First Look At Windows 8.1

Terminus said:
Which way are you going? To Linux? To Android? To Mac/iOS ?

They are *all* changing.

And if you say Windows 7.... that is a Microsoft product and I still make money off desktop apps. I just make more money selling mobile apps.

Get a clue.
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Hahahaha! I like your little addendum for Windows 7, which is necessary because it's clearly superior! And I have just received my clue, it told me that only Ubuntu is truly changing and that other Linux distros such as Debian are still fundamentally the same and will remain so given their philosophy.

Next. :cool:
 
Am I the only one who really misses the look of Windows 7? The look of Windows 8 reminds me of 3.1.

Why not give me the option to turn Aero on or off? What is the benefit of having a bleeding edge system if the graphics look like crap?
 
kdw1975 said:
I don't want to have to use my keyboard all the time. I want to use my mouse.
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Use the Power Menu or access these things from File Explorer. A lot of complaints I hear about these things are mitigated this way and I guess the issue is they the Power Menu is hidden but once you know it's there its just as fast and easy as having the links in the Start Menu.
 
It seems like many of the Windows 8 supporters are just trying to say that Windows 8 is as good as Windows 7. It is supposed to be a lot better in order to justify the cost and time of upgrading.
 
I don't know why but I hate the word "Apps".

it just bothers me.
 
Sifelwivel said:
Oh, boy! I can have real, running apps side by side! What's that as well? I can also change the size of the apps? That is revolutionary. :rolleyes:
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There are some cool aspects to this. Being able to open up an attachment in an email and having the UI automatically open the attachment side by side is neat.
 
Terminus said:
3) iOS and MacOS X are indeed fused together. Have you even used Mountain Lion? Do you know what the Launchpad is? Do you know where that code came from?
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Except you don't have to use Launchpad(I never do) or any of the iOS features in Mountain Lion, you get a choice. :)
 
kdw1975 said:
It seems like many of the Windows 8 supporters are just trying to say that Windows 8 is as good as Windows 7. It is supposed to be a lot better in order to justify the cost and time of upgrading.
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It is a lot better in many ways but that depends on how its used. On tablets, which I use, 8 is vastly superior. The desktop experience isn't that different but that's a much more mature UI, and obviously by all of the discussion over Windows 8 it's EXREMELY hard to make any kind of changes to it without lots of people complaining or wanting to fall back.
 
kdw1975 said:
It seems like many of the Windows 8 supporters are just trying to say that Windows 8 is as good as Windows 7. It is supposed to be a lot better in order to justify the cost and time of upgrading.
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I wouldn't tell a desktop based non-touch user to upgrade from Windows 7. However, if you're buying a new PC with touch or not I'd tell them to stick with Windows 8 instead of downgrading to 7.
 
Holy fuck, the entire video is the improvements they've done to Metro UI. They've ignored complaints and just tried to make Metro UI better.

IDIOTS!
 
Metrocall said:
Except you don't have to use Launchpad(I never do) or any of the iOS features in Mountain Lion, you get a choice. :)
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The Start Screen acts as a notification hub though. As Metro matures with Windows and more apps, I think more and more people are going to want to use it as way of getting information. And I think that's what's throwing a lot of people off as the Start Menu was simply static links. Ultimately the Start Screen is vastly more useful but work still needs to be done to integrate it into the desktop. 8.1 does a lot it seems and obviously won't satisfy everyone but some of the issues look to be addressed.
 
Ashbringer said:
Holy fuck, the entire video is the improvements they've done to Metro UI. They've ignored complaints and just tried to make Metro UI better.

IDIOTS!
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LOL they showcased one video highlighting new improvements in 8.1 that doesn't mean that's all that's changed :rolleyes:

Truthfully i blame Microsoft for this it seems people really are that stupid. :eek::(
 
heatlesssun said:
It is a lot better in many ways but that depends on how its used. On tablets, which I use, 8 is vastly superior. The desktop experience isn't that different but that's a much more mature UI, and obviously by all of the discussion over Windows 8 it's EXREMELY hard to make any kind of changes to it without lots of people complaining or wanting to fall back.
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I actually like change when it improves my experience. You can't really talk about tablets because Windows is being marketed for the desktop. And from everything I have read my optimism about Windows 8 has turned to disappointment. I really, really want to like it. MS just hasn't made it easy. I spend 99% of my time using Creative Suite and playing games. I have seen nothing that makes think this will improve my experience, but I am very open to anything new and happy to learn something better.
 
PEOPLE.... it's Start BUTTON.... not Start MENU.

The Start Menu will be a popup similar to the tile UI but with the desktop still visible but dimmed back.
 
kdw1975 said:
You can't really talk about tablets because Windows is being marketed for the desktop.
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Windows 8 is being marketed as a hybrid, something that works on desktops and tablets. For me it works well in this regard, the desktop essentially works the same as 7 and is nearly 100% app compatible, I have no issues with using keyboards and mice on a conventional desktop without touch screens and I can use touch apps on my tablets and they work pretty much like they do on an iPad or Android device.

The debate over Windows 8 is largely philosophical as some believe that combing a touch tablet UI with a keyboard and mouse UI isn't workable. There are some issues with it but since I and many others work with it everyday without major issues I simply believe the hybrid approach is very workable and even desirable.

kdw1975 said:
And from everything I have read my optimism about Windows 8 has turned to disappointment. I really, really want to like it. MS just hasn't made it easy. I spend 99% of my time using Creative Suite and playing games. I have seen nothing that makes think this will improve my experience, but I am very open to anything new and happy to learn something better.
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And solely on the desktop I've said plenty of times that Windows 8 doesn't have a ton day to day improvements, though 8.1 does add some interesting elements. The Search, which doesn't seem to have gotten a lot of attention in this thread, that looks to be VERY cool even on a desktop. I'd need to see it in person but this is the kind of thing that plenty of desktop users will like, one place of all your searches with apps to extended it.
 
kdw1975 said:
I think he is pointing out that they have tried to improve the Start Screen which isn't even useful in the first place. They need to be focused on improving other things, such as usability.
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If one is always trying to avoid the Start Screen then sure, it's not useful. I have ton of live tiles on mine though. It's amazing how quickly and how much info I get from Start Screens these days. There's a lot of work to be done here but the power and potential of the Start Screen for delivering information is enormous.
 
The growing popularity in tablets is why windows 8 is what it is. Lot's of corporation needed windows 8 because lots of their Senior managements are fools when it comes to technology so they love ipads and since they're senior management we can't just ignore them. So we had to bend over backwards for them and added Citrix to our infrastructure to accommodate these people. With windows 8 we can actually deploy a safe secure product that we don't have to worry about.

There's a lot more to this then what i said i just feel like typing it all out.
 
kdw1975 said:
Am I the only one who really misses the look of Windows 7? The look of Windows 8 reminds me of 3.1.

Why not give me the option to turn Aero on or off? What is the benefit of having a bleeding edge system if the graphics look like crap?
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I agree with you.
And for that reason I have not upgraded.
I like organic feel of Aero, the half assed Aero theme built into 8 is garbage. I do not like harsh edges and the primary pastel colors of 8. I'll give it more time and hopefully a 3rd party will implement a nice OS-wide wrapper for us luddites...
 
Modboxx said:
The growing popularity in tablets is why windows 8 is what it is. Lot's of corporation needed windows 8 because lots of their Senior managements are fools when it comes to technology so they love ipads and since they're senior management we can't just ignore them. So we had to bend over backwards for them and added Citrix to our infrastructure to accommodate these people. With windows 8 we can actually deploy a safe secure product that we don't have to worry about.

There's a lot more to this then what i said i just feel like typing it all out.
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I don't see why people love tablets. You still have to lug around a laptop since most of the tablets, such as the iPad, only run apps. The surface pro looks fantastic. For most tasks on the go I use my iPhone. The iPad has too many cons. It is as bulky as a laptop and only has the functionality of the iPhone. I personally don't even use my laptop very often. It is mainly for vacation. During day to day life I am always within a few feet of a desktop.
 
Modboxx said:
The growing popularity in tablets is why windows 8 is what it is. Lot's of corporation needed windows 8 because lots of their Senior managements are fools when it comes to technology so they love ipads and since they're senior management we can't just ignore them. So we had to bend over backwards for them and added Citrix to our infrastructure to accommodate these people. With windows 8 we can actually deploy a safe secure product that we don't have to worry about.

There's a lot more to this then what i said i just feel like typing it all out.
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Exactly. Some say that Microsoft is lost but honestly I think they are getting it quite well but the execution and implantation are off quite a bit. The point of Windows has always been a relatively simple to use, general purpose OS that supports tons of different hardware and without question tablets are becoming a large part of the computing device ecosystem. Windows can't be general purpose and not work with tablets in today's world.

I get that people think tablets and desktops are two completely different and distinct things used in distinct ways but I'm not so sure about that. Both are used to surf the web, read email, read content, play music, movies, games etc. Yes, PCs are used for higher productivity functions that tablets aren't probably going to replace much in the near future, but with the overlap of things that tablets and desktops do, the idea that the two are completely different doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 
try remote support for win 8 user without start menu or control panel it takes 5 extra minutes to do what was 3 mouse clicks. drives us nuts
 
So far in 8.1 I seen no desktop theme improvements. The desktop in windows 8 is really limited in themes. All you can change is the taskbar, window borders, and desktop background color. And I don't see anything in 8.1 improving on that.
 
jroe52 said:
try remote support for win 8 user without start menu or control panel it takes 5 extra minutes to do what was 3 mouse clicks. drives us nuts
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Like what?

I question your knowledge :rolleyes: winkey + R and type control
 
kdw1975 said:
I don't see why people love tablets. You still have to lug around a laptop since most of the tablets, such as the iPad, only run apps.
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But a lot of people can make do perfectly fine with something like an iPad and keyboard accessory, I see this all of the time now out in public and a fewer laptops being dragged around.

kdw1975 said:
The surface pro looks fantastic. For most tasks on the go I use my iPhone. The iPad has too many cons. It is as bulky as a laptop and only has the functionality of the iPhone. I personally don't even use my laptop very often. It is mainly for vacation. During day to day life I am always within a few feet of a desktop.
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The iPad is a lot less bulky than the average cheap laptop and gets much better battery life. I do think that a big part of Windows 8's success will be contingent on hybrid devices that are as light and thin as iPads as standalone tablets and a productive and capable as the average laptop with docked to a keyboard.
 
PornoSatan said:
There seems to be far more controversy over this version of Windows than any other in the history of Windows, so I'm pretty sure his opinion is pretty representative of a large portion.
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Well IIRC, Windows XP was hated more or the same amount at least. But you know how memories are. I won't argue a large portion, my point is that it's not the majority. Then you gotta take in the fact that a lot of those in the nay group just don't like the drastic change period.
 
kdw1975 said:
I don't see why people love tablets. You still have to lug around a laptop since most of the tablets, such as the iPad, only run apps. The surface pro looks fantastic. For most tasks on the go I use my iPhone. The iPad has too many cons. It is as bulky as a laptop and only has the functionality of the iPhone. I personally don't even use my laptop very often. It is mainly for vacation. During day to day life I am always within a few feet of a desktop.
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Well with Xenapp you can actually run windows apps on an ipad something along the line of APP-V and or just giving them access to a RDP session.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 8 is being marketed as a hybrid, something that works on desktops and tablets. For me it works well in this regard, the desktop essentially works the same as 7 and is nearly 100% app compatible, I have no issues with using keyboards and mice on a conventional desktop without touch screens and I can use touch apps on my tablets and they work pretty much like they do on an iPad or Android device.

The debate over Windows 8 is largely philosophical as some believe that combing a touch tablet UI with a keyboard and mouse UI isn't workable. There are some issues with it but since I and many others work with it everyday without major issues I simply believe the hybrid approach is very workable and even desirable.



And solely on the desktop I've said plenty of times that Windows 8 doesn't have a ton day to day improvements, though 8.1 does add some interesting elements. The Search, which doesn't seem to have gotten a lot of attention in this thread, that looks to be VERY cool even on a desktop. I'd need to see it in person but this is the kind of thing that plenty of desktop users will like, one place of all your searches with apps to extended it.
Click to expand...

If they are marketing it as a hybrid, then their marketing department needs to be fired. I have yet to see any real marketing that shows Win 8 operating as a hybrid. I see tons of stuff showcasing it on tablets. The marketing I have seen shows it off as a great tablet os that just happens to be shoved on a desktop.

kdw1975 said:
I don't see why people love tablets. You still have to lug around a laptop since most of the tablets, such as the iPad, only run apps. The surface pro looks fantastic. For most tasks on the go I use my iPhone. The iPad has too many cons. It is as bulky as a laptop and only has the functionality of the iPhone. I personally don't even use my laptop very often. It is mainly for vacation. During day to day life I am always within a few feet of a desktop.
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Honestly as the owner of several tablets, I no longer find the allure in them either. It just ends up being more crap to haul around. Outside your very basic users who aren't creating content and don't need the power of a laptop, they are largely useless.

If I want to create content with a tablet I need a mouse, the keyboard attachment if applicable and even then the screen size leaves much to be desired. So by the time I am hauling all that around I may as well of bought a laptop. Couple the fact that there is just a boatload of stuff that my laptop can do that no tablet on the market can, and the tablet quickly became a toy for the kids. Surface pro has a chance of expanding the market of those whom tablets are useful too. However at its price point and again the limitation of still needing a keyboard and mouse for productive tasks, you might as well buy a laptop that is just going to run circles around it.

Tablets are fantastic for very specific demographics. Basic users who only really do email and web, Artists to a limited degree and as learning tools/entertainment devices. Now those are quite large markets, don't misunderstand me. However my point is that they just cannot replace a laptop much less a desktop. Everyone else however is going to need either a laptop or desktop which encompasses most of the corporate/small business world. This is one of the many reasons why I am utterly opposed to attempting to use a "one size fits all" OS for two very different worlds.
 
Wierdo said:
Exactly, I mean is it still a pain to find the equivalent of a control panel, quick shutdown/restart, printers/devices, windows explorer etc.
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Win+I provides everything you need.

---

Also, Metro is nice. Star screen is nice. The ONLY useful option is the lack of ability to pin settings. Now that is huge.
 
XamediX said:
I think you need to understand that you are not representative of their userbase. We all know you personally don't like along with the other vocal minority. But trolling every Win8 thread to fight with everyone about your preferences isn't the same thing as this "movement" you described above. Just suck it up and find a way to deal with it, or don't. Windows 7 is awesome still and will be around for awhile.
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Vocal minority? :rolleyes:

People vote with their wallets, and on the sales count Win 8 is a abysmal failure; even with all the prefab machines forcing it on the big box shoppers.

They took the functional start menu, blew it up to consume your entire screen, and filled it with useless junk, then made it a time consuming expedition to customize. It imposes on your productivity real estate while having 0 advantage over the previous design.

The unpleasantly enormous icons are great if it's a touch screen so you don't accidentally poke the wrong thing, but how many people would use a touch screen on a desktop? Even if you can find that 1 person that does, he probably looks like a hunchback as a result of the abhorrent egronomics of touch screening on a desktop monitor.

It's a shame really, because the underlying OS seems to run extremely well.
 
DF-1 said:
I don't know why but I hate the word "Apps".

it just bothers me.
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This. The term pisses me off, and it irritates my wife, too.

Now, I actually like Windows 8, and I find the start screen fairly intuitive (although it gets annoying looking for the control panel options), but I think they need to make some enhancements.

1. Allow easy, quick switching from the Metro Application to the desktop application. The fact that they didn't do that boggles my mind.

2. Bring back the fucking X in the corner for Metro Applications. I don't want to play tug of war to close a program.

3. Bring back the start button, but instead of it just acting like a "Windows" key, have a mixed start menu/start screen mode that only takes up about a quarter of the screen, but has the same features as the start menu/start screen. Meet the complainers half way. For multi screen setups, I like the idea posted of having it pop up on one monitor only.

4. Fix gestures. I have a multi touch touchpad on my Windows 8 laptop, and it does some weird shit sometimes. Maybe a clearer description as to what does what, and allowing me to turn off individual gestures.

There's other little things they could do, but these are the important ones. Maybe allowing folders in the start screen, and a dedicated "Control Panel/Shutdown" button on there somewhere, or something.
 
XamediX said:
Well IIRC, Windows XP was hated more or the same amount at least. But you know how memories are. I won't argue a large portion, my point is that it's not the majority. Then you gotta take in the fact that a lot of those in the nay group just don't like the drastic change period.
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Windows ME, Windows Vista, Windows 98...

A lot of drama all around.
 
kdw1975 said:
I don't see why people love tablets. You still have to lug around a laptop since most of the tablets, such as the iPad, only run apps. The surface pro looks fantastic. For most tasks on the go I use my iPhone. The iPad has too many cons. It is as bulky as a laptop and only has the functionality of the iPhone. I personally don't even use my laptop very often. It is mainly for vacation. During day to day life I am always within a few feet of a desktop.
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I have a Nexus 7, and it's pretty much just for web browsing, emails and a few other things. I really wanted a 10 inch tablet for some time, but I really can't justify it. A cheap laptop can do the same things better.
 
Get over the fucking start button!

I hated Win8 until I actually used it. It is a great OS!
 
NKDietrich said:
Grandma has reason to be upset about Start Menu being gone. We don't.
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So do I.T. Managers and decision makers. Speak for yourself. Microsoft's iPad envy and desire to make a 30% cut on every metro app sold is not everyone else's burden to pay for in retraining costs.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
If they are marketing it as a hybrid, then their marketing department needs to be fired. I have yet to see any real marketing that shows Win 8 operating as a hybrid. I see tons of stuff showcasing it on tablets. The marketing I have seen shows it off as a great tablet os that just happens to be shoved on a desktop.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv971t0elyM. They show a couple of real hybrid devices convert. They have show an abridged version of this on TV, I've seen it a couple of times. I admit that this is something Microsoft needs to stress more but it's not like they haven't.

Dekoth-E- said:
Honestly as the owner of several tablets, I no longer find the allure in them either. It just ends up being more crap to haul around. Outside your very basic users who aren't creating content and don't need the power of a laptop, they are largely useless.
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I use mine all of the time, even when I'm sitting in front of a desktop.

Dekoth-E- said:
If I want to create content with a tablet I need a mouse, the keyboard attachment if applicable and even then the screen size leaves much to be desired. So by the time I am hauling all that around I may as well of bought a laptop. Couple the fact that there is just a boatload of stuff that my laptop can do that no tablet on the market can, and the tablet quickly became a toy for the kids. Surface pro has a chance of expanding the market of those whom tablets are useful too. However at its price point and again the limitation of still needing a keyboard and mouse for productive tasks, you might as well buy a laptop that is just going to run circles around it.


Tablets are fantastic for very specific demographics. Basic users who only really do email and web, Artists to a limited degree and as learning tools/entertainment devices. Now those are quite large markets, don't misunderstand me. However my point is that they just cannot replace a laptop much less a desktop. Everyone else however is going to need either a laptop or desktop which encompasses most of the corporate/small business world. This is one of the many reasons why I am utterly opposed to attempting to use a "one size fits all" OS for two very different worlds.
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I use a digital pen a lot with my tablets, so a laptop or desktop doesn't really replace that. And a laptop isn't something you just pick up like a magazine and take it around the house or office. There is a consistent argument from Windows 8 opponents that laptops are faster for the same price and while that's true they simply aren't as mobile and top end performance isn't what everyone needs, mobility is often more important. And the beauty of a Windows 8 hybrid is that it can be more mobile when needed and more like a laptop when needed. With Haswell and Bay Trail hopefully the performance and battery life and prices on these devices will improve.
 
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