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First HTPC Buy, Quick Checkoff?

F

FrostBite

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
1,086
My wife has been watching a lot more movies on her old computer (P4 2.4, 6600GT, 2 gig ddr1 ram, etc...), and it just can't handle 1080p. I want to surprise her with a new and little (mATX) computer so we can better watch movies together. She doesn't game so I was thinking of the following:
  1. ASUS M3A78-EM @ $78.99 -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131324
  2. AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz @ $59.99 -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103300
  3. Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s @ $79.99 -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319

I already have the RAM, PSU, optical, and case. The above is $208.97 and while I want quality parts, I don't want to get her the latest and greatest simply because she won't really use it. The hard drive is much larger than needs to be in case I get a Hamprage for recording. The only thing that troubles me is the intergrated video on the motherboard - will it be able to run 1080p? Any other thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated, and I'm sure the wife will appreciate it too :p
 
I just built a similar system, check my sig. I too went with the nvidia chip as CrimandEvil recommends. it's a step up from the 780 and future proofs a bit.

your call on the proc, i went with the kuma.
 
Good to know, definately switching to that motherboard.

Maybe someone can help me with a tuner card too. We'll be watching OTA and doing some researching, it looks like the best tuner for me is the "Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600" (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116007). As far as I can tell:
  1. Two tuners: I can record one OTA show while watching another OTA show
  2. Comes with a remote and IR sensor
  3. Windows Vista Media Center compatible
Could anyone recommend me something else or would this be a good choice?
 
If I am reading this right it may have two tuners, however one is just for regular OTA which is soon to be gone (i.e. DTV transistion) while the other is for cable OR DTV, but not both at the same time. I am going with the Hauppauge 2250 Dual TV Tuner. This one will allow you to record two shows, or record one while watching another. They have two versions of this. The one I posted here without a remote, or this one with a remote. The tuner allows you to record shows with only one antenna as it splits the feed. I currently do not have the 2250 but will shortly, as such I cannot comment much on how good or bad of a product it is. It seems to be regularly mentioned in these forums however so that is a good indication it is a decent product IMO.
 
lt_shiro said:
What is the reasoning behind the 8200 board over the 780g?
Click to expand...

Main difference is the nvidia 8200 supports lossless 7.1 over hdmi. The only significant difference between the M3N78-VM and -EM is the shader speed is higher on the latter, and includes firewire on the latter. Oh, and price.
 
7750 Kuma vs X2 4850e was a tough one. I searched for reviews, and while I would love low power consumption the power difference is just very large. I am adding a Scythe Ninja Mini and 120mm fans to help out the airflow so hopefully that will help with the noise. One thing that really pulled me over is that I occasionally run VM's on my computer. Offloading it to my wife's via remote control really would be nice for me.

Oh, I thought OTA was DTV, just switching from analog to digital but still Over The Air. The 2250 Dual TV Tuner does look like it'll fit me nicely.

Here's what my order looks like. If ya'll don't mind taking a final glance, I'd love some comments!
Case: ANTEC NSK2480, $101
Motherboard: ASUS M3N78-VM, $72
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition, $60
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA, $80
Tuner: HAUPPAUGE wintv-hvr-2250, $113
HSF: Scythe SCMNJ-1000 80mm Sleeve "NINJA MINI" CPU Cooler, $30
RAM: 2 Gig Crucial Ballistix, $0 (already have)
OS: Windows Vista Ultimate for Media Center, $0 (already have)

Total with tax, shipping, and will call cost is $ $493.04.
 
You might want to replace the fans in the NSK-2480, it's not required, and at low the antec default ones are pretty quiet but for that cpu you'll probably want to run them at medium at least and probably high to keep the cpu cool, which will be considerably more audible.

For me, that was the main reason to go with a 4850e instead of a full power cpu... I have my HTPC on all the time and I want it quiet if I'm not using it.

If power is your requirement though, Phenom 9600 Agena is $30 more in the same 95W power envelope. I just don't see the reason to have a dual-core with that much power draw.
 
Yeah, you are right. While I would love to run my files on her computer, it would be her computer and the purpose would be HTPC so the 4850e it is. How is the stock AMD HSF though? Do I really need a Scythe Ninja Mini or is the Stock HSF loud? Could I even not run the stock HSF fan and just use the side ports for airflow? This would definately save me on the HSF cost and shipping too.
 
No one seems to like this case but me, however I will post it anyway. It does not come with a PSU but as I like to pick my own PSU rather than one that comes with the case (albeit that the case you have comes with a decent one). In my case I am going modular to save some space in the case.

SILVERSTONE LC10B-E
 
I completely recommend the mini-ninja. It is cooled by the case fans, so it eliminates having a separate cpu fan, and a source of noise in your case. Keep in mind you may have to turn off cpu fan monitoring in the bios if you do not have a cpu fan connected, or it'll give you errors.

I don't think the retail heatsink is sufficient to be run fanless... but you could try, I suppose, just monitor the temps and add the fan in if it gets too hot.
 
EndersShadow said:
No one seems to like this case but me, however I will post it anyway. It does not come with a PSU but as I like to pick my own PSU rather than one that comes with the case (albeit that the case you have comes with a decent one). In my case I am going modular to save some space in the case.

SILVERSTONE LC10B-E
Click to expand...

Didn't Silverstone get the memo? 80mm fans are so last decade for HTPCs. (technically, last century AND last millennium too) :D
 
I was looking at the Silverstone for some time, but I really just like the look of the Antec a bit more. Something about that silve polished finished and black bottom trim.

As for the Scythe Ninja Mini, what configuration?
  1. Stock 2,300 RPM fan on, side case fans on
  2. Stock 2,300 RPM fan on, side case fans off
  3. Stock 2,300 RPM fan off, side case fans on
 
Logan321 said:
Didn't Silverstone get the memo? 80mm fans are so last decade for HTPCs. (technically, last century AND last millennium too) :D
Click to expand...

While I agree if you do what I am planning on doing and replace the fans with Noctuna fans (low noise) you can at least get some decent CFM going through the case. Also most HTPC use low heat components (and in my case dont have a video card) so you may not need as much airflow as you are not generating as much heat. With that said I just think the case looks sexy and can hold lots of HDD's which is why I am going with it. Also worth noting (again in my case only) all my other equipment is black so it matches and blends in better. To each their own when it comes to cases (especially since no one likes this one but me :D).
 
FrostBite said:
I was looking at the Silverstone for some time, but I really just like the look of the Antec a bit more. Something about that silve polished finished and black bottom trim.

As for the Scythe Ninja Mini, what configuration?
  1. Stock 2,300 RPM fan on, side case fans on
  2. Stock 2,300 RPM fan on, side case fans off
  3. Stock 2,300 RPM fan off, side case fans on
Click to expand...

With the Ninja Mini, don't even install the stock fan, and try with both antec fans on medium (they have a speed selection switch) to start. I think when I was running a hotter dual core I had the front fan on low and the rear fan on medium, generated less audible noise that way.
 
You want a low heat cpu. Preferrably 65w or less because you want to keep it on during your movies.
With the new gpu technology, the gpu help take the loads off your cpu. So you don't really need a powerful CPU, you need a powerful GPU. The experience I have with ATI 780g chip so far, is when you boot into windows, it automatically do the resolution for you. The display looks nice and clear. The sound is easy to find, because the driver works for both video and sound through HDMI. As for the 8200. The driver for sound is different, and you have to download it from nvidia website. The display isn't as clear, you have to tweak the settings a little.

You don't need that $100 case.
You can get a microATX motherboard, and get this. LINK
LINK

If you don't do overclocking, then you're fine, you don't need any fans other than what the case came with.
 
The APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 is alright, if you're not looking for something to blend in with other audio/video equipment, but the power supply is non-replaceable due to the length restrictions on that case... longer (ie normal) power supplies mean you can't make use of the 5.25" drive bays for DVD/Blu-ray drives.

That Rosewill R379-SM case is basically useless... I wouldn't put any trust in that 300W power supply being actually 300W. There's no info on Watts per rail or # of rails and it's not listed as a 80+ so it probably isn't. Besides which it won't support full height cards, really limiting options for tuner cards and other expansion cards.
 
yetimandaddy said:
You can get a microATX motherboard, and get this. LINK
Click to expand...

Logan321 said:
The APEVIA X-QPACK-NW-BK/420 is alright, if you're not looking for something to blend in with other audio/video equipment, but the power supply is non-replaceable due to the length restrictions on that case... longer (ie normal) power supplies mean you can't make use of the 5.25" drive bays for DVD/Blu-ray drives.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't recommend getting that Apevia X-Qpack unless you want a piece of shit PSU capable of killing hardware:
XQPack's Included 420W PSU
 
Looks like the wife didn't think highly of the HAUPPAUGE wintv-hvr-2250 since the TV can watch TV and she has no interest in recording. Other than that, order placed, and thanks again ya'll.
 
FrostBite said:
Looks like the wife didn't think highly of the HAUPPAUGE wintv-hvr-2250 since the TV can watch TV and she has no interest in recording. Other than that, order placed, and thanks again ya'll.
Click to expand...

Buy a 1600 and let her play around with it. She'll beg you to get the 2250. :)
 
EndersShadow said:
Nothing like being able to record two shows in HD to your computer...:D
Click to expand...

More like "nothing like being never missing a show cause you had to run out; nothing like never missing a show because someone called and you can't pause your show; nothing like watching your TV shows on your schedule; etc."

It's a lot more then just "recording TV."
 
shh... setting up recording TV for yourself is rewarding, but setting up flawless (ie wifeproof) recording is... a little tricky. As soon as she starts using it, it'll be the new baseline and if there's any problems, you'll know about it. Telling my GF she can just watch live TV through the TV if there's an issue doesn't go over too well. :D
 
yetimandaddy said:
Don't you have to have HD channels to record HD ?
Click to expand...

All regular stations (at least here in Indy) are already broadcasting their shows in both HD and regular analog. I dont have cable or satellite but am watching HD shows on my HDTV using just a rabbit ears.
 
Unfortunately, you need a Phenom if you want the better video processing from the nVidia 8200/8300 chipset and there's no low power Phenom chips. Going the Intel route with a nVidia 9300/9400 chipset has much lower power consumption since the 9300/9400 deliver all the video processing goodies even with the lowest end Core CPUs.

I have an X2 AMD processor in a Socket AM2 motherboard in my HTPC, and I have no good upgrade path for 7.1 PCM Audio via HDMI audio since I need a new motherboard and processor either way. :(
 
That's for ATI's boards; NV's boards don't have that same limitation.
Stereodude said:
Unfortunately, you need a Phenom if you want the better video processing from the nVidia 8200/8300 chipset and there's no low power Phenom chips. Going the Intel route with a nVidia 9300/9400 chipset has much lower power consumption since the 9300/9400 deliver all the video processing goodies even with the lowest end Core CPUs.

I have an X2 AMD processor in a Socket AM2 motherboard in my HTPC, and I have no good upgrade path for 7.1 PCM Audio via HDMI audio since I need a new motherboard and processor either way. :(
Click to expand...
 
Stereodude said:
I don't believe that's the case, but either way the 8200/8300 sucks with a low power CPU.

Missing Remote has the note, "NOTE: A Phenom is required for AMD chipsets."

8200 w/o Phenom - HD HQV 27

8300 w/ Phenom - HD HQV 90
Click to expand...

You do realise that you are comparing the scores of an 8200 series IGP to scores of an 8300 series which has a higher clock frequency. Of course it's going to do better, Phenom or not. :rolleyes:

Anyways, the important part and why I don't care all that much about HQV:
Tech Report said:
The scoring system for HD HQV is entirely too subjective for my liking, and the weighting is a little odd, but it'll have to do for now.
Click to expand...
 
CrimandEvil said:
You do realise that you are comparing the scores of an 8200 series IGP to scores of an 8300 series which has a higher clock frequency. Of course it's going to do better, Phenom or not. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

True, but for the 8200 vs 8300, there's only a difference in the shader clock speed, and it's minor.
GeForce 8200: PureVideo HD Gen3, 16 sp, Core/Shader 500/1200
GeForce 8300: PureVideo HD Gen3, 16 sp, Core/Shader 500/1500

Otherwise they're identical... only the 3d rendering portion changes from 8200 to 8300.

With the Asus boards, the only other difference is the -EM (8300) has firewire and the -VM (8200) does not.
 
45watt AMD Athlon 64 X2
3450 video will handle HD data streams.
Green WD drives are fast enough to record and play several HD data streams at the same time.

Hauppauge 950s (USB) are very nice for digital TV. Install additional ones without opening the box.
 
CrimandEvil said:
You do realise that you are comparing the scores of an 8200 series IGP to scores of an 8300 series which has a higher clock frequency. Of course it's going to do better, Phenom or not. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Hey, if you don't want to believe it and live in a cloud of ignorance that's fine, but lets leave others out of your misinformation.

The small clock speed difference between the 8200/8300 does not account for the large differences in HD HQV score. The Phenom having HT3.0 does.
 
juden666 said:
So your/they saying an 4850e/8200 isnt going to preform as well as a 4850e/780g?
Click to expand...
That I don't know. I've never looked into the 780g since it doesn't support 7.1 LPCM audio via HDMI, so it was of no interest to me.

Frankly, I would suggest combining a 9300/9400 IGP with an Intel E5200. That seems to be a better solution if you're looking for top end video processing, 7.1 PCM audio capability, and 24Hz support unless you're adding a Radeon stand alone card and running Vista (and don't care about 24Hz).

I tried a passive Radeon 4550 in my HTPC and found it doesn't work right under XP due to ATI's inability to write a decent graphics driver. It doesn't properly parse the EDID returned from the receiver. In my case that left me unable to get any audio from the card with my Pioneer Elite SC-05. There's a fix for it under Vista, but none for XP. I'm hoping the next generation of nVidia PCI-E cards will have 7.1 LPCM HDMI audio capability like their 8200/8300 & 9300/9400 chipsets.
 
You don't need the phenom II, just go Phenom 9850 - right now is $90. You're saying that a quad core can't record movies, and you need a intel duo 2 ? Hasn't the guy already bought everything for the HTPC ?
 
yetimandaddy said:
You don't need the phenom II, just go Phenom 9850 - right now is $90. You're saying that a quad core can't record movies, and you need a intel duo 2 ? Hasn't the guy already bought everything for the HTPC ?
Click to expand...

please give a link to the 9850 for $90
 
juden666 said:
So your/they saying an 4850e/8200 isnt going to preform as well as a 4850e/780g?
Click to expand...

Per the Missing Remote page, the 780G also needs a Phenom class CPU to unlock its full deinterlacing features.

Theoretically though, even a 7750 should work on an 8200/8300 based motherboard, since the requirement for unlocking full deinterlacing features for that chipset is HT 3.0.

But as for the 780G, I'm not sure if the requirements are the same or if it really does need more than 2 cores.
 
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