry, using Shader 2
Click to expand...

******

3.0
6.jpg

This is the same section using the Shader 3 patch. Notice how the textures on the wall and the floor seem so much deeper and more detailed.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Bad_Boy
wtf pictures are you looking at???? im talking about the 1st two pictures on the first post of this thread. ill post them again if it makes you happy. i know now that those other pics from pcper are no ps and ps3.0, but the ones from bit-tech are clearly ps2.0, and ps3.0
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what makes them so clearly? How do you know that it only the difference between 2.0 and 3.0 and nothing else? You dont.
 
Originally posted by creedAMD
what makes them so clearly? How do you know that it only the difference between 2.0 and 3.0 and nothing else? You dont.
Click to expand...

if you look closely to the pic
you can see small fragments of

FarCryps2.0 on one pic
and farcry (probally ps3.0) on the other

now im sure if nvidia presented this infront of ALOT of people they would keep the shader version a varible. unless they are complete dumbasses.
 
Originally posted by Bad_Boy
if you look closely to the pic
you can see small fragments of

FarCryps2.0 on one pic
and farcry (probally ps3.0) on the other

now im sure if nvidia presented this infront of ALOT of people they would keep the shader version a varible. unless they are complete dumbasses.
Click to expand...

It just isn't enough to go off of yet. Nvidia has been known to pull some shady shit. I will wait until Beyond 3D or H gets into the differences. I am not going to let Nvidia be the ones that show me. They have an agenda. (To get my $500) LoL
 
Those pics are identical to those from PCperspective and as no one has a farcry ps3.0 patch where do you think PC perspective got there pictures from jesus, this is what was it on at beyond 3d

Edit: LOOK AT THE PICS from bittech and Pc perspective side by side they are frickin identical.
 
Originally posted by creedAMD
It just isn't enough to go off of yet. Nvidia has been known to pull some shady shit. I will wait until Beyond 3D or H gets into the differences. I am not going to let Nvidia be the ones that show me. They have an agenda. (To get my $500) LoL
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omfg
your trying to make somthing out of nothing

bit-tech took the pics, not nvidia. and it was a presentation.
all im doing is im comparing from the information that we have so far and you guys act like its a fucking sin.

i dont see what the problem is, as ive stated ill compare more when better pics (and probally demos + benchmarks) arrive.
 
Hey you pointed me here as proof while getting at me for calling someone while not batting an eyelid at someone promoting warez, these pics have been discussed elsewhere, they are the same pictures and they are PS none and PS3.0.
 
first of all i didnt name call, and if i did im sorry. i may have cursed but i dont recall name calling.

second of all, i want you to go to this page.
http://www.bit-tech.net/feature/43/

they are PS2.0, and PS3.0
you can even look at the bottom of one of the pics, and you can make out PS2.0 pretty damn well.
 
All you have to do is look at the (actual screenshots) at the PCPerspective link and they look shockingly similar to the photos of screenshots you're showing from the "6800 launch party". What's more, this is what Pelly says about the shots:
Here is an exclusive first look at FarCry running on a GeForce 6800 Ultra using Pixel Shader 3.0. Click on the thumbnails for a larger image.
Click to expand...
One look at the water and the idea that Pixel Shader 3.0 doesn't make a difference seems to go out the window.
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In similar fashion, the stone stairs are far more realistic when using PS 3.0 with significantly more detail
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Anyone who has actually played the game knows the "PS2.0" shots there are NOT PS2.0 or even PS1.1.

And if you'd actually bothered to look, you'd see the stair shots look VERY MUCH LIKE the ones from bit-tech, only actual screenshots and not blurry-ass pictures of screenshots.

So yes, we already do have better pictures than the photos, and they show precisely what's happening.

And it's not comparing PS2.0 to PS3.0. It may be comparing far cry running on a 5200 (PS2.0 "compatible") with Pixel shading turned off or possibly in the stair shots, forced to PS1.1 to it running on a 6800
at PS3.0. What we do NOT have are obvious PS2.0 shots compared to PS3.0 shots.
 
Originally posted by leukotriene
All you have to do is look at the (actual screenshots) at the PCPerspective link and they look shockingly similar to the photos of screenshots you're showing from the "6800 launch party".
What's more, this is what Pelly says about the shots:



Anyone who has actually played the game knows the "PS2.0" shots there are NOT PS2.0 or even PS1.1.

And if you'd actually bothered to look, you'd see the stair shots look VERY MUCH LIKE the ones from bit-tech, only actual screenshots and not blurry-ass pictures of screenshots.

So yes, we already do have better pictures than the photos, and they show precisely what's happening.
Click to expand...

if you LOOKED at the first page of this thread, you would see we already proved those pictures fake and counted them out. the ones from bit-tech SHOW on the picture that is says ps2.0 and ps3.0 ...I DONT SEE WHY YOU CANT SEE THAT!!!??!?!
 
Originally posted by fallguy
0-2 in this battle.
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It's getting funnier and funnier.

Will the real 2.0vs3.0 slim shader please stand up? Please stand up?
 
Originally posted by creedAMD
It's getting funnier and funnier.

Will the real 2.0vs3.0 slim shader please stand up? Please stand up?
Click to expand...

that was the first funny thing you said all day rofl
 
if you LOOKED at the first page of this thread, you would see we already proved those pictures fake and counted them out. the ones from bit-tech SHOW on the picture that is says ps2.0 and ps3.0 ...I DONT SEE WHY YOU CANT SEE THAT!!!??!?!
Click to expand...

Maybe because the blurry-ass screenshots you're touting are from the freaking nvidia launch party and look very, very, very, very similar to the PCPer shots, and make the same contention about their shader models.

The most likely explanation is that nvidia is trying to sell their PS3.0 supporting part by comparing it to a much inferior part that is "PS2.0" compatible.
 
Originally posted by Bad_Boy
first of all i didnt name call, and if i did im sorry. i may have cursed but i dont recall name calling.

second of all, i want you to go to this page.
http://www.bit-tech.net/feature/43/

they are PS2.0, and PS3.0
you can even look at the bottom of one of the pics, and you can make out PS2.0 pretty damn well.
Click to expand...

Lol I am not blaming you bad boy Im saying those pics have been pointed out all over as been PS and PS3.0 yes from the launch event and bit tech, I know it says PS2.0 and that is what the uproar is about, just looak at them side by side with the blown up PC perspective ones, they are both from that event and you will see they are identical except the pic from bittech missed some of the picture off.
 
Why doesn't someone just go into Farcry with their 9700 Pro or whatever, and take some screenies, and post them here....
 
Originally posted by Bad_Boy
if you LOOKED at the first page of this thread, you would see we already proved those pictures fake and counted them out. the ones from bit-tech SHOW on the picture that is says ps2.0 and ps3.0 ...I DONT SEE WHY YOU CANT SEE THAT!!!??!?!
Click to expand...

Yes I read that now go back to that italien site and have a look at the pic links fro the pictures you know the filenames and you will find that they ripped them from PC perspective not the other way round lol
 
well call me one confused mofo then, i guess we will just wait until the friggin far cry 3.0 patch comes out, cause the way i see it, you wouldnt beleive anybody if they just posted some pics, having the watermark of 2.0 on them or not lol.

all too funny.

.....we wait again
 
Wait lol Ive just noticed them italien sons of *****'s they have them pictures hooked up through java to link straight to the PCperspective page, it comes up in the bottom of the internet explorer page when you hover the mouse over them.
 
Originally posted by creedAMD
How do you know that displacement mapping is adding the little bit that you see? You do know that the 420 is going to add that too right?
Click to expand...

Someone on the official farcry forums who was at the event noted it as one of the major differences he saw, the other difference was the new soft shadows. Displacement mapping is a VS3.0 thing, which the R420 is going to have. This won't be an accurate depiction of the difference between PS2 and 3 unless you shut off the displacement mapping which is going to make the scene look much better
 
Originally posted by SnakEyez187
Someone on the official farcry forums who was at the event noted it as one of the major differences he saw, the other difference was the new soft shadows. Displacement mapping is a VS3.0 thing, which the R420 is going to have
Click to expand...

where you hear about the r420 having shader3.0
 
cause the way i see it, you wouldnt beleive anybody if they just posted some pics, having the watermark of 2.0 on them or not lol.
Click to expand...

This isn't "anybody".
This is nvidia trying to hype their new card.
At the 6800 launch party.
With no verification outside of the nvidia PR persons statement that the first shot is running PS2.0.
And despite the fact that the shots that Pelly is showing are remarkably similar from almost the exact same spot in the game, only much clearer, and are clearly not comparing PS2.0 to PS3.0 (but say they are), you choose to believe the nvidia PR people anyway.

Once again, if you'd bother to go play FarCry with a freaking card that does PS2.0 in the game (R3XX variants, NV3X is forced to PS1.1), especially inside the caves, and you will understand precisely why people who have are saying the first shots are clearly not.

The lighting with active PS2.0 in FC looks a lot like the "PS3.0" shot and much, much less like the "PS2.0" shot. Add the sceond set of pictures at PCPer which Pelly says are "PS2.0" (but are obviously not even PS1.1) and the picture becomes clear.

It's certainly possible there are VS3.0 optimizations in those shots which the R3XX can't do, but the R420 will supposedly support VS3.0. So until we have a third-party comparing the competing hardware on their own systems rather than regurgitating canned shots from a presentation, it's just so much PR fluff.
 
Originally posted by leukotriene
This isn't "anybody".
This is nvidia trying to hype their new card.
At the 6800 launch party.
With no verification outside of the nvidia PR persons statement that the first shot is running PS2.0.
And despite the fact that the shots that Pelly is showing are remarkably similar from almost the exact same spot in the game, only much clearer, and are clearly not comparing PS2.0 to PS3.0 (but say they are), you choose to believe the nvidia PR people anyway.

Once again, if you'd bother to go play FarCry with a freaking card that does PS2.0 in the game (R3XX variants, NV3X is forced to PS1.1), especially inside the caves, and you will understand precisely why people who have are saying the first shots are clearly not.

The lighting with active PS2.0 in FC looks a lot like the "PS3.0" shot and much, much less like the "PS2.0" shot. Add the sceond set of pictures at PCPer which Pelly says are "PS2.0" (but are obviously not even PS1.1) and the picture becomes clear.

It's certainly possible there are VS3.0 optimizations in those shots which the R3XX can't do, but the R420 will supposedly support VS3.0. So until we have a third-party comparing the competing hardware on their own systems rather than regurgitating canned shots from a presentation, it's just so much PR fluff.
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whatever buddy, you can keep on rambling on and on and on...
but now i realize im just not gonna beleive a thing until the far cry 3.0 patch is out.

so keep going on and on and on :p :p lol
its amusing
 
That first pic is certainly not PS2.0 . Looks nothing like what I'm seeing at home on the 9800pro. Matter of fact, it doesn't look like what I see with the 5900, either. What did they run it on, a GF2?
 
so keep going on and on and on lol
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You're now on ignore. Anyone who will believe launch party PR hype over their own eyes deserves to be :)
That first pic is certainly not PS2.0 . Looks nothing like what I'm seeing at home on the 9800pro. Matter of fact, it doesn't look like what I see with the 5900, either. What did they run it on, a GF2?
Click to expand...
I'd guess they ran it on an NV3X derivative with the settings forced all the way down and the pixel shading almost totally if not totally turned off. That way, they could claim with a straight face (for all the tools who will believe PR BS) that the first shot was taken on a "Shader 2.0 using card". The fact that it wasn't using shader 2.0 at the time with the same detail settings doesn't get mentioned ;)
 
Originally posted by Bad_Boy
where you hear about the r420 having shader3.0
Click to expand...

The thing is it's not *really* a feature of vertex shader 3.0,just part of the vertex pipelinem, it's more of a DirectX feature, one form of it was already supported by the Parhelia, but was never officially enabled in the drivers. kronos does a little explaining at FM, but I have a feeling Npatches isn't a prerequisite to being able to perform DM

http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum...umber=3697395&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=6&vc=1
 
Originally posted by LabRat
That first pic is certainly not PS2.0 . Looks nothing like what I'm seeing at home on the 9800pro. Matter of fact, it doesn't look like what I see with the 5900, either. What did they run it on, a GF2?
Click to expand...

No one knows labrat thats the thing, the only thing we know is that they are identical to those of the NVIDIA event and they state its PS2.0.

Hey can you go to that point in your farcry and snap us a screen shot at maximum quality and we can compare it too the PS3.0 shot.
 
Originally posted by SnakEyez187
The thing is it's not *really* a feature of vertex shader 3.0,just part of the vertex pipelinem, it's more of a DirectX feature, one form of it was already supported by the Parhelia, but was never officially enabled in the drivers. kronos does a little explaining at FM, but I have a feeling Npatches isn't a prerequisite to being able to perform DM

http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum...umber=3697395&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=6&vc=1
Click to expand...

well wont you need a s3.0 card to see 3.0 IQ/performance? and if the shader3.0 is a feature in the next DX that doesnt mean the r420 will have it.

or am i confused again
 
we still don't know EVERYTHING yet...

that would be funny if R420 supported SM3.0 fully :)

anyways i hope they at least have VS3.0 support.... the displacement mapping looks awesome.
 
Ahem ATI are said to support VS3.0 fully and partial PS3.0 that is why microsoft rewrote direct x 9.0c to allow full VS3.0 support and partial PS3.0, the thing is Ive just found out those lovely effects on the farcry scene in SM3.0 are actully called displacement mapping which is part of VS3.0 and ATI will fully support it.
 
Originally posted by crazyspike
Ahem ATI are said to support VS3.0 fully and partial PS3.0 that is why microsoft rewrote direct x 9.0c to allow full VS3.0 support and partial PS3.0, the thing is Ive just found out those lovely effects on the farcry scene in SM3.0 are actully called displacement mapping which is part of VS3.0 and ATI will fully support it.
Click to expand...

competition is such a lovely thing!
 
I think shakespeare was commenting on this thread when he wrote the following:

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Seriously guys, who gives a crap if that's PS2/3/17.56, it won't really become a buying descision unless the NV40 and R420 are neck and neck in performance.
 
Well it looks like those shots are NOT between PS2.0 and PS3.0 as Nvidia have come clean, they are actually a lower quality pixel precision:

Update: We are looking into some questions posed to us about these screenshots in this thread of our forums; most notably: what setting are the "before" images using on FarCry.

Update2: While we still try to get ahold of this mod, below is the official statement from NVIDIA on these screenshots. The first screenshots are NOT using PS2.0, but PS1.x instead.


Can be found here: http://www.pcper.com/comments.php?nid=145
 
i found something odd

if you watch the 150 mb video of the full presentation, when they are showing the before and after shot. you dont see any watermark of the "FarCry PS2.0" like you see on bit-tek.

weird.
 
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