First Radeon 6xxx card launches in Oct., performance rivals 5850

YeuEmMaiMai said:
compared to Nvidia's offerings with similar performance they are cheaper. It's kind of annoying to see people saying ATi does this when in reality you can all thank Nvidia for not having any competition for 7+ months thus artificially keeping prices high......
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Yet when it was ATi floundering people still blamed Nvidia for high prices. So in essence it doesn't matter who's winning, high prices will always be Nvidia's fault. You guys are funny.... :)
 
Well- once AMD/ATI started really competing again, prices came down a ton, and even back when the 5xxx series released and AMD/ATi was without competition, the prices stayed much more reasonable than what Nvidia's top-end prices were. Now that there is competition again, prices have been dropping very nicely. Once AMD/ATi release the 6xxx series, I would imagine they will keep a similar pricing scheme because they know, especially with today's economy, that if they push prices too high, they won't sell well, and Nvidia will be able to steal marketshare and profits when they eventually release their competing parts.
 
Crispy002 said:
I'm disappointed that someone thought it'd be a good idea to make a 6870 inferior to a 5870 performance wise.
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They did that with the sole intent of deceiving the consumer. With the numbering scheme they had it worked that the higher the number the better the performance. If it is true that the 6870 is slower than the 5870 that is going to dissappoint a lot of people when they get home and find out they got fucked by a marketing scheme.
 
trinibwoy said:
Yet when it was ATi floundering people still blamed Nvidia for high prices. So in essence it doesn't matter who's winning, high prices will always be Nvidia's fault. You guys are funny.... :)
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lol when there is no compeition, the AIB partners did not have to compete with each other and thus with no competition from Nvidia, prices remained high.....this is basic economics 101 here....now that Nvidia has released competitive products, prices are starting to move downwards as expected.....


nice try though......

maybe one day when you are all growed up, you will understand this most basic concept of business........
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
lol when there is no compeition, the AIB partners did not have to compete with each other and thus with no competition from Nvidia, prices remained high.....this is basic economics 101 here....now that Nvidia has released competitive products, prices are starting to move downwards as expected.....


nice try though......

maybe one day when you are all growed up, you will understand this most basic concept of business........
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Fail post is fail. Reading comprehension ftw.
 
Think I'll pass on the new 6xxx series unless they offer ridiculous improvements over current gen, i am perfectly happy with my current gtx 460 sli setup.
 
I'd expect this part (Barts/Juniper equivalent) to most likely come in at $199. $249 tops. The GTX 460 is the hot midrange card on the market now and it handily beats out the 5830.
If AMD wants to take back the midrange market they must squarely face off against the 460. A $299 price point is not gonna make that happen so it won't.
 
BoogerBomb said:
They did that with the sole intent of deceiving the consumer. With the numbering scheme they had it worked that the higher the number the better the performance. If it is true that the 6870 is slower than the 5870 that is going to dissappoint a lot of people when they get home and find out they got fucked by a marketing scheme.
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Im trying to think of a company that does this with every card refresh... HMMMMM
 
kd5ywa said:
Fail post is fail. Reading comprehension ftw.
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how did the post fail again? you just let me know how failure of a competitor to release a product in a timely mannor is the fault of ATi?

I repeat again it is not the fault of ATi that prices were high......it was the LACK OF COMPETITION FROM NVIDIA that kept prices high

common sense, does u haz it?
 
BoogerBomb said:
They did that with the sole intent of deceiving the consumer. With the numbering scheme they had it worked that the higher the number the better the performance. If it is true that the 6870 is slower than the 5870 that is going to dissappoint a lot of people when they get home and find out they got fucked by a marketing scheme.
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hummm lemme see here ATi has on MULTIPLE OCCASIONS stated that their product line breaks out something like this:

first digit = generation and in this case 6 means 6th generation

next 3 digits represent the performance of card in relationship to other members within that generation so if they did choose to call the new release a 6800 and it is the slowest one, who cares as we all know that 6810>6800..... Besides this is all speculation until the product is released anywhere..

OMG the 4870 is faster than a 5470 OMG no wai!!!!!

silly.......
 
trinibwoy said:
Like he said, you have a reading comprehension problem. And I can assure you I am far more qualified than you are to discuss economics.
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ahahha ok whatever you go a head and try to "school" me in teh economics...lol you cannot even understand basic competition and the results on pricing of [insert product here]......and reading comprehension you need because I was referring to this specific instance were Nvidia was 7+ months late with the competition..........
 
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sirmonkey1985 said:
yeah it smells and it sucks ass.. (lived in the bay area for 25 years)..
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Want to hear a funny codename? Cedar Mill, Fermi, Propus, Heka, Agena, Loki (R420), Fudo (R520), Zacate, Williamette, Tualatin, .... etc, etc.




as far as the naming goes.. dont forget about the stupid LE naming nvidia used for a while that made absolutely no sense.. why call it a 6200 LE.. if its slower then the regular 6200 call it a 6100 duh.. i hated the old naming.. took me 10 times longer to find out if the XT was better or worse then the XTX.. or if it was better or worse then the pro.. pain in the ass..
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Yeah, AMD used XT for their high end models, GT for their lowest high end model based on a high end harvested GPU, and nVidia used the XT model as a SE moniker and the GT as equivalent of AMD's XT. XTX was AMD's response to nVidia's Ultra, hopefully such names are gone for good.

PS: nVidia's definition of their low end cards:
LE means Lousy Edition
SE means Sloppy Edition
GT means Generally Tamed

:p
 
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AMD is throwing a lot at nVidia's face atm...They need to give them a chance xD
 
Hey can you guys take the flame wars somewhere else please?

Anyway, the SWE post I didn't screenshot before they took it down, but luckily VRZone summarized it in time: http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-radeon-hd-6850-on-october-18th-is-barts-pro-/9861.html

In case vr-zone ALSO takes it down, I've copied the vr-zone article here (btw vr-zone is right, SWE only said media embargo lifts on Oct. 18 so it's not necessarily the launch day for the HD5750 replacement; my bad!):

Swedish website Sweclockers claim to have to scoop on Radeon HD 6850's release date and specifications. A series of previous rumours staded that Barts may be branded as Radeon HD 6800 instead of HD 6700 - a rumour that was received with much skepticism. Sweclockers are now reigniting the same rumour by reporting Barts Pro may end up branded as Radeon HD 6850. The media embargo reportedly ends on 18th October, though a wide availability date is not given.

The specifications, at first sight, appear similar to a Radeon HD 5830, with 1120 SP and 4 GHz 256-bit GDDR5. The clock speed is listed as 72x MHz. On paper, one might wonder why on earth AMD would brand a product seemingly inferior to a HD 5830 as HD 6850? Assuming these rumours have any truth, a radical VLIW-4 / 4D redesign in AMD's shader structure could see even a 1120 SP product outperform the 1600 SP Cypress. Of course, these 1120 SP will occupy a larger area and consume more power.

Meanwhile, a large part of the rumour mill continues to believe Barts will be branded as HD 6700, Cayman as HD 6800 and Antilles as HD 6900, and these just make most sense. The "Barts Pro is 1120SP" specification also disagree with the leaked slide stating Barts Pro as 800 SP. Clearly, there's a lot of uncertainty and misinformation here, with contradictory rumours and something's got to give.

Whichever branding Barts does eventually receive, and whatever its final specifications and performance may be, there's one thing all speculation agrees with - it will release sometime between October 18th and October 25th, with an AMD event scheduled for October 12th. Considering these dates are not much more than a month away, we will surely find out the final and confirmed branding in the coming days/weeks.

EDIT: Beyond3D picked apart the 1120 SPs as being illogical but the 18th of Oct stands as a reasonable media embargo lifting day.
 
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blastingcap said:
Clearly, there's a lot of uncertainty and misinformation here, with contradictory rumours and something's got to give.
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That's why the lead up to a next generation videocard is so much fun. Wading through all the bullshit to find that one little nugget of correct information.
 
blastingcap said:
Hey can you guys take the flame wars somewhere else please?

Anyway, the SWE post I didn't screenshot before they took it down, but luckily VRZone summarized it in time: http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-radeon-hd-6850-on-october-18th-is-barts-pro-/9861.html

In case vr-zone ALSO takes it down, I've copied the vr-zone article here (btw vr-zone is right, SWE only said media embargo lifts on Oct. 18 so it's not necessarily the launch day for the HD5750 replacement; my bad!):

Swedish website Sweclockers claim to have to scoop on Radeon HD 6850's release date and specifications. A series of previous rumours staded that Barts may be branded as Radeon HD 6800 instead of HD 6700 - a rumour that was received with much skepticism. Sweclockers are now reigniting the same rumour by reporting Barts Pro may end up branded as Radeon HD 6850. The media embargo reportedly ends on 18th October, though a wide availability date is not given.

The specifications, at first sight, appear similar to a Radeon HD 5830, with 1120 SP and 4 GHz 256-bit GDDR5. The clock speed is listed as 72x MHz. On paper, one might wonder why on earth AMD would brand a product seemingly inferior to a HD 5830 as HD 6850? Assuming these rumours have any truth, a radical VLIW-4 / 4D redesign in AMD's shader structure could see even a 1120 SP product outperform the 1600 SP Cypress. Of course, these 1120 SP will occupy a larger area and consume more power.

Meanwhile, a large part of the rumour mill continues to believe Barts will be branded as HD 6700, Cayman as HD 6800 and Antilles as HD 6900, and these just make most sense. The "Barts Pro is 1120SP" specification also disagree with the leaked slide stating Barts Pro as 800 SP. Clearly, there's a lot of uncertainty and misinformation here, with contradictory rumours and something's got to give.

Whichever branding Barts does eventually receive, and whatever its final specifications and performance may be, there's one thing all speculation agrees with - it will release sometime between October 18th and October 25th, with an AMD event scheduled for October 12th. Considering these dates are not much more than a month away, we will surely find out the final and confirmed branding in the coming days/weeks.
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I doubt that the HD 6x00 stream processors will occupy a larger area compared to Cypress, Cypress has a 4+1 design, removing 2 small stream processors and replace them with one fat processor will not make a significat change in die size area, so means that they should use a similar die area, and if its true that there's tweaks to keep the execution area busier, the power consumption will go up.
 
I'm looking forward to upgrading my 4870x2 which has provided an excellent lifetime of service, to the 6000 series. So if I'm reading this correctly, the Antilles is going to the 2-GPU 1-Card top-of-the-line, much like my current 4870x2 or the 5970. I wonder if it will be more like the 5970 where its really more 2x 5850s than 5870s? If that's the case, I'll pass. T

he Cayman is going to be the 5870-like piece - does anyone know anything about what new tech/performance its going to wield? For instance, is it going to be a 2gb option by default or are there going to be several versions with differing about of RAM and connectors like the 2gb and EyeFinity 6 variants of the 5000 series?

Barts, will be the 5700-like "next step down", price for performance card group, like the 5770 or perhaps 5830? I hope they price it and ensure it outperforms a GTX 460 and 460 SLI when CrossFired. Right now for the price, that seems to be the best card around, especially SLI'd.

I hope the 6000 series will be a big leap ahead of the Fermi cards and that they won't hold out the new technology (latest DirectX stuff, OpenGL etc... ) for the 7 series on the new smaller fabrication process. I've been really pleased with AMD's attitude towards Linux and Open Source, as well as their powerful but economical hardware, so I'd like to buy from them again when the time comes. Cayman sounds like what I'll be looking toward... is there any indication that 6000 series in 2-card Crossfire will scale better than older ones? If I am correct, at current SLI does better in this regard than Crossfire, but I can't remember if this is only for 3 and 4 card setups or not.
 
blastingcap said:
Hey can you guys take the flame wars somewhere else please?

Anyway, the SWE post I didn't screenshot before they took it down, but luckily VRZone summarized it in time: http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-radeon-hd-6850-on-october-18th-is-barts-pro-/9861.html

In case vr-zone ALSO takes it down, I've copied the vr-zone article here (btw vr-zone is right, SWE only said media embargo lifts on Oct. 18 so it's not necessarily the launch day for the HD5750 replacement; my bad!):

Swedish website Sweclockers claim to have to scoop on Radeon HD 6850's release date and specifications. A series of previous rumours staded that Barts may be branded as Radeon HD 6800 instead of HD 6700 - a rumour that was received with much skepticism. Sweclockers are now reigniting the same rumour by reporting Barts Pro may end up branded as Radeon HD 6850. The media embargo reportedly ends on 18th October, though a wide availability date is not given.

The specifications, at first sight, appear similar to a Radeon HD 5830, with 1120 SP and 4 GHz 256-bit GDDR5. The clock speed is listed as 72x MHz. On paper, one might wonder why on earth AMD would brand a product seemingly inferior to a HD 5830 as HD 6850? Assuming these rumours have any truth, a radical VLIW-4 / 4D redesign in AMD's shader structure could see even a 1120 SP product outperform the 1600 SP Cypress. Of course, these 1120 SP will occupy a larger area and consume more power.

Meanwhile, a large part of the rumour mill continues to believe Barts will be branded as HD 6700, Cayman as HD 6800 and Antilles as HD 6900, and these just make most sense. The "Barts Pro is 1120SP" specification also disagree with the leaked slide stating Barts Pro as 800 SP. Clearly, there's a lot of uncertainty and misinformation here, with contradictory rumours and something's got to give.

Whichever branding Barts does eventually receive, and whatever its final specifications and performance may be, there's one thing all speculation agrees with - it will release sometime between October 18th and October 25th, with an AMD event scheduled for October 12th. Considering these dates are not much more than a month away, we will surely find out the final and confirmed branding in the coming days/weeks.
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Given the amount of contradictory numbers and rumors, I'm going to give ATI the benefit of the doubt and assume that Barts will be a 67xx part. ATI has been pretty consistent and solid with their naming, I don't see them screwing that up. To that end, I wouldn't be surprised if the rumor that Barts is going to be called a 68xx part is simply misinformation.

Unless Barts ends up being the 68xx part and Cayman is the 67xx part, and the leaked Barts specs are actually for Cayman. Given the Northern Island/Southern Island mixup, it wouldn't be all that surprising to find out that the code names got reversed somewhere along the way as well.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
ahahha ok whatever you go a head and try to "school" me in teh economics...lol you cannot even understand basic competition and the results on pricing of [insert product here]......and reading comprehension you need because I was referring to this specific instance were Nvidia was 7+ months late with the competition..........
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Sigh, I can't believe you're that dense so I'm going to try to explain it to you slowly. You were saying it's Nvidia's fault that ATi's prices are high because they didn't provide sufficient competition. I didn't disagree. I simply said that when ATi didn't provide sufficient competition people didn't blame ATi, they still blamed Nvidia for high prices. It's just funny/amusing/hypocritical etc etc.....
 
trinibwoy said:
Sigh, I can't believe you're that dense so I'm going to try to explain it to you slowly. You were saying it's Nvidia's fault that ATi's prices are high because they didn't provide sufficient competition. I didn't disagree. I simply said that when ATi didn't provide sufficient competition people didn't blame ATi, they still blamed Nvidia for high prices. It's just funny/amusing/hypocritical etc etc.....
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chris-crocker-cries.jpg

LEAVE NVIDIA ALONE!!1!!one!!!
 
trinibwoy said:
Sigh, I can't believe you're that dense so I'm going to try to explain it to you slowly. You were saying it's Nvidia's fault that ATi's prices are high because they didn't provide sufficient competition. I didn't disagree. I simply said that when ATi didn't provide sufficient competition people didn't blame ATi, they still blamed Nvidia for high prices. It's just funny/amusing/hypocritical etc etc.....
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let me explain it to you, I was not referring to any other incident except for the comment you originally posted which you complained about nvidia getting blamed,

way to blow it up there bub................(still waiting for that economics edumatcation joo iz supposeded tu be gibing me)

And as I recall, people did blame ATi for not having product out in a timely mannor when they have been behind in the past and they rightfully deserved it.
 
You people are amusing. and people might be a bit generous.
I'll be grabbing whichever $200 card is fastest on the day sandy bridge is released, the name really doesn't matter. 6770, 6850, or whatever nvid has to compete with at the time. The price and performance is more important than the name.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
let me explain it to you, I was not referring to any other incident except for the comment you originally posted which you complained about nvidia getting blamed,

way to blow it up there bub................(still waiting for that economics edumatcation joo iz supposeded tu be gibing me)

And as I recall, people did blame ATi for not having product out in a timely mannor when they have been behind in the past and they rightfully deserved it.
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But that was not the argument put in place. I'm not going to comment on the "People blamed Nvidia for keeping prices high even when ATI had nothing to offer in the way of competition" statement, because I don't honestly remember that.

However, your initial statement was irrelevant to the main point of trinibwoy's post. His statement was that nVidia always takes the blame for high prices. When nVidia has no product to the market, it's their fault. And when ATI cannot compete with nVidia's offering, it's still nVidia's fault for keeping prices high. That is a brutal dichotomy - one that (again) I am not commenting on as I'm not sure I believe it.

Your initial post completely disregarded trinibwoy's point that the burden is placed upon Nvidia for pricing in both "performance crown" cycles; and quoted some basic economic facts that are, unfortunately, completely un-related to the topic at hand.

Sorry, but your reading comprehension did fail... I don't think you need economics lessons at all - but your initial post certainly did not address the main subject of the post you were replying to...
 
^lol did you not read my reply where I laid out the specifics? I correctly stated that in this instance, Nvidia IS to blame providing a direct reference to this product cycle (7+months late). When ATI was late with the 2900 series, they were directly to blame for high prices due to lack of competition for quite some time.....essentially from the 1900 series to the 3800 seriess Ati was not a competitor and Nvidia was able to keep the prices high for a very long time....
 
trinibwoy said:
Yet when it was ATi floundering people still blamed Nvidia for high prices. So in essence it doesn't matter who's winning, high prices will always be Nvidia's fault. You guys are funny.... :)
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AMD can not afford to lower prices, they are flat broke. I think they are willing to accept a small portion of the video card market in exchange for higher profit per card. Much like Matrox I guess.
 
Hey let's take up an entire page and a half of a thread just to tell someone how stupid they are! I'm in!
 
PRIME1 said:
AMD can not afford to lower prices, they are flat broke. I think they are willing to accept a small portion of the video card market in exchange for higher profit per card. Much like Matrox I guess.
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AMD's cards are likely cheaper to make than Nvidia's thanks to the much, much smaller die. AMD can afford to lower prices, Nvidia can't.

As long as AMD is still making a profit on the cards sold, they'll be fine.
 
PRIME1 said:
AMD can not afford to lower prices, they are flat broke. I think they are willing to accept a small portion of the video card market in exchange for higher profit per card. Much like Matrox I guess.
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And look how well that worked out for them.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
I correctly stated that in this instance, Nvidia IS to blame providing a direct reference to this product cycle (7+months late). When ATI was late with the 2900 series, they were directly to blame for high prices due to lack of competition for quite some time.....essentially from the 1900 series to the 3800 seriess Ati was not a competitor and Nvidia was able to keep the prices high for a very long time....
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Your reasoning sucks, a LOT.

It would be correct to say that Nvidia being late had an influence on the prices staying high. I would be OK with saying it had a very big influence on it. But to claim they were directly to blame is just stupid. ATI and their partners control pricing of ATI videocards, not Nvidia. You don't need to take an economics course to understand that.
 
needmorecarnitine said:
Your reasoning sucks, a LOT.

It would be correct to say that Nvidia being late had an influence on the prices staying high. I would be OK with saying it had a very big influence on it. But to claim they were directly to blame is just stupid. ATI and their partners control pricing of ATI videocards, not Nvidia. You don't need to take an economics course to understand that.
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AMD has no competition in gaming, price stays high for a year until next line is out.
AMD has competition in the professional market,(Nvidia owns them) prices stay low.
AMD has competition in CPU market (Intel just pounds them currently), their cpu stays low in price.
if AMD has a good competitive product they will charge good money for it.
any company is there for profit and shareholders wont be happy it not.

ATI was always behind Nvidia and when they wasnt, they sucked at marketing.
same goes for AMD, they really need to hire better people there.
Then again, who wanna work there if they suck at marketing?

The new CEO and the company has turned around a little but not enough.
 
good points but none of that disputes the fact that ATi and their partners control pricing of their own products.
 
PRIME1 said:
AMD can not afford to lower prices, they are flat broke. I think they are willing to accept a small portion of the video card market in exchange for higher profit per card. Much like Matrox I guess.
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That's not how it works. The market system will determine the price companies can set unless its a monopoly.
 
You should prolly read a little bit about oligopolies and game theory. But I'll get you started- nvidia and ati calls the shots when it comes to pricing.
 
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